Jaguar S-Type

keyrow

There will most definitely be an '03 4.2 S-Type in our future (the wife is tired of her Infiniti). My dealer has not said anything about discounts for the new S-Type so that is just a rumor for now. It certainly does not make much sense to discount a new product. Sounds more like the salesman's pitch to get a customer to return than an actual fact. I am not certain what is meant by MB having "the latest technology" as the Jag's DEW98 platform is state of the art. Along with the CATS active suspension Jag lacks nothing compared to the E-Class. I have done as much research on both S-Type and E-Class as is currently possible and I do not see where the Jag suffers in any way. Distronic cruise control merely forces MB to mirror the driving habits of the driver of the lead vehicle. Do you really think this is a good thing? What happens if the lead car makes a sudden or emergency lane change? No thanks, I will trust to my own reflexes and a steady speed. Jaguar's reliability has been steadily improving over the past several years whereas MB has been suffering. I do not see where the new E-Class has ANY advantage. It is a nice car but as to "Whether you like it or not this New 2003 Mercedes Benz E-Class is King of Hill in the mid-size luxury segment by a 1,000,000 miles." NOT!

I wish you happiness with your new MB, but we will be buying the true champion.

ourjag

Distronic is just SUPER! I don't see how Distronic could make one run off the road? One does not go to sleep I would hope while Distronic is engaged. I figure some Jaguar owners are just plain jealous because Jaguar doesn't offer this advanced technology on their cars. OH WELL! The new 2003 Mercedes Benz E-Class also offers their customers the new Panoramic roof, its just marvelous darling! Eat your hearts out Jaguar S-Type owners.

lngtonge18

Honestly, a lot of people could care less about that "advanced technology". And it's pretty dumb to nail a car just because it doesn't offer it. I personally would hate to see the repair bill if Distronic broke or got damaged in an accident. The distronic cruise control is just pure laziness on the part of the driver. How hard is it to push a button to slow the car down yourself? It's just another feature to disconnect the driver further from the driving experience and I think it would lead to people paying less attention to what they are doing. Jaguar is more driver oriented so I think it makes sense to stay away from such frivolous things. The panoramic sunroof is nice, but unless they improved the design, it's not all that. I rode in a C230 and with the sunroof fully open, the wind buffeting noise was painful to my ears and obnoxiously loud.

keyrow

"The new 2003 Mercedes Benz E-Class also offers their customers the new Panoramic roof, its just marvelous darling!" How do you know? Your profile says you own a Jag not an MB.

"The new 2003 Mercedes Benz E-Class also offers their customers the new Panoramic roof, its just marvelous darling!" We don't need useless technology to enjoy driving Jaguars! Nothing is gained there.

It seems there are a couple of trolls here, and ones who enjoy looking their rose colored glasses at that! Anyway, enjoy the MB (if you ever get one). I will still take the S over the E any day for the reasons already stated.

clockmeister

Humor is not always that easy to detect online, so you need to read with a critical eye. As for Jag S vs. MB E, what is Jaguar's policy on scheduled maintenance? Maintenance would be free on the MB for three years or 50,000 miles.

-- clockmeister

whatup

Hey,

My parents just bought their 2003 S-Type 3.0 last Saturday. After reading the owner's manual, the S-Type will be available with Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) similar to Mercedes-Benz Distronic. There is a blank button on the dash (between the trunk and fuel filler release) that would otherwise activate it. By the way, ACC has been available on European XKs since 1999. So you can't really make fun of the E-Class for having it...

Is the Mercedes E-Class technically superior to the S-Type? Yes! The E-Class surpasses even the S-Class in that regard (except for ABC). I can't see how you can refute that.

But so what if the E-Class is technically superior? That's in no way putting down the S-Type. The new suspension makes for a great ride, and the advanced (!) 6-speed auto is almost transparent. But mostly, the S-Type is beautiful...it's posh and unmistakably British. And isn't that why you bought it?

Todd

P.S. I'll read the manual again to find out more about ACC.

whatup

Hey again,

I saw in the owner's manual that power folding side mirrors are optional (not in the US). Does anyone know where to get part numbers for current Jag models? Maybe they could be retrofitted...

