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Comments
blkonblk330i: Thank you
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
What did you do with the Yukon?
What color is your car? I will peak out my front window the next time I hear a 3 series go by.
I think we are the only ones on this discussion that live across the street from one another (literally), but we do not have a clue who the other person is.
Tire pressure is a personal matter. I have been keeping the airpressure up since the autocross. I run about 40 in the rear and 38 (cold) in the front. I drive very spirited and like to ride up on the sidewalls. Increasing the pressure can protect the sidewalls and with the sport package tires there is negligible central tread wear penalty for increasing the air pressure. I find too that I have not adversely affected my traction in either wet or dry conditions with these pressures.
Like dan_bmw I frequently have this guilty smile on my face. I feel bad because almost every chance I get I just let her rip or at the first sight of a good clean and clear road I will take a U turn and kick my tail around. I love feeling the rear tires let go and the wiggle of the backside. If people catch me doing it then I am a little embarassed -- and at a light it is not uncommon for me to just let her go, but I almost never race anyone--I just like to hear the engine between 5000 and 8000 rpm. The racing seems a little childish to me and around here, you may win, but the next thing you know your rear window is shattering as a 9mm projectile comes flying through it.
Congrats again.
I think everyone should join. You will save $500-$1500 dollars on your next BMW should you purchase it at least 1 yr after membership AND Roundel is a terrific magazine.
'01 325i - Orient Blue/black 'ette, SP, manual, roof, xenons, heated seats, CD/H-K, OBC, OEM Alarm, steering retrofit, hardwired V1 with concealed display, R/D front strut brace, ECIS CAI
Summer: Sumitomo HTR Z II 225/45/17 on Star 44s; Winter: Dunlop M2 Winter Sport 205/55/16 on Mille Miglia Spiders
It has 43K miles (second birthday is next week!!) I've done 4 driving schools and ~ 10 autoX events. I just came back from a driving school at NHIS tonight.
Wish list is getting a little long lately - here it is in order of preference:
UUC sway bars
lightweight 17" wheels (leaning toward BBS RK - 18 lbs only vs. 27 for the Type 44s)
performance exhaust (don't know which one yet)
UUC short-shift kit
camber plates
SO3s
I'd have to add the Autothority chip too now - it looks great on paper!
I did the S-03 upgrade. Now I'm looking for a short shifter. I should do the suspension upgrade before shifter, but I have a really boring, short commute, so I won't be able to enjoy the new suspension as much as a shifter. Plus, I think a suspension upgrade will move me up in car class.
UUC is my top choice, but I'm also looking at Rouge Engineering, and B&M Racing.
BTW, don't forget about the Shark Injector when it become available for E46.
1. Would anyone tell me some good experience about buying a BMW in bay area, any deals recommended?
2. How much should I expect to pay for a 325i and 325xi touring above invoice?
3. I know it has been discussed many times but please anwer me once again - do I need to buy a 325xi let's say if I like to go to Tahoe?
Thanks
(1) Buy it in LA or Sacramento if possible. You'll get a better deal.
(2) Based on my experience, here's my opinion:
- Peter Pan BMW in San Mateo is sleazy operation manned by liars and thieves. I have the misfortune of having paid to help them continue to lie and cheat by buying and servicing an E36 M3 there. I would under no circumstances EVER buy another vehicle from them.
- Claridges BMW in Fremont was mostly pleasant on the sales side, but is not above nickel-and-diming to make an extra buck. Completely above-board, nothing unethical, but for example they'll charge you full price for floor mats if you didn't think to include them in the negotiation. Oh well. I had very positive experiences with them on the service side.
- BMW of SF: Never bought a car from them, but it's the one dealership I ever walked into as a 28-year old investment banker and felt that all the salemen were "kids". What do they do, recruit these guys out of middle school? Perhaps it's just a subjective, personal response but walking into BMW SF I always felt like I was entering a competitive, confrontational environment from the time I passed through the front door. Game on, baby.
- Weatherford BMW. Can't tell you the number of times I've wasted the time of some poor salesman or another at Weatherford. They bend over backwards to help get you in a car, without the high-pressure feel of BMW SF. I gotta buy a car from these guys at some point to make up for all their help. I was on the phone with their service guys this week about the M3 oil pump replacement. They sound pretty solid.
