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BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

1849850852854855974

Comments

  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    can be rotated b/t left & right.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "Then again, I'm prone to wearing torn jeans, old t-shirts and in general offering enough of a juxtaposition that someone has the gall to ask at least once a month if my 330i is actually my car."

    I went one step further, even my well-maintained '90 Protege has un-repaired dents & missing wheel covers.

    Each time I used to park my car, whether it was the '90 Protege LX, '93 Camry SE or '98 Corolla LE, near the Mexican border, the parking attendant always asked for "$5" in English whether my stereo was on or not. But if I happened to leave on a Spanish station w/ the language broadcasted, then the attendant would ask me for the $5 in Spanish, since he probably couldn't see my face from where he was standing anyway.

    After I restored the '84 Jetta coupe, which doesn't got a radio, I decided to give it a try to see how well it drives down there. Eventhough the Mexican-market Mexican-buit old Jetta(Atlantic) is a 4-dr, that attendant would ask me for the $5 in Spanish.

    The funny part is how I came back northbound by the check point at night. The border patrol officer, who usually waves my notchback vehicles to go through, couldn't tell by the front view of the car that my Jetta is a made-in-WestGermany coupe. So he wanted me to stop. & just before I stopped, he probably saw me wearing a pair of nerdy glasses, so he decided to let me through.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I'm not too sure you want to hear what I'm about to tell you, however, due to the more aggressive suspension setup of the SP equipped cars, the tires wear faster and more unevenly than they otherwise should. What is even more discouraging, as they wear, they get noisy(er). I have heard any number of reason for the noise ranging from Cupping to different rubber compounds deeper into the tread that don't ride as smoothly or as quietly as the outer rubber. Whatever the reason, I have heard many noise related complaints from folks who drive cars (not just BMWs) with the lower profile/higher performance tires. :-/

    I just went over to the 5-Series board and queried "tire noise" and got 72 hits, and over on the "Tires, tires, tires" board the same query generated 172 responses.

    Regarding your question about rotating your 330i SP tires; I don't think it's possible because I suspect that you have unidirectional tires.

    Looking at this problem from a different angle, I suspect that if those of us who drive SP equipped cars were to drive them closer to the edge more of the time and on nice winding roads at that, the tires would wear more evenly. Failing that, at least they would wear out faster so that we wouldn't have to put up with the noise as long. :-/ Maybe you should take a few driving courses and start racing, after all, why should Paul Newman be the only septuagenarian out there on the track. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • mitchs3mitchs3 Posts: 64
    My 2002 330i sedan also has a noise as well. More noticeable when driving after the car has been sitting a while. A rubbing type sound that varies with speed and with the angle of the steering wheel. The dealer has investigated a few times and cannot hear noise or find any pathology.... Any thoughts? The notion of tire cupping is new to me , what is this?
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    I'll be the first to admit that when it comes to good sex, personality and flirting go a loooong way. Call me superficial but looks do matter a lot too ;o)
  • brislance1brislance1 Posts: 87
    Shipo,

    Thanks for the answer on my tire noise. Guess I will just tune up the radio and forget the noise.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, thinking out loud (on the keyboard that is), I doubt that your problem is tire related. My guess is that you might be hearing your brakes, and that could be because of a couple of different reasons. So, before I start speculating too much, could you possibly provide a little more information about your car?

    Do you have the SP or is it running on All-Season tires?
    Have you had the brakes done recently?
    If not, how many miles are on the brakes?
    How hard do you drive?
    How loud is the noise when you do hear it?
    Is the noise louder turning in one direction versus the other?
    Can you detect any extra wear near the outer edges or shoulders of any one tire?

    As for "Cupping", it's kind of hard to describe; kind of like someone took a shallow spoon and scooped away a portion of your tread at regular intervals all of the way around the tire, typically at or near the shoulder of the tire. When it gets bad enough, your tires generate a woop-woop-woop kind of noise as you are driving along. I looked for a picture on the internet; however, I was unable to find one that obviously illustrated the phenomena.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    No problem. ;-)

    Hey, how about those racing lessons?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,492
    One other thing... If two tire shops suggested you rotate your tires on a staggered set-up... time to find a new tire shop.

    As Shipo says.. performance tires tend to get noisy after just a little wear.. Also, your rear tires are going to wear faster than the fronts, and it is likely that your right rear will wear faster than your left rear. I took off my summer tires right after I bought my car in December with 8300 miles, and you could already tell the wear differences (non-staggered, 325i Sport package).

