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Saab 9-5 Sedan

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  • I was browsing at the local Saab dealer on Sunday (they were closed) and I noticed several new 2002 9-5 Arc sedans on the lot.

    I am looking for a cash deal. Does anyone have an opinion as to what would be a reasonable offer to make for a new 2002, net of all incentives and promotions and considering the fact that the car is a year old? How much of a price reduction is it realistic to expect over the price of a new 2003?

    The cars I saw did not have window stickers, so I don't know for sure what the MSRP was - I assume it was similar to the MSRP on a 2003. Were there any significant changes made from 2002 to 2003?

    Thanks.
  • bretfrazbretfraz Posts: 2,021
    One critical thing to remember is that incentives are not perpetual. They end eventually. So your best deal may be on an '03 instead of an '02, incentive-wise.

    No window sticker on the '02s could possibly mean they were demos or service loaners. I'd treat them as used cars even if they're still on MSO (never been titled).
  • I paid 19500 in the end. They were very sticky on the price.
  • I purchased a new 02 9-5 Aero last month - no sticker on window but was given invoice paper - MSRP 41,370. Got 10,000 off sticker. Paid 31,370.
    It had 550 miles - was told those were test driven miles and that occasionally the managers would drive the cars.
    I've been pleased.
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    I have finally moved out of my 2000 Saab 9-5SE and into my MB C320. What an improvement in quality.

    Apparently, Saab does not realize that they took my 9-5 back two months ago and sent me a recall notice on the 9-5.

    If I have this right, Saab is claiming that the nuts and bolts that hold the tires on the 9-5 can "rust through" and break if certain types of wheels (made of certain types of materials) are used on the car. Rust through? Are they serious? I guess so if they sent a recall notice out. I am not sure whether to applaud them for their safety concerns or to wonder about the quality controls on the materials that went into the production process. I just skimmed the recall notice. Maybe a better explanation is in order.
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    First of all, recall notices commonly go to a previous owner until the manufacturer receives information on the new owner. It's not a Saab thing and not unreasonable to expect this kind of thing to happen.

    Second, If you take a minute to read the Recall you'd learn that the Wheel Rust issue is ONLY for owners who use the Practice of Mounting Steel Wheels during the winter months with snow tires. (not necessarily a Saab Wheel) There is NO issue with the Saab Factory Wheels at all.

    It's likely something to do with the different metal types contacting each other. Your implication of Poor Quality Control was unfair.

    Read the facts before making an implication. Most of these situations involve owners purchasing a Wheel/ Tire combo for the winter from a source like TireRack.. You should applaud Saab for taking the Time and Expense to educate their owners. Saab may not have even had an obligation to send this information out. I wonder if Mercedes has done this. It's a common practice for Mercedes owners in the Snow Belt too. ;)

    Drew
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Posts: 414
    That's hard to understand. The wheels studs have to be steel, so I can't see where there would be an issue with galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals. If anything, there would be an issue with aluminum wheels.
  • saabbersaabber Posts: 84
    DSKI, I am glad to see after a long absence as an active participant on this board that you still personally attack anyone who states anything negative about a saab. It is "interesting" how your comments were first aimed at attacking the messenger and trying to defend the recall notice rather than first addressing the true problem (which I suggested that someone with better knowledge should do). After reading your post, it appears that you may believe that the recall notice was a positive publicity instrument for Saab because it shows that Saab cares about its customers. Recall notices are documents approved by legal departments that are intended to prevent a company from being sued when someone later gets injured and it can be shown that the company knew about the defect ahead of time. It is possible, just possible dski, that maybe there was a manufacturer's defect here. It did not make any owners of firestone tires any more comfortable when they were told that the blowouts only occurred if the tires were underinflated. If nuts and bolts that hold the tires on are susceptible to rust, that may concern me, regardless of whether I use wheels of certain compositions that may accelerate the rust. What about those that will own their Saabs for 20 years and may get exposure to many types of road materials that could cause a rust problem? I agree with the last post that it is difficult to understand this problem based on a simple understanding of principles of chemistry.
    I wish I could stay with you, dski, in the Saab discussion to continue to watch you monitor the comments of all saab owners, but as I stated, I moved on to my MB, and with that I must leave you to your self-appointed position as guardian of all comments on this board.
    Peace to all.
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    >>That's hard to understand. The wheels studs have to be steel, so I can't see where there would be an issue with galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals. If anything, there would be an issue with aluminum wheels<<

    It's not hard at all IMO. Read the notice. The issue is with the Steel Wheels. The steel wheels for winter use are typically Cheap ones used to save the wear on your Good ones. The issue is likely more about the wheels than the Saab Hubs or wheel studs. The cheap wheels probably start rusting transferring the corrosion.

    There may still be a dissimilar metal issue if the corrossion is starting on the aftermarket Wheel but it doesn't matter. I'm just saying I don't think it fair to blame Saab on this one.

    Drew
  • bretfrazbretfraz Posts: 2,021
    Saaber will have his hands more than full when his C-class starts crapping out on him. It ain't one of the more reliable cars in its class.

