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Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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  • ejerodejerod Posts: 86
    IT's been a while since I've posted anything.. about 3 months ago I had to replace my brilliant 2001 S500 w/AMG Sport package with a 2002 S500 w/AMG SP due to some unfortunate problems with the first. I wrote MB and the dealership and the district manager came down and gave me plenty of incentive to stay with MB. I'm glad I did. The new 2002 S500 is performing flawlessly, and last week I just got my new 2003 SL500 with AMG Sport, keyless go, Parktronic, Distronic, ABC, and every other available option. Because of my bad experience with my first car, the dealer skipped me to the top of the list, discounted the car 5 grand ( I still ended up paying 10k over sticker due to the incredibly high demand and one year waiting list ) and I got my car 24 hours after I left a deposit. Let me say this. If you ever get the chance to drive one or own one, get it. This car is absolutely wonderful in every way!!!. It's the perfect blend of luxury and sports car convertible for any price. I have business associates that are considering Ferrari's, Lamborghinis etc. Don't get me wrong, those are fabulous cars and anyone that can afford one is fortunate indeed, but for the money, dollar for dollar, pound for pound, I'd have to agree with Robb Report's assessment that this is the car of the year. To those of you who are fellow owners happy motoring. TO those of you who are aspiring owners.. welcome to the boards... and keep your head up, and your vision pure.. you'll get there.. and when you do, let us know.. we'll celebrate your success with you.. Take care, be safe, and love someone other than yourselves and family members...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Naturally I completely disagree with your post #1223. If you can't get excited about a expensive Mercedes because only %1 of the population (per you) can afford it, why in the world would anyone care to get excited about a 911 either, especially the "great" onces, 911 TT and GT2. Neither are cars that most can afford. They're all in the same boat.

    Now about the lesser Mercedes models not being much. Please, that pure bs. The C-Class does just what it's supposed to: drive like a Mercedes, ride like a Mercedes, and it has most of the same features of the higher priced Mercedes. What, every Mercedes is supposed to have 300+ hp. If you're going to look at it that way, the base Boxster doesn't make any sense at all, considering it's price/hp ratio. You don't think a C320 sport gives you *some* of C32's feel and ride, just like a BMW 330 gives you "some" of an M3? A Lexus ES300 is a Camry with a better interior, period. It's amazing what wood and leather can do. Toyota is so incompetent at styling that they couldn't even give the 2 cars their own look, they look more alike now more than ever.

    I hardly think Mercedes is in trouble because some a car-board don't get "excited" about a new MB. You have nothing to back up that me and "many others" statement. It's funny how the magazines keep harping about driving dynamics as the reason that they prefer BMWs, but MB outsells each BMW model in almost every class worldwide and in the U.S. In short (I've said this elsewhere on these boards), let BMW be BMW, and MB be MB.

    "However, Mercedes has their top of the line product too far out of reach, and
    their available product lacks all similarity to the good stuff."

    What? I don't understand that statement. A 911TT or GT2 isn't out of reach, or a 760Li, or an A8.

    What similarities does the C-Class lack compared to the S or E-Class cars? If you expect a complete S-Class replica at C-Class prices you're not going to find that type of relationship at any brand. All you're going to get from anyone's small car (Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar etc) is a taste of their larger cars, thats the whole point of the entire "entry-level" segment.

    It's cool with you me that you don't like Mercedes, because thats obviously the reason for such a off-base post. You're a Porsche fan right, I'm starting to wonder.

    v12power,

    Trouble with the S600? You don't even sound the same......

    M
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    Five trips to the dealer in the first 10k miles. It is time to speak up. First was a oil level sensor, fixed the third time in. Lost a mass airflow sensor, replaced at the second visit for the oil sensor, it failed on the way to the dealer that morning. Two trips in for lack of top end power. First time in it was mis-diagnosed and they replaced a coil pack. The second time in they found the problem. The V12 shuts down one bank of six cylinders under light load. Part of the process is to block that half of the exhaust. The valve that does the blocking failed choking the engine at high rpm. It is fixed now. We had no problems on our 3000 mile plus trip to CO and back.

