Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

1914915917919920974

Comments

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Uhhh, if you work out the cost of mounting and balancing twice per year, the buy back for a decent set of wheels is only about two years. Then again there is the time associated with making an appointment for the swap, driving your tires to the tire shop, waiting around for the actual swap, and then driving back home. If you have a complete wheel tire package, you can do the swap yourself in about a half of an hour. Combining the cost with the time and I decided that I cost justified my second set of wheels in less than a year.

    Regarding using Nokians all year round, that solution is at best a compromise, trading off maximum performance in both hot summer conditions and wintery conditions. The fact is that there is no such a thing as a year round tire that performs equally well in the snow as it does on hot dry pavement.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • derfoderfo Posts: 36
    Right on!!
    For winter tires, If you can afford a $35,000 to 45,000 machine, you should be able to afford a $400 set of wheels to put your snow tires on. If you can not afford the wheels, you should never of bought the BMW in the first place!! IMHO
  • grantchstrgrantchstr Posts: 371
    I went through the two sets of wheels and two sets of tires routine before - and learned from it. Its a hassle, I would rather have a pro change tires spring and fall - and that of course means rotation as well which apparently doesnt happen other wise. Cost isn't the determining factor.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    >I went through the two sets of wheels and two sets of tires routine before - and
    >I learned from it. Its a hassle...
    Let's see... it takes me all of @30 minutes to change all four wheels and tires on my 3er or 5er. Of course, I'm not a "pro", so instead of using an air wrench to tighten the lug bolts to 200 lb. ft. I use a calibrated torque wrench to tighten the bolts to factory specs(I've found that most tire shops don't even require their new hires to have opposable thumbs). I also don't get to flip through all the neat tire industry trade mags that lay scattered about the pro's customer lounge.
    Silly me; I guess I just haven't learned enough about BMWs yet... :P
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Cost isn't the determining factor."

    Fair enough, but in my case, time is. I spend about an hour per year dealing with swapping my tires. If I only had a single set of rims I would spend several times that number.

    There are other factors too, if you only have a single set of rims you must deal with the following issues:
    1) Extra time messing around waiting for the shop to do the job (as previously mentioned).
    2) Assuming wheels are sized for optimal summer driving (ie. greater diameter and width), you will then be forced into buying winter tires that will fit those larger and wider wheels, which are usually both more expensive AND less effective in the slippery stuff.
    3) All of the mounting and remounting takes its toll on the tires, and even to a certain extent on the wheels, potentially shortening their useful life.

    Then again there is the cost. In my case, I spent $1,007 ($500 for the wheels, the remainder was for the tires and the shipping) on my winter wheel set for my 2002 530i, which I had for exactly 36 months. In exchange for buying the set, I was able to avoid six trips to the local tire shop, at about $100 per trip for the mounting and balancing. I figure that I also saved myself between 5 and 7 hours per year dealing with the logistics of using a shop to remount the tires as opposed to doing it myself. Now that the car is gone coupled with the fact that my winter set will not fit on an E90, I have a perfectly good set of winter tires that I can sell to an E39 owner next fall for about $500. Speaking of the E39, when I had it inspected prior to lease end, the inspector told me that I wouldn't be charged for any new tires because the OEM Michelin Pilot Primacy tires all had more than enough tread on them. Had I not used the winter set for four months in each of the last three winters, I would have had to buy a second set of summer rubber at some point during the lease.

    Said another way, over the three years I had the 530i, I had three options regarding the tires (using 2005 TireRack.com dollars):

    1) Leave the OEM rubber on the car year round (replacing them when they wore out), and not drive the car when there was snow on the ground. Total cost: $930 (four new Michelin Pilot Primacy 235/45 R17 tires, plus shipping and mounting)
    2) Buy a set of 235/45 R17 winter tires and have them swapped for the OEM rubber every Spring and Fall. Total cost: $1,284 ($684 for four new Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 tires, and $600 for six trips to the tire shop for remounting and balancing)
    3) Buy a complete set of winter wheels and tires (225/55 R16 tires and 16 x 7.5 wheels), performing the tire swap in my driveway, and then selling them when the lease on the car is over. Total cost $430 ($930 for four Michelin X-Ice tires mounted on Borbet Type H wheels, -$500 reselling the winter set)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • gordonwdgordonwd Posts: 337
    I agree. Plus, every time you have your tires remounted on your rims, you run the chance of having your rims scratched by the mounting equipment or clumsy handling.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Excellent point; I don't want my rims to see a tire mounting machine any more than is absolutely necessary.
  • fmbmanfmbman Posts: 3
    This just made me remember something... since I only have to go to the dealer once per year, how does this effect tire rotation. I'm used to having the rotation being done, what... maybe twice per year. Is this an issue or am I thinking too much? :confuse:
  • grantchstrgrantchstr Posts: 371
    All of the mounting and remounting takes its toll on the tires, and even to a certain extent on the wheels, potentially shortening their useful life.