- East Bay BMW - Don't waste your time. I've gone down 5 times in the last four years to try to buy a car, and 5 times they've completely ignored me. Even when I went up to a salesman to ask for help, the answer was pretty much a brush-off: "Nope, don't have any... next customer?". Uh, sure... I'll just spend my $70,000 with someone who cares to make an effort, ok?
If you think you would be willing to buy from a dealer in LA, I can suggest (or not) a couple down there too.
Hope that helped...
Is the TL a manual and the 330i an automatic?
I have never seen published numbers claiming so?
By the way, the TL is a great car. I would not hesitate in recommending it to anybody, parents, family, friends, etc. Anybody who drives this car should be extremely satisfied. As a matter of fact, I believe half of new posters in this forum who come seeking advice about buying a BMW might be better of with an Acura TL. JMHO.
However, for an individual who appreciates the driving dynamics of a sports car, there is no comparison.
So is Weatherford BMW a good starting point?
Anyway, I have no problem to drive 500 miles to buy a BMW, but how about servicing the car?
Cheers
It's not so much that there are no rich people in LA (drive around Westwood/Beverly Hills and it seems you can't throw a rock out the window without hitting an M3, yikes), it's that the supply is so much greater.
Do a quick test, check autotrader.com for used 325s, 330s and especially M3s. The difference between the results between LA and SF are staggering. That's the difference that got me the price I got on my M3, I wouldn't have even come close in the Bay Area.
If you end up checking LA dealers (there seem to be thousands of them huh?), I would recommend the following:
Bob Smith BMW: This is where I get my servicing done usually, and they kick [non-permissible content removed]. I really like the service department here.
Santa Monica BMW: Good up-front sales people, but once again they're not entirely above-board, quoting astronomical prices on some accessories to try to make up the profit they lost in the initial negotiation. Uh, what do they think, that I don't phone around to make sure they're not inflating their prices? They asked for 70% above market for a 6-disc changer and 100% above what I paid Bob Smith for the alarm system.
Long Beach BMW: They outright lied to me. That pissed me off. If you don't know the answer, say you don't know. But if you lie when I happen to know the answer, we're done.
Crevier BMW: Big dealership. Really big. salesguy was helpful enough, but made the mistake of trying to frame the negotiation with an extremem opening offer. Works great if your counterparty has no idea what the end "market value" should be, but I was well into the process and I knew what my options were. I said thanks but no thanks, and went on my way. Interestingly, I got a call from two people at the dealership a week later to ask if I wanted to talk further. Too bad that by then, my new M3 was signed, sealed and delivered. I told them that, too.
Here's one I don't have personal experience with, but I've seen very good reviews for: Cutter, in Santa Barbara.
But back to Bay Area dealers: check out Weatherford (but the caveat here is that I've never actually BOUGHT a car from them), and drive down to Fremont and talk to Claridges.
By the way, if you check out Stevens Creek, Allison or another dealer I haven't dealth with, please let me know what your experience was.
Me, on the other hand, am in the relentless pursuit of a new/1 yr old SUV. I test drove the X5 and was appalled by the back seat - pretty much a bench(stiffer than hardwood floors)! I was considering the MB M series but sounds like a bunch ofelectrical issues. Now w/ these $10K discounts off new tahoes, I might just find myself behind the wheel of another GM beast. I guarantee I won't let my friends talk me into flow masters or echo tips. I'm sure that you have heard the roar as I coast down the street. So who knows?
BTW - I'd love to see the M sometime. Come on over when you get a chance from saving lives! lol!
I'm the very last stucco in the back corner.
Take care all
FO
Road & Track's July 2002 test showed the automatic 3.2 TL-S doing 0-60 in 6.5 sec, vs the manual 330i doing it in 6.1 sec. Based on the typical .4-.5 slowdown from an automatic 330i, you'd expect either an even race, or maybe the TL-S to be slightly faster.
OTOH the October 2002 Car and Driver tested an automatic 330i vs an automatic 3.2 TL-S, and the 330i was faster (7.3 sec) than the TL-S (7.6 sec). For some reason all the cars in this test were somewhat slow, but you'd expect the relative differences to hold.
Edmunds.com tested an automatic 3.2 TL-S and got 7.0 sec, vs the manual 330i's 6.3 sec. Based on this you'd expect an automatic 330i to be about even or slightly faster.