Later,
Todd

jagboyxtype

"Maintenance would be free on the MB for three years or 50,000 miles."

Jaguar gives free shedualed maintenance on all of its models for 4-years/50,000 miles.
_________________________

I still say that while the new E-Class may have a "technologically superior" trunk-lid, that's about all that it has over the new 2003 S-TYPE in terms of being more technologically advanced. The S-TYPE is not in any way behind the times in technology - especially technology that has to do with delivering great handling and performance, and a smooth ride - things that a driver really cares about, not gimmicky items like a motorized trunk-lid. I'll take CATS over a "Distronic" cruise control system any day.
_________________________

whatup-

Sorry, you posted while I was typing so I initially missed your message. I'll search around and see if I can find out about the mirrors.

whatup

Hey,

Keyrow: When shopping with my parents, I heard $1500 discounts on 2003 S-Types. But I think they would do even better than that. That was Bergen Jaguar in Paramus, NJ.

jagboyxtype: Thanks for looking into the mirrors for me. But back to the E for one second...what about its SBC braking and Airmatic DC suspension, amongst other things? But I do agree that Distronic and ACC are unecessary...

I just want to clarify...I think the S-Type is a great car. It's not that the S-Type is behind its time, but the E seems to be ahead of the pack in terms of technology. And I'm sorry you guys now have a Mercedes fan on your hands...I drive my mom's old C220. But I'm just a car nut otherwise...

Also, is there an easy-entry feature for the 2003 S-Type? I thought when you set the wheel adjustment to AUTO, the easy-entry feature is activated. It's doesn't seem to be working in our new S. Any help?

Otherwise, our Jag has two minor problems from delivery. The auto-up feature on the passanger-side window is not working, and there's a wiring harness sticking out from under the driver's seat. Oh yeah, the car is slightly out of alignment. Is that part of the dealer-prep?

Thanks,
Todd

jagone

I hate to say this but by many of your reply's make many of you sound just like Jaguar Planted Trolls! Yes I own a 2000 Jaguar S-Type 3.0, but that hardly precludes me from appreciating other fine luxury automobiles such as the new 2003 Mercedes Benz E-Class. I have no doubt that this new Mercedes will blow the socks off the competion within the mid-size luxury sedan market segment. I also believe the new BMW 7-series is a very fine technologically advanced luxury sedan, even though so many hate it! In closing all I can add is that I love my Jaguar S-Type, but unlike most of you I'm not sick in the head over it! Sincerely, The Troll. P.S. Grow-up and Get Real!!!

jagone

What do you mean by sightly out of alignment? When my S-Type was new I had a problem with a shimmy in the front end between 60-70 mph. They the dealer rebalanced all four wheels and rotated them. I've had no further problem since, the dealer will take care of your concerns in that area!

jagone

What are you talking about Distronic Cruise Control is sorely needed today on our conjested interstate's and turnpike's. When I travel I very seldom can make use of the manual cruise control. Today manual cruise control is a worthless feature. Don't get mad because Jaguar is just plain to cheap to offer their customers the latest automotive technology. Either that or their British or American Ford engineers are not up to par with the Mercedes or BMW team's in Germany!!!

jagone

. But mostly, the S-Type is beautiful...it's posh and unmistakably British. And isn't that why you bought it?

Todd

Tood, Where do you get these silly leapers from?

I'm a born and raised American! What do I care if the car is British built! I bought it because it was and still is the most Elegant & Beautiful Mid-Size Luxury sedan in the entire universe. But can I not admire other fine automobiles such as Mercedes, Ferrari, Maserati or Audi witout being indicted for teason?

pat

Folks, let's just stick to debating the facts about the vehicles. We're not here to talk about each other, doncha know.

There is no reason to accuse folks of being less than sincere in their postings because they have a different point of view than you do.

So let's relax and enjoy the view... er, conversation, okay?

