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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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Comments

  • dkatlantadkatlanta Posts: 23
    According to the account I read, the JD Powers report counts “problems per 100 cars,” without distinguishing one problem from another. The most frequently occurring “problems” for the E-class, I believe, were “excessive brake dust,” “electric windows,” and “uneven tire wear.” Two of these three may be simply be common to high performance cars.

    I also wonder whether owners of these cars might be unusually picky when they identify and report “problems.” You drive in to the dealership at the time you’ve reserved, pick up your free loaner car (or wait in the executive lounge with the Starbucks coffee and the high speed internet connection), meet with your personal Service Advisor, and show him the list of “problems” you’ve compiled; you put down every little thing you can possibly think of—at least I do.

    No, these cars still aren't Hondas, but when the tires on my wife's Oddysey wear out, I don't think of complaining to the dealership about the car, I just buy new tires.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    It's amazing how people see these surveys differently.

    M
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    It turns out that you can use statistics to figure out whether a given car has likelihood of a given number of defects if you know the mean or average.

    In MB's case the JDPower reported mean was 3.18 defects per car. Lexus was 1.63. The impact on owners is easily computed.

    For example the likelihood of 6 defects in the Benz is just over 10%. It's less 1% for the Lexus.

    This is why getting to know a good Mercedes service shop is critical to use of the vehicle.

    JDPower does a good job of presenting individual year ratings on their 'consumer website' broken down by  
     
    Mechanical Dependability
    Feature & Accessory Dependability
    Body & Interior Dependability
    Overall Dependability

    Five Dots = Among the best
    Four Dots = Better than most
    Three Dots = Doesn't stand out
    Two Dots = The rest

    2000 E is Two Dots in all categories.

    p.s. Statistical calcs per Robert Dovich's Quality Engineering Statistics page 54. 1992 ASQ Press.
  • jean7of9jean7of9 Posts: 192
    Congratulations for your New 5 Series. I am now driving a fully equipped 03 BMW 330xi since March 03. The price of this car with all options touches the edge of the 5 Series. But boy what a drive. The only problem is ingress and outgress due to B Pillar. But once inside it is all worth it. You will certainly have better access inside the 5 Series. I still own my 99 E320 4matic which I seldom drive because of my sweet love to the 330xi. The BMW 3 Litres engine is equal in power to the MB, but feels so much peppyier. By the way, while being very picky myself, I have never needed to go to the BMW dealer since I got the car. Its reliability is outstanding and feels like a rock at all roads. I cannot say the same about the E320 which needed seven different visits to Dealer in the first year. I keep the E320 because I still think it is the best car for family outings.
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    I have mixed emotions about all three MB dealers you mentioned. I bought my 2000 E320 from Euro, and it was a real pleasure. Service was okay until recently -- their aggressive expansion combined with increasing MB unreliablility has caused me to switch to HBL for service. In late April I tried to drop off my car around 7:45 a.m. for an engine warning light on, and the street at their service entrance was jammed in both directions with MBs trying to enter their six service lanes. Took me almost 20 minutes until a porter told me to leave the car in the street. Then another 15 minutes waiting for my service advisor. To cap it off, I stood in line for almost 30 minutes to get one of their "all Mercedes loaners" from their Thrifty Rental Car surly agents, then waited another 15 minutes until they finally produced a Dodge. Bummer!!!

    Wednesday my a/c fan went out (repeat of same failure a year ago), and the best they could offer was to have me deliver it at 7:30 a.m. and wait, or drop off the car and have my wife follow and drive me home -- first available appointment was July 23.

    But instead, I called HBL at 7:30 yesterday morning (they're just a mile from home!). What a great experience! Immediate appointment (8:30 a.m.) when I explained that my a/c was inop (95 degrees and humid). No wait to enter service lane. Service advisor greeted me while I was still in my car -- a really nice guy and helpful. Enterprise Rental office was huge, with chairs, current newspapers, and their agents were extremely helpful, friendly, etc. Offered coffee or soda and escorted me to my loaner after a 2 minute wait. What a difference! Loaner was a new Buick LeSabre (MBs were available). My car was fixed and washed by 2:30 p.m. My new service home is HBL!

    However, the sales staff there POed my wife when we were in the market for the 2000 E320 -- she felt that their "supersalesman" acted as if he thought we might not be able to afford a new MB. I didn't have that impression, though. No experience with them since, but they're probably okay.

