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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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  • I got the A6 info from KBB (www.kbb.com). Just go to the A6 2.8 and you can add up all of the options.

    Personally, I'd rather have a car that's fun to drive. That's why I drive an Audi and you have a Lexus.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    This isn't related to the ES, but I thought you'd like it. There's a family that lives right down the street from me. They have one son who just turned 18. The parents bought the son a Land Rover Discovery when he turned sixteen. I guess all his friends now have SUVs and he wanted something different, so they bought him a new, bright blue 2001 S4.
  • Nope, I don't really like that. I think it's ridiculous to buy stuff like that for kids. They don't appreciate it and they don't ever learn the value of how hard you have to work to be able to afford a $40k car...

    Nice car, though.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Couldn't agree with you more about teaching kids values. But I knew you'd like the car.
  • I own a 93 ES 300, and am "cross-shopping" for a similar sedan. I have narrowed it down to the Lexus and the Mercedes C Class. Lenscap asked the rhetorical question as to whether a brand name matters. In my opinion, it does. However, it does not matter because of status, but because of reliability.

    For example, my wife owns a 1995 Volvo 960 with 80,000 miles on it. The car has had repeated problems, and we have spent at least $2,500 on extraordinary repairs on the car. My Lexus ES 300, in comparison, has 152,000 miles, and never needed any extraordinary repairs until 130,000 miles.

    Indeed, when I read the posts on the C Class, I notice that people have little problems like trucks not opening, keys not working, etc. although I would like to get a different car, having driven an ES for nearly 9 years, I am hesitant to switch brands given the reliability of the Lexus model.

    Put simply, when you buy a Lexus, you are buying reliability. European cars will simply cost more to maintain. For people like me, who rely on their cars for work, that is a serious consideration.
  • I couldn't agree with you more. I'm in the market for a new car, and my choices were Audi, Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. But then I think of reliability, and the only brand car out of the ones I want that I'm left with is Lexus. My '91 Lexus LS400 has been trouble-free ever since we bought it back in '90. My friends with Lexuses (Lexi? hehe) also have had great reliability track records with their cars. On the other hand, I have friends with BMWs and Mercedes, both old and brand new, that have had all sorts of problems with their cars and complain to me quite often. Not to mention my dad, who vowed never to buy another Mercedes again after his experience. Of course, this doesn't mean that all German cars have poor build quality, as I'm sure there are Mercedes out there that go trouble-free for years on end. And vice versa, that it doesn't mean all Lexus cars are ultra reliable. But given my own personal experience, it's hard to justify going with any other brand. So yes, to me, brand really does matter. There are certain models from the German manufacturers that if it was instead made by Lexus, I'd pick it over any car in the Lexus lineup. But unfortunately, that's not the case.
  • In making a decision, it came down to the 2001 GS300 or the 2002 ES300. The only appeal of the 2001 GS300 for me was the extremely low price (vs. sticker/invoice) and the fact that the 2001 and 2002 year GS300 were basically the same. The 2001 GS300 was at $34,699 base, which I believe is even under the published invoice price.

    However, despite the fact that I'm not too hot about how both cars look, I liked the 2002 ES300 better. The interior of the ES really won me over...it appears much more refined than the GS. If I hadn't known how much the cars' MSRPs were, I would've thought the 2002 ES300 to be the more expensive car.

    And looking at the options, the only thing I really want is the leather package, which is basically on most all the ES's. According to Lenscap's figures, that would put the sticker price including shipping to around $33,600. Beats me why everyone's focusing on the car being in the high $30k range when you can get a nicely equipped one for under $34K sticker. That's value to me, and an investment in reliability. Sure, the Mark Levinson system will kick some booty, but if the standard Lexus premium audio system is anything like the one in my current and old LS, it's no slouch either. If it's like the audio system in the IS300 though, that's a different story.

