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Cadillac DeVille

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  • Preach on Etharmon, preach on. :-)
  • The rebates that are out are dealer cash rebates. That is why they aren't advertised. In the Chicago market it is $5,000 on STS, SLS, ETC, and Eldo. The Deville, DHS, and DTS has $2,000 dealer money. Catera has $1,500 and the Escalade has $1,000. Currently there are no Customer rebates except for the Escalades without the Rosen system. You get an extra grand off for it.
  • OK - You have raised a good point. In negotiating for my '01 DTS, I am offering to pay Invoice minus 50% of the holdback. Since I am ordering the car, the dealer will not have any flooring expense. Here is how the dealer will make out:

    50% holdback: $ 800
    Dealer cash: 2000
    Dealer flooring assistance: 650
    Total: 3450

    Now, that is before you factor in the profit in my lease return which the dealer will be able to buy at auction prices ($18,000) and sell for retail used at about $23,000.

    My sales rep. (a personal friend) couldn't stop laughing until I told him that a dealer in another city agreed to my terms. Now, he is not laughing any more.

    I think that this is a fair deal, don't you?
  • Yesterday I was doing research (reading on the Deville and the car (DHS) models have television reception as an added feature in Japan.

    This is what it says. "DHS models intended for export to Japan will offer television reception as an added feature with the navigation system. Additional equipment is involved, including an integrated TV tuner, a diversity TV antenna integrated with the backlight, an amplifier and selector for the TV antenna and an auxiliary stereo audio and video adapter." Weird, huh.
  • It's been a while since I posted, so I had a helluva backlog of posts to read. So I'll make this post brief.

    I put my '93 Allanté back in the garage after some refreshing top-down driving these past few months. My wife has been driving the DTS and won't give it up. Wimmin! At first she didn't like the car (too big) and now she can't say enough good things. Though must of her comments come to me indirectly from clients and business acquaintances. *I* still have a Lexus 430 on order for a "whenever" delivery date. But for now, I'm driving the Suburban.

    Footnote: A few weeks ago we drove to La Costa (north of San Diego) for the weekend. The car performed flawlessly (as it should) and got some long glances while driving. Even in Southern California there are not that many white DTS' on the highways. In addition, there has been no mechanical problems worth mentioning and the car has not burned one ounce of oil. Considering it is one of the first couple hundred off the assembly line, kudos KUDOS goes to Cadillac. I'm impressed.

    Demographics: Satisfied 38 year old "fart" with a wife, a "write-off" on the way and a golden retriever who wants to get intimate with my Suburban's muffler.
  • I guess that depends on the location and total allocation of DHS's. I don't have a huge allocation of DHS's. I am very heavy in DTS though. However, I have to admit I would probably laugh about as hard as your friend. I can tell you that in order for anyone to get half the holdback, it had better be a red with blue cloth interior catera. Hold back is what we use to pay for not only the floorplan, but the lights, the porters to clean up your car, the biller to handle the paperwork, the license and title clerk to make sure you get a title, the inventory manager to make sure the car came off the truck safely, and a host of others. There is a lot more to the holdback than just paying the floorplan. We don't have a floorplan at our store, does that justify selling everything below invoice? If you had 12 million tied up in a store, and your return was only $800,000 gross, how long you would keep that store open?
    As far as the dealer cash, it is only on 2000 models, not 01's. Again, I have to be honest, if you came into my store and wanted that price on an 01 DHS, ordered or not, I would shake your hand and thank you for coming in. Now, ask me how much I would sell an Eldorado for =).
  • I just went back and read what I wrote, and I'm sorry if it sounded harsh. Didn't mean for it to come out that way. Being on the other side of the desk, and having someone ask me to earn only 1.5% before paying everyone just doesn't sit right with me. I can appreciate the fact that the consumer just wants the best deal they can make, and I can understand that it was the people in this business 20 or 30 years ago that caused all of the problems we are having today. Fortunately, most of those people are gone by now. You have a new breed of salesperson that truly just wants to earn a living, not a killing. When was the last time you asked your clothing guy what invoice was? How about the plumber that comes out? Do you ask him what his hourly wage is and add $.50? How about the guy selling the furnaces? My point is that it is great to have knowledge. I don't necessarily argue with having sites such as Edmunds posting our invoice prices. In fact, I welcome it. It makes it much easier to put a deal together because you know exactly how much money we are making on each deal. All we have to agree on is what the figure is. Now, getting a trade in value on used cars is a whole other area I won't get into.

    Philly7, again, I didn't mean to come across as harsh as that sounded and I'm sorry. Jeff
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    Always enjoy your updates and input re: your own DTS and the luxo car arena at large.