    No recent experience with American Service Center. We shopped there three years ago, but they didn't have a car with color and options we wanted. Sales folks were very nice, though.

    Hope this helps.
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    Oh ye of great faith and trust -- are you dealing with Lexus or Infinity dealers? The 3 problems you mentioned aren't problems with those cars -- or with most Japanese cars! Granted, brake dust isn't a huge problem -- but it's a fact of life on MBs and BMWs. And BMW, BTW, was rated No. 5 by Powers! And as for “electric windows” and “uneven tire wear," why aren't other luxury car owners reporting similar problems?

    No offense, but I really disagree with your take on the JD Powers report. Most posters here, I think, would acknowledge that MB quality and reliability just ain't what it was or should be.

    From my own experience with my 2000 E320, I really believe that MB quality has gone way south! And the service provided by my dealer has been horrible lately - read my Post #5029 to fredisdead. I only wish it had been as you described in your second para of Post #5025.

    Again, no offense intended. If you have a newer MB and are experiencing no problems, great!!! I only wish I were in the same boat -- and thank goodness for the warranty on my E320 and the fact that I bought the extended MB warranty that will take me to 2008 with my E320. Guess I'll just have to put up with frequent trips to my MB dealer -- at least the one I just switched to approaches the kind of service and treatment you described.
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    Congrats on your BMW 330Xi. In Canada you really need the all-wheel drive. I seriously considered the same BMW, but when the 5-series was offered with the $4000 factory-to-dealer incentive, I couldn't resist. I'm only paying $41k for the 530i with a $47.5 MSRP, with standard moonroof plus auto, Premium Pkg, Xenons, Cold Wx Pkg (heated seats, etc.) and Power Rear Sunshade. I think that's less than a 330Xi would cost with similar equipment!

    And while I don't need AWD here in the D.C. area, I know I'd enjoy driving the 330Xi - it has a first class reputation. Hope I have the same reliability with my bimmer as you've had with the 330.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Sorry if I missed it, but what dealership are you getting your BMW from? Any experience/comments regarding VOB or Tischer on the Maryland side, vs. Arlington or Fairfax on the Virginia side??

    How is the 530i availability - are you ordering or taking a car already in stock/production?
  • weldone99weldone99 Posts: 26
    Will be selling my E320 in September. Does anyone have any experience selling over the internet. Such as what Web Site offers the most exposure to buyers in the Northeast.(New Hampshire)
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    I bought my 530i from BMW of Fairfax. They did not have a car in stock with the color combination or equipment I wanted, so they did a search on cars at the New Jersey port. I "lost" two cars I really wanted before they found one that was acceptable and the "original" dealer agreed to give up -- Blue Water Metallic, Sand interior, auto, Premium Pkg, Cold Wx Pkg. Mine will also have the power rear sunshade ($525 invoice), which I would not have ordered but will take anyway. Price was $2000 below invoice.

    Other posters here report that VOB is selling at $2800 below invoice, but I don't have any direct experience with them or any of the other Maryland or Virginia dealers. My experience with Fairfax was very pleasant and there was NO pressure. I should take delivery by Wednesday. BTW, my salesman tried to add two more charges for over $300 that he said were on the invoice and that the dealer would have to pay -- BMWUSA advertising fee and training fee. But I reminded him that fees for our deal included only their $199 processing fee, taxes, title and tags. He quickly backed off. Nice guy, too.

    Hope this helps.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Thanks for the info. And congratulations on the car.
  • hlsjr1hlsjr1 Posts: 3
    I am looking to replace the OEM Michelin MXV4 tires that came with my 2001 4-matic wagon. The mnileage has been great (40,000)with a reasonable amount of tread left, but the tires have been plagued with punctures, leaks etc. MY Mercedes dealership recommends replacing with the same tire. Does anyone have any suggestions for a replacement tire, I have considered the Michelin energy MXV4 Plus and the Bridgestone Potenza Re 950. I am open to your comments and ideas. I need an all season tire that can handle snow here in Massachusetts. Thanks
  • vl39vl39 Posts: 14
    Having owned a number of MBs (5) and BMWs (2), my 98 E300 Turbodiesel is the best overall vehicle I have ever owned considering performance, economy, handling and reliability! Yes, reliability! No problems in 112,000 miles and I yet to do the brake pads! Have had a Toyota Prius the past year which I really enjoy because I am a mileage nut. The wife enjoys the E300 now.
    The 97 BMW 740iL was a reliability problem - lots of little things. The 98 BMW 328iC was okay, but the convertible was a poor ride on rough roads.
  • EdsotoEdsoto Posts: 42
    Reading, not just this board, but others mfg boards, it seems that it is all luck whether you get a no problem car, a few problem car or a lemon...