    If you are fairly happy with your tires.. (not withstanding the noise), then you can replace just the rear tires and possibly get another 10K-15K miles out of the fronts. But, most people tend to want a whole new set, once the rears wear out.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • cotmccotmc Posts: 1,081
    I have had the same tire noise problem with my '00 528i with the sport package. The allignment of the wheels with our sport suspensions is not completely "neutral". If I remember correctly, BMW sets up their sport packages with negative camber. This causes the inner portion of the tread to wear more than the rest of the tire, resulting in cupping along the inside tread. (This assumes you are not racing the car, taking high-g turns, etc!) Usually it takes about 8-10K miles before the noise begins to grow. The noise isn't too bad at 65mph, but it becomes very irritating when driving along at 35-45mph!

    A friend of mine recently tried something that seems to make sense, which I will try after my new set of tires starts getting noisy. As shipo mentioned, the tires are typically unidirectional, and so you can't just rotate the wheels between the left and right sides. However, you could have the tire shop dismount the tires and remount them with the exact same orientation on the opposite side of the car. In other words, picture the tire "sliding" from the left side over to the right side, without changing directions. Now, what was previously the inner edge of the tire, with cupping, is on the outside edge! There will likely still be some noise, but because the outside edge doesn't have as much of the weight during low-speed driving, you should notice some improvement.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I thought of that idea and then abandoned it a moment later. Why? Not because it's not fairly easily done but because, at least on my car, not only are my tires unidirectional, but they also have an asymetrical tread pattern with one side meant to be on the outer edge of the wheel. :-(

    Consider the following picture:

    image

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I'll be the first to admit that when it comes to good sex, personality and flirting go a loooong way. Call me superficial but looks do matter a lot too ;o)

    Ya lost me. What does that have to do with a car?
  • bing330ibing330i Posts: 89
    The Conti Sports tires on my 02 330i SP around 10k miles became so annoying that I simply replaced them with a set of Michelin Pilot Sports A/S. It has been quite since then, still good and quiet at current 34k miles.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Why all the worry? We all know that the aggressive suspension set up of the 3 and 5 Series lead to increased tire wear and eventually noise (pretty much regardless of tire manufacturer). No big deal. Buy a new set of tires.

    As AAA's annual survey points out, depreciation and insurance are the two most expensive costs to operate your car. And don't forget gasoline. Cost of tires doesn't even come close.

    If you can afford to buy your BMW and afford to put tankfuls of premium unleaded in it, you can afford to buy a new set of tires after 20-30 miles.

    What did the Eagles say? Get over it?
  • cotmccotmc Posts: 1,081
    "If you can afford to buy your BMW and afford to put tankfuls of premium unleaded in it, you can afford to buy a new set of tires after 20-30 miles."

    I've been purchasing new sets of tires after 12K and 14K miles of wear, but buying a new set of tires every 20-30 miles seems a bit excessive. ;>)

    shipo: Excellent point regarding asymmetrical tires! My friend must have had a symmetrical tread pattern on his tires.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I'm on pace to spend about 1k a year on tires. That easily exceeds what my insurance costs me on the 330i - about $800 a year.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,492
    Yeah... I've had mine for less than five months.. Already spent $730 on winter tires, then $1170 for a set of M68s with new Pilot Sports.. Even at $2.00/gallon, I've spent less than $600 so far on gas.

    Even if you are Warren Buffett, maintenance costs matter. Whether I can afford a 3-series or a 7-series, every dollar spent on the car could be used for something else.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Costs have to be figured on a per mile basis.

    cotmc... 20-30=20,000-30,000. I forgot the "k".

    kyfdx... How much have you spent on insurance? What do you think your depreciation has been? There are a lot of great tires that are less expensive than the Pilot Sports. They are great tires, but when I did a price/useable performance comparison with my former 540i6, I went with less expensive ContiSportContact 2s. Choosing a different tire could've saved you as much as $250 or more, just on the summer tires. Bet you could've spent a lot less on the winter tires, too, and still had a great tire.

    blueguydotcom... How many miles a year are you driving? Does your cost include snow tires, too? Snow tires should last 2-3 seasons.

