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Cadillac DeVille



  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I agree. My car cost Alamo $36,000 -it was a 2003 base Deville -so it probably cost a dealer about that since the car was delivered direct to Alamo in Florida - probably from a distributor somewhere. No dealer was involved. I still think 33 is too little. Until the winner takes delivery and a title it is not registered. I'd at least hold out for 36. Frankly I'd pay the taxes and enjoy driving it. Its a nice car and the taxes will be a lot less than payments.
  • Thanks for the replies, all.
    I understand that even tho it's new, it's used by virtue of the fact that I had to title it in my name. But I still think that they ought to give me 35K for it. I played nice and did the press conference and said good things about Cadillacs and GM in general for the interviews. I dunno, I thought with what I did they could give me $35K for the car and sell me a different car at invoice. Instead, they originally offered me 33K for the DeVille and an unspecified discount, which when I said was too little I got offered 35K and the other car at sticker price. (The other car has a 2K manufacturer to dealer incentive on it).
    Cadillac currently offers the dealers $4K in marketing support and the customer $750. So the dealer COULD sell my model car which invoices for 41K for $36,250 if he was willing to make nothing. With my car, he gets no GM money, but he could still sell mine for the trade I'm asking for (35K) and make a little on the other car even selling it to me at invoice. I don't get why he's balking. I'd take 2K to sell the other car I'm looking at. And I KNOW he can get more than $35K for this car, even though it's consider used.
    As for the taxes, the sales tax I had to pay to pick the car up. And the contest rules specified that in order to take possession I had to title it, which means that I could never have sold it as "new". The 12K in income taxes won't be due until next April.
    I thought of selling it on ebay, checked it out and they aren't going for very much. I thought the car was going to be badged with some reference to being a Hot Button car, and would be unique. Now THAT would make it a car worth the invoice price!
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    At least you have some time to sell it. 12k seems high for income taxes but perhaps you could use it for business and write some of that off. Unfortunately on a trade a dealer normally gives you what he can buy a similar car at auction for. Does the other car you are considering have a rebate on it? I think it is a good thing to try and get top dollar on a trade but you need to consider the fact that somebody gave you a commodity worth more than 30k. Before you pushed the button you had nothing. I'm not a philosopher but it seems logical to consider what you have as a windfall and if you don't want the Cadillac, it is nice to know that you have a choice of many other lesser cars absolutely free. I don't know how to get out of paying the taxes but I suppose that you could get a new or used car in the 20s and the difference between 33 and the price of the other car might pay most of the taxes. In short, I wouldn't worry a lot about resale value on a free car that might at the most cost you 12k.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    You should post this over in "Real Worls Trade-In Values". Terry will give you fair trade value and probably good advice on what to do.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    That's a good idea volvodan1 - here's the link: Real-World Trade-In Values
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,120
    I'll take it off your hands and pay the taxes!
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I have a 2003 Deville and all of the US dealer sales material for it but would like to have one of the Canadian dealer brochures (like you would find on a rack in the dealer showroom. Please contact me at if you have one to spare. Thanks
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    Don't put 8 quarts of oil in your Northstar.

    Look at the owners manual - it says 7.5 quarts.

    If you overfill, and 8 quarts is overfill, the extra oil will be 'burned' quickly, actually scavaged out through the PCV system. You also might get foamed oil because of the overfilling, which is not good.

    7.5 quarts will not bring the dipstick up to the 'max' mark. But 7.5 is correct. I don't know why Cadillac did this, with the max mark not being where the recommended amount falls - but that's how it goes.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I hope the winner is still reading here...

    I won a new car in 1996 or so.

    It was not at all what I wanted - it was a base model Ford Contour, 5 speed.

    I also was not able to sell the car for 'what it was worth'. Not much you can do about that. Couldn't get anyone to buy on a private sale, so I sold it to a used lot in town.

    I can give you some advice on taxes:
    You will get a 1099 from GM or someone, giving a value they place on the car. It will be a 'fair trade value', or something like this, probably not the MSRP or Invoice value.

    This 1099 amount is the amount you will have to report as income and pay taxes on.

    Except ----
    1)I am assuming you will not be able to sell the car for the amount on the 1099.
    2) You have to show the 1099 amount as regular income. If you don't, the govmint will catch you on this.
    3) Don't drive the car yourself.
    4) Since the car was never driven, it is not 'Personal Property', it can be called 'Real Property'. This allows you to use Form D, Real Property. Show the 1099 value as the Base Amount. Show the amount you sold the car for as the Sold Value. Any negative difference, up to $3,000, you can deduct from your taxable income. If you 'lost' more than $3,000 you can 'carry over' it to next years taxes (or even more years in the future).

    I got the above guidance from the IRS. And used it on my 1996 tax return. I worked fine, no problem with the IRS.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Just a precautionary note -- always check out information yourself before relying on something you've read, well, on the internet. :)

    But thanks, bolivar, you've certainly suggested some possibilities which I'm sure he will check out.
  • lowscolalowscola Posts: 8
    Thanks lemko & bolivar for the responses. I'm inclined to use 7.5 but as I stated before, I always get different response between 7-8 and I've yet to see an official GM doc with their recommendation. Maybe I'll ask one of the dealer's service departments as I may be making a visit very soon...wife said the dhs cut off at a light the other day and today it took two uncomfortable tries to crank up...and I just went over convenient.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I'll be happy to trade American catalogs and brochures for one. Thanks. - dispencer
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I consider the 'Owners Manual' an 'official GM document'. And it says 7.5 quarts with a filter change.