So there's a lot of car-to-car variation, even for the same car. In general they are very roughly even, but the only apples-to-apples test I could find showed the 330i was slightly faster. However I can't see buying based on such a small and unpredictable 0-60 performance difference.
I am in 3358 with the big American Flag.
Yell at me sometime when you are out. I'd love to show you the car. You and your fiancee could drive it if you want to. Maybe I could start charging for a test drive to pay for some new tires ;-)
Have you test driven a Sequioia (sp)? I thought that it drove well, was not too expensive and had unbelievable interior room.
1). It handles best, specially refer to 3 series;
2). It has the best road feel;
3). It has the fastest straight line acceleration given its relatively low Torque/Horse Power vs weight.
Not meant to disqualify BMW a very good manufacturer of cars but I think BMW is at best on par with other top notch mass car manufacturers such as Honda and Toyota.
In my opinion, BMW creates more a deception (through propaganda, another topic by itself) than a actually top ranked car. Here are some thoughts.
1). Cars are generally handled better with a smaller overall size than larger ones with everything else equal. If G35 is not as nimble as a 330, it should be blamed on size first.
2). Cars feel (key word: feel not actual) more on the road when having a tighter steering wheel than otherwise. This is can be easily done by decresing the power boosting of the wheel. It made me laugh when I heard that some bimmer lovers complaint that the 2001 new model of 3 seriese didn't feel planted on the road as it used to be and BMW responded by offering a free tightining of the booster to restore bimmer loyalests' confidence. So why does Honda or Toyota tighten themselves up a bit? Because they want to make their cars appeal to a more general public as opposed to BMW fans who are as biased as a cult.
3). It turns out the reason that BMW can run a bit faster than people think given its poultry HP/TQ is because BMW cheated on the intakes of engines: they were openeed a bit wider and earlier during the low speed than other engines to allow a quicker accelaration. Down side: a shorter life of engine and worse gas efficiency. Pound for pound, BMW is the worst car in the luxury segment for gas efficiency (when only compared to Japaness).
If given same spec and fixed selectin of materials, I doubt BMW will come up on top with its products. It may near to top or as good as other manufacturers but not what it can claim today.
The mystery? Because different manufacturers purposely make different cars (so to help its marketing when avoid straight comparsion) to attract different people, it's almost a given to BMW to make the smallest cars with best availabe materials to calim its UDM title. But you should be aware: it's done by Deception, not by engineering.
Once it had the title, there are plenty people who are willing to cough up extra $5,000 to $10,000 dollars for the badge because driving a perceived "UDM" feels so good about life it's certainly worth the money.
My job is to return the fact for misrepresentation, money for badge, and ultimately, Driving for Deceiving.
Disclaimer: I actually drive a G35.
Other than that I'm not sure you did your homework when some of your "facts" were posted.
Having been active on these boards for several years, I have never heard anybody claim that BMWs are the absolute best at anything (although cars that carry the "M" icon are probably pretty damn near the "Best", albeit at a price), what I have hear plenty of is that they provide the most well rounded bang for the buck for sporting minded drivers.
Taking your three points in order, here is my response:
1) There have always been cars that have been able to handle better. The question is, at what cost? It is fairly easy to take a small Honda, screw down the suspension so that it is very tight, mount some massive tires on it, and it will most likely handle better than a 3-Series. What the 3-Series (and other BMWs as well) offer is a car that not only handles very well, but also has suspension compliance such that you don't lose the filling in your teeth every time you pass over a railway crossing. Why does BMW spend so much on building cars that offer good handling AND have good suspension travel/compliance? Simple, the roads in BMW's back yard range from high speed Autobahns to un-even cobble stone roads.
2) I have driven many cars over the last 30 some years, I have owned Japanese cars, American cars and German cars, I also used to work for Mercedes-Benz (MB-USA routinely takes its employees to a track to test ALL of their competitors side by side), so I have a fairly broad base of experience. IMHO, German cars as a whole have the best road feel, which by the way, goes way beyond just how the steering wheel feels. Regarding how one feels the road via the steering wheel, undoubtedly cars with no power assist feel the best, however, I damn near had my wrist broken by such a car when I hit a bad bump one time. That said, the ability to build steering geometry that transmits "Feel" and at the same time is able to allow the driver to easily control the car at all speeds up to and including flat out on the Autobahn is something that I have yet to experience in a Japanese car (admittedly, I have yet to drive a G35 which might very well have the "Feel").