Pat
Sedans Host

keyrow

"All I can add is that I love my Jaguar S-Type, but unlike most of you I'm not sick in the head over it!" That seems a strange assumption to me. On what do you base it? Since I do not own a Jag (yet) I am not as described. I have yet to test drive either of the new vehicles but I have driven an "old" '01 S-Type and fell in love with it. My impressions of the '03 models are strictly from reading auto rags and several web sites which, I admit, is severely handicapped by the subjective opinions of the various reviewers who do seem to think that if it isn't from Germany it can't be that good. However, my priorities dictate a luxury-sport vehicle with the emphasis on luxury. One that provides a comfortable ride but can "get into it" if need be. I do not require a car to have all the latest technology, which often is gimmicky, and for which I would seldom find a need (Distronic is a prime example as is a larger sunroof). I find the S-Type exactly fits my needs. If it does not fit anyone else's that is fine, there are plenty of other manufacturers out there that will gladly accept one's money for their products. If the few gadgets the E-Class offers above the S-Type excites you, then buy it. They are just not my cup of tea. I will take the "old" technology of Jag and drive down the highway with a satisfied smile on my face. Happiness is subjective, we all seek different items. I truly wish everyone else the same happiness, especially when presented with the notorious Mercedes (and BMW) repair bills.

Let us live in Peace and Harmony with our individual decisions. Chilling with a nice glass of Simi Cabernet.

lngtonge18

Do you honestly trust a computer and radar more then your own judgement? Do you trust the computer to know what the car in front of you is doing? I'm sorry, but I would not feel too comfortable with a computer deciding what distance I should keep from the car in front of me. Distronic can only make minor changes to keep your distance. It can't account for when cars cut you off or sudden stops occur and would only lead to drivers paying less attention or getting complacent in their response, which is already a big enough problem. Congested freeways is where Distronic would get too dangerous to use, just like regular cruise. So I don't see where its usefulness comes in. It's just a new gadget to play with, but overall, not that important. When the day comes where all cars are equipped with adaptive cruise and follow a specific line in the pavement, then I could say I could trust it. I'll still fight it kicking and screaming though as it takes away from the enjoyment of driving.

jagboyxtype

I'm still looking into the mirrors for you, sorry I can't get the information to you faster. On the subject of the steering wheel moving out of your way, you are correct in that it should move if you rotate the knob to "auto". If functioning properly, it will move after you remove the key from the ignition.

"But back to the E for one second...what about its SBC braking and Airmatic DC suspension, amongst other things? But I do agree that Distronic and ACC are unecessary..."

Mercedes-Benz is using an "Airmatic" system for their suspension which uses a gas to balance out the car, etc. Lincoln and Cadillac have had air-suspensions for years though, and GMC now has it as an option on the Envoy and its variants. It is supposed to be very smooth. Countering this, Jaguar uses a Computer Active Technology Suspension (CATS) on the S-TYPE that senses what kinds of road the car is on and then adjusts the suspension to handle that road with the best composure, etc. It also tightens up when taking corners hard and making other performance maneuvers to keep the car from swaying at all and to keep the car as balanced as possible. It has received high praise from the press, and Jaguar has also continually been making improvements upon the system, I believe version IV is now being used on the 2003 S-TYPE. We have it on our 2000 S, and it works well. If you must have an air suspension though, the new XJ-Series will have this feature and it may be given to future S-TYPEs as an option or on ones without the Sport Suspension Package.

SBC braking actually seems like a good system that makes the cars stop in very short distances. I'm not sure I would really like to have just electrical wires between me and the brakes though. I'd hate to have an electrical failure and find that my brakes do not work at all. This is more advanced than what Jaguar, and any other cars have on them, but more advanced doesn't always mean better. So far it does seem like a good system though, but I want to see its record over time before I totally back it. Jaguar uses vented front and solid rear ABS disc brakes on their cars. Excellent braking distances have always been a hallmark of Jaguars, and it should be as they were the first to research, develop, and introduce Anti-Lock Brakes to cars when they used them on D-TYPEs at Le Mans - and won five times. Currently, they also use electronic brake distribution systems to equalize and distribute braking power to the brakes that would be most beneficial in stopping the car in the shortest distance.

