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BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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  • I have an 02 330i with a Nav system. I, too, got it because I wanted it. No other logical reason. Sure does look cool with the aluminum trim and black lthr interior. Having had no previous nav system from which to compare, I am fairly happy with mine. I would want one with every car from here on out. That being said, although BMW just switched to DVD for 03, I have a friend with a 02 Camry with the factory Lexus touch screen Nav system. It is nicer than mine. Has nicer functionality. And the touch screen ups the cool-factor ante. My system does get lost once in awhile particularly when I'm on the freeway, it will tell me I'm on a city street.

    I do agree with seivwrig, go find a BMW tester with Nav and play with it for awhile. Decide for yourself. It'll get you where you're going, but it may not be quite as fun punching in the destination.
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    You got me all wrong, if the car had a 4 banger I would never buy it, but if it has a 2.2l inline 6 with double vanos, then on a smaller car like the 3-series, it wouldn't be too bad. I only buy cars with sticks so I could get the most out of the power in the car. I agree, for a wagon, the desiel would definitely be a better choice. But man, I would love to have a 320Ci coupe. It would have great handling, I am sure the engine is lighter so the car would be a little lighter (mind you, it is still quite heavy for its size). But I am sure it would have more than enough grunt to move in the streets and freeway with no problem.
  • Item # 1875976011 is 2002 topaz blue. pretty nice pictures
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    Yes, the 320i is a six-cylinder. The 316i and 318i are 4-cylinders. 318d and 320d are four cylinder diesels. The 320 Ci with the manual is no snail. It is as faster as a 325 Ci with the slushbox. 320Ci/man: 0-62mph:8.1 sec 325Ci/auto: 0-62mph:8.3 mph. There is only a 20 kg weight difference.

    Riez: the 520i Touring article is in the 2/02 Bimmer and the 5er Touring comparison is in the 10/02 Bimmer. Also, for those interested. The most popular in Europe (in terms of numbers) Bimmer, the 318i can be found in Bimmer 6/02.
  • rghesselrghessel Posts: 122
    Thanks for your thoughts about your Nav system. I've already resigned myself to the fact that no Nav system I get will be remotely comparable to the Lexus (which from what I've read is leaps and bounds above the competition). But, the Lexus is otherwise BORING, so I'm considering my first BMW. (And thank you for making a post about the Nav system without the usual rand about how much of a waste of money it is. I already KNOW that...but I want it. Personally, I think chrome wheels are waste of money, but there are those who would bludgeon me for saying so. To each his own...
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    <<< Is interesting that the 330i fuel economy stats are superior to the 325i. >>>

    The difference is very minor and it is probably due to the fact that the 325 manual is geared more aggressively and runs at higher RPM's per equivalent speed.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    In a country where 93% of all drivers choose a slushie, a 170-HP 3-series won't sell too well... Not to mention that unlike Europe, badging here is very prominent.
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    unlike Europe, we aren't taxed on displacement.

    so why send a boy to do a man's job?

