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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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Comments

  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    ..for "virtually all" of the automobile Nav systems. They also do the maps for Yahoo MapQuest.

    Navs are interesting. At the time I bought my car, March 2002, the residual value for leased vehicles with Navs was less than without Navs.

    Also, I predicted that in the future, all vehicles would have Navs in them. But you would have been very surprised at all the people who wanted to get ML with no Nav at the time. In those days, you had to special order that kind of configuration because the packages only had the Nav/ML combinations.
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    The GPS doesn't have to determine what is legal or not legal. Some systems simply state something like "When possible, make a U-turn." Then you use your judgement to find a place to make a legal U-turn.
  • igibanigiban Posts: 530
    I doubt NAV can read the no-U sign. Well if you follow the direction well you'd not need to make a UT. But I was testing it with intentional passover and found that my NAV'd tell me to make a few rights to circle back, instead of making a UT, which seems like a quicker route. I thought there might be a setup to allow UT or not, but there seems no such a control.

    Well as long as it's $2K+ for NAV I am sure there'd be people opting out. For a typical family I just don't see every car needing a NAV. I have one already and if I were to get another car most likely I'd not pay $2k+ to get a NAV on it. That's unless the price of NAV drops to say, $500. So I may live w/o NAV, but I'd need ML, unless they upgrade ES base audio, if I were to get another ES.
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    The Nav will tell you to make a U turn where there is a lane for it.

    The Nav will say "make a legal U Turn", and then show you the actual turn.

    In some cases, however, it has you make a series of right turns.
  • I bought a ES300 in 2002, I didn't get the NAV.
    Now I really regret that.
    I bought a new GX470 last week with everything loaded. I love the NAV.
    Maybe in the next year or so, I will trade in my ES for a new Lexus with NAV.
    In 2002, I had a handheld NAV ($200) linked to a laptop($1000). So I thought the NAV $2000 was over priced. I was wrong. The NAV on my GX is so much easier to use that my handheld+laptop setup.
    I will never buy a car without NAV.
  • gekko2gekko2 Posts: 87
    I just bought a 2004 ES and the LEXUS NAV is awesome. I wasn't going to get the NAV at first because I asked a friend who has a Benz with it and he says "It's a waste - I never use it.". Of course, the Benz NAV is garbage compared to the Lexus (Lexus NAV is User friendly, Touch Screen, DVD, Detailed Maps, FAST, Millions of POIs, Nice Clear Female Voice, Accurate) so no wonder. Then I asked a friend with a new Lex GX and he said "GET THE NAV!" After the demo at the dealer, I was SOLD!

    The NAV will pay for itself in saved gas over time from not getting lost! The few dollars up front is worth it - especially when you ammortize the cost over the life of the car - especially on a car of this caliber/price. I too will never get a car without NAV. Doing so would be "penny wise and pound foolish".

    ALWAYS GET THE NAV if you buy a Lexus! It's easy to use and invaluable!
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I have a 2002 ES with nav and agree it is great. But I do have a question. In 2004 when the nav was updated the actual screen and buttons surrounding it changed slightly. Some of the buttons on my screen (the three vertical ones on the right) have been moved in the new version to the outer part of the screen as actual buttons, in essence making the map a bit larger.

    Here's my question: If I get the updated DVD for my 2002 will I get the new nav "unit," or will it be the same just with more entries in the database. I doubt anybody knows the answer but I figure I'll ask anyway.
  • igibanigiban Posts: 530
    just for DVD (map/POI) I believe, and not for the HW. Question for the 330 Nav users: Can your Nav. with more POI tell you the nearest MacD, or Safeway, or Walmart and Macy.... is? My 03's can't. Just wonder how improved the new DVD's POI is.
  • igibanigiban Posts: 530
    My Nav finally told me to make a "legal U turn" the other day. The problem is that I was already on the left turn lane to make a U turn. When I tested the first time while on straight lane passing my dest. it did not tell me to make a U turn. Do I have to be on a lane that make a U turn already for it to tell me to U turn? I doubt the Nav can know which lane I am at... That'd be impressive but in this case it seems to do no good.
  • gekko2gekko2 Posts: 87
    YES - the 2004 ES Lexus NAV with more POI can tell you the nearest McD, Safeway, Walmart, etc. Another big feature is you can input a business PHONE NUMBER to find you destination.

    Enhanced Navigation System
    The optional Lexus Navigation System for the ES 330 has been improved for 2004. As before, the system uses a DVD for map storage, containing the contiguous United States, plus major cities in Canada, on one disc. This system includes multi-language selection and very fast route calculation (about five seconds). The revised system features better, easier-to-understand graphics, a larger point of interest (POI) database and new convenience functions.

    New map modes show freeway exit information, an intersection guide, upcoming exits (a benefit if the driver passes an intended exit), points of interest at the exits and a compass.

    The DVD map database now contains more than five million points of interest (POI), compared to two million before. The database for Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles and New York features new "building footprint" graphics, which shows a 3D rendering of the building in its location. This feature can be useful for identifying buildings and their surroundings. As before, system functions include multi-route calculation, route preview, simplified highway junction graphics, and a dual-map screen mode. The navigation system comes with a center-console mounted six-disc CD auto-changer as well as a single-disc player in the dash.

    http://www.lexus.com/about/press_releases/popups/2003/pr_08_26_a.- - - html
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    ..I consider the NAV systems to be like any other very immature technology. That is, they will become obsolete very quickly, improve rapidly and become cheaper and more widely available.

