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Mercedes-Benz S-Class



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If you'd bother to read you'd know that MT didn't base their decisions soley on "track time". Now you're predicting again, cause you have nothing to base anything on in the NOW.

    "". If you can keep that S-Class running long enough, I'm sure
    it will perform well on the track for the magazine writers. That has little to do with it's suitability for every day driving.""

    Now your're telling me that the S-Class won the comparo because it's a track star? Oh gawd man get a grip on reality. The S-Class beat the pants off the DeVille in the same things most Cadillac owners look for in their precious Deville.

    You mean to tell me you've gathered all your intelligence based on one issue of CR and a JD powers survey. Looks that way to me. You don't even read the magazines, and here I though you were at least a half-informed Cadillacer. Turns out you'll likely keep posting the same CR and JD links.

  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    markhampton, you keep spouting off about how poor MBs reliability is, like they can not even be driven without a failure. If you do not know how utterly rediculous that asssertion is you area a bigger fool than you have made yourself out to be.

    Lets see here, I currently own a '98 750iL, a '01 S600, a '95 G320, a '91 325iX, an '86 944 Turbo and a "01 Chev duramax pick-up. The S600 is a recent purchase. We were in California visiting friends and relatives. I rented a '01 Seville SLS for about 10 days. The car had about 4000 miles on it. THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE COMPARING TO AN S600???? I can see you have a personal vendetta against merc1, but your line of thinking is crazy. it doesn't even make sense to try and dispute it with you. The SLS I drove ran rough, was loosing exterior trim parts and had the worlds most annoying climate control. Instead of blowing a constant temp, it cycles about every 10 seconds between hot and cold to keep the temp even. Sure the MB and Caddy offer auto climate control, there is hardly a comparison to be made though. The Caddy system is garbage, like the rest of the car. You go ahead and love that Caddy. GM makes nothing but junk.

    As for your CTSi, is it here yet? Will they actually follow through? Are you ready to see it slaughtered by an E-class AMG car with the 476hp supercharged V8?

    My impression of the Caddy after a couple thousand miles is this. I have been driving premium German cars for about a decade. The Seville struck me as a good car for someone entering the luxo car arena. It is nice looking, and reasonable to drive (fwd stinks). It has the big name features. If you had never driven a 7 series BMW or S-Class you would likely be very impressed with this car. I, on the other hand, have been spoiled by the superiopr engineering that goes into the premium German cars. In that light the Caddilacs are WAY outclassed, no matter what JD and CR say.
  • tiger40tiger40 Posts: 10
    What a show!! This is better than my favorite TV program merc1 and markhampton. I am an owner of a S430 (2001)and I could not be more dissapointed with the build quality. The CL is a much better vehicle. make awesome points that i as a person who plunked down $76k happen to agree with....i am not that familiar with the CTS...but I admit that the Caddy has come a long way. For those loyal to MB...we must make it known that MB can no longer live on it's name and must make quality dependable vehicles that are also attractive to the eye. I think they have figured out the latter....but really need to focus on quality. I am not too proud to say that mb needs help or will continue to lose to Lexus, BMW and yes .... even the American made Cadillac.

    Wake up MB owners...we can no longer except inferior took 4 years to get the ML that time competition has caught up. The LS430 IS a better made car (there are facts galore on this topic) however it does not appeal to eyes as much as the S. The C Class coupe is a piece of garbage and the current E Class is outdated and suffers from numerous mechanical problems. The only mb truly worth the 3 star on the hood is the new SL and the CL. i am only being honest!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If the current E-Class is so outdated then that must be why it's being replaced this fall, it's called time progress. Every car gets old and eventually gets passed by the competition. And the E-Class is not plagued by problems either, it's easily MB's most trouble free car. And for such an outdated it's still very much sought after.

  • tiger40tiger40 Posts: 10
    Merc1...I agree that the E is the most sought after MB. That is due to the price point, value, and style. It is a good buy for the money if your intent on a benz. However, compared to the is not a very good value. As for the problems...I can't quote magazines or articles (quite time) But I can share with you that my service dept mgr (local Boston MB dealership) indicated that the vehicle is problematic. This could be the result of more E Class being sold than any other class and they just happen to see more. In any event, I don't want to be part of your debate...just want to enjoy it and add my perspective as a mb owner with a open mind. Lastly, i will say that the s class certainly if nothing else has the incredible ability to turn heads where ever i go...then again it could be my faboulous good looks
  • rbrenton88rbrenton88 Posts: 186
    Markhampton's statement that the E-class tranny works incorrectly is, well, incorrect. The tranny is driver adaptive. If you cruise, it doesn't readily downshift unless mashed. If you tear around most of the time, it changes shift points.