    -Colin
    wants a 5.5L v12...
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    lol... You hit the nail on the head!! I forgot about that - it also explains why turbos aren't nearly as popular here.
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    I would think that aside from the horsepower deficiency, many people would be willing to buy a 320i inline 6 with 170 Hp. The reason is, everything else that comes with it. I am sure that the torque numbers would feel close to 200 ft/lbs even if they weren't. I am sure that all the features and handling would be near or at the top of the heap if they would sell the car for about the $24-27k range (taking off $2.5-4k for engine displacement and missing features that the 325 and 330 would have). I think it would be better than the C1 that is suppose to be coming out.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    You have hit the nail on the head. The taxing on displacement and CO2 (in the UK) will definitely affect your car purchase. I just can't see the Series 1 selling in the US, but when I think of Brave's statement on badge conscienceness. The Series 1 might sell too well despite the 320i would make more sense then a Mini sized BMW (Series 1). I guess some of the points made lead to why we will not see a lot of European models. Thanks colin and brave. I guess I was not thinking. (my wife would say that I don't think at all)
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    Do you think the Series 1 will come to the US at all? I was wondering since I haven't really seen it but assume it will be at the Detroit International Auto Show this year and I hope to attend. I will hopefully get a first time glance at what its true dimensions are. Like I was saying before, I would think that a 320i or 320ci would make for a great car hear, especially with the market of young buyers buying those MB coupes for around $25.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    The 1er is definitely coming to the US. BMW NA intends for it to serve as a "conquest" vehicle by bringing new buyers into the BMW fold that can later be moved upmarket into the 3er and 5er. The last two attempts-the E30 318is/318i and the E36/5 Compact-sold quite well but ended up siphoning existing BMW buyers away from more profitable models.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    div2-I was afraid that the 1er was a definite. Like I said before, it seems as though it would make more sense to sell the 316i/318i/320i then another small car like the Mini. I don't the specs for the CS1, but it seeems smaller than the Mini. I cannot make any sense of a 1er or 2er in the US. The 4er (3er cabrio/coupe) is already going to send people for a loop.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Well, BMW hopes to be able to position the 1er as a "real" BMW-complete with RWD and an eventual choice of four and six cylinder Valvetronic engines. I don't think that it's smaller than the Mini, but I could be wrong. I was told that BMW is not offering the E46 Compact in the US because it would have to sell for close to the same price as an equivalent sedan. Couple that with the the fact that "hatchback" has downmarket connotations in the US and the new ti was toast before it ever arrived here. Me, I'd like a 330d.
  • Navigation is a valuable asset for anyone considering European Delivery unless they are multi traffic sign lingual. We found it very difficult to convert/understand signage especially in Italy.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Posts: 388
    div2-The price is not that great on the compact. But my wife would probably kill me if I purchased a 1er (if it is similarly sized to the Mini). I think I would buy a Miata or MR2 before a 1er. It will probably be priced over $20K and lacking in HP. I think we will be able to determine more about the engines that the 1er will get once the E60s are released in October 2003. The 3er and 5er normally used the same six cylinder engines. The 1er will probably be 4-cylinder and would need a longer bonnet to allow an inline-6. I just don't feel good about this 1er but it will sell in the US because of the badge. As far as hatchbacks, how is the M-B C230 selling? Does Audi still plan to sell the A3 in the U.S. market? Considering how well the Baby Benz (190E) sold, could we possibly see M-B trying to push some of those other 4-cylinder Benzes in the U.S. when the 1er is released? With BMWs looking more Banglized, will Lexus, Infiniti and Acura sell even more cars in the future? Things that make you go, 'Hmmmm!'
  • jmessjmess Posts: 677
    I really like the looks of the 1 series hatchback/wagonback design. The utility of the this config would be a big sell to me over something like a Miata or MR2. With the right torque/HP to weight ratio, a 1 series could an entertaining car to drive if it had some traditional BMW handling goodness built in.

    I think the problem with the C-230 is the sticker shock of the option packages; it jumps to +$30K really fast. If BMW can't keep the price of a well equipped 1 Series south of $30K they are going to have some real problems. A new Accord EX coupe with a V6 might not have the feel of the C-230 but it is faster and fully equipped for less money than a stripper C-230. A lot of first time buyers would probably pay a $2K premium for a well equipped BMW 1 series but not $4K+.

    When I was car shopping I also checked out the C-230. After visiting two Benz dealers it was obvious that sales folks I dealt with didn't know how to sell the car or really want to sell it. They were much more comfortable showing me an E series than something that has a base price under $30K. I think BMW will have the same problem, unless they can convince the sales force there really is an upside to selling cars with much smaller margins; new BMW customers. The trouble with long term results, they often don't pay the bills in the short term. Sales folks tend to live for the moment?
  • skobolaskobola Posts: 207
    An uninsured driver rear-ended me just before X-Mass. Now I will have to pay my deductible, rental cost and I do not know how to recover the cost of that... Do I have to sue him, and how to do that (because the phone he provied to the police has been diconnected). My insurance company's appraiser estimated repairs to be around $8,000, but BMW service said that it will be about $10,000. I am affraid that the car will never be the same, and am actually scared to get into it because I do not believe that it would sustain to bear yet another such collision. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    About how hard did he hit you. I would think getting hit from the rear, that it would be rather easy to have damage reach the $8-10k mark due to the price of some of the OEM parts like rear lenses and stuff back there. Also, did it break the battery? That could cause a whole nother world of trouble. If it is mostly cosmetic, I would think that the car would be safe after being repaired. I am not sure what state you live in, but that will determine what you must do to recoup your money. In Michigan we have what is called broadform collision. It means that if you are hit, you don't pay anything. But on that same note, no matter what kind of accident is was, your insurance pays for your car. They never pay for the other persons car except if you were at fault and you have plain insurance without collision. In that case, your insurance will pay $500 to the other person.
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    quote: Like I said before, it seems as though it would make more sense to sell the 316i/318i/320i then another small car like the Mini. I don't the specs for the CS1, but it seeems smaller than the Mini. I cannot make any sense of a 1er or 2er in the US.