    My '98 750 has been to the dealer 19 times in 45k miles. I bought the 600 expecting better things from MB. I think the reality is that these cars have gotten SOOOOO complex that it is difficult to keep the reliability up. This is where the Lexus crowd chimes in. The difference is that my 600 has far more technology built in that any LS430. I am sure they will catch up in features, they are excellent at copy catting. That will be a few years down the road to be sure. So I am currently a little dis-illusioned about these top of the line cars.

    Circumstances change as well. I may be spending a lot more time in the mountains. I have property there, of course the access is a gravel road. I may have to change my moniker as both V12s may be sold/traded off soon in favor of 4x4s.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the S600 is the finest car availible. The power and handling are at near Porsche levels. The luxury features shame Bently. The style is faultless, I really love the car. More than anything it may just be time for a change.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Wow, what a difference a few months make huh? Sorry to hear about your S600's problems. Whatever you do don't get a Lexus...lol.

    M
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Posts: 363
    "Naturally I completely disagree with your post #1223. If you can't get excited about a expensive Mercedes because only %1 of the population (per you) can afford it, why in the world would anyone care to get excited about a 911 either, especially the "great" onces, 911 TT and GT2. Neither are cars that most can afford. They're all in the same boat."

    That is not the point. Mercedes' expensive cars are exceptional. Mercedes less expensive cars are nothing like them. They share very little technology. They share very little in way of build quality. The only thing they do seem to share are those headlights.

    The C coupe is a wheezy underpowered kid car. The CLK is a luxurious fast and solid coupe.

    It would be different if the C coupe was a slightly less fast, slightly less luxurious, and slightly less weighty coupe...but its not.

    The thing with Porsche, you get the same kind of fun and driving enjoyment in a 50k Porsche as you would in a 120k Porsche.

    So, you said it correctly: All you're going to get from anyone's small car (Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar etc) is a taste of their larger cars, thats the whole point of the entire "entry-level" segment.

    Except, my point is that I dont get that with Mercedes entry level cars. Nearly all other brands I get this feeling with, but Mercedes no. All I get is a bunch of mediocre, compact, RWD buicks, with marginal build quality, very little luxury beyond the cow you are sitting on, and an unrefined powertrain.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Posts: 363
    I tried to fight the urge, but I cant help but comment on post1234.

    Learning the hard way sucks, doesnt it?

    Merc...remember all your derogatory comments about Cadillac and their failed attempt at cylinder deactivation. I think your words were similar to "Cadillac failed but Mercedes got it right". Looks like you spoke too soon, doesnt it?

    Personally I wouldnt go with lexus either, V12power. But thats just me. You might be too jaded right now to not look at lexus. It sounds though, like you are looking for a nice 2002 Audi A8 quattro.

    I remember reading a motorcycle magazine editor section...fairly recently. Topic was how Japanese bikes have no character.

    Editor said something to the effect of: Screw that...I once spent the night at a piss poor hotel in kettleman city, CA, because my Norton had just a little bit too much character. Buy a cheap fun bike with lots of character for local rides, but buy a real bike when you want to get somewhere.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "That is not the point. Mercedes' expensive cars are exceptional. Mercedes less expensive cars are nothing like them. They share very little technology. They share very little in way of build quality. The only thing they do seem to share are those headlights."

    Simply not true. The smallest of Mercedes' cars share all the same safety and engine technology. What do you want a V12 C-Class?

    The C230 is doing just fine thank you. Now the BMW 318ti was a wheezy kid car, the C230 offers almost all of Mercedes' virtues at a very low price.

    "The thing with Porsche, you get the same kind of fun and driving enjoyment in a 50k Porsche as you would in a 120k Porsche."

    Boy you're in left field. Yes that may be true with Porsche because gasp(!) they only have 2 cars! No luxury brand's smallest cars drives the same as their largest most expensive car. Not BMW, Lexus, MB, Jaguar, Audi, none of them. You're really reaching if you think a 325i drives the same as say a 745i or 760i.

