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2010 Toyota 4Runner Recall Concerns

I am inquiring on information about the parts used in the 2010 4runner. Does this vehicle share any of the parts with the vehicles that are being recalled. I am not familiar with the technology on these new vehicles and if anyone could post some information on what they have learned it would be great. Being a small market vehicle I was wondering if a recall would be prolonged if parts are being used. It becomes hard to justify 40k on a vehicle that may be built with known bugs.
-Tacoma recall for Drive shaft (doesn't the 4runner share this vehicles Frame/Chassis)?
-Electronic Braking software along with brake parts
Thanks for your time

Comments

  • I called Toyota Canada today and inquired exactly about the same thing. I was put on hold for close to 10 min so she could find out and then I was told

    “There are no known recalls as of today”

    I call my dealer right after and cancelled my order of Trail edition.

    First, if I am to buy a Toyota, it will not be build prior to Much 31st.
    Second, the if is a big question now. At this point I am no longer willing to pay premium price for a product that can be no better than big three and even worse a compant that follows the same poor practices.

    I am seriously considering 2010 Grand Cherokee or 211 ford explorer. Who know, may they have already learned.
  • I had already purchased my 2010 4Runner when the recalls started. I parked mine last month and there it sits, until I either trade it for a Ford or determine that there is no risk of unintended acceleration.

    I have been searching in vain for some information from Toyota stating clearly that the 4Runner will not be involved...all I get is the statement that the 4Runner is not currently involved in the recall.

    Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. My 4 Runner Limited, purchased for just under $44K new, is now worth $35,000 and only has 5000 miles on it. I hate to lose the money, but if I'm not going to drive it, then I guess I'll have to sell it.

    Thanks.
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 289
    I spotted your post yesterday and have been considering the best way to respond. For many, this has become a very emotional issue.

    In checking the national Office of Defects Investigation complaints website, ODI complaints, it does appear that there a few incidents of sudden unintended acceleration in Toyota 4Runners, but none so far (as of this posting) for the 2010.

    It should be noted that the postings in the database are not confirmed or validated by the government, Toyota, or anyone. They are simply reports submitted from owners. A few sound like they are likely caused by driver error; others are more perplexing.

    I also have a 4Runner Limited, 2008 model. Like you, I'm not thrilled with paying $40k+ for a vehicle that might just bolt into the wild blue yonder all by itself.

    But it is my understanding that the accelerator pedal used in 4Runners is different than those used in the recalled vehicles. Our 4Runners were built in Japan, so they use a different assembly than the recalled Toyotas that were built in the U.S.

    That doesn't really ease nerves, does it? Among the few incidents of SUA in 4Runners (per ODI database above), some were for my 2008 model.

    Many believe, myself among them, that Toyota isn't living up to the root cause of the SUA problem. The company keeps pointing to mechanical problems such as floor mats and sticking gas pedals, but I can't help but think it is really electrical in nature. Specifically, I believe there is a problem with the electronics and software related to the cruise control system. It is as if the cruise control kicks into the "Resume and then some" mode without warning. The thing is, I'm not an engineer, so what do I know?

    There's a chance that your newer generation 4Runner came with software that automatically kills the accelerator when the brake pedal is pressed. Toyota is adding that feature to all of its recalled vehicles, as well as its new 2011 vehicles on the production line. My guess is after this recall campaign has ended I might be able to get the same update done for no charge to mine.

    My advice would be for you to give the Toyota recall hotline number a call and ask if your 2010 4Runner has the brake override of the accelerator feature already. If it doesn't, ask how hard it would be to get it.

    Have I parked my '08 4Runner? Nope. But I have practiced what I would do if it suddenly decided to take off on its own. And I hope to get the brake override feature installed someday (realistically knowing they might not be able to do the job for another year).

    Would I buy another Toyota? Nope. I think quality has suffered, and I don't care much for their secrecy, especially as it regards retrieving information from the Event Data Recorders in their vehicles.

    However, I think if you ask most owners you will get the same response that the 4Runner is really too good a vehicle and too much fun to drive to just park it.

    It's your call.
  • mobjackmobjack Posts: 6
    I wouldn't worry about this in the slightest. Read this http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/26/toyota-acceleration-elderly-opinions-contributo- rs-michael-fumento.html and do plenty more online research. Don't fall for the media scare tactics, the Toyotas are fine.
  • Thank you for your kind and considered reply. I have learned that this is, as you note, a very emotional issue: I've actually been attacked on other boards for asking the question.

    Logic tells me this is an electrical problem of some kind. Did you happen to see the news report where the nation's electrical grid was overlaid with the locations of the unintended acceleration events? There was a correlation. The discussion was to the effect that there may be interference from the electrical field surrounding high-intensity power lines.