    If you can wait a year (I can't), I'd suggest waiting for the 2003 ES instead. It'll probably get a better engine with more horsepower to level the field with its 260hp competition, and maybe some minor changes to the styling to address the complaints. All for probably the same price. Unfortunately, I can't wait that long. If I could, I'd get the 2003 Nissan Z instead. :)

    Lenscap,
    You've had 6 Lexus cars in your family?? Geez, no wonder you know so much about these cars. Anyways, thanks for all the info you provide here.
  • when you say sticker will be 33,600 does that mean
    that you expect to pay $33,600 or would you expect
    to get that car at a lower price as demand lessens
    during the yr.
  • mmcbride1,

    Your post is kinda, well, stupid. Comparing a S4 to a ES300 is ridiculous. Sure the S4 offers a performance advantage but the ES300 offers a luxury advantage. Alot of the stuff you speak of is your opinion. ie. looks and style. As far as the ES300 compared to both the S4 and A6, it can be said that both of those cars offer less than the ES300 in some key areas. those being quality, reliability & luxury. And for $40K you will be driving a bare bones A6. For example, a ES300 without NAV, chrome wheels, and ML stereo, and AVS will cost about $35K MSRP. A Audi A6 2.8 FWD with similar options will cost about $38K. Take a 2.8 Quattro and you're starting at $37K. Fully loaded $45K. And Quattro isn't necessarily a plus.

    And to check reality, go check out prices on BMW 330i's, C320's on your time off from trying to bash the ES300. A loaded C320 runs over $50K! And you get less room and only a few more key features. A 330i can run into the mid-$40Ks, and again you get only a few more significant features and less room on all counts.

    And a Volvo XC? Isn't that a station wagon? Well, then, take a Lexus RX300. Much better than a Volvo XC. And a GS300 starts at $38K or so, loaded you're in the mid to high $40,000 range.
  • No one has even mentioned the awesome fuel economy of the new car--it is 21/29 averaging 25+--well also just wait a few months-it is very feasible to get a fully loaded ES for 36.5K or so as I have been told--the invoice max-s at 35.1K--also I think let us respect each other's opinions--someone may like leather only but someone may really want Nav--some really like bigger and shinier wheels--let us leave that to each individual and I also think it is unfair to call any post "stupid"---that is not good courtesy
    I also think you cannot buy every car and there are a lot of good cars--each car has to be judged on its own merit--comparisons lead no where but confusion-
  • comparisons lead TO no where but confusion --- when biased people make completely biased statements & entire posts.

    Otherwise comparisons can be very helpful.
  • That would be the MSRP, and would be the highest I'd pay for the car with leather. And yes, I'd expect the price to drop later in the model year. I doubt it'll drop as much as the 2001 ES (I could've gotten a 2001ES with the Lexus Value Package back in June for under $30K), but you should easily be able to get the 2002 ES for under MSRP later on.
  • With the economy headed in the direction it is, you may see discounting sooner rather than later. Of course, I would bet on it that the 2002 ES300 will be full sticker for a couple of months.
  • You can get quite a few nice pictures of the 2002 ES300 on the Lexus USA site here.
  • Nobody else is resorting to name calling. Why must you? You're all class.


    I merely was pointing out (if you read my later posts) some of the other cars you can get for $40k. The S4 is still a sedan, so it's a valid comparison.


    And you really think the ES is more luxurious than an S4? Have you ever seen the interior of an S4? Audi is continually praised for having some of the nicest interiors in the world.


    And for Quattro, AWD is superior to FWD in every way. It's better in the dry, in the wet and in the snow. Please educate me as to how Quattro is not better than FWD. It is a very robust system that Audi has been making for 20+ years. It is very reliable as well.


    Now for the A6. Follow my link and you'll see what I'm talking about. An A6 2.8 Quattro is priced accordingly (these are all sticker prices, although the car can be had for close to invoice right now):


    http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.nc3?kbb.CO;208157&80111;car&6;Audi;2001%20A6&M3M2A2&


    Base MSRP (incl. destination) - $34,975

    Quattro - 1,750

    Celebration Package - 1,200

    Cold Weather Package - 625

    Guidance Package (NAV) - 1,630

    Bose stereo - 750

    Stability Program (ESP) - 550


    Total - $41,480


    And if you read my post (which I'm thinking you didn't), you'd also see that I concede that a "loaded" C320 or 330i cost more than $40k, but one priced at $40k is by no means a 'stripper'. They are still well-equipped at the $40k level.


