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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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  • Thanks to Hurricane Gabrielle, my ac now has a musty odor. I know to spray lysol into the return for the ac, but where specifically is is the return?
  • Has anyone seen one of these at their dealers. I know they said October 1 but sometimes they show up earlier. Thanks
  • HI!
    this chat has gone so quiet--come on folks any rumors about pricing?
  • there are pictures and descriptions on the Lexus Canada site - www.lexus.ca
  • On the Toyota press release website the announcement was made that the 2002 Lexus ES300 will be in showrooms on Mon Sep 24,2001 with a base price of $31,505.00 the same price as the 2001 ES300. I could not locate any prices on optional equipment.
  • climclim Posts: 2
    I have a 1999 ES300 and have been very happy with the car. Before I purchased my car, a friend of mine told me she hated Lexus drivers because they drove so slowly. I did not notice this before I bought my car, but I did notice the slow Lexus drivers soon after.

    Why are there so many Lexus drivers that drive so slowly?

    I love passing other luxury brand autos to show that not all Lexus drivers drive like they belong in a nursing home.

    To all Lexus drivers out there-PLEASE KEEP UP WITH TRAFFIC AND STAY OUT OF THE FAST LANE IF YOU ARE KEEPING WITHIN THE SPEED LIMIT! Thanks.
  • dave210dave210 Posts: 238
    Hi, while I don't own an ES (Toyota Avalon), I still have been reading about the new ES on this board, since it might be a likely candidate to replace my Avalon.

    Anyway, today on Saturday the 22, a grayish-blue new 2002 ES 300 passed me with the Lexus dealer advertisement plates. Obviously this meant whoever bought the car has not gotten new plates yet. Interesting though that I saw one today when they aren't supposed to even be released until Monday. I thought I'd just pass that along.

    Oh, by the way, it looked very sleek and low to the ground. A lot like the new Camry in styling but a little bit more radical. I know that's almost an oxymoron when talking about the ES 300, but compared to the model it replaces, the styling is definitely a big change. I'm still not sure what I think of it. It looked good but the headlights seem to go on forever, since they kind of sweep back on the hood a little too much for my taste. I didn't have much time to examine it, for I was passing the lady driving it at 35 mph, but I saw enough of it to make an opinion on the styling. I'll have to wait until I can really examine one at the dealer.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Whoever you saw driving that new ES must have been someone from the dealer. My understanding is that no car can be sold and delivered prior to October 1, although I could be wrong.

    Also, all three dealers in my area say they aren't getting cars until the end of the week. Hopefully they will get them sooner, though.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I called Lexus Customer Service and they gave me the prices.

    31,505 -- Car
    575 -- Shipping
    550 -- In-dash 6-CD
    620 -- Adjustable variable suspension
    1700 -- Chrome wheels
    440 -- Heated seats
    640 -- HID lights w/rain-sensing wipers
    210 -- Power rear shade
    330 -- Wood wheel/shifter
    650 -- Traction control/brake assist/stability control

    Packages:
    1560 -- Leather, memory seats/mirrors
    3010 -- Leather pkg w/ML stereo and 6-CD
    3960 -- Leather pkg w/NAV and single & 6-CD
    2110 -- Premium (leather pkg and 6-CD)
    4860 -- Leather pkg w/ML and NAV
  • I read bacojoe's post that the new ES300 would be in showrooms today (Sept. 24), and sure enough, they were available at the Lexus dealer I went to.

    I'm not a fan of how the front of the car looks. But the inside was nicer and roomier than earlier models.
  • Are the full brochures available at the dealers now?
  • The Lexus dealer close to me had the cars, but no brochures yet.
  • so a fully loaded ES 300 with all the options is $41200-as I had predicted--invoice will be around $36200---hmmmmmm so it is NOT value priced
  • Actually a loaded 2002 ES300 is $41,530. But it depends on how much you absolutely need.

    Some things I would find unnecessary, like the GPS Navigation system, the ML Sound system, as well as rear sunshade, wood wheel/shift knob & chrome wheels.

    For a car the caliber of the ES300, $41K hardly seems high considering what you get: Mark Levinson stereo, GPS Navigation system, power sunshade, chrome wheels, wood wheel, and AVS.
  • But for that same $41k (actually, even less than that), you can have an Audi S4, which has AWD, Bose stereo, a 250 hp twin turbo engine, ESP, traction control, xenons, etc. It has a great interior with outstanding performance (performace far exceeding the ES, or any other Lexus except the GS430, which costs $50k+).

