BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

brave1heart

Maybe it is a good thing that you are insulted. It seems like it gave you the incentive to briefly touch the performance topic for that wonderful M3 (first time). So far, your only contribution has been questions about cleaning the car and getting rid of smudges. Although the lace dollies under the tires was a good suggestion and I'm currently secretly looking at some of my wife's underwear for ideas. Please, keep us informed - we'd like to know about maintaining the luster of the dashboard in cloudy weather (I forgot if you take it out when cloudy or was it rain only).

Yes, those wheels are difficult to clean - I can see you've been getting educated at the other board too.

BTW, the round headlights Integra-style are only on the new 3-series compact, which is the replacement for the 318ti.

brave1heart

I can see the synthetic oil change at 15K but I still don't get the tire rotation. I'm going with what the engineers recommended, though. Can't go wrong with the engineers - right, burrsr?

dhanley

I tried the is300... Some mags have drooled over it, and some have panned it.. I fall in on the panning side. As a lexus, i'd expect it to be reliable ( but you never know ). But it just didn't feel that fast to me, and it didn't seem to handle that well. The car seemed nice and tight, but i thought the interior was tacky, tacky, tacky. Silly shiny chronograph gauges, fake drilled pedals, a chroem bakk shifter on an automatic.. etc.. I hated the suede interior leather. I don't like clears. My 328 was a bit cheaper, and although used, i find it to be a much better driver's car, and a better deal in my mind.

HP vs HP can be very decieving. Even aside from how efficiently horsepower gets sent to the wheels, is the issue of where the HP is. I feel like my 328 has most of it's torque from 2000 to 6000 RPM. I can usually get the power i want as long as the engine is over 2000 RPM. A car with less torque and power to 5000 might have a power spike at 6,500 and have a higher total HP figure, but the car with power all over will be more satisfying to drive 99% of the time. For example, an s2000 motor has a higher total HP figure than the BMW 3.0L i-6, but if you put that honda engine in a 330, it would be awful. Most of that HP is NOT down in the sedate range--say 1,500-3,000 RPM. You need to hit 6,000 RPM for the power to come on. The 330 will have a lot more power up to 6,000 RPM. For any daily driving, and even most racing, the 3.0L is much better despite it's hp deficit.

Also, engines have an internal intertal resistance to changing RPM's and accelerating to some extent. So, the GM 3.8L or the mustang 3.8L get 205hp and 195hp respectively, but a BMW 2.8L with less HP will outrun it, because it's power is more spread out, and it can rev more freely. Plus, the ohc inline six just sounds SO much better. Even the new 2.5L will outrun those 3.8L, despite it's being almost 1/2 the size. It's even close in HP and torque--185hp, 175ft-lbs.

dave

ls11

So, when do we think we'll know something concrete about the 2002 3-series? I was planning on waiting until the new model year to buy, as I didn't want a new 2001 model to be considered a year-old car in September. But some of the pix we've been seeing make me think I should buy the 2001 b/c it looks better.

brave1heart

Honestly, if I had to give up one option on my car, that would be the HK - no doubt in my mind. The quality of sound really varies depending on what you're playing. If you're playing techno, it sounds great but anything with guitar and piano (mid-range) just gets lost and that's about 80-90% of the music kind of that I listen to. I mean it still has some serious depth of sound but there's just something missing from it. Don't feel bad about not getting it - you can always upgrade later if you want. Xenons over HK any day.

frank69m

I know exactly what you are talking about. The M3 runs like a bat out of hell in the low RPMs and the high RPMs. Compare it to the RX-7, I step on it and it goes nowhere, but when you get the RPM's up in the 5000-6500 Range, stand back as you will be pinned to the seat. I only use the Rx-7 on the weekends along with the 01 M3.

Oh, I decided not to give up the 330i and instead give it to my girlfriend.

M3 Frank

BTW, Braveheart, I do like cleaning my car so that is why I always talk abou this topic. Do you use Kleen Wheels? If so, do you like them? Do they cause any excessive heat to your brakes?

brave1heart

I haven't used them but Alp swears by them. He got them for $60 and has tested them successfully over a few thousand miles. My approach is whimsically low-tech - I bought a 3" paintbrush and I dust them off a couple of times a week. It takes me a minute to do it and I really don't mind it because I love looking at the wheels anyhow. BTW, the Star 44 wheels look bigger than any other stock wheels on the 2001 3-series because the spokes reach all the way to the end of the rim thus creating an illusive size effect. They look very sporty and classy. The only drawback (not a minor one either) is that they are very easy to scratch b/c of the length of the spokes. I hate to admit it but I put on a couple of scratches on them already (street parking). Anyone ever got the polish back on? How? C'mon, Frank, don't let me down - you should be an expert on cleaning by now.

jnscheong

My 330i is on order from Crevier. It is a Steel Grey with black leatherette, manual transmission, sports package, CD, and Xenon. Like I said, its current status is "waiting for transport".