    Most interesting to hear that the wife has become a bonafide fan of the Caddy (even if in a "closet-fan" sense), having previously openly not liked it. It would be interesting to know what about the car, specifically, she has taken a liking to, having now driven it for a while. Presuming she is also in her mid-late 30's, that would be interesting gender and age demographic data..."what does a 30-something women like/find attractive in the Cadillac DTS?"

    Sorry about the problem with your dog and the Suburban tail pipe. Good thing he hasn't taken to the back end of the DTS...the FOUR orifices back there would for sure confuse and frustrate the you-know-what out of 'em!

    So you are going for the LS430? I am sure sales of that car will increase over the "old" 2000 model, however IMO it still lacks its own unique character (in the looks/style dept.). Even Motor Trend says the front end looks alot like an S-Class and DTS, and the back end looks like the Acura RL (it sure damn does!). What I found most disturbing was in the photo on page 44 of that same magazine, where clearly the wood trim on the passenger door is way out of alignment with the wood in the dash board. Regardless, I am nothing but confident that it is a solid, quality car.

    I notice, too, that for the first time that I know of, the LS will have same-color lower body panels as the rest of the car. I had always noted that all Lexus cars had different color lower body panels (by design), until the late model GS series. With the GS, Lexus has had problems with the light colored paints not matching up properly, and they have had customer complaints about this. Hopefully Lexus has resolved this problem.

    I am also amazed that more manufacturers have not implemented the engineering and styling approach of "hiding" the front passenger airbag and designing it to deploy out of an already existing seam between the dash and wood trim. Caddy first did this neat trick back in 1996 on the Seville, and it sure cleans up the top of the dash, plus, that "trap door" on most other cars usually never seems to match up in color and grain/texture with the rest of the dash, even on those high end luxo cars. Another Caddy innovation that truly "works"!

    Go Caddy! With four "new" automobiles coming out over the next three years, things should certainly continue to be exiting for Caddy fans of all types...old and young, long-time and new.
  • No problem at all. This is why I enjoy the dialogue here and I have no problem with people expressing their viewpoints with the upmost vigor. You are stating your case very well.

    Now to the issue at hand, I have engaged in this argument with many different people and from many different view points. So I hope you won't take any offense regarding my opinion.

    First, what I do with the plumber, the butcher, baker or candlestick maker has nothing to do with my purchasing a vehicle. That is a red herring argument that they teach you guys in dealership 101.

    Next, your industry's long and well deserved reputation for trickery and deception have earned the heavy handed tactics the I am forced to use when negotiating deal. My plumber has never tried to screw me.

    Finally, I simply can't see why "the dealership" should earn 10% (or even 5% for that matter) of MSRP when all they are doing for me is filling out some paperwork. If I needed to be "sold" on a vehicle and took up a lot of time taking test drives and asking a zillion questions then I can understand factoring in a larger margin. However, by their own admission, I know 10 times more about this car than anyone in the dealership.

    So, yes, the system forces me to deal with you folks like prostitutes. I will use what ever means necessary to get the best deal and I am not loosing any sleep over it.

    Now, my turn to disclaim. At no time am I suggesting "you" personally or anyone else on this forum. My comments are strictly in a general sense. And, while I am sorry that this may sound harsh, this is the way I see the condition of the system and unless it changes drastically, I don't intend to modify my approach.
  • I too faced this dilemma earlier this year. I ended up with the DTS, because it was a newer body style, although resembling the Seville. Also, I like the dash in the DTS a little better, and the CD player in the glove compartment rather than the console. The things I liked better about the STS were the more powerful radio and the ignition straight in the dash rather than on the side of the wheel. I'm one who always wonders if I took the right "road" when facing two choices then making the decsion, but in general, I'm happy with the choice...so far, 3600 trouble-free miles. This is from a former Lexus and Mercedes owner who wanted to give the American car another chance. In pearl red with those great factory chrome wheels and dark windows, I get alot of stares and positive comments. BTW, I'm also in the sub- 450, 60, and 70 age group.
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    Welcome to this topic. My question to you is what were you driving just prior to getting the DTS? Was it an LS400, E-Class,???

    What would you say is BETTER about the Caddy than any of those imports, and what would you say is Lacking/not as good as any of those imports. I should think that you represent a very important piece of the customer demographic Caddy is trying to win over; Young, and an Luxury Import owner/leaser.