    What looks like hot stuff today, will look ancient in no time!!

    That said, I think it is better to have an older NAV than none at all!
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    .. based upon my experience in the software industry.

    If Toyota is smart, their software is designed with a "layer" that speaks to the individual user interface. But the underlying stuff is the same for all vehicles.

    For example, in 2002, the Avalon, Camry, ES300, LS, IS, GS all had NAVs with the same underlying maps and turn by turn direction software. But their user interfaces (buttons, selection, voice control, etc.) were all different.

    If this is the case, there will be a different user interface layer for the 2002 vs 2004, but the software will accommodate updates to the underlying capability.
  • gekko2gekko2 Posts: 87
    DVD Navigation System: Lexus offers an optional DVD-based global satellite positioning (GPS) navigation system in all models for 2004, and was the first company to offer this technology across its model line. The system is standard on the SC 430 hardtop convertible and the LX 470 premium luxury utility vehicle. In all applications the system uses a DVD disc for map data - one Digital Versatile Disc (DVD) can hold all the map data for the contiguous United States, plus additional areas in Canada.

    Several Lexus models for 2004 incorporate Bluetooth® wireless technology and updated features, including a larger point of interest (POI) database, improved screen graphics, phone number-based address location and building footprint display. Bluetooth® technology uses radio signals to allow Bluetooth®-enabled cellular telephones to wirelessly connect with the navigation system to synchronize phone books and to make hands-free phone calls.

    The DVD map database in the new system now contains more than five million POIs, compared to two million for the previous system. The map database for Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles and New York features new "building footprint" graphics, which shows a 3D rendering of the building in its location. This feature can be useful for identifying buildings and their surroundings - helpful for example, when looking for nearby landmarks. Additional functions of the navigation system vary by vehicle. The LS 430 features a large seven-inch screen and incorporates voice command recognition. The driver can operate the system totally hands-free using 300 different voice commands. The navigation systems offered in the ES 330, SC 430, GS sedans and RX 330 feature touch-screen technology.

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =2004lexus_tech
  • igibanigiban Posts: 530
    would you get some of the new features? I'd think as least POI and more updated addresses can be obtained as such. Anyone tries that and knows how much does the updated DVD cost?

    Yes I am sure Nav will just keep getting better like all the e-gears. But I have not seen this built-in auto. Nav getting much cheaper yet. Still a $2K+ proposal in new ES and TL...

    BTW, gekko2, seven-inch screen Nav that incorporates voice command recognition is already in TL and TSX, so I'd think ES will get that down the road. Did you actually try enter MacD or safeway or Walgreen and it finds the cloest one to yours? This got to be using one or two of the extra 3 mil POI. Nice.

    Wonder how one of these mobile navs stack up?
  • kennyg5kennyg5 Posts: 360
    I am quite surprised that the price of navis have not lowered much since their introduction, say around 96? I remember I had to pay $750 (about 12 years ago) when I bought a car with ABS. Now, even below average cars (cost wise) come standard with ABS. Consider the nominal price of DVD drives and LCD screens (and perhaps the GPS software also), navi and auto manufacturers are making good profits on these gadgets. Just like the price of a factory installed car entertainment system as compared with a home entertainment system, the former is at least 4 to 5 times more expensive, while giving less features and inferior quality than the latter.
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    ...For the DVD, would be $224 quoted from Motor City Lexus in Bakersfield, California.

    The new NAV in the 2004 ES330 has all the upgrades igiban referred to, I believe. Also, in order to save screen real estate (for lenscap's info), some of the selections are now on the push buttons and not on the touch screen. For example "DEST" is a hard pushbutton on the 2004, whereas on my 2002 ES300, these buttons are on the touch screen.

    I suspect that some of the new features require a new NAV front panel, such as the Bluetooth wireless interface, so if you have an older NAV, you would not be able to avail yourself of it without purchasing some new hardware.

    My 2002 ES300 would not be able to accommodate the bluetooth.

    However, I believe that you CAN get updated software with more POI, etc. for older vehicles.

    On my last service maintenance, I was able to demo the 2004 ES330 NAV, but I was looking for specific errors to be fixed, so I did not pay much attention to the different user interface.

    It turned out that the major errors (which are in the map itself) were NOT fixed and the turn-by-turn and map data were not updated my rural area, so I did not pursue any more questions on the possibility of upgrading the softare on my 2002.
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    if they go like computers, the price will not tend to go down - rather you will continue to get increased capability for the same price.

    A Mac Classic computer cost about the same as my current G4 notebook, for example.
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    That is a very poor example. A Mac Classic is more comparable to an iMac (which is cheaper). You are comparing to costs of a notebook.
    Even though most nav hardware should be getting cheaper, the cost of maintaining and updating the map and POI data remains high. The manufacturers have to pay high fees to the companies who produce the maps.
    $2000 is overpriced though. That's what's keeping it from being more popular. How overpriced it is is reflected in how little of the value of an optional nav system is retained at resale time. A car that might normally hold over 50% of its value after 3 years might only retain only 30% or less of the additional cost of the $2000 nav system. The same is true of other gadgets such as expensive rear seat DVD entertainment systems in SUVs. They are also a turn off for some used car buyers because they don't want to deal with the repairs after the warranty expires.
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    ..maybe the details aren't exact, and I've only made a prediction, anyway.

    My prediction is that the price probably won't drop anytime soon, but the features will improve.

    And I still think it is more than a repair issue - it is an issue of technology obsolescence. That is just an opinion of course.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think it will get cheaper with time as technology improves.
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