Distronic is nothing new, as I said before, big-rig trucks have had those cruise-control systems for many years. I do not see how much better this system is over a conventional cruise-control system, as it is still the driver's responsibility to actually drive the car, and even if someone were to cut in front of a car with Distronic, the system can only apply a maximum of 25% of the car's braking power, so if the car that cuts in and slows, the Mercedes is doomed just like any other conventional cruise-control car.

I'm not trying to knock the E-Class, it is a very advanced and nice car, but I feel that much of its "advanced technology" will not really be used in real driving situations, and all of it is optional on the car, where as the S-TYPE comes standard with much of its advanced technology with an $8,000-lower starting price as well. Jaguar has been very serious about keeping its range of cars up to date with the latest and best proven technology, and the S-TYPE is no exception. And can the Mercedes say "BOOT OPEN" when you open the luggage compartment? - Nope :-)

whatup

Hey,

The neutral position on the steering wheel is off slightly to the right...no more than 5 degrees off-center. The car gradually pulls to the right when the wheel is in the correct straight position. But the car doesn't vibrate at high speeds though...it has been driven consistently between 70 and 80 MPH.

"...it's posh and unmistakably British."

Sorry, I spent last semester in South Kensington, London...I've been anglicized...

Todd

im_brentwood

Power FOlding mirrors are not available in the US.

Yes you COULD convert the car, but you would need:

Power folding mirror assemblies ($300+++ each I am sure)

Wiring Harness ($200+)

Switches...etc...

I.E. they are a cool toy, but you'd also have to order the parts from mainland europe (LHD car).

Bill

whatup

Hey,

Thanks for the mirror information, but do you have any specific prices and part numbers? I'm sure it's not going to happen, but they would be nice to have...our garage has large shelving, so folding the mirrors helps get by. But then again, we could just fold them manually...

Does anyone know how much a rear seat cover for a 2003 S-Type would cost?

Thanks

im_brentwood

I dunno. I'd try someone like Arden.

http://www.arden.de

Bill

jagone

Have you ever seen the notorious repair bills associated with a Jaguar LOL! When you do you most certainly won't be riding along down the road a smiling! Why attempt to spread falsehoods about BMW or Mercedes quality? You speak just like the proverbial person with the paper ...

im_brentwood

I'd hate to sell my Jaguar and get something unreliable like a Toyota or a Honda! =O



Bill

jagone

Funnier than all hell! Quoting Quality ratings from 5-years ago! Quit it you're making by belly hurt! LOL!

pluskin

Do you understand the concept of a long term durability survey?

akirby

Of course he comprehends. He just wants to argue. There's a name for these kinds of posters but I can't say it here. But they're ugly and they live under bridges. Just ignore him and he'll go away.

jagone

Yes I do understand the concept of a long-term durability study. The study he is citing by J.D.Powers was published in 1997 and is based on the 5-year period 1993 through 1997. So there Mr.Smartee Pants tell me how does that relate's to Jaguar's quality today here we are in the year 2002. Boy these Jaguar marketing trollski's are funnier than all, well all leapers!!!

lngtonge18

Try again. It was a long-term quality report STARTING from 1997. This means the report was done on 1997 model cars 4 years later, aka 2001. Are we laughing so hard now? Maybe someone needs to learn how to read properly before posting. I bet you feel pretty stupid about now.

akirby

jagone KNOWS the report started in 97. He's just trying to provoke an argument. He'll say whatever he thinks will provoke you the most. Replying will only encourage him.

IGNORE HIM!

im_brentwood

2 cars come to mind:

1) Dad's '97 XJ6. 81K miles. Bought it at the auction in Sept 00 with 48K on it.
mechanical Repairs to date: 1 power steering hose, 1 switch (Sport/Normal switch for tranny mode.. actually the trim piece holding it in broke). About $300 in nearly 2 years.

That's it. Needed new Pirellis and brakes when we bought it, will need Pirellis again, and just got second set of pads.

2) My '95 Vanden Plas. Bought new. 141K miles. Costs? $1,185 since it went out of warranty on repairs. (Couple hoses, tilt motor for steering column, a P/S hose, 1 can of R134a, 1 cupholder, and an oxygen sensor at 135K.