    I do find it interesting because based on some of the import car topics I read here in the Sedans category, most of those folks are so absolutely brainwashed they cannot think anything other than their brand is far superior and Cadillac is nothing but GM crap that is inferior in every way.
    So, what's your take on that notion?
  • In march 2000, i purchased an outstanding 1999 cadillac ELdorado Etc in white diamond/neutral shale interior/ factory astro/12cd/chrome wheels with only 5,000 mi on it. The dealer had informed me that it was a gm buy back because the previous owner had complained of water entering when the windows were opened and it had just rained. I was told all moldings had been replaced and not to wrry i still have the factory 4/yr 50,000 mi warranty. I love the car, however i read on one post that gm only gives 12 months on buy backs? did my dealer lie to me? if so what type of legal recourse do i have??? also im concerned with the fact the northstar eats oil. I last had the oil changed at 6,000 mi in April, it's current millage is 9,200 mi's and I checked the dipstick to notice it is down almost a full quart!! " add oil" marking. I find that odd!! I hear from many, that it is quite normal for northstar v8's ,because of its high compression? what do you think? should i investigate these issues? thanks DAN
  • Suddenly, day before yesterday, the "Check Oil Level" light started coming on every time I start my 2000 Deville. Had the oil changed and checked. Everything ok but the light still comes on. Gonna have to visit the dealer Monday and see which sensor or chip is whacko.


    In other matters:

    >So, yes, the system forces me to deal with you
    >folks like prostitutes. I will use what ever >means
    >necessary to get the best deal and I am not
    >loosing any sleep over it.



    Well, that's one way to get serviced -- in the animal husbandry sense. :)
  • How does Cadillac determine a dealer's allotment of models? My local dealer was pretty much awash in Devilles but only had 2-3 DHS and DTS models at most all year. Also, they had an extermely large selection of Eldorados(12 or more at one point)considering that car is a slower seller.
  • The car I had before my 2000 DTS was a '98 GS300 Lexus. I've had a '95 LS400 and a '93 SC300 (my all-time favorite car). The GS was okay except for the over-the-dash covering being replaced twice because of bubbling. This was done, however, promptly and cheerfully by the dealer, with loaner cars, etc. The most recent replacement showed some bubbling too, before my Caddy trade. The car(GS) was in general great, however. I trade for the fun of it (and waste of money) every one to three years. The thing that could keep me form buying another Cadillac is the service dept. which does not hold a candle to Lexus, M.B., Audi or practically any other luxury dealer. They are absolute cretins and unresponsive to the consumer in compariso. I give them a C-.....By the way, my Northstar gets 20mpg, combined city/some hiway driving with a/c running, and does NOT eat oil......
  • I find that the service you get at the dealership is somewhat dependent on how well you tip your "service writer" or consultant, and the fact that you should pick the guy you "like" the best in the joint is the same guy you see every time. After a while "intermittant reinforcement (tipping) is the developes the strongest bond between you. (My Chevy dealer replaced a leather bucket seat skin in my Tahoe, that I had removed the tan dye from by using a vinyl cleaner by mistake one day instead of leather cleaner...MY fault yet he covered it as a warranty defect saving me 700 bucks including labor.)
    If you still don't think you are getting the "Cadillac of service" at your dealership, go to another one. The place I got my car seems to be chronically short staffed and out of breath like any econo dealership, so I go to another dealership, that's got chandaliers, leather recliners/big screen to wait in, ceramic tile floors in the write up area UNDER THE CARS THRU THE SERVICE WRITERS DESK AREA TOO! No appointment needed for oil changes, and you feel unrushed, and that your business is appreciated... Yes Sir, Thank you Sir etc! What a Dog and Pony Show! ...But you feel good!
  • Right on Barry! I ended up in a viscous exchange over this matter in another venue. I have always operated under the principle that good service is a matter of mutual benefit. I have always tipped well at restaurants, bars and nightclubs. As a result, I don't wait for a table...anywhere! I never have to look far for a server and I never have a problem getting my car valeted to and fro.
    This applys to service as well as sales in terms of cars. I treat my sales rep. very well. We go out to lunch or dinner every couple of months. I pick up the check at least 2/3 of the time. I get him tickets to Mariners and Seahawks games. Same with my Service Consultant. I got tickets for him and his wife to see Phantom of the Opera for their wedding anniversary last year. As a result, I have never had a service problem with Cadillac. Not when I lived in NYC and not out here either.

    Some people have a problem with this sort of approach. They feel it is some kind of bribery or unfair to those who wouldn't give the service guy the time of day. I wonder what kind of person lives in and enjoys the fruits of a capitalist society with such leftist and (well, cheap) views of commerce.
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    I've never heard of tipping a car service manager, but I guess I can't fault it. I have found that simple being courteous and treating them as human beings (two things many car owners don't do)doesn't cost me anything and gets me great results.