    As you suggest, I will try the Toyota Hotline and will report back here the response.

    I love my 4Runner. Thanks for the comforting words of advice. It helps to know that someone understands my concerns.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    edited April 2010
    There was a correlation.

    Just keep in mind that correlation does not imply causation. Generally, you will find concentrations of electrical power lines where there are lots of people. You will also find concentrations of Toyotas where there are lots people. It would appear that people "cause" both Toyotas and power lines. :)

    Without further analysis, it would be erroneous to conclude that power lines cause unintended acceleration in Toyotas. I wonder why such electrical interference would affect only Toyota.

    Also, keep in mind that the incidence of UA in Toyotas did not differ appreciably from other makes and models (it was very slightly higher) and only mushroomed after the press and Congress made a big deal over it.

    I agree that tsu made a great presentation.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 289
    "Also, keep in mind that the incidence of UA in Toyotas did not differ appreciably from other makes and models (it was very slightly higher) and only mushroomed after the press and Congress made a big deal over it."

    Actually, the media had good reason to make a story out of this. Toyota scored highest in SUA complaints by a huge margin. Ford came in a distant 2nd.
    2008 SUA Stats
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    This is what edmunds.com had to say.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • I wonder why such electrical interference would affect only Toyota.

    Certainly it's beyond my skill set to know, but could it be something about the presence of/lack of/difference in shielding the vehicle's electrical system from outside electrical interference? The news report I saw highlighted the Toyota loaner vehicle which experienced UA with two different drivers separated by a day or two, the second event resulting in death of the vehicle's occupants. According to the report, the vehicle experienced the UA each time just after passing under high intensity electrical lines. The report showed a graphic of the number of UA cases occurring just after passing under high intensity lines.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    That's interesting. Shielding could be an issue but that implies that Toyota would have made changes at some point with regard to shielding and that no other manufacturer would have made similar changes. Typically, such changes would be for the purpose of cutting production costs and, when one company does that, others follow suit promptly in order to remain competitive.

    You said it was a loaner vehicle. Does that mean they were loaned from the same physical location? If so, that alone would seem to explain the proximity of those two events.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • You said it was a loaner vehicle. Does that mean they were loaned from the same physical location? If so, that alone would seem to explain the proximity of those two events.

    Yes, same loaner from same dealer, different days but same week, I think; different customers, same overhead electrical lines, same effect (UA). First drivers safely stopped vehicle. Second drivers and passengers were killed in resulting accident. I wish I could find that report again and post it--it was a very informative report on Toyota UA.

    The point of the report was that the same vehicle experienced UA while passing under the same electrical lines on separate days with separate drivers. In a way, if we were running a lab experiment, you might say we were isolating for effect: the only constants were the vehicle and the overhead electrical lines.

    In any event, my gut tells me (for whatever intuition is worth) that there is an issue: what the problem is, the magnitude, frequency and proper correction are all things about which I am not qualified to speculate. I think it's human nature to ignore what one does not want to see. After years of training mules, I've learned one thing for certain: the only ones that hurt you are the ones whose dangerous behaviors were ignored and explained away as outliers (oh, he's just in a bad mood; she doesn't like to get brushed; it's the weather). If a mule switches its tail at you, you're gonna get kicked. I think the same about the UA problem, and it's time for Toyota to step up and address the issue in a through and scientific manner, with outside investigators and a peer-reviewed report.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Thanks for that info. If you do find that report again, let me know. I'd love to see it!

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • tsu670tsu670 Posts: 289
    Mr. Anwyl's open letter to Mr. LaHood was interesting reading, but carefully suggesting that the problem could very well be driver error as in the Audi case decades ago does a disservice to Edmunds.com readers.

    He points out the growing number of reports filed with DoT after Toyota announced problems with floor mats and sticking pedals and the media got ahold of the issue. It is almost as if he is implying those newer reports are bogus or at least suspicious. It could very well be, however, that most people didn't know until then that there was a government database whereby they could file reports of their own experiences. I certainly had no idea of the database until then.

    Much has changed since those cases of unintended acceleration in Audi models, the most significant being the design of modern electronic accelerator systems.

    On the Toyota website is a video of Kristen Tabar, general manager of Electronic Systems 2 Department at the Toyota Technical Center, talking about how safe their ETC system is Toyota video on ETCS (you'll need to click the Play button under the video).

    What Ms. Tabar doesn't say in her video is how Toyota is installing a software upgrade in all the recalled vehicles. The new software overrides the electronic accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed.

