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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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Comments
Cars are mechanical beasts. The fact of the matter is problems will happen. My experience with my E has been that it has more things happen to it than it should, however, the service departments ability to CORRECTLY identify the problem and CORRECTLY fix it are paramount. Here in NH, there are few options. My visits for service would be cut by 75% if they'd fix the car right the first time.
I am very very sorry to hear about your experience. The fact that you even considered buying another MB after your experience is pretty shocking though. If you need a reliable AWD vehicle, you should buy a Subaru (we've owned 2 and NH they're the only way to drive in the winter). If it's about being seen, then the other vehicles that have been mentioned are good options.
Regards,
BigRob.
As far as other wagons go, there isn't anything out there that provides the utility or size of the E-class. I've looked at the 5-series wagon, but question why anyone would buy it. Doesn't have the extra third row kid seats, and only carries marginally more than the sedan's trunk. The Mecedes C class isn't any better and the 3-series wagon is really small.
I haven't looked at the "crossover" vehicles like the Infiniti FX, Audi All-Road, Volvo XC90 or others. But based upon my instincts and what I've read, I'd have to bleieve the Infiniti would provide the best reliability and customer service.
Why are you set on getting another wagon if you don't need the space of the E-class? Wouldn't a sedan be sufficient? Or, if you need the space and want AWD, wouldn't a SUV like the Acura MDX work as well for the same money?
OEM brakes are ATE or Pagid from what I can determine. From my research either are just fine as replacements.
Also, to get filters there are few sites out there like the benzbin.com and formymercedes.com that sell MB filters. They also sell the brakes.
Good Luck with your shopping.
With all the frustrations and bad luck you have had with Mercedes, I think an Infiniti would be a wise move. The FX35 uses the same 3.5 liter V6 engine that is used in about 10 Infiniti/Nissan models and is the big brother of the 3.0 liter engine in my 9 year old 143k mile Maxima. This is about as reliable a V6 you can possible get.
Of course, with your bad luck, Infiniti may pay you not to buy their vehicle! They wouldn't want "Jill stories" over on the FX board.
These cars do have some electrical issues, ie. window regulators, sensors, lamps etc. but all in all I would rather drive a MB than a Honda or Toyota anyday.
Being of good quality these cars will take a lot abuse and come back for more.
Find a good independent MB mechanic in your area for some TLC.
Unfortunately, last January, I blew out two of them on a sharp curbstone. Try finding a choice of snow tires in January in the northeast!! I ended up with Michelin Alpins on the rear axle for the balance of the winter. They also have very good traction and are a little quieter than the Nokians. I don't have enough miles on them to make a judgement on wear.
Someone posted a link to the complete description of the 7-speed auto and, frankly, I retracted my original comments. The 7-speed does appear to have some impressive engineering technology behind it. I have since run the question by a friend who happens to hold a masters degree in mechanical engineering and materials science and, conincidentally, is looking to upgrade his E430 to either an E55 or M5.
His opinion is that the 7-speed auto in the standard E-class will indeed be a better transmission for 99% of drivers who want good acceleration, smooth shifts and good gas mileage. If, on the other hand, absolute maximum acceleration is your sole quest, a 5-speed requiring fewer gear shifts from 0-60 or 0-100 would theoretically work better.
HOWEVER: The AMG 5-speed is NOT the same transmission in the current or former standard E-class. It is designed to shift considerably faster and can handle much more torque. So any comparisons of the current 5-speed auto in the E500 with the 5-speed in the E55 is apples and oranges. I found this out first hand with my test drives of the C32 vs. C320. They were like night and day in the way the two transmissions shifted.
I suspect the E500 7-speed will be a significant improvement over the E500 5-speed in every performance measure, since it employs quicker shifting (albeit not AMG quick) than the older transmission. The E55 is a different car/transmission altogether.
From posts on this board, I'm under the impression that reliability problems for MB have cropped up with more recent models, particularly the M-class and new C-class. My own 2000 E320 has been back for reliability problems at least five times in just over three years, and maybe that's better than average.
But I would be hesitant to compare current Mercedes models with those of just a few years ago. I question whether Mercedes will rate similarly in four years hence.
Just my 2 cents worth.
A new regulator was installed and switch. Dealer was very accomodating. They seen this many times before.
What is the chance the other rear window goes?
Seems like a known design issue.
Why not a recall to fix the issue?
Just my opinion...
Linh
However, how do you explain the 5-series selection by Consumer Reports as the best car they ever tested and the E-class's deteriorating rankings in JD Powers and other rating sources? Even these Edmunds forums have a lot more E-class horror stories on this board than is the case in the 5-series board.
Is there truly a good source of objective ratings information that in a detailed assessment ranks the current E-class equal to or above the 5-series?? I'm getting worn out by anectdotal evidence of a car here or there being good or bad.
So I am thinking of going back and getting the 2002 E320, Black with Ash interior (concerned that this too light of a color). It only has 21,000 miles on it. At around $40k, this car's price seems really good. I actually love the ride. I'm not super fast driver, like my wife (who drives a BMW M). I just cruz up and down the hwy to and from work.
The biggest thing that scares me is the reliability of the BENZ. But every car has it's own issues. I have had little things go wrong most cars I have owned, from BMW to Nissan Sentras to Acura CLs. Is the Benz a complete nightmare to own or are the owners just expecting too much from a machine because of it's 40k + price tag.
What are all your thoughts? To BEAM OR BENZ?
Sure, durability has some to do with it, but at least in Germany, it was the loaner car that made it worth a while. I am not sure if the same is true in other European countries, but I presume they would be similar. MB also has a dedicated fleet sales and pricing for them as well, which I have not seen much of from other manufacturers.