    Best thing you can do tire-wise is an annual 4-wheel alignment and balance.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Don't think BMW is alone. When I bought my '04 IS300, think there were 2 stickers on the exterior of the car warning about possible low tire tread life (under 20k). Think the issue was also mentioned about 4 or more times in the full-color sales brochure. Lexus went out of its way to warn prospective buyers that a serious sport sedan isn't designed to prolong tire wear. (Lexus has the ES300 for that.)

    BMW might want to do the same so no one can say they are surprise about how the car treats tires.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    How many miles a year are you driving? Does your cost include snow tires, too? Snow tires should last 2-3 seasons.


    I put 15k miles on my car in one year. Those are just replacing the stock tires. no winter/snow tires. I recently swapped back tires and that was over 500 clams. Fronts will run into the mid 400s and I need them too...just haven't bought them yet as I rarely drive the car now.

    As for gas...good lord. I've probably spent $1500 this year over 15k miles. Yep, every 10 miles is a buck.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,492
    Yeah, yeah... I know its not indicative of my per-mile costs.. And the Pilots were already on the M68 wheels I wanted. But, fuel costs and insurance for my 325i are really within 1 or 2 cents per mile of the Honda Accord I leased previously.

    Tires on the other hand..... We put 52K miles on our leased Honda Accord in three years, and the tires still passed inspection at turn-in. Even assuming we had to replace them at that point, our costs would have been less than 1 cent per mile. I think the 325i is going to be closer to 4 cents per mile just for tires.

    But, my point was, and is... It doesn't matter how expensive a car you can afford.. maintenance and repair costs matter. I see Carl Lindner every once in awhile driving his Bentley Arnage convertible.. I bet every time he takes it in for service, he's thinking that he could pay Ken Griffey's salary for a day, for what that dealer is charging him.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I've never gotten over 20k out of any tires on any car I've ever owned. :O
  • mitchs3mitchs3 Posts: 64
    My 2002 330i does not have sport pkg, so has Conti all season touring tires. This car actually has sport suspension though, right. I have 23k miles, original brakes and the noise has been there for about 7k miles. I drive moderate most of the time, though at times aggressively. I clearly notice the noise more when first starting out, but is most prominent when making turns to the right. I also suspect something rubbing with the brake. I noticed excessive tire wear on the right front, where I think the noise is emanating ... thanks for your thoughts..Mitch
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    mitchs3... Have you had the dealer take a look and listen? What have they said?

    When was the last time you did a 4-wheel alignment and balance? Rotate?
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    mitchs3... In MY2002, here are what the Sport Packages provided for the sedans:

    - 325i: Sport Suspension calibration, Sport Steering Wheel, Sport Seats, Star Spoke (Styling 96) alloy wheels, and 225/45R17 performance tires.

    - 330i: Sport Steering Wheel, Sport Seats, Front spoiler and side trim, rear apron and side trim, M double-spoke (Styling 68M) wheels, and 225/45ZR17 front and 2245/40ZR17 rear performance tires.

    The base 330i came standard with Sport Suspension calibration and 205/50R17 all-season tires (which can be easily rotated.)

    - 325xi: Sport Steering Wheel, Sport Seats, Radial Spoke (Styling 73) alloy wheels, and 205/50R17 all-season tires.

    - 330xi: Sport Steering Wheel, Sport Seats, Double Spoke (Styling 79), and Double Spoke (Styling 79) alloy wheels, and 205/50R17 all-seasons tires.

    All 330i came standard with Sport Suspension calibration.

    The xi, both 325xi and 330xi, did NOT come with Sport Suspension calibration, even if you ordered the Sport Pkg. All xi came with all-season tires, even if you ordered the Sport Pkg.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,492
    It was my wife's car... and we all know how you drive..LOL

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, based upon your post, I would pull both front brake calipers and carefully check the brake pads for "Squareness". I have seen pads wear so unevenly that they force the caliper out of alignment to such an extent that when I pulled the pads off of my 1999 328i, on the right side of the car, the top of one pad had no lining remaining (and mild scoring on the rotor as well) while the bottom had nearly 1/8 of an inch, the reverse was true for the opposite pad. On the other side, both pads were perfectly square.

    Let us know what you find out.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • webby1webby1 Posts: 209
    "All 330i came standard with Sport Suspension calibration."
    What exactly is Sport Suspension calibration ?
    Thanks,
    Webby
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Huh, x3 selling superbly? Uh, that's some weird spin as dealerships have a backlog of them. On bimmerfest some dealer guys are lamenting how they can't move the X3.
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