    If you run into Zeuslewis in one of the forums, ask him about all the lemon law cases involving Mercedes and the C-class. Lemon law claims are thru the roof with that car. And MB isn't too cooperative with consumers when it comes time to settle; ya almost always gotta take them to court.

    Saab's are rarely involved in lemon law claims and Saab USA has a rep of bending over backwards to settle claims and satisfy customers.

    The C-class may very well be the worst car in its class when considering the above issues.
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    Congratulations, I don't have any idea about the reliability of the C-Class but I think all the Variants of that car are Beautiful. I hope it meets all of your expectations and your finally happy with your car choices.

    Good Luck
    Drew
  • We have a 2000 Saab 95 with 55,000 miles on it (it's actually my wife's car). I was just told by the dealer that both front wheel bearings need to be replaced at a cost of approximately $350.00 each. When I asked why they had to be replaced so early in the car's life, the service representative mumbled something about possibly hitting a few potholes. This seems a bit suspicious to me. Has anyone had similar problems?
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    Our first 9-5 was a lease and turned in before 55K. I didn't have a bearing problem but that's not to say I wouldn't have.

    One issue I did have that ticked me off a little was an unusual wear on the rear Rotors. They had to be replaced. It was pricey and in retrospect, I should have complained loudly about it. If it happens on our new one, you can bet I will.

    Good Luck
    Drew
  • dochopdochop Posts: 2
    dski...thanks for the vote of confidence on the dealer offering of 28k for a 2003 9-5 Linear..got the car on Saturday and am I impressed ! Your thoughts on Remus sport exhaust..dealer says it cannot be fit on a 2003 due to bumper design ?...as well as I live in Vermont..the state of perpetual winter any thoughts as to whether Michelin Alpin or Gislaved snows would be the way to go
    Thanks,
    Peter
  • My 9-5 has 2500 miles on it and there is a squeal when pulling slowly to a stop. I reported this to the service tech when I had my 30day check and asked that they check pads and rotors - they said those were fine and applied some brake clean (I suppose anti-squeal spray)and it resolved it temporarily, but they were squealing after a week or so.
    Anyone else have any brake issues with so few miles?
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    Congrats on the new Car. From my experience, I'm confident you'll be happy. Looks like you got a Great Deal.

    I'm not sure about the Sport Exhaust your referring to. I considered one on our first Saab but never did it. I would suggest that you drive the car for awhile before spending the money. You may find that you like everything just the way it is. The option would always be there later.

    One thing to keep an eye out for is a Performance Upgrade that Saab is offering to owners in Europe. It's more significant than just an exhaust upgrade. It includes a Performance Chip endorsed by the factory. To my knowledge, it's not available in the U.S. yet but they are considering it. It would be available throught the dealer which is a huge benefit for warranty purposes.

    Best of luck.
    Drew
  • dskidski Posts: 414
    Not sure I can offer any help on this one. We had some squealing on our first 9-5 I remember but it went away fairly quickly. I never addressed it at the dealer. Lets hope yours goes away soon as well.

    Drew
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Posts: 414
    I had my first Saab experience this weekend. I have been shopping for a sports sedan and was pretty sure I had narrowed it down to a G35 or an IS300. But I have always been intrigued by Saabs. Reliability has always been a big concern for me but I have seen that Saab reliability is actually quite good for the past few years. Further inspired by the reports of heavy discounts for 9-5s being reported here, I headed down to the Saab dealer. The only Aero with an auto on the lot was a red one and despite my distate for red sedans, in general, this one looked pretty good. The driver's seat was phenomenal. I thought I had sat in comfortable seats before but I was wrong. I have a new standard by which to judge other seats. The driving was also very nice. The weight and feel of the steering was excellent. Once the engine was at operating temp, I punched the gas. Holy $&$%! This thing flies. I know all the magazine times say this is not as fast as a G35 or even a 3.5 Maxima but, damn, this is the first sedan I've driven that actually feels fast. Even my 12 year old son, who accompanies me on most of my test drives, came away saying this was by far the fastest thing I have driven. I have to try and get some more info and see if around $6-8000 off sticker is even realistic, because otherwise, this is probably out of my price range. I'm also still worried about reliability despite Saabs recent performance in this area, but I now know why the Saab aficinados say that a huge percentage of people who drive a Saab end up buying one. It is a damn nice car.
  • rob999rob999 Posts: 233
    dgraves1: Current incentives on the Aero are $4,000, so if you subtract that from the invoice amount that should come close to the $6-8K off of MSRP, depending on options.

    Check out the recent CR 'car issue' where the Saab 9-5 is rated as the most reliable of popular euro sedans.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Posts: 414
    Thanks, rob999. I have the CR auto issue and can see that Saab has been doing great on reliability for 2 or 3 years now. That is certainly encouraging but it not as comforting as the decades of reliable cars from Toyota and Nissan. I like to keep my cars for a long time (witness my 1990 Maxima and 1992 MR2) so 2-3 years of reliability is relatively short term for me.
  • First the positive.