    If you'd rather have luxury over performance, get an A6, which has everything you mentioned (except it has Bose instead of ML - let's not debate which is better - I'm sure the ML is, but it's more expensive, too). With the A6, you also get Quattro AWD, and a more luxurious interior (IMO, although Audi is known for their interiors).

    Or for that $40k, you could have a Volvo XC, a BMW 330i, an MB C320, or even a Lexus GS300.

    Why would you take the ES300 over any of these (seriously)?
  • Yes you hit the nail on the head-the GS300 is deeply discounted because of economy --the ES will not be yet because of newness
    and above all power still remains same--If it was a 260 hp or more powertrain then atleast I would have said okay--wow!--well also I was hoping they will offer a value discount of $2100 or so to make it competitive--even my dealer was expecting the cap to be $39K--this is really absurd--another point is they offer a lot of goodies on ES and yet they leave the GS430 which is 56K fully loaded without even a sunshade or rain sensing wipers--I am really disappointed at the strategy here
    I think ES will not sell very well then they will start selling at invoice pretty soon
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    All the comparisons above are not relevant. While all the cars you mentioned are indeed great cars, you have to compare SIMILAR cars, as well as cars EQUIPPED the same. You are comparing non-loaded cars with a loaded ES300 -- very unfair.

    S4 -- While a very fine car, is not the same type of car as the ES300 except for price. It is a high-performance car along the lines of BMW's M cars. I highly doubt people will be cross-shopping the two. Heck, the Chrysler Town & Country is almost $40,000 grand but you can't compare it to an ES.

    A6 -- Again a very nice car, but equipped like a loaded ES300 the 2001 model (2.8 w/quattro) is $42,480, $2,650 MORE than the ES at $39,830. The Audi does have quattro, though, so this is a close comparison.

    330i -- More sport-oriented, although could be considered a legitimate competitor even though it is much smaller. Still, this car with NAV is $42,785, $2,955 MORE than the ES at $39,830.

    C320 -- See the 330i.

    Even the GS300 loaded with NAV and ML is in the mid-upper $40s. You're comparing a loaded ES in it's first model year with a near-base GS in it's last year before a major redesign. So part of what you're paying with the ES is the newness.

    Very few cars loaded with NAV are $40,000. Realistically most ES300s will be sold with leather, 6-CD, heated seats, HID lights and VSC/TRAC/brake assist. Those cars will be $35,920, which is very competitive if you ask me.

    And there are some fine alternatives out there for a little less, including the I35 and TL.

    In summary, most cars out there are great. But the ES300 is still cheaper than a comparably-equipped A6, 330i or C320. If someone can spend $40,000 maximum and they want a loaded car with NAV, the A6, 330i and C320 are not options.

    So, not to be sarcastic but yes, I would seriously buy one.
  • But the above comparisons ARE relevant because most people cross-shop cars based on price.

    Anyways, I was just mentioning all of the other great cars out there for the same price.

    All of the cars I mentioned can be had well-equipped for $40k (I did not mention any cars that start at $40k because to get them well-equipped would cost much more). Therefore, while a 'loaded' 330i or C320 would cost more than $40k, most of them sell right in the $40k range. Actually, based on the people over in the BMW 3 series board, most 330i's are coming in at the $38-39k range, and since they are almost all ordered from the factory, that tells me that's how most people want them equipped.

    As for the A6, the pricing on the A6 3.0 is not out yet, so we can't compare it, but the 2001 A6 2.8 costs $41,480(including destination) for a fully loaded model WITH NAV, and prior Audi owners get a $1,000 loyalty rebate. Seeing as A6's are not selling for MSRP, and the fact that all Audis have free maintenance for the first 4 years/50k miles, and the A6 has Quattro AWD. Maybe you don't like Audi's for some reason. That's fine, but they undoubtedly offer more than the ES. You could have a 2001 A6 2.8 fully loaded for around $38-39k, easily. The 3.0 pricing will be similar, but they won't be discounted as much right off the bat.

    So not only is the A6 2.8 Quattro an option, it offers more than the ES for the same amount of money (actually, it's probably cheaper right now). It has everything the ES has, plus AWD and free maintenance for 4 years.

