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Cadillac DeVille



  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    Talking about problems with a 1992 auto? 15 years old? I didn't even read all that, and I'm sure not going to discuss it.

    Dexcool does not have a problem. Modern cooling systems are semi-closed systems and are supposed to have no air in them. Under these conditions Dexcool works fine. I say semi-closed because when coolant gets hot it expands into the expansion collector, and when it cool off, coolant is pulled back into the system.

    If the system leaks and is allowed to run low on coolant and get air into the system, then Dexcool has had some problems in some vehicles. It's my understanding the problem comes from Dexcool interacting with cast iron and air, and then does sludge up.

    If the system is maintained, with full charge of Dexcool and no air in the system, there are no problems.

    Personally, I will not run my vehicles 7 years and/or 100,000 miles, or whatever the maintenance calls for, before changing my coolant. I would think 4 years and/or 50,000 would be a good time to drain the old coolant and refill with new. Serviced like this, and checking the system for leaks and is topped up - you should have no problems. After 5-7 years, you might develop leaks in the radiator and need a new one. Things wear out.
  • hotel1hotel1 Posts: 50
    1992 truck with deathcool???????????????

    GM started using "Deathcool" in 1996 !!!!!
    From found article: Dexcool is a formulated antifreeze/coolant used in over thirty-four million vehicles sold by General Motors. Used by GM since 1996 in most car and light truck models, Dexcool is manufactured and distributed by ChevronTexaco, Equilon and ChevronTexaco Global Lubricants.

    More info:
  • ladymyladyladymylady Posts: 21
    Very interesting post on the sludge corrosion problems caused by Dexcool.

    Bolivar, I only re-printed that fellow's solution for users of dexcool.

    It doesnt matter whether people are using it in a 1992 car or a 2006 car. They are all ending up with leaking coolant, needing new gaskets, water pumps, and in many cases new engines as the coolant "corrodes" whatever it touches as it runs through the engine.

    Not only are 28 "states suing GM for dexcool, but GM itself sued Dupont for dexcool. Missouri got class action status - other states have not. That says there is something seriously wrong with dexcool speaking from a legal point of view, because lawyers dont go before federal judges without the facts and a very good provable case for class actions.

    My car already had the problem at 17000 miles with piston and rings blown and replaced as well as hoses. other cars have had it at 15,000 miles. That is not normal. If you go over and read consumer complaints you will see again and again, technicians saying that have piled up corroded head gaskets - that dexcool eats them up ----

    since I'm over the 5 year warranty - I want that CRAP out of my car and to check how much damage has been done already.

    I'd rather be safe than have to put in a new engine. This car has already had 35 visits and many replacements at the dealer before 35,000 miles !!! And I dont think that's normal.

    the reports of people who took out the dexcool and went to regular green antifreeze after a good flushing - and thereafter had no problems is also very telling...and there are many of those.

    Alhough I certainly respect your knowledge, The facts on dexcool are not agreeing with you, except to say that there is a problem with dexcool eating up the plastic parts and hoses in a car with an aluminum radiator.
  • ladymyladyladymylady Posts: 21
    I've had an MG, a Thunderbird, Mazda, Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and a cadillac previously and in all of those cars, even though a woman, I have always checked the dipstick/oil and refilled/topped off antifreeze myself with regular, usually Prestone (green)antifreeze. I've been driving since I was 18.

    I have never never ever seen anything like what was shown on those caps or in the overflow from dexcool !.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    Lawyers love to sue companys.

    Class action lawsuits are gold mines for the lawyers. They make millions and millions and millions and a stupid judge gives a coupon to the consumer for reduced price to buy more of the service/item sued about.

    The other poster quoted 34 million vehicles with Dexcool. Do you see the sides of the roads littered with dead GM (and many other vehicles use Dexcool or Dexcool type coolant) cars, all with blown head gaskets, rotted hose, and leaky radiators caused by Dexcool? I don't think so.

    From my understanding, as I said, Dexcool has had some sludging problems when air is allowed into the system.

    Rotting hoses, head gasket failure, radiator leaks - these all seem to me to be design problems in these items, not something caused by the coolant running in then.

    In my new 1978 Chevy, I changed drained and refilled coolant after 2 years. In the 3rd year, the radiator leaked. The radiator repairman said "They just don't make radiators like they used to do." This would have been in about 1981. They've probably only gotten worse and worse since then....
  • zimzam1zimzam1 Posts: 13
    You know i hear it 50/50 from people. Some people swear by dexcool and other people hate it. I have personly never had a problem with it, but thanks Lady for the info because now I know what to look for incase I do start to have problems. It does make you wonder though. Should I flush out the dexcool and put in regular antifreeze. I guess the question I am asking here is will regular antifreeze hurt your Cadillac Deville? Why does it say to only use Dexcool? What will regular antifreeze do to if you change to it?
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    'Regular' antifreeze can be used in place of Dexcool. The only thing - regular antifreeze is good for only about 2 years, then needs a flush and refill.