    The unfortunate thing is that the service levels and customer experiences seem to vary depending on the dealer. This is true, based on what I know from talking to friends as well as from what I have read here in Edmunds in other topics, not only at Cadillac but also at all other top luxury car dealerships.

    Here in Southern California we are fortunate to have several Caddy dealerships all within reasonable driving distance. This translates into having choices when it comes to both purchasing and getting your Caddy serviced. This same proximity of dealerships also works in the consumer's favor by providing increased competition among the Caddy dealerships. As such, they know that they have to work hard to earn your trust and your business, and to KEEP it.
  • Sorry Barry I won't tip other than in special conditions, NOT for routine maintenance, especially when you're driving the "flagship" of the line. This bribery approach doesn't cut it with me after buying a $50,000 car. They should be falling all over me to start with and if so,THEN they may get rewarded. This approach has NEVER been necessary at Lexus, MB, Audi, Acura, or others. BTW, I did go to another Cadillac dealer in the area and there I was literally invisible. They seemed more interested in their Olsmobile service clients. When these Cadillac dealers learn how to take care of their customers in addition to representing a good product, then, they will beable to attract new customers and consistently win back customers like me, the auto enthusiast.
  • Every time I visited my dealership to look at cars on the lot twice a year, the salesmen always greets me with respect and give me their business cards for future client prospect. I think I have like how many business cards from them by now.

    When I use to drive the Cimarron (still drive it but Mom has it), I was the center of attention with my dealership service because of its rarity nowadays.
  • As I mentioned in an earlier posting, my wife and I just bought our first Cadillac (a 2000 DHS) right before the Labor Day weekend). Anyway, as I'm devoted to first-class care of my vehicles (I have a 1984 Chrysler Fifth Avenue in mint condition and a 1999 Ford Mustang in great condition, too), I wondered if any of you had any suggestions re: Cadillac leather care. We contacted the leather manufacturer and they recommended one product that was available at Target or WalMart.

    I had used Meguiar's products before, but don't know if I should on the DHS for the leather...?

    Any suggestions? Dos and Don'ts?
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    I have seen ads for Lexol leather cleaner and leather conditioner (two separate products), and they sell it at my local Caddy dealership. I shopped for it at Target but they didn't have it in the store nearest to me.

    What product did the leather manufacuturer recommend?
  • T.I.P.S -- Tipping does improve service! Just because you bought a $ 50,000. car doesnt mean you don't have to tip! By that reasoning, if you & your date/wife go to a fabulous steak house and eat a 5 lb lobster & an incredible fillet mignon you don't have to tip because you spent $150.00 for dinner! Spendin more for the CAR buys you MORE car! Spending some on the Service advisor BUYS you incredible service & preferential treatment. You don't have to light his cigar with a hundred dollar bill, a $ 20 bill when you bring in the car, UP FRONT this time will have residual effects for a long time! Next time, walk in like you own the joint, with just a dozen donuts and you'll be greeted with respect and be one of the first few jobs out the door that day, with an extra inspection to make sure the car is clean and EVERYTHING you wanted done was DONE! TRY IT!!! You're not paying extra for service, you're making yourself important with just a couple of bucks over the lifetime of the car.
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    I hear you and understand your point and your logic, but I still disagree with it in the case of car service. In fact, I might go so far as to say that by doing what you are doing you may very well be setting a bad precendent for the way quality customer service is handled in the car industry in the future.

    Waiters and waitresses job pay is structured around making tips. They do not earn a fixed salary, and if they are lucky, they do earn an hourly wage (usually less than minimum wage), and they punch a clock. They have to to a good job first, and then they have earned the tip. Car service managers are paid a guaranteed salary and in return are to provide you with good quality service regardless of your ability or willingness to shell out more money.

    Caddy dealerships today are graded on their service by Cadillac "corporate". At least, that's the way it is here in Southern California. Every time I have my car serviced, I receive a formal questionnaire in the mail regarding my satisfaction levels of THAT dealership. If I don't answer "Completely Satisfied" to every area of service I am questioned on, the dealership gets "dinged". Even an answer of "Satisfied" is not good enough.

    The problem is, if more people like you start to tip the service guys, then that could very well soon become the expected "norm", and unless you tip, you'll be given less than optimum service. That's crap. A good dealer has its service operation set up to provide all customers with timely, accurate, and courteous service. That is they way I see it working at the dealership I go to. They like me and give me the extra attention and service I desire simply because I treat them back with respect and dignity as fellow human beings, and not scum like many people assume they are and treat them accordingly before even giving them a chance.