    And what about the Volvo V70 XC? What does the ES offer for $40k that the Volvo doesn't? The Volvo has AWD, too. I had one of these for a loaner when I took my A4 in for my 5000 mile service. It's a very nice car.

    So you'd rather have a 'loaded' ES300 than a car with maybe no sunshade (or something trivial like that) but much better performance and a better interior for the same price, or a fully loaded V70 XC/A6 for less? Why? Because it's a Lexus? Does a brand name really mean that much to you?
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Just so you know, I do value your opinions.

    The A6 price I got was off the Audi web site. Perhaps your info is more accurate.

    I do think the A6 is a beautiful car, don't get me wrong. I just personally would not want one. I've heard of too many problems, especially electrical. Now this may not be the norm, but it's what I've heard. And I would keep the car about 6-7 years, so I would be out of the free maintenance period. And aside from that, I just prefer the Japanese cars overall. Just like some people prefer German cars. But again, I would see nothing wrong if somebody wanted to get the A6 over the ES300.

    And personally I would not want quattro. It just adds weight and cost to the car for something I feel I would not want or need except on rare occasions. So, while that is a plus for some people it is not for me.

    As for Volvos, I'm not crazy about them at all and would not consider them. But again that's just me.

    At this stage in my life I do think the only cars I would consider would be from Lexus, Acura and Infiniti. In fact my brother just got a 2002 CL Type-S and I think it's great.

    And while it doesn't mean everything to me, the Lexus brand does mean something. My family has owned three LSs, two GSs and my one ES. And I love each one. It wouldn't stop me from buying another brand, but it does count for something.

    I really am glad there are so many choices out there. Just more power to me when it comes time to buy.

    As for the ES300, so few will be near the $40,000 mark that I think it's a moot point. Most will be $34,000-$36,000.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    I'm inclined to agree with lenscap. Prices matter, but other factors drive the shopping process.

    Few enthusiasts will find any of the entry-level FWD Japanese cars very compelling, although the Acura TL-S is probably more interesting than the Lexus or the Infiniti. My wife has a '99 ES300. It's a pleasant car that's been absolutely trouble-free during the 2 1/2 years that she's driven it. She loves it. But it's not an enthusiast's car. How could it be? It's FWD, & you can't buy it with a stick. That's enough to keep many (if not most) enthusiasts from test-driving it.

    The Japanese FWD entry-level luxury cars are aimed at folks who value chrome wheels & power sunshades over razor-sharp handling & the pleasure of a perfectly weighted clutch. Most of these people wouldn't go near an Audi or a BMW showroom.
  • I got the A6 info from KBB (www.kbb.com). Just go to the A6 2.8 and you can add up all of the options.

    Personally, I'd rather have a car that's fun to drive. That's why I drive an Audi and you have a Lexus.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    This isn't related to the ES, but I thought you'd like it. There's a family that lives right down the street from me. They have one son who just turned 18. The parents bought the son a Land Rover Discovery when he turned sixteen. I guess all his friends now have SUVs and he wanted something different, so they bought him a new, bright blue 2001 S4.
  • Nope, I don't really like that. I think it's ridiculous to buy stuff like that for kids. They don't appreciate it and they don't ever learn the value of how hard you have to work to be able to afford a $40k car...

    Nice car, though.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Couldn't agree with you more about teaching kids values. But I knew you'd like the car.
  • I own a 93 ES 300, and am "cross-shopping" for a similar sedan. I have narrowed it down to the Lexus and the Mercedes C Class. Lenscap asked the rhetorical question as to whether a brand name matters. In my opinion, it does. However, it does not matter because of status, but because of reliability.

    For example, my wife owns a 1995 Volvo 960 with 80,000 miles on it. The car has had repeated problems, and we have spent at least $2,500 on extraordinary repairs on the car. My Lexus ES 300, in comparison, has 152,000 miles, and never needed any extraordinary repairs until 130,000 miles.

    Indeed, when I read the posts on the C Class, I notice that people have little problems like trucks not opening, keys not working, etc. although I would like to get a different car, having driven an ES for nearly 9 years, I am hesitant to switch brands given the reliability of the Lexus model.