    And - this is important - if you dump Dexcool and go to regular green antifreeze - you CANNOT go back to Dexcool and get its EXTENDED USE CAPABILITIES (5 years/100,000 miles). The green antifreeze will leave a residual that will negate the extended properties of Dexcool.
  • zimzam1zimzam1 Posts: 13
    I just picked up my new used 2002 Deville today and man is it a sweet ride. I have been a little uneasy the past few days on which Deville I should get, but I will say that I am very happy with the choice I made. It is white with the black rag top. It has a sun roof and the interior is black too. A real nice ride. I thought I was gong to miss my 1998 Deville but I have not thought of it until just now. I dont think I will ever own another kind of car as my main vehicle that i drive all the time. I have had good luck with them and its like driving a castle. So I am a happy man right now.
  • ladymyladyladymylady Posts: 21
    Congratulations ZimZam,

    Did you get a DHS?and the memory package and the back up buttons?
    I have to say,although my 2002 is not as snazzy as your white with black, I do have the sun roof and I'm happy with my new car, but I do miss my old 93....I could drive it like a
    sportscar, with this one, I'm more careful - and I do miss the turning ratio - if I wanted to make a tight turn, like a u-ey, no problem...the turning ratio on the 2002 seems wider...and am learning can't make tight u-eyes with it..I'm also going to try to find the front stand up insignia..find I'm missing that...cause it told me where the front of the car is ---now when I park in a space, I dont stop till my front wheels are hitting somethhing. LOL.
  • zimzam1zimzam1 Posts: 13
    Thanks for the congrats lady. But I just got the base Deville. I like the base Deville's a little better than the DHS & DTS. And the reason is a silly one. Its because of the digital dash board. On the DHS & DTS I noticed that the dash board had both, the dial speedometer & RPM gauge, along with the digital speedometer. I didnt like the dial speedometer & RPM gauge, I like the whole thing to be digital, which is how the base Devilles come. I guess the new Deville's, which are all called DTS's, all come with both, the dial speedometer and RPM gauge and the digital. So I hope they go back to the all digital. I know it seems silly but that is how I like my car.

    And no I didnt get the back up buttons. But there was a 2004 Deville I was looking at that I almost got but they wouldnt come down to the price I was willing to pay. But that one had the airconditioned seats. I really wanted that option, but maybe next time.

    As for the turning ratio on my new 2002 Deville, it is actually a little better than my 98 Deville. On my 98 Deville the front end was actually a little longer than the 2002 I have now. It also seems not as wide as the 98, but Im pretty sure the wheel base is listed as the same. I just think it is an all around better ride. And that is saying alot because even though my 98 had 160,000 miles on it, it still drove awesome.

    Im trying to think what your 93 Deville look liked. I will try to find one online so I can get an idea. But on your 2002 DHS your Cadillac insignia is right on the grill right? I am pretty sure on the DHS's and DTS's the insignia was put right in the front grill as opposed to the base Deville that has the insignia as a hood ornament. But just use the middle of your front end as where your insignia should be. Once you get the hang of your car I am sure you will do just fine parking it. Hopefully. hehe
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I did not have any problems with dexcool in my 98 Aurora or my 2002 Seville. The one thing that is important is to monitor the coolant levels and have any loss of coolant checked out and repaired quickly. Adding coolant without finding out the reason for the lost fluid may result in the problems that you are raving about.
  • My 1999 Cadillac is just back from the dealer after a $5.0 K cylinder head replacement job at 63,000 miles after always having been regularly maintained by a Cadillac dealer. This is a design/material/assembly problem that was built into the engine the day it left the production line. Instead of standing behind their product,Cadillac is hiding behind their warranty. Cadillac offers no relief of any kind since the car is "out of Warranty" Is there a class action lawsuit on this product deficiency that I can join. Any help will be appreciated.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    You said 'cylinder head replacement job', but I bet you mean a head gasket job.

    Nope, no class action I know of.

    Why don't you find a law firm and get one started?

    Head gasket failures are a very well known failure for Northstar engines.
  • ladymyladyladymylady Posts: 21
    Somewhere I saw an article that 28 states have lawsuits against GM concerning various problems "caused by dexcool" but here's todays
    from Detroit Press/Aftermarket News:

    E-mail the AMN editor Amy Antenora

    Ruling is Near on GM Engine Coolant: Class Action Sought over Dex-Cool
    In Wednesday, May 24, 2006 Issue, Category:OE News
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    E-mail this article

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    Posted: May 24, 2006, 9 a.m., EST

    From Detroit Free Press

    A federal judge may soon rule whether General Motors Corp. will face a national class action suit accusing GM of selling millions of vehicles with a faulty coolant.

    The suits stem from GM's use of Dex-Cool, a coolant it first introduced in its vehicles in 1995 and sold in more than 35 million cars and trucks between 1995 and 2004. According to GM, 14 federal and state lawsuits seeking class-action status have been filed against GM over a variety of engine problems linked to Dex-Cool.