    Frankly, I am surprised that they are even accepting the tips (bribes). Airline flight attendants and paid on salary, and they are not allowed to accept tips. Have you ever tried to tip one? She will not accept it. They are paid to give all passengers equal service regardless of the amount of loose change in their pockets.
  • Mechanics are paid a good hourly wage right? Service departments pay a bonu$ to a mechanic each & every time he completes a job in less time than the flat rate manual allows. For instance, if the manual says a job should take 1.5 hours & the mechanic completes it in 1 hr, he gets paid extra for each minute ahead of the 1.5 hours he came in with the finished job. You pay the book time, the house hets more jobs in & out in an 8 hr day & the mechanic makes more money...money makes the workd go 'round. So I guess instead of grousing,hit your pocket or MY car will be done first, even If you had an appointment & were in the shop at 7:30, and I just drive in at 9 A.M. without one. Money in the palm is the only thing that counts in any service industry. Hell, I haven't had an appointment at my Chevy dealer in 9 years (3 different cars) & they take care of my damn Chevy & me like it was a Jaguar! The folks at my new Caddy dealer are just getting to know me too.
  • robh3robh3 Posts: 157
    Well, glad it works for 'ya. I'll be sure I deliver your next pizza in under 30 minutes, and I'll expect a BIG tip! :>)
  • I must say, tipping the service advisor is a new one, but I guess if you got REALLY good service,I could see doing it. Also, if you've been a long time customer of the dealership and you know a certain service advisor really well and you like him(or her) there is nothing wrong with an occasional tip or gift.
  • tamcotamco Posts: 40
    Barry, You are so right! Tipping TRULY works, every time. After buying 12 Cadillac's, two Lincolns, a Porsche, two M/b and many other cars over the last 40 years, one learns many truths in life. this is one of them: Tipping is an investment in continued SUPER service if done correctly.Tipping is the REAL world and while ROBH3 is fundamentally correct in his views, TIPPING does insure the attention you want, not the price you pay for the car!. Sure, one can go in for minor work and not tip. HOWEVER, if you tip even on the minor stuff and you can be sure the Service Mgr. will take care you of you when the major problems occur. He even can extend warranty work. Remember he is the one who writes in the milage on the work order. Hey, everyone of us responds to cash! Tipping gets you a ride home or to a resturant to spend the time in comfort rather that sitting in the dealerships waiting room and the Service Manager will send a car for you when yours is really. The Service Manager always will be able "find" a new vehicle to loan you, free, if the service takes all day. PLUS your car will always come back washed and double checked. ROBH3: Why not try what works, rather than shoot yourself in the foot while getting onto a MORAL platform. Lighten up, try it once and see the differance in service yourself. ! Barry 45 is right! After spending $50,000 on the car do not try save $ on service, "TIPPING WORKS>>>EVERY TIME". TAMCO
  • I wonder if the art of tipping is a cultural phenomenon dictated by geography. I was born and raised in NYC where $$$ talks and BS walks. I was also in the "pest control" end of the nightclub business for 12 years through high school and college. That is were I learned the art of tipping from the other side.

    I don't understand how it can be viewed as bribery. And it is NOT extortion, as none of these people work on a "quid pro quo" basis. I simply enjoy the extra attention I receive by taking care of the right people.

    People enjoy being rewarded for their work. It makes them feel good. So I really don't see how anyone can be offended by it. Unless their just plain cheap!
  • tamcotamco Posts: 40
    Philly, Your technical knowledge is usually "right on" and you are correct in your statements on tipping too. Here is Chicagoland it works, and it works in RURAL USA too. I just got back from a trip to Minn. While on route with our 2001 DHS the speedo rolled over 1800 miles. I stopped in REEDSBURG,Ws.(popl.3500) for a oil change.Reedsberg is a convenient town near our vacation home and I knewI be back in the future. The Service Manager had he driven to the local golf course and picked up after oil change. They checked everything over, greased, adjusted the Night Vision and washed the car; all for the $22.00 oil change. Remember, I was on a trip and did not buy the car there. This dealership never received anything from the deliving dealer. Did I tip Service Mgr.? You bet, before the service!(cheap insurance for future service.) Do you think he will remember me? Do you think the Service Mgr. will get me in and out quickly the next time I bring th car in for service? You better believe TIPS do influence SERVICE, even in small towns. TAMCO PS: This 2001 DHS is quite a car; to drive it is truly FUN!
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