    Put simply, when you buy a Lexus, you are buying reliability. European cars will simply cost more to maintain. For people like me, who rely on their cars for work, that is a serious consideration.
  • I couldn't agree with you more. I'm in the market for a new car, and my choices were Audi, Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. But then I think of reliability, and the only brand car out of the ones I want that I'm left with is Lexus. My '91 Lexus LS400 has been trouble-free ever since we bought it back in '90. My friends with Lexuses (Lexi? hehe) also have had great reliability track records with their cars. On the other hand, I have friends with BMWs and Mercedes, both old and brand new, that have had all sorts of problems with their cars and complain to me quite often. Not to mention my dad, who vowed never to buy another Mercedes again after his experience. Of course, this doesn't mean that all German cars have poor build quality, as I'm sure there are Mercedes out there that go trouble-free for years on end. And vice versa, that it doesn't mean all Lexus cars are ultra reliable. But given my own personal experience, it's hard to justify going with any other brand. So yes, to me, brand really does matter. There are certain models from the German manufacturers that if it was instead made by Lexus, I'd pick it over any car in the Lexus lineup. But unfortunately, that's not the case.
  • In making a decision, it came down to the 2001 GS300 or the 2002 ES300. The only appeal of the 2001 GS300 for me was the extremely low price (vs. sticker/invoice) and the fact that the 2001 and 2002 year GS300 were basically the same. The 2001 GS300 was at $34,699 base, which I believe is even under the published invoice price.

    However, despite the fact that I'm not too hot about how both cars look, I liked the 2002 ES300 better. The interior of the ES really won me over...it appears much more refined than the GS. If I hadn't known how much the cars' MSRPs were, I would've thought the 2002 ES300 to be the more expensive car.

    And looking at the options, the only thing I really want is the leather package, which is basically on most all the ES's. According to Lenscap's figures, that would put the sticker price including shipping to around $33,600. Beats me why everyone's focusing on the car being in the high $30k range when you can get a nicely equipped one for under $34K sticker. That's value to me, and an investment in reliability. Sure, the Mark Levinson system will kick some booty, but if the standard Lexus premium audio system is anything like the one in my current and old LS, it's no slouch either. If it's like the audio system in the IS300 though, that's a different story.

    If you can wait a year (I can't), I'd suggest waiting for the 2003 ES instead. It'll probably get a better engine with more horsepower to level the field with its 260hp competition, and maybe some minor changes to the styling to address the complaints. All for probably the same price. Unfortunately, I can't wait that long. If I could, I'd get the 2003 Nissan Z instead. :)

    Lenscap,
    You've had 6 Lexus cars in your family?? Geez, no wonder you know so much about these cars. Anyways, thanks for all the info you provide here.
  • when you say sticker will be 33,600 does that mean
    that you expect to pay $33,600 or would you expect
    to get that car at a lower price as demand lessens
    during the yr.
  • mmcbride1,

    Your post is kinda, well, stupid. Comparing a S4 to a ES300 is ridiculous. Sure the S4 offers a performance advantage but the ES300 offers a luxury advantage. Alot of the stuff you speak of is your opinion. ie. looks and style. As far as the ES300 compared to both the S4 and A6, it can be said that both of those cars offer less than the ES300 in some key areas. those being quality, reliability & luxury. And for $40K you will be driving a bare bones A6. For example, a ES300 without NAV, chrome wheels, and ML stereo, and AVS will cost about $35K MSRP. A Audi A6 2.8 FWD with similar options will cost about $38K. Take a 2.8 Quattro and you're starting at $37K. Fully loaded $45K. And Quattro isn't necessarily a plus.

    And to check reality, go check out prices on BMW 330i's, C320's on your time off from trying to bash the ES300. A loaded C320 runs over $50K! And you get less room and only a few more key features. A 330i can run into the mid-$40Ks, and again you get only a few more significant features and less room on all counts.

    And a Volvo XC? Isn't that a station wagon? Well, then, take a Lexus RX300. Much better than a Volvo XC. And a GS300 starts at $38K or so, loaded you're in the mid to high $40,000 range.
  • No one has even mentioned the awesome fuel economy of the new car--it is 21/29 averaging 25+--well also just wait a few months-it is very feasible to get a fully loaded ES for 36.5K or so as I have been told--the invoice max-s at 35.1K--also I think let us respect each other's opinions--someone may like leather only but someone may really want Nav--some really like bigger and shinier wheels--let us leave that to each individual and I also think it is unfair to call any post "stupid"---that is not good courtesy
    I also think you cannot buy every car and there are a lot of good cars--each car has to be judged on its own merit--comparisons lead no where but confusion-
This discussion has been closed.