3) When it comes to engine performance, there is no such a thing as a "Cheat". You stated, "BMW cheated on the intakes of engines: they were openeed a bit wider and earlier during the low speed than other engines to allow a quicker accelaration." Based upon that quote, it is very clear that you do not understand engines at all. Why? Because when you "Open up a bit wider and earlier", you actually inhibit the best power of an engine at low RPMs. Have you ever driven the original Datsun 240Z? Now THERE was a Japanese car worth its salt. I ask because if you had, you would have experienced what I am referring to. Until the engine got wound up to something like 3000 RPMs, the car just had so-so performance, then, all of the sudden, you would be thrust back against the seat as the engine came into its own. Wow, what a rush, I LOVED that car! The reason that that car performed like that was that Datsun (now Nissan) did in fact "Open up a bit wider and earlier". Regarding fuel mileage, you statement is just plain silly. There is not a single car from Japan that can combine the performance and the economy of ANY I6 BMW. Case in point, the 330i is rated (and easily exceeds) by the EPA as achieving 21/30 (city/highway) for mileage. The G35 6-Speed is only able to eek out 19/26 and the IS300 (more of an apples to apples comparison) performs even worse at 18/26.
Regarding quality of materials, that seems to be the most common failing of Japanese cars, not of the German cars in general, or more specifically, BMW. Last year when I was taking delivery of my 530i, my dealership had a brand new G35 (in fact, both dars were black with black interiors) sitting right next to my car on the lot. Maybe I am just biased; however, there was absolutely no comparison to the quality of the materials (or the layout for that matter) on the interior of the car. Apparently Infiniti has heard this complaint more than once, because the rumor is that they are going to address this very issue in the near future.
In the final analysis, are BMWs "The Ultimate Driving Machine"? I guess that depends upon what your criteria are. After all, for my Step-Father, a Cadillac Sedan-de-Ville is "The Ultimate Driving Machine". For my personal tastes, YES, the two BMWs that I have had the pleasure to own have indeed been up to that lofty mark. Will that continue to be the case? Only time will tell.
Best Regards,
Shipo
0-60: 6.5
1/4 mi: 15.0 at 94.0
Consumer Reports:
TL-S automatic:
0-60: 6.6
1/4 mile: 15.2
330i automatic:
0-60: 6.6
1/4 mile: 15.1
Cheers,
- Ray
Who would call THIS aspect of these 2 cars pretty even . . .
However, take off the badges and drive them back-to-back with a BMW, and if you still try to make that argument you are either (i) completely delusional, or (ii) purposefully still trying to make perhaps the most asinine argument I've heard all year.
Take your pick, any "Japanese" car you want. Honda Accord V6, Mazda 6, Acura TSX TL or RSX, G35, you pick em. You'd be stupid to take one of them if given a choice between the same money for one of them or for an equivalent 3.
Also, I'd never buy one of those effeminate French Renault/Nissan cars (the French are effeminate, not necessarily the cars). A Infiniti saleman tried to tell me a G35 would out-handle and out-perform an M3. After I finished laughing my [non-permissible content removed] off, I took it for a test drive and demonstrated through some hard cornering and braking maneuvers why he should never say anything that ludicrous BEFORE giving me the keys.
"For example... an M3 can execute this quite safely at this speed, whereas when I take this corner I want you to watch the tail of the car... now. See? You wouldn't be holding on like that in an M3." Needless to say, I won't be getting any more test drives from that Infiniti dealership, but it was well worth the sacrifice.
If you had my 540i6 or even my wife's 323ia, you'd have a better understanding of how these cars WORK AS A WHOLE. The total package has a wonderful synergy. Brakes, steering, balance, ride, etc. BMW has earned "points" over the decades by focusing on building great driving cars. RWD. Near 50/50 weight balance. Availability of manual transmissions. M Series! Car clubs. Enthusiast support. Aftermarket parts. Entire aftermarket companies (like Dinan). Racing pedigree.
BMW has been serious for 50 years. Not for a year, with all due respect for the very nice G35.
Based on this actual experience, the G35 is a very good car, but when really pushed, it's no 330i.
The G35 VQ engine has lots of torque, but the throttle response is somewhat nonlinear and it's a little rough at high rpms. By contrast the 330i engine is perfectly smooth at all RPMs -- it feels like an electric motor. Throttle reponse and power-per-rpm is also very linear and predictable, there's no surging at 4500 RPM like the G35.