The section of the 2 Fwy north of the 210 is very nice as well. During summer time, you can go for a picnic somewhere in the Angeles National Forest while having fun getting there.

jnscheong

brave1heart

Interesting posts - I really enjoyed reading them. dhanley - I know what you mean about spreading HP - we all get very caught up in the max HP number not even thinking that it is achieved typically at a level that most of us don't ever reach - 6,000 in the 325 and 5,900 in the 330. Your comparison to the S2000 was very appropriate and illustrates your example very well. It's not just the max HP; it's mostly how you get to it - i.e. wide torque band is always preferable. That's one more thing the 3-series is good at. I remember beating that Mustang 3.8 felt easy in my 325i and that was during the break-in, so I couldn't exceed the 4,500 RPM limit. Do you guys know how torque works with HP? I think HP is part of the equation used to derive torque but my little brain needs something more practical in terms of knowledge: assuming that HP is achieved near the top of the allowed RPM range, is there any benefit to achieving max torque at higher/lower revs? I mean, lower RPM torque peak is good in a way because you get to it fast but don't you give up some top end when the max torque is so low? Conversely, if the max torque is achieved at very high RPMs, the car would be too slow off the start. 3,500 sounds like a good compromise. Am I remotely close?

alpine325i

To Everyone: Buy the Kleen Wheels, you will be pleasantly surprised! The last time I cleaned my wheels was 3000 miles ago, and they're STILL CLEAN! with not one speck of disc brake dust on them, awesome product! So far I have 5600 miles on the car. I bought the car on 2/7/01. Alp )

brave1heart

Do you still go cruisin' at night?

frank69m

Don't know about the torque calculations, but my Rx7 has a peak torque of 217 at 5000 RPM and a peak horsepower at 6500-7000 RPM. It runs like a dog initially, but when I get going, it goes.

Here is what I noticed between the 99 M3 vs the 01 M3. It seems the 99 M3 has a little more power on the lower end (for some strange reason) when I first start off. Torque on the 99 pulls great initially, but I sure need to shift a lot more often than the 01 M3. I'm still don't have many miles on the 01 M3 so I haven't even revvvved it up to 7000 yet so I'm taking it easy. As I put on the first 700 miles, I'll update you more on performance on this baby as I get out of this gentle mode to racing mode.

Low and Mid end torque and high end horsepower is what you want.

kominsky

brave1heart - in your previous post to novcenthusiast you state emphatically that the steering issue is not road feel related. I beg to differ... I believe that in the January interim fix there was a change made to improve road feel (your car), but on earlier MY2001 cars (like mine), it is surely an issue.

brave1heart

You are right - I should have qualified my statement to say that at least on my car (went into production March 21), the issue is purely too much assist. Road feel and response are great and comparable to the original steering. BTW, you confused me with your "earlier MY2001 cars (like mine)" - I think you meant to say earlier 2001 models maybe? You got your car some time back in January, right?

alpine325i

(picking up megaphone) BUY THE KLEEN WHEELS!...I REPEAT!...BUY THE KLEEN WHEELS! LOL! The Kleen Wheels work great for my 16" Star Spokes. I sold the 19's because they were too big and bulky, the steering was getting screwed up, so I put the original 16's back on and the car rides perfect. I'm cooling out as far as mods go, except for the aftermarket stereo. The HK has the boom and sizzle, but no midbass whatsoever! I like the full bodied sound of a guitar and a piano. To get a full, rich, beautiful sound, you need top notch midbass drivers, like Boston Acoustic Pro's, or MB Quart's Q series, with about 75 watts going to each one. (end of sermon) )

brave1heart

Every time you do this you remind me of Pink Floyd' "The Wall" - "Waiting, to clean up the city; waiting to follow the worms"

Hey, is there any way to get cheap mid-bass? How much are these top notch midbass drivers, like Boston Acoustic Pro's, or MB Quart's Q series going for and can I hook them up to the HK?

kominsky

... earlier Model Year 2001 cars (like mine).
I got my car in February (Jan 12th production date)

alpine or brave1heart; Are Kleen wheels available for 17" wheels? I saw them on a webpage somewhere (can't remember where) and they only had them up to 16".