    Lots of people have the impression that the resale on a Saab is awful. Maybe not. Its all in how it is measured. Maybe the resale on Saabs isn't really that bad or even any different from other sedans in its segment if measured as a percent of the actual purchase price not the MSRP. Lots of German cars go out the door for the full Moroney. No discounts. Most people get into a Saab at a hefty discount off list price or in subvented lease (how else do you get to lease a 40K car for $400 per month?). Now three years later when you compute the used Saab's resale/residual value, if you do it against the actual purchase price, not some fictious list price that no one ever pays, it may well be as good as that of a BMW. In other words they both lose about the same percentage over the three years from their original acquisition costs. The only difference is that the BMW factory/dealer pricing strategy is to have a firm list price and Saab's is to have an inflated list price. The former sells the sizzle, the latter sells the deal.

    Now the negative. Having said all this, Saab's present problems are its own fault. The present box that Saab finds itself in is the result of poor marketing and product planning. Poor marketing let Volvo take away its position as THE Scandanavian front wheel drive winter vehicle and poor product planning have left it as the one of the few import lines without an AWD wagon. Given where Saab was 25 years ago, this is crazy. Saab OWNED this market but let it just get taken away. Saab's only solution (with the exception of the plan to rebadge some GM Trailblazers!) is to discount the hell out of the product and market the deal, not the car.

    Take the Aero. It is undersupported by the factory. Supposedly, the Aero is Bob Lutz' personal ride. If the word ever got out that Lutz who could drive any car in the GM stable, drives an Aero, that would move some iron. (Two middle aged car nuts in a bar: "Hey, I just got an Aero, you know like Bob Lutz. It goes like hell and I'm going to take it up to Stowe this weekend instead of Anne's V70 wagon".) But, no. Lets just hype a new lease program. Additonally, Saab has seen to it that there is no aftermarket parts suppliers for enthusiasts, no aftermarket enthusist's magazines similar to the 10 or so you can find on a a good news stand for BMW and the two or three magazines devoted to Audi, and just no real juice to get some of the young Bimmer crowd interested in even a test drive. (Quick: where could a young guy buy some drilled pedals for his Aero? Stiffer shocks? Maybe even some Recaro's?)

    Maybe as the host suggested earlier, Suburu is the new Saab and the kindest, gentlest thing GM could do is just fold Saab into Suburu as their funky, imported car line. The anti-BMW car line.
  • gver2gver2 Posts: 2
    I'm looking at a used 9-5 that doesn't have the ventilated seats. Just wondering from those of you that have them if they are wonderful/over-rated/never use them etc. Should I be concerned about this. There are always hundreds of used cars to choose from and I like to get EXACTLY what I want. Thanks.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    hey, what's in the future for an all new 9-5.....any news?
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Posts: 1,704
    Has anybody noticed that the gauges on even the newest 9-5s appear to have come out of an '80s 900 or 9000? They look so similar!
  • bongotoobongotoo Posts: 10
    I recently put some 205/60/16 Bridgestone Potenza on our 1999 9.5 SE. The tire dealer said it would be okay. What do you guys think about that? Will it negatively effect anything?
  • bretfrazbretfraz Posts: 2,021
    I don't understand *why* the shop installed this size. Why didn't they just go with the OE size of 215/55-16 in the first place?

    But they should be OK. It'll throw off the speedo a little (less than 2%) as the new tire is physically larger than the old one.
  • fdourfdour Posts: 3
    I am new to this board and new to shopping for a Saab. Considering a pre-owned 9-5 SE; the 9-3 is just a little too small.
    I am just coming off a lease on an Audi A6 Avante. Comfortable and sure-footed in all weather but I don't want to buy it. Too many irksome design flaws and a surprising number of recalls. The service department also tuned me off.
    I see a few comments about snow tires. Are they really necessary? Even the dealer mentioned that they would probably be needed on the Aero. After this winter in NJ, I don't want to think about snow again.
    Any advice on purchasing a pre-owned Saab? Any experience on how much the dealer can move on the listed price?
    I'm also considering a Subaru Outback H6 sedan. Has anyone else taken a look at them?
  • dtrain2dtrain2 Posts: 5
    Looking at used 2002 9-5 ARC - 6 cyl, 12k for mileage - drove nice - a little wear and tear , couple of knicks on the car - not much - dealer wants $25.9 can probably get it for 24K.

    Question1= is this a good value?

    Question2= for about the same dough I can get a new Accord V-6 (without navigation). What would u do?
  • rob999rob999 Posts: 233
    In general, only the Aero should require snow tires. This is stated in the current brochure and seems to be a consensus among Aero owners in snowbelt states.

    Our Linear did fine with the regular tires in Chicago last winter; my sister lives in western Michigan which gets a lot of lake-effect snow - her SE did fine with regular tires.

    The Subaru H6s are nice, I'm betting if you drive both you'll pick the 9-5.
  • fdourfdour Posts: 3
    Thanks for the info, Rob. I see that you've had some experience with Subarus. I did drive both and the Saab is certainly an impressive auto. The only drawiback is a personal thing that developed with my present Audi. The car is just too nice inside. I feel like I'm putting kids with muddy cleats in my living room. It cleans up but it just isn't right.
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