    I agree with 'host' comments about my tax advice. I don't believe all I read on the internet either.

    At the time I won the car, in my work I had access to an online service which provided access to IRS Tax Regulations. I read a lot of tax regulations. There is another approach I found where you can make your own 'fair market value' statement (all this assumes you cannot sell the vehicle for as much as is on the 1099 you will receive). This is what I was going to do.

    Then I called the IRS. And I was very, very impressed with the response I got. Don't believe some of what you hear about the IRS having out of date computer systems. In about 30 seconds, they were able to pull up my previous years tax return and look at it. They told me to call back later because 'old Joe', who knew everything about the situation I had was not in today. I called back a few days later, and talked to 'old Joe' about what I thought I needed to do, make my own 'fair market value' statement, etc. He asked if I had driven the car, and when I had not, he gave the advice about the car not being personal property and could be reported as 'Real' property, and taking the loss on Form D.

    That's been 6 years, I don't think they are going to come after me now.

    Of course, tax laws could have changed, etc.
    I'm not a Tax Accountant and I don't play one on TV, etc.
    Don't believe everything you see on the internet, etc.
  • lowscolalowscola Posts: 8
    I've been using a downloaded ( *FREE* ) GM manual for my caddy ( very nice ftp tree with all GM cars from 1993 - present ):

    ...and I must have overlooked the capacities page, that's why I said I've yet to see it officially. But I finally did find it after searching the pdf for "7.5", it's on page 384 of 397...

    I've also found, through Cadillac Forums, another useful GM doc with a capacity chart for most GM vehicles:
  • walterm3walterm3 Posts: 8
    Gegging to differ with Bolivar and Lemko --- As a four year owner of a 2000 DTS this subject has been of interest because I change my own oil and am concerned about proper amount. Living in a remote area of the US we don't have a Cad dealer within a couple dundred miles so I telephoned the service departments of four dealers in three neighboring states. Without exception all four stated that the 7.5 quart capacity is WITHOUT filter. That they routinely make an 8 quart oil change and two said that they add a little more to get to the top of the hash mark on the dip stick. They said the dipstick IS AN ACCURATE measurement and that 8 (plus a pinch) WILL NOT OVERFILL the Northstar engine but don't fill over the hash mark.

    Always open to further debate I would appreciate comments in this info.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    I checked with my dealer a couple of weeks back because when I got my first oil and filter change there it cost $28. My normal Chevy, Olds, etc oil changes ran around $20 at that dealership. The service writer told me that the Cadillac requires 8 quarts of oil. I always have the dealer change the oil so I assume he knows how much to put in.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316

    1997 Service Manual. Deville, Eldorado, Seville.
    Book 1 of 2.
    Section and Page Number, 0B-9.
    Engine Oil With Filter 7.2L 7.5QTS

    (This is the full-blow Cadillac Service Manual, not the Owners Manual. Although the Owners Manual also says 7.5 quarts.)

    But, what's a Cadillac oil change monkey going to do with a half-quart of oil? PUT IT IN THE ENGINE! Are they going to charge you for a half-quart of oil? NO!

    Oh, well. If 8 quarts is good, then why not throw in 9 quarts.......
  • bremertongbremertong Posts: 436
    I very much appreciated the time you took and detail you provided in responding to my original post regarding Cadillac vs Jaguar. Both of your responses were well thought out, made very good sense and were very helpful.

    As to my plans. As mentioned earlier I have only 35,000 on the 98 Deville and other than an alternator replacement covered by warranty the car has done well. I actually like some aspects of the 98 vintage Devilles' appearance better than the newer models. The one thing that would really motivate me to trade and spend significant
    dollars would be a major improvement in the power ratings of the engine. As you are probably aware the newer Devilles' still have 275 horsepower same as my 98. I am aware that they can run well on regular fuel as opposed to premium on the 98. I have been impressed by the power ratings of the new CTS-V Cadillacs' with the Corvette inspired 400 horsepower engines.
    Since I generally wait a year or two and buy low mileage used it will be a while before the CTS-V
    models reach the used market.

    Has anyone in this conference driven the CTS-V and if so what were your impressions as to power,
    comfort and quality of the vehicle compared to any of the current Devilles'?
  • lowscolalowscola Posts: 8
    Service centers for the most part don't just pop caps of single quarts of oil and then start counting them off. They fill portable containers from high capacity tanks or use a dispencer attached to a main oil tank and thus have to measure off accordingly. Techs aren't just standing around with a half empty container of oil eye balling it...but you know, as I try to visualize it, that it is pretty funny...
  • walterm3walterm3 Posts: 8
    Bottom line! Four different Cad Service Managers said to fill to the top of the hash marks on the dip stick whether it takes 7.5 or 8.25 quarts after filter change and running engine to fill filter and allowing oil to drain back to pan. However, DO NOT fill over top of hash marks - that would be overfilling.
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