    If you do get a problem car, then the issue is whether or not your service center fixes the problems to your satisfaction. Granted, some cars maybe more prone to having problems than others (but from the survey that may not be the case), but it just seems to be luck of the drive...
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    Sounds as though you've had good mileage with your original Michelin MXV4 tires. But enduring many problems with leaks, etc., can be a real bummer.

    I put new Yokohama AVS Db tires (235/45ZR-17) and 17" wheels on my E320. The tires are designed to be very quiet, and they were at first. But like others who post on this board, at 10,000 miles I began experiencing lots of noise between 30 and 60 mph. Had only one puncture -- large screw embedded in the front left tire and a resulting slow leak. Fixed in February and no problem since. But I probably won't get more than 20,000 miles on them, and I won't buy Yokos again (reputation for being noisy).

    Several on this board a while back strongly recommended Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season, but they're pretty expensive. However, Tire Rack rates them highly, as do many users. Suggest you go to www.tirerack.com and read all the reviews. I've done that, and I'm anxious to replace my Yokos with them (at more than $2000 each!).

    Let us know what you decide.
  • px260px260 Posts: 42
    My OE tires, Goodyear Eagle LS has about 31k miles, they wear very evenly (should go to 40k before replacing), have not had a nail/screw in them, and they hold the 35psi tire pressure very well (no significant leak after 6 months). The only complaint I have is they are rather noisy on freeways, since new. I plan to replace them eventually with Dunlop SP Sport A2, they are rated very favarably on TireRack.com for all catagories. At $89 per tire, it seems like a good choice. Does anyone have any pro/con comments?
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    I have just one comment -- you get what you pay for. Have you checked the specs on the $89 tire? I would be hesitant to put a tire like that on an E-Class Mercedes.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Edsoto - any individual experience with a new car purchase is luck of the drive. The question though, is how (un)lucky are you likely to be.

    With MB you are more likely to be unlucky both during the initial 90-day ownership interval and over 3 to 5 years of ownershp than with ANY major, competitive luxury brand such as Lexus, Infiniti, Acura and BMW. All of the major mid segment Japanese branded vehicles: Toyota, Honda, Nissan will also be luckier choices. Some domestically branded cars will be luckier but the difference in the luck is lower.

    It is luck of the drive. But you can start out with a more luck in some cases than in others.

    Good shopping!
  • mark156mark156 Posts: 1,992
    Hi Folks,

    I just put new Michelin Pilot sports on my 2000 E430 sport (total current mileage, 21,400). I have about 1,000 miles on the new tires now and so far, so good. They are quiet. The total price was just under $1,000 including the four wheel alignment.

    I just had my "B" service done at the dealership today and when I picked up my car, I overheard a gentleman talking with one of the service guys about tires. The service guy said that every brand of "low profile" tires will get noisy at 10,000 miles and just get noisy-er as the mileage increases.

    Well, I guess there are trade off's for the look vs. the longevity and noise.