    I think all models suffer from one electronic quirk or another. I've had several: rain-sensing sensor won't sense, the gas gauge sometimes gives me fits. Do I complain to the dealer? heck yes. Would a GM owner? I suspect they're more concerned with the tranny dropping off the car somewhere along Rt.66.
    But I could be wrong.
  • benznutbenznut Posts: 104
    Sorry, I got you mixed with v12 power. Was a nice compliment, though:-)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well that may be true to a degree, but Benzes aren't ever going to be the "Value" choice when it comes to their respective market segments. It's just been my experience with talking with E-Class owners they've found it to be the most reliable Benz out of the sedans. Espeically in the latter years of the current E's production.


    I know right!! I can only imagine what V12power must go though trying to decide which V12 to drive on a daily basis. Everyone should experience a 12-cylinder car sometime in their automotive years.

  • All I know is that it didn't work properly for me. If it was supposed to adapt, it didn't adapt in time to change my impression of the car. On another board, I read that they didn't get the electronic bugs worked out of their transmission until this year. I don't know if that's true or not, but it is consistent with my experience.

    Would a GM owner [worry]? I suspect they're more concerned with the tranny dropping off the car somewhere along Rt.66

    I guess that's why BMW -- a more reliable brand than MB -- is using GM transmissions...
  • v12powerv12power Posts: 174
    WERE using GM transmissions. Gotta keep up! They are now ZF or Getrag, guess they had too many fall out along Rt.66
  • Has this ever happened to anyone else??

    I took my 2001 S500 to have the windows tinted (for those of you wondering about the specifics, I got a 35 percent tint, which is legal in NYS apparently and will pass inspection, but not in NJ). The job came out looking super nice, I must say.

    But when I picked the car up, I noticed what I thought was an imperfection in the application of the tint on the back rear window, right where the bottom of the window meets the trunk of the car. I thought it was just an elongated, narrow bubble that would go away in a few days as the window tinting outfit had told me to bring the car back in a week if there were bubbles or imperfections that hadn't gradually disappeared.

    Well, since then, my inch-and-a-half long imperfecton has developed into a 4 or 5 inch long, multi-veined, full-fledged crack in the glass.

    Is this an occasional hazard of window tinting? Frankly, I never heard of this problem before. Could the tinter have used one of his tools so forcefully as to have cracked this thick glass? The area it occured in does seem perhaps more delicate and prone to damage as it is right where the glass meets the parcel shelf so there is very little space to work in.

    Or is it more likely that this is a stress crack in the window from chassis flex, which often happens in convertibles, for example (in which case it's a warranty issue)?

    I can't even imagine how much this will cost to repair -- the defroster element is embedded as part of the window and I'm sure the glass part alone is over $1000, let alone labor charges to install it.

    Any one have a similar experience or know about this issue?
  • It seems that there's quite the discussion on the quality/reliability of recent Mercedes cars. I have seen data that points out that they're reliable and ones that say that they're not.

    Here's the way that I look at it. If you want Benz S Class, you're not really going to be looking at all the things you look for in an economy car. You're not really going to look at reliabilty and resale value. You're gonna look at the way it drives and the fact that it's a flagship car.

    My parents own a 1994 S Class and I must say that it's one of the best cars out there. For anyone looking for a great car look to the W140(92-99) or w126(81-91) s classes. I feel that back then M-B's were overengineered for the customer's own good.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "" guess that's why BMW -- a more reliable brand than MB -- is using GM transmissions""

    Wrong, yet again!

    Someone posted a link elsewhere, and guess who is leading BMW in reliability in every class:,1518,grossbild-179773-193601,00.html


  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    No one spends 70k plus for a car without considering reliability. No one that I know at least. Maybe a young rich guy who owns a Porsche feels this way but business execs who buy super-lux cars are used to perfection or something very close to it. That's how most got where they are. On top of that poor relibilty will hurt the resale value of the car and that is starting to happen to MB. Once the resale value starts to falter the car loses its high level status. On top of that the momemt the car doesn't work properly you are bitter about it because no car that costs that much money should give you problems, particularly in its first year or two.
  • ..on Motorweek; BMW is using GM automatic transmissions in the 5-Series, and X5. Oh well...
  • I don't read German, Merc. Perhaps you can give some details on this study, as I have always done. Are they talking about initial quality? Long-term dependability? What is it?