    Customers have complained of problems ranging from small coolant leaks to complete radiator and engine failure. Court documents show that GM has received tens of thousands of repair requests related to Dex-Cool and engine gaskets in the affected models and considered recalls for some models.

    The company has issued several technical bulletins to its dealers about cooling-related problems in the engines, but says it prefers to handle customer complaints on a case-by-case basis.

    When GM introduced the orange-colored Dex-Cool, it said in owners manuals that Dex-Cool could last up to five years or 100,000 miles without being replaced, and later extended Dex-Cool's life to 150,000 miles. Dex-Cool uses a different set of chemicals to protect engine parts than traditional green-colored coolant, which requires more frequent replacement, and GM was the first U.S. automaker to use it.

    Attorneys for the owners say that clause means GM should repair any Dex-Cool-related problems, even if they crop up outside the engine's typical three-year or 36,000-mile engine warranty.

    "What we're looking for is to have GM step up and honor its warranty obligation," said Eric Gibbs, a San Francisco attorney and one of the lead lawyers for the owners. "There's a significant public interest in this problem, no question about that."

    GM claims that the owners manual clause was not a warranty, but a service interval. In its court filings, the automaker says Dex-Cool "has performed without problems in the vast majority of GM vehicles."

    "The recent motion to certify a class action is unfortunate," said GM spokeswoman Geri Lama, "and the situation with our customers has been grossly overstated through unsubstantiated allegations in statements which have not been proven in court and will be vigorously defended."

    Six of the federal lawsuits have been consolidated in a federal court in East St. Louis, IL, U.S. District Judge G. Patrick Murphy could rule at any time whether the cases, which have about 100 named plaintiffs, should be granted class-action status, meaning they could represent millions of former and current GM owners.

    Three similar lawsuits has been filed in Canada, while a state lawsuit in Missouri has already won class-action status, a decision GM is appealing.

    The troubles blamed on Dex-Cool range from leaking coolant to blown engines, and often include failed intake manifold gaskets, pieces that rest between the engine block and the air intake to prevent coolant and oil from leaking. Replacing a gasket usually runs about $700, but a bad gasket can cause enough damage that the engine has to be replaced.

    Mixing Dex-Cool with another coolant can cause other problems, and GM doesn't recommend using other coolants in Dex-Cool engines, although some mechanics do swap coolants.

    About 110 complaints of coolant leaks in the GM vehicles targeted by the lawsuit have been filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, according to a Free Press review. The agency rejected a call for a defect investigation in 2002, saying the problems weren't safety related and was therefore outside its purview.

    Many of the complaints say the problems appear to begin around 60,000 miles, well beyond the engine's warranty but sooner than many customers believe they should have problems with their cooling systems. A few have been reported as early as 20,000 miles.

    Mark Reynolds, a radiator repair shop owner in San Carlos, CA, says he sees one or two GM vehicles a week with Dex-Cool problems. A typical repair requires flushing the cooling system and in some cases taking the radiator apart.

    "It's a shame -- vehicles in their fourth or fifth year with this awful, gooey mud attacking the top of the radiator cap and fouling up the radiator," he said.

    GM has argued against certifying the lawsuit as a class action, noting that state courts in Michigan and California have already turned down similar lawsuits. It contends that the plaintiffs want to represent past and present owners who don't have any problems, and that they "complain of just about everything that can go wrong with a vehicle, attributing every bit of it to Dex-Cool."

    Lama said if a GM customer has a problem beyond the warranty, GM has a process for dealing with it through its dealers.

    "The first priority of General Motors and its dealers is helping our customers," Lama said.
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    Thank you very much for your post! While I recently traded my 2004 Deville for a 2006 DTS, I appreciate the fact that important information like this is posted at this site as it will be most helpful to current owners. I have been surprised that these valuable owners forums don't have more posts regarding potentially important issues relating to the overall ownership experiences and issues.
  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    Anyone seeing any deals on 2006 or 2007 DTS's with low miles on dealer lots in the midwest? I have heard there won't be as many low mileage program cars available due to rentals being limited and GM executive vehicles being kept for longer periods driving up the mileage. Not many low mileage DTS's on dealer's lots in southern Indiana. :cry:
  • scoatwscoatw Posts: 1
    My father-in-law is having a problem with his battery draining. The shop told him that it was coming from his load leveler. So the mechanic disconnected the load leveler. Dad wants to know if he puts heavy duty shocks on the car if he can keep the load levelers disconnected.
  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    Do a search on this forum. I think there was a reply earlier that talked about doing away with the special shocks on some models and replacing them with normal shocks and disabling the ride light on the dash. You might even ask your local parts store if they have ever been involved with a customer doing this. Good luck.
  • sotelosotelo Posts: 1

  • 04cad04cad Posts: 131
    I wonder if the main reason for a lawsuit involving ten year old engines is the potential lawyer fees? I wouldn't think any car maker would have much liability for engine problems on vehicles that old? Good luck anyway.
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