Bill

kinley

turned out only 11 Mark VIII's an hour compared to 33 Towncars and Continentals. They did have Quality Control in effect then. The S 4.2 is very likeable stylewise, but cramped rear leg room compared to a Towncar for $10,000 less, but Jag has a better "Red" color. If this was March 2000 I'd spring for an XK8, but not now.

jagone

OK! Lets say there is a remote chance that you're right about the starting point of this J.D.Powers report that you so proudly put forth. How does it relate to the quality of the Jaguar S-Type? If my memory serves me right there were no S-Types back in 1997. This is a Jaguar S-TYPE message board isn't it? BOY! You Jaguar marketing type's are a crusty lot for sure!!!

nhart1

I'm thinking of buying this car but wondered how it handles in winter driving. I live in lower Michigan and want to drive it all year round.

jagboyxtype

My father's S-TYPE is his year-round daily driver which he takes everywhere. His car is equipped with the Sport Package which came with Pirelli P-Zero tires, but even with those "summer only" tires, the car handles wet and icy roads in a superb fashion - from our experiences at least. The car has incredible traction on most any surfaces and is very confidence inspiring. Just don't expect to be plowing through three feet of snow with it and it will handle most everything else you throw at it. If the RWD S-TYPE does not fit your needs though, remember that the X-TYPE comes with the added benefit of AWD. Either car will probably fit your needs very well. Good luck and I hope this helps some!

scottc8

FWIW, I have an '00 Lincoln LS V8, mechanical near twin to the S-type, with the Sport package and AdvanceTrac stability control. I've driven it through two Colorado winters, a long daily commute on rural roads, with the stock Firestone all-season tires and have had no problems. Our club members who live in the Great Lakes area generally feel they need real snow tires. As jagboy says, you won't "break trail" in deep snow but you'll be fine otherwise. Folks in Michigan know how to drive in snow, right?

jagone

Haven't experienced that as of yet! But imagine if you take it slow and easy. The S-Type will get along just fine and dandy in winter driving. One must remember the S-Type is rear wheel drive, but it is a stout little porker at 4,000 lb's.

peter1d1

I'm curious if anyone else has had this problem. I bought a 2001 4.0 type last fall. Since the beginning when I accerate rapidly through the gears ( automatic) when the car gets to third gear and 5800 RPM the traction control faults out and you have to stop the car turn it off to reset it. 14000 miles later the dealer still has not fixed it. I have been without the car for almost 2 months and the latest attempt is to replace the wiring harness - I'm about ready to lemon law the car of my dreams!! any like issues or suggestions other than the bone yard for Prrrr ( I name all my cars )

jagone

I have a 2000 S-Type 3.0 which when purchased new in April 2000 was sticker $44,995.00 with automatic transmission standard. Now an equally equipped 2003 S-Type 3.0 is sticker $47,850.00 Noticed how they went and made an automatic transmission a $1,385.00 option on the 3.0 S-Type. Never thought I would see the day that a mid-size luxury sedan would be charging extra for an automatic transmission. OH WELL! Maybe the marketing folks at Jaguar know better than I about how too sell mid-sized luxury sedans!

jagone

The form rubber weather stripping on the inside of the driver's door has begun to crumble. Has anyone else had this problem on their S-Type?

lateralg

I believe that it's the new ZF 6HP, an incredible six speed auto that is used in the new BMW 7-series.

jagone

The S-Type remains one of the most beautiful and elegantly stunning mid-size luxury sedans out on the highway. Though Jaguar continues to deploy some very cheap looking plastics on the instrument panel and center console. Can not understand why Jaguar doesn't see fit to go that extra mile in finishing the interior. Even if it meant bumping the price up another $200-$300 per car, it would be worth it to see this fine luxury crusier's interior finished right! When spending $50,000 on a new sled I could live with another $200-$300 on the final talley.