By the way, aren't both of you guys east-coasters too? Shouldn't you be in la-la land by now?

kominsky

I sent an email to these guys a couple of months back to see if I could plug their speakers into the existing H-K system. They told me that at a minimum I would need speakers and an amp. They also said they weren't sure if their stuff would be compatable with the 2001 head-units, but it was compatable with the 2000 units... I believe they are the same.

roc50mg

do you also post on the audi a4 board? are you waiting for an a4? just wondering cuz i was browsing through the a4 board the other day and saw your name there. are you a double agent?

carpevino

I finally made the decision and have my dealer searching for a 330i/Steel Blue or Grey. I'm kindof stuck hoping for a 5speed/sp/blk leather/moonroof but might have to settle for what he finds. I'm getting out of a lease and can't wait the two months for one to be built. My 2000 Maxima keeps dropping in resale value with the 1500 miles/month I average. What are the chances of them finding something in stock and do they really search around? I'm just wondering if they can't find something should I look to another dealer? Do they make less profit bringing in a vehicle from another dealer thus making them push for a to build order?

I hope being in the "Lon Gisland" area might give me a better chance.

Regarding snow driving - Acouple bags of sand in the trunk add a little traction and also are great if you do get stuck.

Great board!!

max93

I'm going to get a little touch-feely here and discuss colors on the coupe. Appearance by no means is most important, but when spending 30k and extra for paint, I tend to get particular. What would any of you say are good colors combos on the coupe, gender specific or otherwise? I tend to think that darker colors look better on larger cars (5 series and above) and lighter colors are especially more attractive on the coupe. I've never seen bright red on 5 or 7 series for example, or a topaz. Silver, yes, so that is an exception. And as for interior, black with aluminum trim is sharp. Plain sand looks, fairly, well, sandy without the $400 wood trim. Red on black, black on read, orient blue on tan or gray-- how about gray green metallic on black interior? Or, is that too daring? Saw siena red with sand interior once (on a coupe) and that looked surprisingly sharp. And we can always say it comes down to personal preference.

parump

I've read a copy of a bulletin issued by BMWNA that advises against the purchase of Kleen Wheels. Would the installation of these invalidate the warranty or reduce braking performance?

Anyone have comments?

veekay1

Alpine 325:
If one were to order the Kleen Wheels, where would you do that from and how can you make sure that the part # is accurate? Mine is a 325xi, which I think is 16x7 standard alloy.
thanks.

macdude44

My posting on color combos caused a bit of a stir a couple weeks ago. Basically stated that sand interiors work well with red and green exteriors while gray interiors work well with black, titanium and topaz exteriors. Color combos on cars should work no differently that combos on clothes......aka don't wear brown shoes with a black or gray suit. Likewise don't put those gray ostrich boots on with that dark olive suit. That said, black interiors work great with silver and black exteriors. Gray is super with black, titanium and topaz exteriors and sand is great with red and green exteriors. OMHO.

The most popular color, by far, here in Austin is titanium silver. Maybe because black, grey and red interiors work so well with it. I've seen the sienna red exterior and sand interior you thought looked so good and I agree. Resale on sienna red may be problematic though....I've heard more than one salesman tell me its a tough sell.

Size and color? Hmmm.....Topaz blue seems a popular color for the X5 and silver S -class Mercedes are everywhere.

trejos28

RocMg, Braveheart, alpine325i, my fellow "still waiting" for their car to arrive, et al..i need your input and guidance:

thanks to your help I think I've handled this new car buying (first attempt) fairly well. However, a few weeks ago (after serious frustration/annoyance/exhaustion trying to find the right car) I went ahead and put down a $1,000 deposit a black 325I.

First, I love this car and I'm going nuts waiting for her. However, as some of you might have seen in earlier posts, the lease quotes given to me seemed fairly high - $30,810 (step, leatherette, luxury, cd) - either $o down, $625 for 36 months OR $564 with $1,700 down. Each is for 12,000 miles. Some of you have told me it should be in the 450-500 range at the most.

My question: how much "negotiating" room do I still have? I know I can always walk away, although I'd sacrifice a grand and miss out on this great car. I hope I can work this out.

Thanks for any/all advice.

frank69m

Where is a URL link to this article to validate your claim?

burrsr

Certainly won't go wrong with the engineers. Those pocket protectors and Coke-bottle-thick glasses are not just for show, ya know...

max93

The analogy with clothing occurred to me as well. Sorry I missed your original posting on colors. I'll go read it.

frank69m

Don't know where you are getting your lease quote from, but in So. California, you can put $2500 down with $350 a month.

max93

Scrolled through your last four postings and didn't see the discussion on colors. Do remember around what day or message# it was?

errickson

Veekay: You can find the Kleen Wheels at http://www.autoaccessory.com/

Alp: Question/your (expert) opinion on speakers...Went to a high end store in Houston that has done installs on many a BMW, MB, Porsche, etc. Asked for their thoghts on speakers (Note: they sell MBQUART) Here is the pkg they said sound best in the 325. ????