The G35 suspension and steering are very good -- an excellent ride/handling balance. However when pushed hard in a corner, it will sometimes scare you. One reviewer said they were afraid to disable stability control, and I understand why. By contrast my 330i SP is perfectly communicative, and I never doubt what it's doing.
But make no mistake the G35 engine and suspension are very, very good. I can easily see how for many buyers wanting a quality sports sedan, it's sufficient for them. Most drivers won't push it hard enough to find the handling issues, unless they autocross it. Overall it has a good, meaty, buttoned-down feel, with very fast steering, but not darty.
While Infiniti did a great job on chassis and engine dynamics, there are lots of small missing refinements that collectively make the cockpit a less pleasant place.
Some things the 330i SP has which the G35 is missing: no telescoping steering column, no fore/aft adjustable headrests, no lighted steering wheel buttons, no self-leveling xenons, no adjustable thigh support, seat heaters slower and less coverage, nighttime instrument illumination either too bright or too dim. The G35 instrument lights reflect on the window, which distracts some people (didn't bother me much). The G35 left arm rest has essentially no padding, like vinyl over metal.
The G35 has two big interior advantages over the 330i SP: (1) the Bose sound system is much better than the BMW HK system. (2) The climate control system is is vastly better than BMW's somewhat mediocre system.
But despite any G35 flaws I highly recommend anybody in the market drive it. I think it's the best 330i sports sedan competitor. It will spur BMW to improve the next 3-series.
The G35 is a diamond in the rough. If Infiniti can polish the rough edges it will be much more competitive with the 330i. But by tht time BMW isn't standing still and the enhanced G35 will be competing with the new 3-series replacement.
Re "BMW creates more a deception through propaganda", that reminds me of US auto execs complaining that BMW has somehow suckered American buyers into paying a steep premium for a more-or-less basic subcompact car. That's how they really saw it.
This illustrates they themselves didn't have sufficient perception to drive their cars back-to-back with BMWs and examine it first hand. No, they were convinced their cars were just as good, no test drives needed. Fortunately nowadays during american vehicle development they usually have a 3-series or 5-series as a benchmark to compare. At least if people buy BMWs, there's tremendous engineering under the covers to justify this.
Those American execs should have looked a little closer to home, and asked how much longer will people pay big bucks for an SUV that's basically a dressed up pickup?
The Japanese mfgs are always taking their cars over to Nurburgring, Germany to run on their test track and refine the suspension. They obviously feel there's something in Germany they're missing in Japan regarding chassis tuning and development.
I would like to make serveral observations:
1). My arguing point is not to say that BMW cars are not in the top of their respective markets but the lack of comparable beats is due to marketing reasons not engineering ones. The truth is other mass car manufactures are capabale of doing so too (look no further than Honda S2000) but can't sell them for the same dollars as BMW probably because of badge (propaganda) and image.
2). It has amazed me that despite about equal domestic labor cost, Japaness continuously produce cars in the $10K, $20K range profitbably. BMX or MB can't compete in that market segment at all. You have to admire that Japaness are masters in processing and economics, far more superior than their conterparts in Germany. In other words, Japaness and Germans are equally good engineers but Japaness are better ones mastering the art of manufacturing.
3). As I grow in age and income, I need more than just basic transportation so I gradually trade up. Amazing thing to me is that every time I went shopping, there are plenty of Japaness offerings that offer comparable features but significanly less money. I was intrigued by the fact why many people would buy BMW or MB to pay more for same or less. I can only attribute two factors:
Badge/image does allure people to spend more than what they should;
American laws give self-employed/partnership people a significant tax break for buying up becase of expensing it. This makes people feel badge/image are fianced by Uncle Sam. There are more leases of BMW than any other luxury brands and more than 50% of leased BMWs are expensed in a business context.
My wife found your post incredibly funny, but for reasons somewhat embarassing to me. She said: "He sounds just like you back when you were younger. Bah, my Acura is a far better buy than a 325. Even if I could afford one I wouldn't buy one." Ouch. Smart girl I married, yes sir.
So if you feel that your car is every bit the equal of a BMW 3, then far be it from me to convince you otherwise. Happy trails, enjoy your G35 or whatever your choice of cars is. Congratulations on making a far more informed and logical decision than did I. I am sure that in the future, all of those easily misled German car buyers will awaken to their folly, and surely, history will vindicate you.