    Mark156
  • masafa00masafa00 Posts: 2
    I recently purchased a 1998 E430 Sport with 50,000 miles on it. Just a few days after purchasing it (from a private party) I had to have the crank shaft replaced. I had the repair done at the MB dealer in West Palm Beach. Before taking the car in for a 60,000 mile maintenance visit, our horn went on the blink. We also noticed that the light in the glove compartment did not come on and that the side view mirror on the passenger side didn't move when putting the car in reverse. Our rear Bose speakers don't work. Additionally, the odometer reader (LCD screen) keeps fading. Our mechanic, a reputable garage in Boca Raton, told us, after checking the car and doing maintenance on it, that the car was in good shape and not to worry. The next day (today) the message "engine electonics" and "check engine" came on. I am very concerned of what this can be and am really deciding of selling the car. Any ideas before I call my mechanic?
  • masafa00masafa00 Posts: 2
    In response to Mark 156, the tires on my 1998 E430 sport are very noise. They are top of the line and everyone that had ridden in my car is shocked by how loud the sound is. It is very embarrasing. I do think that the longer I drive it the worse it has become.
  • p100p100 Posts: 1,116
    I have had good experience with Michelin Pilot tires (although not on a Mercedes car). Great handling and cornering. I have about 30K on them and they are getting a litle louder and wearing out fast. I do not expect more than 35K miles from them.
  • donald02donald02 Posts: 54
    If I read you correctly, you have had your car at least 3 years (maybe longer) and are just now getting your "B" service. You can get your service appointments every 10-11 months no matter how many miles you drive. (Obviously, if you drive more than 10000 miles during this period you can get the service intervals sooner). Suggest you get your next free service before the 4 year period has expired.
  • mark156mark156 Posts: 1,992
    Donald, if I'm not mistaken, I'm on my second "B" service. Once you have an "A" and then a "B", you start over to A and B again. They told me today that they changed the radiator and brake fluid under the "B" service. I don't drive this car much and plan to keep it a while. My 2002 ML500 has over 18,000 miles on it and will pass the "E" in mileage by the end of the year. Also, I've change the oil on the "E" before it was due when it was new. I just can't drive a new car past the 1,500 miles on the first oil change. The dealer told me it would be OK but I said change it anyway.

    M.
  • dkatlantadkatlanta Posts: 23
    I'm very pleased with my current tires, Michelin Pilot Sport All Seasons. Before that I had Bridgestone Potenza S-03's which were excellent initially, but wore out very quickly. The Pilot Sport AS tires are easily equal to the S-03's when they were new: very communicative and reasonably quiet.
  • finadvfinadv Posts: 59
    I was just looking at my rear speakers from the trunk. I noticed that each side has two cut outs for a total of four rear speakers. I only have one on each side. Is the other cut out for an upgrade or am I "missing" one on each side?
  • px260px260 Posts: 42
    The Dunlop SP Sport A2 is HR rated, 420 treadwear rating with AA/A traction/temp rating. As far as I can tell, they are better than the Yoko Avid V4, Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus, and my OE tires. I do have good experience with the Michelin Energy's on other cars, they seem to last forever (due to hard rubber) but do not corner well. I wonder if anyone has any negative experience with the Dunlops.
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    Thanks. The specs on the the Dunlops are impressive. Have you or anyone you know had any direct experience with them? I'd be interested in reactions.

    Although my Yoko AVS Db's are noisy, I'll keep them until they wear out. I'm considering the very highly rated and expensive Michelin Pilot Sport All-Seasons, but the Continental ContiExtremeContact tires are almost half as much and are rated higher on Tire Rack.

    Decisions, decisions!
  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsPosts: 508
    hlsjr1:

    Like mbdriver I put Yokohama AVS db tires (16") on my E320 about 2 years ago. And also like mbdriver's experience, mine got so loud and so rough feeling (like snow tires) that the local NTB dealer agreed that something was wrong. Yokohama allowed me to trade them in on their Avid V4 tires. They have about 20K miles and have remained quiet with excellent dry and wet traction as well as fair snow traction. Since you have the wagon, I assume you have the 16" wheels?
    I agree with mbdriver and others that the 17" versions probably will get noisy no matter which brand or tread style; it's the nature of very low profile tires. But the 16" tires have a better shot at staying quiet, as mine have. Previous tires were Goodyear LS installed by the dealer when the car was Starmarked. They were just adequate.
    If others are looking for feedback on the Dunlop Sport A2, check the comments in Tire Rack's website. I too thought they might be good for my next set.. There are some pretty vicious comments in there..
    But in looking through Tire Rack's ratings and comments the other day I noticed (as has mbdriver) that the ContiExtremeContact tires seem to be a bargain based upon their ratings and owner feedback. Those may be my next set of tires..
  • jfz219jfz219 Posts: 63
    I guess all of us are changing tires at the same time. I went with Bridgestone Turanz LS-H 215/55-16s on my 2000 E320 after 42,000 miles on the OEM MXV4s. The Turanza has quicker response to steering, softer over pavement seams, and dramatically beter in rain. The noise is slightly less than the originals. Price installed: $440 plus tax.
This discussion has been closed.