* 1 pair of "ADS 336si" 5 1/4" speakers for the front (door?) Leave all other stock speakers. $600

* "Kicker 12" sub woofer. $175

* "JL" 4 channel amp. $600

I will come clean and say I have no clue what any of this means (except the prices), so please offer your thoughts on this combo....oh, and they wanted about $400 to install it all.

Thanks Mr. Alp

brave1heart

la-la land (to me at least) is Florida but I know you were referring to East Coasters not being in bed at 2 AM. I'm paying dearly this morning - I paid for my coffee and breakfast at the bagel place, promptly got my change back and almost walked out w/o the breakfast and coffee... Oh, BTW, I had my first problem with the car this morning: the change holder jammed - first the quarter slot and then the whole piece. I pushed it in by about half an inch - I would not be surprised if I messed it up because I was still half-asleep but it just happened too easily. Can't think of a more minor thing that could break but I feel like Sthroumpf Muscle's whiskers fell off or something (its a smurf and a wild cat). OK, the coffee is beginning to work now...

macdude44

Sorry.....my posting was on bimmer.org not here. As you may expect I go tblasted pretty good by the black and sand crew.

platypus

macdude44 has good taste in his exterior/interior color combinations. Blue/Green/Burgundy with tan, and black/white/silver with black/grey.

I will disagree with him on his fashion comment though - a nice pair of dark brown lace-ups looks wonderful with a light grey or medium grey suit. If the suit is dark grey, then stick to black shoes.

And for my non-PC statement of the day - here's my take on colors:

Guy colors: jet/sapphire black, titanium silver, steel grey

Gal colors: oxford green, sienna red, steel blue

Gender neutral colors: alpine white, bright red, topaz blue, orient blue

burrsr

Now don't quote me on this, because it's been a while, but here is the basic relationship between torque, HP, and rpm.

Torque is really a measure of FORCE, albeit in an angular direction, which becomes WORK or ENERGY (FORCE x DISTANCE ==> ft-lbs). POWER is really WORK or ENERGY per unit TIME. So multiplying torque (WORK) by RPM (a per TIME unit) should yield POWER. However, since we are dealing in imperial units, there may be one or more constants that need to be input into that equation to get it exact. But the basic theory is the same: (torque at a given rpm) x (that rpm) x (some constant) should = HP at that rpm.

Maybe someone who's even more of a gearhead could verify or further explain...

ed_ph413

I was looking into these a few years ago and as I recall, there was an issue with the kleen wheels interfering with air flow to the brakes. This can cause overheating and warpage during heavy braking. That may be why BMW recommends against it.

jasonkureejii

Does the base 325i come with chrome tailpipes...I can't recall. If not, that would be something that the dealer should have available, right? BTW, anyone else want to give their opinion on other options, ie trunk mat, etc, that might be great to consider purchasing at the dealership.

shipo

I took a good look at the tires on my car this morning using a coin as the tread depth meter. After ~26,000 miles, I can find little if any wear difference between front/rear tires and between the middle of the front tire tread and the shoulders.

Best Regards,
Shipo

burrsr

HP = (Torque * RPM)/5252. I knew there was a constant in there somewhere! For more info, the following website is interesting:

http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

jasonkureejii

Does the base 325i come with chrome tailpipes...I can't recall. If not, that would be something that the dealer should have available, right? BTW, anyone else want to give their opinion on other options, ie trunk mat, etc, that might be great to consider purchasing at the dealership.

macdude44

I agree with everything you said regarding color combos and gender associations......but one. Never put sand interior with Topaz exterior.....gray is the choice here. I've seen two cars at two dealerships sitting on lots unsold....both were topaz and sand. The topaz/gray cars sell before they're unloaded from the truck.
OK...disagree with TWO items. I saw a dark green/sand 330 coupe at the tint place yesterday that looked very masculine.....maybe the darker windows set it off. But it was truly striking.

platypus

You're right - Topaz blue with grey or black. Orient blue is more flexible - grey, black, or sand.