    This is true, however I reckon new snow tires can be used say for four winters before their effectiveness wears off (say 20,000 miles) - the question is will seven mountings/dismountings (you dont have to worry about the throwaway last one) result in an unsafe tire for that fourth winter?

    Then again there is the cost. In my case, I spent $1,007 ($500 for the wheels, the remainder was for the tires and the shipping) on my winter wheel set for my 2002 530i, which I had for exactly 36 months. In exchange for buying the set, I was able to avoid six trips to the local tire shop, at about $100 per trip for the mounting and balancing

    It costs me 11.95 for balancing - free mounting - and 2.95 for valve stems (are these REALLY necessary each time I wonder?) so that works out at an incremental $120 a year or $476 over 4 winters. And I reckon that I spend the same amount of time waiting in my car to get into the shop as I would jacking up the car four times for wheel changes (and it often works out that I cant get the friggen wheels off anyhow!).
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,217
    It might not... but, it sure raises the odds that you might have problems with it...

    If you'd rather not get other wheels, that is your prerogative... As you said, cost was not a factor for you... I doubt it is a big deal other than cost and time..

    I'm in the other camp... If I had to guess, I'd say popular opinion will be about 20 to 1 in favor of a second set of wheels..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • seqladyseqlady Posts: 59
    Found a 325i 2005 RWD, premium pkg, sport pkg, heated seats. List 34,670; dealer is offering 3,500 off bringing total price to 31,170. Invoice is listed as 31,775.
    Never bought a leftover new car before - what should we offer?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,217
    There is a $2500 dealer cash incentive on the '05 325i RWD.... If the invoice is $31,775.. then a good price would be $30K even.... $30,500 at most..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    Yes it can be changed. When we ordered our 2002 325xi we ordered the wood trim/Premium package. Since we had the nat brown leather, aluminum would look dumb. Well, it came with aluminum and no PP. We almost refused the vehicle, but they gave us most of the PP (except the sunroof that we don't miss) for free. They swapped out the aluminum trim for the wood trim wit hno problems whatsoever. Whether you can do it yourself depends on your skills and willingness to do it. I'd probably break every piece at least 3 times before I got it right I suspect. :)

    -Paul
  • seqladyseqlady Posts: 59
    Will let you know if it's accepted
  • beta23beta23 Posts: 15
    HA me 2... thanks alot... do you know how much that would cost though?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "This is true, however I reckon new snow tires can be used say for four winters before their effectiveness wears off (say 20,000 miles) - the question is will seven mountings/dismountings (you dont have to worry about the throwaway last one) result in an unsafe tire for that fourth winter?"

    Hmmm, I'm going to have to take issue with that one. My Michelin Arctic-Alpin tires have three seasons and probably 15,000 miles on them, and they still look practically new. I figure they're good for an easy 6 years and 30,000 miles.

    "It costs me 11.95 for balancing - free mounting - and 2.95 for valve stems (are these REALLY necessary each time I wonder?) so that works out at an incremental $120 a year or $476 over 4 winters."

    I have no idea where you are getting your tires done, but around here ain't nobody does free mounting, even if you bought the tires from them in the first place. The anomaly of your deal not withstanding, the "Real World" price for swapping tires on a set of rims is about $100 per set, twice a year.

    "And I reckon that I spend the same amount of time waiting in my car to get into the shop as I would jacking up the car four times for wheel changes..."

    Ummm, okay, but how long does it take you from the moment you walk out of your home to the moment you walk back in. In my case it's about a half an hour, twice per year. I'm having a difficult time believing that you can go out to your car, load the tires into it, fire it up and drive to the tire place, wait for them to swap the rubber, drive home and unload the car, all in a half of an hour, or even an hour for that matter.

    "...(and it often works out that I cant get the friggen wheels off anyhow!)."

    Ahhh, now we have another issue. As div2 touched upon yesterday, most (all?) tire shops in the world employ ham fisted mechanics who use a pneumatic impact wrench to mount your wheels. The effective torque on the lug bolts is often well over 200 lb-ft, which is almost two and a half times the torque called for in the BMW Owner's Manual. All of that extra torque can have a number of very nasty side effects, none of which I'm willing to live with. Side effects can include (but are not limited to):

    1) Damage to the (expensive) alloy wheel.
    2) Warping of the brake rotor, causing the pedal to pulse under braking (potentially dangerous, and expensive to fix)
    3) Inability to remove a wheel with the lug wrench in the event of a flat tire (annoying, time consuming, and potentially life threatening)

    If you absolutely insist on having someone else do your tire swap (and since you only have one set of wheels, you have no choice), please, do yourself a favor, buy a torque wrench and re-torque the lug bolts to 88.5 lb-ft, and of course remember to use the "Star Pattern".