I checked the Washington Post and, unfortunately, they do not have many 2002's to choose from this week. A 2001 w/30k miles is listed at $31,500/ obo. My recollection is that $40k would be even be a high price for a 2002 E430, let alone an E320. I look at the ads since I'm still mildly interested in an E-Wagon.
Another point of comparison is that a business partner and his attorney both leased 2002 E320's in December 2001. Mercedes was offering dealer incentives at the time and the equivalent purchase price for the cars were $45k and $46.5k respectively (one had navigation, the other didn't). Why anyone would pay $40k for a 2 year old E320 is beyond me.
So BENZ if you wish, but I suggest you shop a little harder.
I have owned both cars - 1998 BMW 528 and 2003 MB E500. I also still own a 2001 BMW. Both cars are great cars, it is really up to the buyer to determine which is best for them. The 5 series gave you a great feeling of being connected to the road, it handled great and the quality was great. The only downsides are the car is small on the inside and the trunk, and it is expensive when you add the neccesary options. The E500 is also a great car, it doesn't handle as well although it does have an adjustable air suspension which is neat but even in the Sport 2 setting it does not replicate the BMW feel. Overall I like the E500 better as an all around vehicle but like I said you could go either way. Also anyone who wants to buy a new BMW 5 Series better act quickly as the new design is coming to dealers in October and it is a mess.
The best part about these debates is that they are both great cars, it is like picking the best flavor of ice cream - everyone wins.
According to Edmunds used car pricing, assuming the 2002 E320 has a moonroof, it is worth approx. $44,300 dealer retail as a Starmarked car. That is in line with the Starmarked 96 I bought in Oct. 98 as it was going into it's 3rd model year. Mine was $38K with 38K miles on it. It had the moonroof but not the sport package.
The 2002 you're looking at is one year newer than mine was so I would expect the price to be above $40K and in fact that is where the pricing is in the Northeast in the last month. I've done some looking and decided to wait til next year to try to find the same car you're looking at but at a further discount of $4-6K.
If you can move the dealer price down some, please let us know. I can use it as ammunition next year myself.. Based upon my experience, I would take any possible savings and put it back into extending the Starmark time for an additional year or two if you don't think you'll use up the 100K miles in the remaining 4 years.
I would love a Beamer, but my wife wants to trade her 2000 M Roadster for a BMW 540i 6-speed next year, so then would both would have the same car if I bought the 530.
I was really impressed with Benz's room and love the classic Benz look.
Thanks for all your support! I'll let you guys know what happens and how much we get the car for.
Anyway, here's one from today's Washington Post for you to consider: 2003 E500, Panoramic roof, winter package, fully loaded, 13k miles, extra clean. $49,800/obo.
I'm dead sure that a mid $30's price on a 2002 E320 would be possible here.
2002 E320 with special package (sport package, black maple wood, ash leather). Black color. I bought a CD player for about $800. It has 20,000 miles on it and I paid about $40,000. I reseached this for about one month in the San Francisco area.
The service was awsome! They treat you better than any dealer I have ever been to. I have bought other cars, and as soon as you sign the purchase contact they pretty much don't remember you. This guy took over three hours to take car of everything and show me all the features of the car. Loved the low pressure from the sales, to the parts, to the finance guy.
I will miss my Acura CL, but the Benz just has this really nice feeling about it that no Lexus, Acura, or Infinity can replicate.
Re: the pricing, I just did a search within 100 miles of my home in eastern Mass. and found just 3 2002 E320's. The cheapest has 20500 miles and is listed at 41,900. It does NOT have the sport package or a CD player. Nor do the other two with slightly fewer miles that are both at the 43K asking price. Most dealers around here will flex from those prices maybe 1-2K so it looks like if your car were available around here for the 40K price, it would move pretty fast due to the sport package and CD player add-ons that the others wouldn't have at that price range.
The dealer we test drive the car told us that the new 2004 E320 will come in October and said that they won't give any discount. Is it true?? We want the 2004 with the DVD Nav.
This is my first experience buying a new Benz. I would like to know some idea from you guys. We live in Fairfield County in Connecticut.
There are 4 more reputable dealers in Connecticut to choose from.
It is typical for salesmen to say that there will be no discount on new models. As far as getting a discount, your best bet is to check with different dealers in October.
Good luck!
just to give u an idea what the demand is like. i went to the dealer 1 month ago, and i'm #30 on the waitlist. my eta is dec., if not jan. the problem is that 03 model didn't have 4matic and a lot of buyers pushed off their purchase. oh well what ya gonna do. it's worth the wait.
If you're willing to settle for second best you can always buy a Lexus.
IMHO from MB's recent quality gaffs, that the 2 year waiting list is a great idea! Maybe the car you order will be fully debugged by the time you get it.
Lexus is second best to Mercedes like the Yale football team is better than Oklahoma. Yale has a great heritage, but they've been moved down to Division 2. They fumbled a lot in Division 1 and need to practice more to get their plays right.
I do hope Mercedes quality improves as an E320 or E500 Wagon would be the perfect future replacement for our SUV. But, unless I go ultra practical with an E-class CDI turbodiesel sedan, I will likely look to replace my sedan with a 5-series based upon the "driving experience" of the BMW.
http://mbspy.bacosys.be/mbquality.htm
BTW, I still own 1989 W124 300e and 2004 RX330.
Does anyone really sell below invoice? I have the $$$ and ready to go....
Thanks!
Unless I missed an incentive announcement, I would think a $3k-5k below invoice price on a 2003 E class is highly unrealistic. On the other hand, I'm being tempted by a 2003 540i 6-speed with an MSRP of $58,500 for $49,000 ($4,000 below invoice).
One question: when folks say they bought below invoice, does that include ooptional equipemnt as well? I don't think so but just want to be sure.
http://www.mbusa.com/amg/experience/challenge.jsp?model=null
M