    A small, light RWD car is a GOOD THING. The 3-series has grown into quite a porker, regardless of how much you (we) love it and more importantly, how well it sells. An underpowered 3-series makes no sense and would not sell in any quantity compared to a light, small, and properly powered 1-series.

    I'd buy one, provided Chris Bangle doesn't make it heinously ugly.

    -Colin
  • skobolaskobola Posts: 207
    Thanks for your response, mseals. Nothing was really broken except the rear bumper, but the fenders and rear trunk lid bent and the trunk's floor rose 8" higher than it was; the trunk appeared to be significantly shallower than before. So they will have to do some serious stretching, I guess. I was even told that they might cut the rear and weld another, new one in there! Also, muffler was on the road, however, still hanging. That was what one could see. I was not able to close the trunk once it was opened over there on the site of accident. The front bumper was pressed under the hood for about 1" and it went wide on each front wheels' wells for about 3/4" wide. The insurance decided to repair the car, and I am afraid of any structural damages and misalignment to the geometry of the car will remain, as well as if the front airbags will properly function after all this is repaired.
    Considering Florida laws, I was told that I would have to pay my insurance's deductible, and that I am not supposed to be penalized by higher rate, as the accident was not my fault. In addition, I will have to pay for rental, which will total about $1,500 out of my pocket. I am trying to find a way to get that money back, and as I do not know any attorney, I was wondering if there is an association or alike that helps to deal with victims of uninsured motorists... Also, the interesting thing was that although the guy sad that he "head a couple" to the police officer, he did not ticket him for DUI, just for reckless driving. I filed a complaint to the police department for that, and that is still being processed as most of them were on vacation during X-Mass and New Year holidays. Although the drunk guy got lucky for the holydays (for not being fined for GUI), certainly it was not Merry X-Mass and Happy New Year to me!
    However, I wish all you people a Merry and Happy holidays and on!!!
  • tenet1tenet1 Posts: 354
    Sorry to hear about your exeperience. In most states, not having insurance and getting into an accident usually means that the uninsured walks away for nothing while the hard working honest man/woman that pays high insurance rates gets to go throught the headache of fixing their vehicle and paying even higher rates.

    Driving is a privilege and not a right, they say. I dont see that being put to practice.
  • msealsmseals Posts: 257
    I hear what you are saying about uninsured motorist, but here in Michigan (one of the true no fault states for insurance), the maximum you can sue for an auto accident for vehicular damage is $500. This law was designed years ago to keep lawyers from getting sue happy for accidents. What is also did was raise the insurance premiums to cover a car for collision, theft, glass and fire. That being said, if someone hits my car, my insurance pays for it, regardless of if they are insured or not.
  • vkwheelsvkwheels Posts: 218
    Hi Bing330i who did you end up going to for the service? I heard very good things about Crevier and very bad things about Irvine. I'm at 9K now. Everything's been just fine, except I can't get my rear seats to click back securely into place after having them down. But getting my bike in there was no problem.

    Hope u'all had a nice holiday season, happy new year!
  • tenet1tenet1 Posts: 354
    You live in one of those states where the law is sensible and works. In VA there is a $500 (or close) fee for uninsured drivers. I dont think that this money will make it into your hands if you get hit by the uninsured driver. Just extra revenue for the state, i guess.