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jim1395jim1395 Posts: 34
    since the topic is snow tires, i bought 4 brand new dunlop winter sport m2s for my 325i sport pkg. with only 4000 miles on them all 4 have bubbles on the inner side walls. bought them from tirerack and the size is the recommended 205/55-16 mounted on new 16 alum borbet wheels. i didn't get the raod haz ins. and the tire rack won't replace them. they say its road hazard, i say manufacturers defect. anyway not very happy. i also contacted dunlop and they had me bring it to a dealer who also said its due to road hazard. i think they told dunlop that just because i didn't buy them from him. what do you guys think road hazard or defect. 4 brand new tires on 4 brand new wheels on a brand new bmw.
  • grantchstrgrantchstr Posts: 371
    Ahhh, now we have another issue. As div2 touched upon yesterday, most (all?) tire shops in the world employ ham fisted mechanics who use a pneumatic impact wrench to mount your wheels. The effective torque on the lug bolts is often well over 200 lb-ft, which is almost two and a half times the torque called for in the BMW Owner's Manual. All of that extra torque can have a number of very nasty side effects, none of which I'm willing to live with.

    You are right about that, but are dealers any different? I wonder whether they use pneumatic impact wrenches as well.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Thinking that since you got 4 out of 4, that other folks most likely have had the same problem. With that in mind, I queried the web every which way I could, and came up with nuthin, zip, zero and nada. Like you I'm having a very difficult time believing that you somehow managed to blister four different tires from road hazards and not know about it. That of course leads me to believe that it is the tires themselves that are at fault. Unfortunately, without lots of other voices claiming the same problem, it is going to be a very steep uphill battle to prove the tires are at fault. :-(

    Maybe it would be best if you just bit the bullet and bought some new Michelin or Pirelli winter tires (anybody but Dunlop/Bridgestone/Firestone). Annoying? Truly. End of the world? Nope, it might just be one of those times when you need to move on. I feel your pain none-the-less.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "I wonder whether they use pneumatic impact wrenches as well."

    To be perfectly honest about it, I have no idea, and I'm not willing to find out any time soon. Having said that, my bet is that they too use a pneumatic impact wrench on the wheels. The sad fact is that the mechanic can turn more cars per hour that way, and that is how he/she gets paid. :-(

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 530ir1150r530ir1150r Posts: 263
    The BMW Dealer in Lexington charges an hour of labor to rotate and balance 4 tires. I know AAA can change a tire on the side of I-75 in 7 minutes. I hope the dealer uses hand tools. I have never heard an impact wrench.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,217
    Wow... that sucks...

    From personal experience, every tire dealer, zone rep, etc, etc, etc.. will say that every bubble is caused by a road hazard, every time.....

    So, I agree with shipo... just bite the bullet.. you are facing a losing battle, no matter what logic you have on your side, or whether we agree with you..

    Either that, or you drove through the mother of all pot-holes.. ;)

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • grantchstrgrantchstr Posts: 371
    One of the biggest rip-offs in the industry is the concept of dealers fixed number of labor hours for performed tasks. But if you use an independant mechanic do you void your warranty with a BMW? As a new owner I just read that BMW dealers are required. With one of my other cars this is not the case provided the mechanic is licensed and you have documentation of the service performed and parts used.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "As a new owner I just read that BMW dealers are required."

    Uhhh, where did you read that? As far as I know, you can use an independent, that said, there should be no reason (other than to mount dustless brake pads) to use anyone other than the dealer during the "Free Maintenance" period.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 530ir1150r530ir1150r Posts: 263
    There is (or was, I have not heard of it changing) a Federal Law that required auto manufacturers to provide free any service or maintenance required to maintain a warranty. How BMW defines warranty and unapproved parts and services will be between BMW and the owner.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,217
    Being required to perform the service.. and giving you a timely appointment and a loaner car may be two different things..

    I agree.. that most service departments don't care where you bought it.. But, if they want to be a pain in your..... they can be..

    Sure, we have an opening at Noon on June 17th... Sorry, no loaner car is available.... Your car is undriveable? We are very sorry to hear that.. See you on the 17th!!

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • grantchstrgrantchstr Posts: 371
    Sure, we have an opening at Noon on June 17th... Sorry, no loaner car is available.... Your car is undriveable? We are very sorry to hear that.. See you on the 17th!! OUCH

    You mean BMW dealers dont have mobile service vehicles? I also have an S60 and - the Volvo dealer has a mobile service truck which one can request for a "house call" - not that that has been needed in four years.
  • 530ir1150r530ir1150r Posts: 263
    Where I see this heading is sealed cars and only the dealer capable of working on them, on anything. Think of the razor blade model with a leased razor, or the opposite, an expensive razor with "free" razor blades.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,217
    Porsche Boxster... you have to put it on a lift to even see the engine...

    But, the tool I have the best luck with is my checkbook.. I know my competencies... and working on cars isn't any of them...

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • ventureventure Central PAPosts: 461
    The UPS driver was standing in my garage about 10am and there are four tires and wheels here from TireRack.com. All mounted and balanced for "free".

    They sure are pretty. :D

    All for less than $1,000 delivered.

    2014 Fusion, 2013 Impreza, 2011 Forester

Sign In or Register to comment.