P.S. You know, the British Army had a rhyme in colonial service:
Whatever happens,
we have got
the Maxim Gun,
and they have not.
I feel the same way about my M3.
Interesting use of the word "attack". Maybe because you really didn't ask a question, but in fact posted a "troll" like discussion.
However, you are absolutely correct badge and image does attract. That's why the 21 Club is filled to capacity every night when lesser restaurants are going bankrupt. After all why buy an Armani suit for thousands, when a similiar suit can be had with the same quality and style at Men's World for $200. Or following your logic, why go to the best doctor and pay top dollar to treat a rare debilitating disease when a GP can do it for much less. I believe this is the essence of the thinking in your post.
If you believe that people who buy MB/BMW are paying more for less, nobody is going to dissuade you. But value as you point out is in the eye of the beholder. To me for example the G35 did not have the right amount of value attached. But for a couple of more dollars, I thought the BMW did.
However nobody should buy a car based mainly on specs or a magazine review. It's important to test drive each car, and extensively, not just around the block.
Rather than a purchasing inducement, to me the BMW badge and image was a powerful negative. The car was good enough to buy in spite of that, not because of it.
The Japanese are getting better at adding driving feel to their cars, maybe because their engineers have made so many trips to Nurburgring, Germany for chassis development.
Likewise the Germans are getting better at manufacturering and reliability. Current BMWs are generally a lot better in this regard.
So basically there's a convergence, with both German and Japanese cars being competitively stimulated by each other. That's good for everybody.
However if you extensively test drive a (for example) G35 vs a 330i, you may find the BMW vehicle dynamics and interior ergonomics is far more than paper specs would indicate. If after personally test driving both you don't feel this way, that's great -- get the G35 (or whatever) and you'll probably save some money.
Although if you want the maximum bang for the buck, you shouldn't be looking at a Japanese car, but the American Dodge Neon SRT-4. It's performance specs are far beyond any Japanese car of the same price. If your response is "specs and price only count for so much -- it's not as refined as Japanese cars", then you know how some BMW owners feel about their cars vs Japense cars.
I mean, for $40k, with features like rain-sensing wipers and backup sensors, why does opting for the nav system limit one to a cassette deck with no cd player in the dash?
It's those crazy Germans, isn't it? "Why do you need a radio? The engine is all the music you need." Some days I'd agree, but some days in Southern California commuter traffic I'd disagree.
Automobile Magazine, Nov. 2002: 330Ci, 225-hp, 5-speed, 3360 lbs, 0-60 in 5.9 sec., 1/4 mile in 14.6 sec.; G35, 280-hp, 6-speed, 3460 lbs., 0-60 in 6.0 sec., 1/4 mile in 15.1 sec.
Car and Driver, July 2002: 330Ci, 225-hp, 5-speed, 3357 lbs., 0-60 in 5.8 sec., 1/4 mile in 14.4 sec.; Acura 3.2CL Type S: 260-hp, 6-speed, 3481 lbs., 0-60 in 5.9 sec., 1/4 mile in 14.6 sec.
In both cases, the Acura and the Infiniti seem to have the advantage in gearing and, more importantly, much better hp/weight ratio. 100 lbs of curb weight (less than a tank of gas) shouldn't negate a 35 to 55 hp advantage. Yet the 330Ci actually beats both in a heads-up comparison (though by a very small margin). Seems to me that the Acura and, to a much larger degree Infiniti, are padding their hp numbers a bit and BMW is rating theirs quite conservatively. Given the gearing, weight, and hp comparisons, this is the only conclusion I can come to. I would love to see all three of these cars run on a dyno to expose the true rear-wheel hp numbers.
Hmmmm, I will take a crack at that, mind you, this could be called "Educated speculation". From having spent over four years driving behind a BMW I6 engine, my guess is that the BMW engines have a broader power band than do the others, by that I mean that the V6 engines from Infiniti and Acura may well produce more power within a certain range (say 4000-4700 RPMs), outside that range, the BMW engines may well be more powerful. Another way of saying that is that, while the Infiniti and the Acura may be faster between any two given speed ranges (say 45-50 for instance, the BMW engine is able to provide greater prolonged acceleration than the other two, thus giving it the edge against (seemingly) stronger competitors. What do you think?