    "Except, my point is that I dont get that with Mercedes entry level cars. Nearly all other brands I get this feeling with, but Mercedes no. All I get is a bunch of mediocre, compact, RWD buicks, with marginal build quality, very little luxury beyond the cow you are sitting on, and an unrefined powertrain."

    Well you might not get it, doesn't really matter, because buyers i.e. those buying the cars are.
    If you think a Mercedes drives like a Buick then you're lost. Unrefinded powertrains...hmmmm...funny never seen than anywhere about a Benz unless it's on the 4-cylinder models. I personally don't want any 4-cylinder Benzes to be sold here, but if you think the V6 cars unrefined you're alone in that thinking, especially when it comes to the E320 and C320 models.

    Yeah I remember exactly what I said about Cadillac's sorry attempt and Cylinder - deactivation. The difference between MB and Cadillac is that MB's technology does work, and it works better than Cadillacs ever did. One S600 has a problem and yes the whole idea has failed yet the V12 has been on the market for 2+ years now, without any major problems. Once owner, yep that makes it complete. Get a clue.

    M
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    I have to go with Merc1 on the cylinder deactivation. My minor foible was NOTHING resembling the V8-6-4 disaster. Most folks would have likely never noticed it. I did, and the fix was simple, nothing more than a broken clamp. I expect, on such a low volume model, that a diagnosis is a little trickier.

    I am not looking at Lexus. They may be wonderful cars but if you want to compare to Buick, there you go. The LS430 is a more refined, reliable Park Avenue, no style, no soul.

    I think one problem with the C-class is that it is not as good a small car as the 3 series BMW. With a 330i you get one heck of a fun little car. The C320 offers no manual trans, the manual trans 240 is no match for its BMW competition. That does not mean the C does not have many other MB virtues, I think it does.

    If you move up one class to the E and 5 series, I think the E-class are spectacular cars. The 5 has a worthless back seat, the E is comfortable. I would even choose the E55 over an M5. On quality I would say the 3 series beats the C-class, but the E-class definately beats the 5 series. I guess I just don't know how much S-class character you can build in for $30k. I think the 3 series by comparison has always excelled over the smallest MB.

    I think the C suffers more by comparison with excellent competition than by being a poor vehicle in its own right.
  • baron87baron87 Posts: 93
    You should NEVER have problems, any at all. It's riduclous...a broken clamp here and there...but that's okay, right? Because it's a Mercedes, right? It's amazing to me that our almost two-year old Cadillac DTS has never had any problems at all...and for more than half the price! There is a major discrepancy here...

    Just my $.02...
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Posts: 363
    "Yeah I remember exactly what I said about Cadillac's sorry attempt and Cylinder - deactivation. The difference between MB and Cadillac is that MB's technology does work, and it works better than Cadillacs ever did. One S600 has a problem and yes the whole idea has failed yet the V12 has been on the market for 2+ years now, without any major problems. Once owner, yep that makes it complete. Get a clue. "

    Cadillacs cylinder deactivation never worked? I am assuming you have "numerous" stories about how the V8-6-4 blew up in everybodys face. "I had a friend's uncle who had a mistress, who's dog's personal trainer owned a Cadillac V8-6-4."

    Right?

    The fact is, the technology worked, it just didnt work too well. I know someone personally who owns a V8-6-4, and it still works. The advantage is maybe 5 mpg, but it still works.

    But I am also assuming you will pull the "thats just one person" argument again.

    Somehow, just one person doesnt matter to you when you are talking Mercedes, but just one person seems to matter when talking about Cadillac.
  • benznutbenznut Posts: 104
    Enough with that Cadillac crap now, for real! So what, we here are Mercedes fanatics - that's the topic bro! I do not want to sound discriminating, but I come at this thread to read something interesting, hopefully new, about the recent facelifts, etc. It bothers me to death hearing your comments back and forth about Cadillac. When Caddy catches up with the big boys in the luxury/monster-sedans department with the others (like that 16 cyl. concept pitched against Maybach, Bentley and the Like) then come here and brag all you want. Of course, you are more than welcome from me to talk on the subject, even if it means bashing at the entry-level MBs.
  • benznutbenznut Posts: 104
    Does anyone know any more specs about the newly revised S/CL 55 and 600? What are the wheel/tire combos on the 600s?