    She does discuss how any "variances" detected by the electronics cause the system to go into fail-safe mode, but fails to mention that the data is not necessarily stored in the Event Data Recorder (EDR). Toyota has been criticized for knowingly NOT storing certain information in the EDR so it can claim plausible deniability in court cases brought against it.

    It just goes to show how the company has been oh so careful in denying the problem is in their electronic throttle control system (ETCS) for the simple reason that almost all of its vehicles produced during and since the past decade would most likely need to be recalled. A recall that massive could very well break the company, and that would be a very poor outcome.

    Meanwhile, and this is what really stings, we still can't be sure the recall has cured the problem. Before submitting this reply I paid another visit to the Office of Defects Investigation complaint database. What follows is a report filed on March 18, 2010. It isn't the only one like it; there are some other post-recall incidents, as well.

    (Sorry for the all-caps; that's the way it is stored on the database):

    Make: TOYOTA
    Model: CAMRY

    Year: 2009
    Complaint Number: 10320920
    Summary:
    MY 2009 TOYOTA CAMRY. UNTIL TODAY, I THOUGHT THIS MIGHT BE A BIG HOAX, BUT IT HAPPENED TODAY AT 2:55 PM ON MY WAY TO WORK. MY CAR ACCELERATED WITHOUT WARNING. I FORTUNATELY WAS ONLY TRAVELING ON A SIDE ROAD FOR A BRIEF MOMENT AND WAS ABLE TO HIT THE BRAKES AND SHIFT INTO NEUTRAL AND THEN STOP THE CAR. ABOUT 2 WEEKS AGO I HAD THE "RECALL" CORRECTION COMPLETED. NEVER HAD AN ISSUE PRIOR TO THIS "CORRECTION"
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    It is almost as if he is implying those newer reports are bogus or at least suspicious.

    I don't think so. If you're talking about reports of unintended acceleration why would you not point out the fact that the numbers increased?

    Be that as it may, I find it curious that a specific cause has not yet been isolated. I would think that Toyota has enormous motivation to find the root cause so I will withhold judgment on their public relations "motives" until we find out.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,910
    edited April 2010
    that the problem could very well be driver error as in the Audi case decades ago does a disservice to Edmunds.com readers.

    It was two decades ago, and the jury is still out. Literally. After ~22 years of court appeals, the original Audi SUA case is back before a jury in Illinois. Or was as of last October - haven't heard anything lately. Audi Sudden Acceleration.

    I think that's the link that says the US, Canada and Japan also blamed the Audi SUA on operator error. But the Swedes blamed the cruise control.

    There's more Toyota SUA talk over in the Toyota on the mend for 2010? discussion. There's more "technical" talk about SUA in general in the Unintended Acceleration - Find the Cause discussion.
  • You should worry! On May 5, 2010, our 2008 Toyota 4runner exhibited sudden unintended acceleration. Wife was sitting waiting to make a right turn with foot on brake and transmission in drive. Engine speed suddenly increased and the car was out of control for about 800 feet. Nobody hurt and nothing damaged. This is our second 4runner and until this incident we loved them. Toyota came and got it and gave us a loaner. They are going to run tests, but I expect them to be skeptical just like some of the previous posts. There is nothing Toyota can do or say that will make us comfortable in this vehicle again. I was thinking about trading it for a Honda Pilot until I read that it has done it too. I think all the newer cars with throttle by wire can have this problem. We have absolutely no reason to bad mouth Toyota or any other car. However, no matter what tests they perform this problem did happen!!!! The 4runner has 21K and no returns to the dealer until this for anything.
  • See my post where our 2008 had SUA on May 5, 2010.
  • friedgreenfriedgreen Posts: 7
    Thank you for replying and sharing your story. My experience has been that expressing concern about SUA in the 4Runner is not well-received in certain circles. While I've not traded my new 2010 (purchased in January) it is not for lack of trying. I just cannot stomach the extreme loss in value. I am hoping for a solution from Toyota (class action induced and court enforced) which will take the car back or some other remedy reflecting the extraordinary loss in value following Toyota's total failure to tell the truth. I just keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.
  • Follow the money...the U.S. is only going to bite down so hard on Toyota, as the company represents billions of dollars to the U.S. economy. I think the storm is over and any lingering tort actions will only line the lawyers pockets. I don't mean to sound jaded, as I too have issues with Toyota (see forum 'toyota 4 runner transmission problems). But the more I read about other Toyota problems and experiences, including my own I'm convinced its time to sell, regardless of the loss of value and move on. I have never owned a Toyota product and when I decided to buy one, it was in no small measure because I believed the company made a reliable, well built car. Well maybe they did at one time, but regretfully I don't think that standard is met in their vehicles today....Mitch
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