    Either way, knowing that some jackass hit your car and will raise your rates while ensuring that your car will never be the same is bad enough.
  • I just got my lease statement and inside was a promo for a new performance package for the 330I starting with cars sold this spring. It sounds almost like an M sedan model. 0-60 in about 6 seconds and all sorts of extra goodies. (You can read about it on the BMW web site). Any ideas of how much this will add to the price? Also, can anyone tell what the difference in performance and feel would be to a real M3? Sound interesting doesn't it?
  • Well, BMW hopes to be able to position the 1er as a "real" BMW...[yet]...I was told that BMW is not offering the E46 Compact in the US because it would have to sell for close to the same price as an equivalent sedan. Couple that with the the fact that "hatchback" has down market connotations in the US and the new ti was toast before it ever arrived here.

    I almost bought a TI, but decided not to for two reasons. The first was its poor power (torque) for its weight. The second was the ambivalent salesmen. The latter has also been an issue with the C230, which I experienced firsthand; comment further below.

    - - -

    [The 1er] will probably be priced over $20K and lacking in HP...I just don't feel good about this 1er but it will sell in the US because of the badge. As far as hatchbacks, how is the M-B C230 selling?

    From what I've heard, the C230 started strong, then fell off. I suspect that the 1er will be similar: strong initial sales the first year, partly due to its badge, but falling off strongly due to inherent shortcomings. Which sounds like will be in the same mold as the 95-98 318ti: lack of power for the market niche. It seems that they don't understand that if you're trying to make a luxury hot hatchback that its got to have some "hot" in it :-) FWIW, I recall that the '95 TI had less grunt in it than my '84 VW Scirocco (8v 1.8).

    - - - - - -

    I think the problem with the C-230 is the sticker shock of the option packages; it jumps to +$30K really fast.

    Absolutely. The only reasonably good value option on the C230 is the $750 wheel package, because of its underdocumented "other bits".

    ...After visiting two Benz dealers it was obvious that sales folks I dealt with didn't know how to sell the car or really want to sell it.

    Its low profit compared to what they're used to. They're used to saying to a buyer "CD Player and Cellphone?" and the customer says Yup even without asking what the price is. Purveyors of the lineage of Hot Hatchbacks will ask what the price is, and go blatant rip-off's(such as the $1800 cellphone for the C230) will push them out of the door.

    Overall, I personally believe that there's a good niche market for a frugal version of an M-class type hatchback. Simplistically, all that's required is to take the existing M Hatch and cut the fancy amenities out of it (and okay, even some horses) to get it from $45K down to ~$30K.

    -hh
  • markjennmarkjenn Posts: 1,142
    According to a post on bimmer.org (which is supposedly based on the BMW press kit):

    The PP runs $3,900 which includes the six-speed (which is now the standard manuual on the 330i), higher hp engine, short-throw shifter, new final drive ratio, revised speed limiter, M suspension, new 18" wheels, new M body trim stuff, and the special alcantra interior with lots of bits and pieces.

    I don't think it includes any luxury/premium package stuff like full leather, sunroof, upgraded stereo, xenons, etc. although these items are still orderable.

    With destination, base price of a PP 330i will be slightly over $39K.

    All-in-all, about as expected - apples to apples vs. a current sport-package, 18" wheel 330i, it is about a $2K bump.

    I'd expect it to sell quite well - there has always been a demand for a $9K cheaper 4-door M3 without the problematic 333-hp engine.

    - Mark
  • BMW just extended my warranty on the 2003 M3 for the engine to 6years/100k. This is a standard policy now because of the unexpectedly higher failure rate in the 3.246 liter engine.

    I applaude the performance package on the new 330, but $9k seems very little to pay for the thrill of getting the 333 horses. There are few cars that can generate the kinds of smiles you get when you are really laying on it in second and third gears in the M3. You only live once. If you live a disciplined life and money is not too important to you then just pull the trigger and get the M3.

    I will again say that there was something beautiful and unique about the 5 speed in the 330 that I loved. I wish the performance package didn't take that 5 speed away. (I liked it more than the 6sp in the M3)

    BTW: you must all go and drive the Z4. Unbelievable. It generated the same feeling for me as my M3 for a lot less. I loved it, but I need a more practical car (We take family trips in the M3--put the kid seat in the back and pack the trunk full--it is great).
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