Anyone else have any thoughts along these lines ?

keyrow

A fine interior is all that is needed to make one OUTSTANDING automobile. Perhaps Arden has had some input on the interior materials chosen Afterall, if Jaguar actually did as we suggest then Arden would not have any customers.

scottc8

OK, I paid a good deal less for my LS, but I'd have gladly paid several hundred more if it had an interior as nice as the S-Type's.:)

whatup

Hey,

Of course buyers would pay a couple hundred more dollars for a nicer interior, but carmakers no longer build to a standard, but to a predetermined cost. It's a shame, but at least they're getting much better at it.

The trim doesn't bother me that much, but there are some minor changes I would suggest.

(1) The outside temperature display: Why does is it displayed only when the climate control is on? And why not show it in the trip computer?

(2) Radio display: Again, why isn't this included in the trip computer?

Todd

jagboyxtype

I think that a lot of these are really minor complaints about the S-TYPE's interior. I mean really: Why is the outside temperature display only on when the climate control is on? Because it shares its position on the screen with the climate control screen. Why is it not shown in the trip computer? Because the trip computer is for mileage displays, etc. and again, the climate control system has its own display. Why isn't the radio display located in the trip computer readout? Because it has its own display with the radio.

Now we are also complaining about the black plastic on the center console around the climate control and radio?! Well, the XJ (2003 and the previous generation as well) and the XK and the X-TYPE all have the same kind of black plastic there, and it isn't as if the plastic breaks easily or does not function properly or that it even looks bad. People in Crown Victorias are being killed when their gas tanks explode in rear end collisions, and people in Lexuses are plagued with engine sludge and transmission problems that could become dangerous on the road, and people in BMWs have brake system recalls where the brake pedal does not work and airbag recalls where hitting bumps on the road deploys the airbags, and people in Mercedes-Benzes are plagued with quality problems that rival Jaguars of old, and you are all looking around in your beautiful S-TYPEs and finding that you dislike the wee bit of plastic on the center console and that the radio does not have a secondary display in the trip computer! Not only that, but none of those other cars or any of the S-TYPE's competators have an interior or an exterior that are even half as nice as the S-TYPE's, yet you are still complaining?! Ahhhhh! Come on people, just enjoy your cars. You are driving JAG-U-ARs here. :-) :-) :-)

kinley

keyrow

Having just ordered a new S-Type 4.2 I am delighted with it AS IS. My comment was about how to make it as close to PERFECT as is humanly possible. I do not understand why Jaguar chose the less expensive materials for a few hundred more they could have blown every other manufacturer's interiors away. Jaguar offers the "R" to satisfy the performance buyer so why not also have an "Executive" model in their line? As previously stated, when laying out ~55K another 1K would not really matter. This would make for a COMPLETE lineup: 3.0, 4.2, "R" and "E". No other manufacturer could even come close!

Since this is my once-in-a-lifetime car purchase I want that perfection so I have already contacted Arden to upgrade mine. It's just that the purchase experience would have been nicer if Jaguar had already provided this option.

whatup

Chill Jagboy...I'm not complaining, they're just suggestions.

My parents drive the S-Type, so it really doesn't affect me much anyway, but I think these minor changes would make driving it more enjoyable. I like always having the outside temp. displayed (i.e. on a Benz) and not having to glance down at the radio when it could just be displayed right in front of me. Yeah, these things are minor, but they don't detract from the car. I know the S-Type is an excellent car, but I can still suggest some improvements. No car is perfect, no matter how beautiful it may be.

Oh yeah, how much is a rear seat cover for the 2003 S-Type? Is it bundled with front covers too?

Later,
Todd

jagone

Finest Automotive Leather to be found and the beautiful Birdseye Maple wood trim, surrounded by the cheapest interior plastic's that Ford Motor Co could hoist up on Jaguar. What a let down to what could have been a truly magnificent interior. Kinda be like going to Neiman Marcus for a $200 DKNY sweater and then high tailing it over to K-mart for a $10 pair of Rustler Jeans! Ha! Ha! Ha!

pat

Some inappropriate messages have been removed.

Folks, we are here to talk about the vehicles. We are not here to snipe at each other.

Pat
Sedans Host