Best Regards,
Shipo
I know no one asked, but I just have to say this: Carsdirect is such a great service. It has singlehandedly empowered so many consumers who otherwise would have been ripped off. Since I negotiate for a living, I look forward to car shopping, but my wife and my mom absolutely DREAD the experience. For them, Carsdirect.com is an absolute boon.
white6: BMW always seems to pad their numbers a bit (The E36 M3's 0-60mph time was listed as something around 5.9 seconds when it always tested in the low to mid 5s). Some other manufacturers seem to pad their numbers as well. So you're right on both counts.
Another thing you have to consider is who the car's primary target is. BMWs are still built for Germans who prefer more power and stability at the high end. The fact that Americans (200,000+ per year) buy them for badge snobbery or performance doesn't matter to BMW. It really takes a true car person to enjoy all that a BMW has to offer.
Cars like the G35 and Acura TL Type S are Japanese cars that are built pretty much for the USA. They carry a luxury nameplate, lots of standard features (the only option on a TL Type S is Navigation) and along with an abundance of low and mid range power (many Americans still have to be the first person to the next red light).
I'm not sure if I ever mentioned this, but there was a gorgeous Imola Red w/ Alacantra & Cloth Interior 330i Performance Package at the NY auto show. There was a guy who I actually heard saying: "I can't believe $45 grand for a Beemer and It don't even have Leather. What a rip off."
freespec: I'm not sure whether you're a serious poster or a troll. You make some pretty lengthy comments to just be trolling. The only comment I have to make is that Japaness is spelled J A P A N E S E.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Phauol, when you head down to Weatherford, take a look at the pre-owned M3 convertible I saw yesterday in Imola Red / Black they have in. Only 4500 miles on it, it's got EVERYTHING except SMG (which I don't want anyway)... asking $52,700. Only thing is that it's not certified, but persoanlly all that means to me is that you can potentially save a few thousand if it checks out mechanically. Presumably you can do a bit better on price than that before buying, but either way, $52,700 seems like a raging price.
If I didn't already have one... wow, that's a car. It's not AWD, but oh well...
However my G35 auto would only do 0-60 in about 7.0 sec. That's under ideal conditions: sea level, 50F, 1/8 tank of gas, traction control off, brake torque launch. By comparision my 330i SP 5-speed does 0-60 in about 6.2 sec under the same conditions. Even a 330i automatic will generally do 0-60 in less than 7.0 sec.
It's the difference between peak HP/torque, and the area under the curve. Imagine a theoretical engine that produced 500 HP, but only from 6000-6500 rpm. Above and below that narrow rpm range, it produced only 50 HP.
With a conventional manual or automatic transmission, that car will accelerate much slower than an otherwise identical car with a 300 HP engine that's flat from 1000 to 7000 RPM.
That's an extreme example but it illustrates why a car with lower peak HP and torque, but a broader HP/torque curve, can out accelerate a car with higher peak numbers.
Now if the the two cars both had identical CVTs (continuously variable transmissions), which maintains the engine at peak power as the car accelerates, the higher horsepower car would certainly win.
I traded it for the 330i. The depreciation hit was massive, probably around $6000. You don't want to do this. However I have arthritis and while the G35 seemed comfortable on short drives, on longer drives it hurt my back and neck. Also it had a few little nagging issues like a transient wheel vibration problem that couldn't be corrected, despite many efforts. It was probably an early production problem, and despite my experience I maintain the G35 is generally a good car.
The G35 sedan isn't a "hot" item in Seattle. They are very available, with many at each dealer I've seen.
While I dearly loved my '01 325, it is clearly no match for the G35 in terms of muscle.
The only performance advantage my 325 had over my G35 was driving in the twisties above 7/10's. Unfortunately for me, I was only able to realize it's maximum potential infrequently.
In my every day life my G35 has proven to be a much better value in that it is more comfortable, much quicker & more dependable while still handling great.
Only time will tell what a relative resale comparison will be. While the G35 is nice, it certainly has it's share of quirks. The climate control and manumatic transmission are not even close to the quality & functionality of the BMW.
We are all very fortunate to be able to choose between two such great cars.
Everbody wins because you can't go wrong.
joes230:
That trade in must have been brutal!!
Great deal, great car. The low, used car price, along with the new car rate and residual made it all work.