    I can read English, and your reference contradicts both CR and JD Powers. Oh how that must irritate fanatics like you -- knowing that the dependability of MB model configurations sold here in the U.S., which is all that really matters for most people here, is at the bottom of the luxury barrel.

    1994 S Class and I must say that it's one of the best cars out there.

    It's a shame they don't build them like that any more....

    You'll have to do better than that merc. At least translate it and tell us what kind of study was done. Also tell us how German model configurations differ from U.S. models.

    -Anti Merc
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    And doesn't your own survey's put MB ahead of BMW overall? That's the point I was trying to make. In the link I posted you can clearly see the problems per 1000 cars and in each category MB leads BMW. The E, C and SLK have a lower number of problems per 1000 cars than the 5, 3 and Z3 BMWs.

    Oh how that must irritate Cadillac fans that they have built better cars than before and nobody cares, because the main indicator of that (resale) is still in the toilet.

    I posted that because you said that BMW is a more reliable "brand" than MB and it clearly isn't. ISN'T BMW lower on the scale overall than MB, from the data you yourself posted?
    Don't use "not being able to read German" as an excuse, it's as clear as the day is long what the survey is saying. Look at the cars with the lowest scores and the ones with the highest, common sense will tell you which end if the "good" section of the chart.

  • I stand corrected. Where dependability is concerned, JD Power ranked BMW #14 and MB #10. They also ranked Cadillac #8, Lincoln #4 and Jaguar #3.

    It is good to see that you are finally given to reading these studies and taking them to heart. Perhaps now you will finally admit that MB builds cars that are less dependable than Cadillac. That is the only point I wanted to make. I think MB may score higher in the "fun-to-drive" and panache categories. I also think Cadillac has come a long way, and that the CTS is the beginning of a renaissance for Cadilac. It is certainly fun to drive. While Cadillac has been improving in recent years MB has, in contrast, suffered from declining reliability.

    As far as my comments on your link are concerned, you failed to read my questions yet again. Here it is in the simplest of terms so that you may understand it:

    Does your study discuss long-term reliability or initial quality?

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It's about time you got YOUR OWN data right! No I don't admit (nor do I see that) Cadillac cars are more dependable, because what you never could answer is why is ALL of Cadillac's sedans on the list to "avoid". You could only come up with "they'll be out of production soon" which is an feeble excuse at best. I still don't see the C,E, SL, CL, on the list of cars to "avoid" once they become a year or so old like the Catera, and Seville were, the latter of which has been on that list more years than any Benz. Yet all you can say is that they'll be "gone" soon.
    Secondly for the difference in "fun to drive" (per you) and those other things that make a Mercedes so appealing for a many, a mere point of advantage in a reliability survey isn't enough to warrant getting a Cadillac. Truth be told the two brands have never appealed the same group of people anyway at large. I can see one buying a Lexus, a car that is like a Mercedes in many engineering respects along with significantly greater reliability, but a Cadillac with a point of great reliability won't ever appeal to a true Benz fan because a Cadillac really isn't in the same league is so many other respects. Again, the study posted was for the first year of use.

    "And who cares about BMW?" YOU brought BMW up just because you wanted to take another uninformed swipe at MB, hence the "correction" in your post.

  • I see. Just when I thought you had enough sense to read the statistics (since you started citing them), you backpedal. Fine. I'll beat this dead horse as long as you want.

    JD Power long term reliability rankings: Jaguar #3, Lincoln #, Cadillac #8, MB #10, BMW #14.

    CR April 2002 reliability (p. 27): MB S-Class ~40% below average. Cadillac Deville ~25% below average.

    Your fanaticism will never change those cold hard facts. Go ahead an beat your head against the wall if you wish.

    because what you never could answer is why is ALL of Cadillac's sedans on the list to "avoid"

    I didn't see the Eldorado on the list. I see you've changed your tune and limited the scope of your statement. Lets not forget that the Escalade never made the list while the M-Class is on the list for every year that it was manufactured.

    I don't care one whit where BMW ranks. Moreover, I was man enough to admit that I was wrong about BMW. I doubt you will ever have the courage or sense of honor to do the same.
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