    I am looking forward for more information on these facelifts, but I guess keeping people waiting is part of MB's strategy.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Posts: 363
    Alright...I can do that.

    So why is the ultra-expensive but low volume S600 having so many problems? Does Mercedes perform real world testing on their flagships? Why are these problems popping up?

    Why are Mercedes owners/fanatics justifying the unreliability of the car?

    This car costs in excess of 100,000 dollars. At the very least, they could assist in repair costs as a service to the customer. Unless they dont value their customers anymore.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Darn right Cadillac's crap 4-6-8 didn't work, because it got pulled from the market due to it being such junk. You're making up excuse after excuse for Cadillac, when everyone knows that their systems was junk. How do you explain a GM exec on C&D television admitting that is was garbage and that want everyone to "forget" it when GM debuts the technology in 2004 on their full size pickups.

    The fact remains that Cadillac PULLED the system from the market because of problems, Mercedes hasn't and won't because they aren't having nearly as many issues with it.

    You hear from the S600 owner that it was a minor problem in the first place yet you equate that with technolgoy not being sound, yet it's in V12 Benzes all over the world and there hasn't been so much as sound about it. If Mercedes' V12 was having the kind of issues Cadillac had you'd being hearing about it in same manner everyone is hearing about BMW M3 engine failures, i.e. it would be big news.

    There is a difference between one Cadillac fanatic keeping a 4-6-8 model running all these years, AFTER Cadillac pulled it than hundreds of MB V12 worldwide using their cars everyday, I know you understand that.

    Now you're going to tell me that you know the technology worked even when GM admitted that it didn't. Truly blind.

    "So why is the ultra-expensive but low volume S600 having so many problems? Does
    Mercedes perform real world testing on their flagships? Why are these problems popping
    up?"

    Do you understand that no car is perfect? My point is that Mercedes-Benz is closer to being perfect than Cadillac will probably ever be.

    "This car costs in excess of 100,000 dollars. At the very least, they could assist in repair
    costs as a service to the customer. Unless they dont value their customers anymore. "

    Where oh where did anyone say they had to PAY MONEY for repairs on their S600 because of the V12?

    You've truly lost it.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Did you have to pay anything for any of your S600's repairs?

    M
  • jstylejstyle Posts: 129
    In R&T lastest issue about future vehicles they state the next gen S-class has a "stepped" body design similar to the Volvo S80. Also Auto Bild mag in Germany said something similar stating that the new S will have a strong hood "crown" (best translation) and be a departure (for MB) design. They will keep the signature grill and current dimensions except for perhaps height (taller stance)and add more technology than the 745i with a more intuitive Nokia designed interface (what ever that means) according to the report.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well Nokia has been put in charge of the next generation Comand system, it will also have Bluetooth technology. A totally new type of interface.

    M
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    merc1 and wishnhigh1 -- you both know that a meaningful comparison between Cadillacs and MB's belongs on the sedans comparison board. Please take it there. Oh, and remember that civil and respectful discourse is a requirement of your Membership Agreement, okay?

    Thanks.

    Pat
    Sedans Host
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    I would agree that it sure would be nice to have zero failures on a car that expensive. The minor failures that have occured have been quickly fixed AT NO COST.

    I would say that not only does a comparison with Caddilac not belong here but it would be nothing short of absurd ANYWHERE. I drove a new Seville SLS for 10 days immediately prior to buying the S600. Trust me, it is like comparing filet mingon and dirt.

    I did trade the S600 off however. We already had a V12 BMW. While the S600 was a serious tour de force, it may have been a tad sterile next to the sportier feeling BMW. Besides the payment on the BMW was less than 1/3 as much since it was purchased lightly used.