(But I would still get black interior with either of these two exterior colors.)

brave1heart

I've never been good in physics but you explain well and I think I'm with you so far. Based on the HP equation:

HP = (Torque * RPM)/5252

I'm thinking that if you achieve MAX torque at a low level (say, 2,000 RPMs), and your torque curve starts to drop off early in the high RPM's, then your MAX HP will be relatively lower, assuming that you can get the most HP at high RPM's of course. So what I'm getting out of this formula is that if you achieve MAX torque at a relatively high RPM level (say, 5,000), that would help you bump up the MAX HP rating. If you get the MAX torque at a low RPM level, then your MAX HP will not be optimized at all. It is a tradeoff: if you do mostly everyday driving, then MAX torque at low RPM's is preferable because you'd be spending a lot of time in the lower rev band. If you race or drive aggressively at higher speed, then you'd be benefiting if you achieved MAX torque at a higher RPM level (more HP that way). It seems that because of this tradeoff, the 3,500 MAX torque RPM level in the 3-series may be the sweet spot - a level that allows you to gain in the top end w/o giving up too much low end.

Feel free to take thinking apart - I'm making this up as I go along )

brave1heart

Funny you should categorize masculine and feminine colors like that but I did think it was interesting to gain your perspective. Here's what's even funnier: I liked steel blue (gal's color in your color scheme) at first, maybe because I had navy blue in my old car for four years and wanted something different; silver's much too common and I am tired of seeing it everywhere. Oh, and maybe because the steel blue was all over the brochure pictures. My WIFE thought the color was too fashionable and it was going to be a fad and that I was going to get tired of it in a few months. In retrospect, she was more than right. It's also funny that I liked navy blue for her A4 but she went with black (a guy's color). I went with Orient Blue because that's what I liked best. Steel gray would have been my second choice. I had second thoughts thinking I liked the topaz blue after I had ordered by now I'm happy I stayed with Orient Blue because it's classier. She did like oxford green (gal's color) best for the 325i (only consistency with your color scheme) but I though it looked too mature and not sporty enough. As far as interiors, black goes with pretty much anything. The other interior colors need matching to the exterior but it's all too subjective.

add123

I just wanted to say that my 330i is at the prep center now. It was originally a week 22 but was bumped up to a week 19. Does anyone know how long it will be at the prep center?

brave1heart

denright

I just got off the phone with BMWNA. They tell me that my car has a confirmed production schedule of June 29.

What the heck does that mean???

Does that mean it is supposed to be COMPLETE on June 29? Even if it's supposed to be COMPLETE on June 29, I am looking at delivery in late July -- a full month later than my dealer originally told me I could expect.

Man, I feel like I've been seriously jerked around. I wanted to have this car for the summer and the way it is sounding now, the summer will be mostly over by the time I take delivery. PLUS the 2002 models will be coming out a MONTH after I take delivery.

burrsr

You can see HP is dependent on both torque and rpm. So a v-tech GSR engine, for example, makes paltry torque (127 lb-ft, I think), but at an excruciating rpm level -- something like 7,700 rpm. On the opposite end, you have, say, diesels, which makes stump-pulling torque levels, but at very low rpms, like 1,800 or so. They cannot sustain high rpm's, and power falls off drastically. Hence, the application of diesel engines in semi's, heavy-duty equipment, etc., where high pulling power and low rpm's (= increased fuel economy) are desired. Of course, these engines rate about a ZERO on the fun scale, since their rev range is so limited.

So you see, it's a classis optimization exercise, and I think the 3's inline-6's combine the merits of both ends of the spectrum as good as any engines available in mass-production today.

brave1heart

Interesting... I'm wondering if they are so evenly worn out because of the perfect weight distribution of the car. Somehow I would think, though, that even if you never spin the drive wheels, there is more pressure on them to grip and they should wear out a little faster. Maybe braking compensates somewhat for that grip pressure, because the weight is in the front when braking...

platypus

Hopefully no one gets offended by my categorizations. Take them for what they are - some guy on the internet posting his color preferences.

When I see a steel blue 3er, I just have this image of a female driver. Opposite goes for a steel grey 3er.

As you may know, my car is silver, and I did consider the fact that silver is the most common color among 3ers, and also among all cars sold in the US last year. But in the end, I decided that I wanted to get the color that I liked the most - regardless of what other people were driving, because in the end, it was only me who had to be satisfied.

Given that, everyone should get the color they like the most. Just offering my opinion on the associations I have with certain colors.

One more thing brave - good thing you listened to your wife. Steel blue is one of those colors that looks great on the showroom floor due to its uniqueness, but would begin to wear on you over time.

Topaz is probably my second favorite color, and if I would have bought this car 5 years ago, topaz would have been it. I guess now that I'm in my thirties, I decided I needed a more "serious" color. Topaz IMO is the most sporty and fun color.

BMW should bring anthracite to the 3-series (offered in the 5 and 7 series). It has a much nicer gloss than steel grey, and probably would have been my first preference if available.