    And we're not talking about SUV's here, so please leave the RX300 out of it.


    Like I already said once, I was merely pointing out all of the other great cars that are available at the $40k price point.


    But I guess not loving the ES being priced at $40k makes me 'biased'? I am merely trying to point out why I think the ES is overpriced at $40k. There's a TON of competition at that price level. It's really not worth all of your name calling, though.


    Oh, well, I can live with you not liking me.


    gambhir - that's the exact same mileage posted on my wife's I30. It's nothing special for the ES.

  • I definitely wouldn't get a $40K ES. But I would get a $34K ES. :)

    Don't have any personal knowledge of how Audi is in the reliablity department. But from reading online and things like that, it doesn't sound too good. If their cars were just as reliable, I'd be getting a ~$25K Audi A4 with that cool, new CVT instead of a $34K 2002 ES.
  • Howdy:

    I drove what may be the first '02 ES demo in the Phoenix area. It was a high-end model with Levinson and NAV. Funny note: Salesman and my wife climbed in and asked me when I was going to fire it up already... but it had been running for a while at that point; very smooth and quiet.

    Fit & finish are very good; paint well applied. Car looks great from every angle. The photos don't do it justice.

    Test drive was very pleasant. Car feels self-assured and competent over a variety of road surfaces. Very quiet, too. The Levinson is impressive, but I listen to the talk radio mostly...so I won't order it. I know my area, so don't need the NAV.

    Seats and foot room are a huge issue with me. These are very comfortable, with nice lateral and very good lumbar support (very impt. to me) Design of the dash fascia is very cool... nice/sophisticated. Wood is rich looking. Head and leg room are very commodious; car feels more roomy than GS300; adequate trunk space. Controls are ergonomic and intuitive.

    Styling wise, it's growing on me. Wish they had some nice chromies available; have to wait for those. Performance: not a ball o' fire, but certainly adequate. Suspension is also adequate, tho' I like a bit more solid road feel.

    I've had two Infiniti G20s. The current one (a '93) has 135K and is still running like a top. I gave a good hard look to the I35. Why did I go ahead today and order the '02 ES? Its reputation for reliability; service, resale value, and hey, I'll be driving this baby months before most people will ever have seen one. Yuk yuk. I'll take delivery of my black beauty around Oct. 15. More then.

    Cordially,

    Robert
  • Robert,

    Did the ES300 you drove have AVS (Adaptive Variable Suspension)? That option might give you the more solid road feel you desire over the standard suspension.
  • JRichrds asked if the demo I drove had AVS; alas, it did not, even tho it was the high-end equipped unit. My salesman, who has been with Lexus since it was a pup, told me that last year, a total of zero of his customers had ordered AVS.
    I think I'll be OK with the stock suspension. It's tight enough for everyday driving, and is comparable to my Infiniti G20, which I think handles very well. I'm also impressed with the mileage on the ES; better than last year.

    Don't think I'll miss the AVS, and I'm looking forward to the HID headlamps (my subdivision has no streetlights at all) and wood/leather wheel.

    I got a real feeling of wellbeing and safety in the ES. It's a very well thought-out car. I researched the I35, Jag X-type, Acura TL-S, Millenia, Diamante, etc., all rather thoroughly.

    The ES seems like the most bang for the buck all-around, esp. when resale value is factored in.

    I'll be a happy camper when mine's delivered.

    Cordially,
    Robert Bass
  • fredvhfredvh Posts: 853
    Could someone post some digital pictures of the new ES300 on here? My closest dealer is 100 miles away so I will not be seeing the new car for a while. I sure would appreciate several angles. Thanks
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