    I really miss the car but, we are trying to purchase land in the mountains. Two V12 cars was overkill, something had to go. We bought a new G500 as a replacement.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    No stopping you now in that bad boy.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Posts: 363
    A G500? Did you check out the new Land Rover by any chance? I like the G500, but the newest Land Rover has got to be the sweetest performing off-highway vehicle I have ever seen.
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    I saw the new RR at the auto show and read the C&D review. I am not a fan of the BMW 745i style interior re; art deco, nor a fan of fully independant suspensions in vehicles with off-road intentions. I think it may be the best of the ON-road SUVs, the G500 will shame it off-road. Besides, the G500 is my third G-wagen including the G320 I drive. It is a rather addictive vehicle.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Posts: 363
    So do you take it off road, or just for snow use? If its just for snow use, then solid axles will be a much worse choice than fully independent with good LSDs. Ive never driven an ML, a G500, or a new Land Rover....but Ive driven the old Land Rover back to back with a Jeep CJ7...and the Land Rover blew it away. At least 5 times more capable off road.

    I dont see what the big deal is with solid axles. Yeah they are tougher, and they have a large suspension travel range...but the new Land Rover is mighty tough, and they have more than enough suspension travle to conquer at least moderate rock hopping.

    Still wouldnt mind taking a G500 offroad though
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    I will try to keep a potentially lengthy explaination short. The solid axle acts like a lever. As one wheel is pushed up the other is PUSHED down. This increases traction. With an ind suspension as one wheel is pushed up the other is unaffected, the body must lean to compress the down side wheel. More body lean and less traction are two major negatives when off-road.


    I am sure the new RR is pretty capable off-road. I am sure it rides better than a G-class on the road. So for most folks it is more suited to their needs.


    I have made many trips off-road in my G's. The coil sprung live axles with front and rear factory lockers make it nearly unstoppable. I like the more extreme trails, I enjoy the challenge. My 320 got a spring lift this year. It will be fully fortified by next spring with larger tires, custom bumpers, winch etc. I am pretty serious about the use of these trucks.


    In the snow the new G500 should excell. It has full time four wheel drive plus a four wheel traction control system similar to the ML and an electronic stability program to prevent spins and loss of directional control. That along with its nearly 3-ton wieght make it a great snow machine. I am not sure how ind susp and LSD could improve on this.


    We should also stay away from the Jeep thing. I agree with you. The best feature on a Jeep is its price, they are really just disposable toys IMO. Their fans however are much more rabid than even the Caddilac fans seen here.


    I have some off-road pics of my G at http://homepage.mac.com/bwinterholm

  • I have a 2000 S430 and love it. I have only had a couple of complaints and I wonder if anyone else has had these problems? First, my tires all went bald at about 22000 miles. Not that big of a deal really but I wondered if that is normal? Secondly, my A/C seems to struggle to keep cool and it doesn't seem to do a very good job, it seems like it is being blocked as the airflow is weak. Has anyone else had similar complaints? I was just curious, other than that, I love the car.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Posts: 363
    curious...have you ever owned a Porsche 944? if so, drop me an email @ dtoone@calpoly.edu
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    22k on tires is a little low. The S-Class is a fairly heavy car on woefully small tires IMO. This is probably the cause.

    The A/C should freeze you right out of the car, something is amiss.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,189
    ...about the 1986 Mercedes-Benz 420SEL? I'm considering buying one as a beater for the incredibly cheap price of $1,500. It is a very high-mileage car (215K miles). But appears to be in solid running condition w/o leaks or smoke. Cosmetically, it's in fair to good condition depending on your standards. I will most definitely ask for the service records. Is there any problems peculiar to the 1986 420SEL of which I should be aware? Could I get at least a year out of this vehicle?
  • airmaticairmatic Posts: 54
    Hi. I am a rather disapointed owner of a 2002 obsidian black S430, and I want to know if it is possible to take out the current system, and put in a new one in the upcomming 2003COMMAND system on the 2003 S-class. I really hate this COMMAND. My wife has a RX300, and its GPS is much better. Also, do any 2002 S-class owners have a problem with the radio. the AM stations are filled with static noise. I may have to replace the entire rear windshield. Thanks.
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