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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans

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  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsPosts: 508
    Well, after owning two E-class sedans and seeing how the newer one is less reliable than the older one and since the older wasn't especially reliable, I've decided to avoid MB (until I hit the Lottery and can afford to sell a car when it needs it's first expensive repair!) and go for a more reliable brand. None of which are made in Germany..

    Re: AWD and living in NE.. I've lived in Mass. all my life and have thousands of miles under my belt of driving on snow and ice. I've never had a serious problem with 2 wheel drive, either front or rear. And after owning my current E with ESP, I will NOT buy another car without it. I prefer to avoid AWD/4WD systems due to (Ya got it!) reliability and extra dead weight (increased fuel consumption). More parts equals more failures. I spent most of my life working as a mechanical engineer and can't get away from the idea that simplicity breeds reliability.

    Re: color... That is almost funny... Mine isn't silver, it's the Desert Sand. I got a GREAT deal on it because it sat at my dealer's for 7-8 months and they were going to wholesale it off. But they posted it on AutoTrader as a last resort and I happened to spot it there and went in to my salesman and asked if he would honor that greatly reduced price even though 3 months earlier the best he could do for me was 8 grand more. They accepted but offered me so little for my older E that I then sold my 96 on Autotrader for 2 grand MORE than they offered me and it was a dealer from Florida who bought it and had it shipped directly over to the middle East.. He must have had some Sheiks anxious for a used MB...!! So I ended up getting a my Certified E class for about 55% of the original sticker and got a terrific deal on my old one to boot.. My net cost was about half the price of a new Infiniti M35.. [Not bad for a 27 month old E320!] Bottom line was my dealer couldn't move the car due to the color, in fact, my wife didn't like the color at all. But I am not that hung up on colors and actually, the Desert Sand is great because it really hides the normal dirt..

    I know I'll miss the great ride, but being retired I can no longer afford $800 repair bills every 8-10 months.. So on to an Asian or American brand that costs less to buy and own..

    :cry: :cry: :cry:
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Nice post. I think that if you lived outside Rt 495 you might feel the need for AWD. Living outside 495, I've driven mostly AWD cars for the last 20 years. As a result I wouldn't know ESP from Adam. I do think that a non-AWD car if rationally driven would be fine. Three to six nights a year though, you wouldn't want to go back out after you got home from work. (As I recall, when I was growing up, no one when out after 6:00 PM during the week anyway because nothing was open.)

    In any case, I think that you should look at Volvo S80s. Their bling factor is low and as a result their resale is low. Moreover, there is a new edition now on the market and new versions tend to lower the resale on the old models. All in all, I think a used S80 might offer you good value with its front wheel drive, nice interior, heated seats, safety, some cache when you go to Tanglewood, etc. etc.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    I know I'll miss the great ride, but being retired I can no longer afford $800 repair bills every 8-10 months.. So on to an Asian or American brand that costs less to buy and own..

    May I point out that $800 every 8 months works out to $100/month -- far less than the typical monthly payment on a new mid-priced car? Although I don't have an MB, I do own a 6-yo BMW, so I share your concern about repair costs. But I would happily hang onto my car forever if I could be reasonably sure that it wouldn't cost much more than a hundred per month to do so. (That's 3 bucks & change per day. I could save that much by reining in my coffee habit.)

    Over time, I've come to believe that depreciation is the great destroyer of wealth - more so than post-warranty repair costs. It's usually cheaper to fix what you own than it is to replace it - particularly if you're buying new.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Jimbres, let me chime in and second your thought about the ravages of depreciation. M/B ran an ad about 10 years ago showing that while a new big MB sedan may be 10K more than a big Jag, it actually costs less per mile to own because of the significantly higher resale!

    The luxury sedans all take a big hit when they are three to four years old and about to come off warranty. No one wants one. The drive-to-impress MD/JD/MBA is already into his new leased car (these folks never seem to realize why they have such low net worth compared to their high incomes) and other people fear used lux cars, maybe rightfully so.

    How about this for a strategy. Subsitute some leg work and internet research for the ease in buying something new by buying a CPO luxury car. Before it comes off CPO have it gone over very carefully. Even if you do have some heavy maintenance costs, a two to three year old S Class is now down into the mid to high 40Ks. This is a bargain by anyone's measure. To further refine this strategy, pick something out that has lots of nice features but a lower than usual resale. Like the trouble free '04 and newer Jags and the Volvo S80.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    My approach to acquiring & operating cars has been to buy 'em new & then squeeze out the value by driving them for a long time (at least 8 & as many as 13 years). But your point about buying CPO cars is well taken. With so many fools folks leasing these days, there are lots of lightly-driven cars out there.

    The next time I'm in the market (possibly in '09 - more likely in '10), I'll check out CPO'd Jags. (Not Volvos, though. Drove an S80 a couple of years ago & found it numb & boring.)
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Numb and boring an old style S80 is, but for microrepair and others living in New England who don't want AWD the S80 with its FWD is an alternative. Maybe the only FWD semi-lux car?
  • lex10lex10 Posts: 30
    DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY PLANNED CHANGES FOR THE 2008 E CLASS. I WAS LOOKING TO PURCHASE A 2007 E 350 4 MATIC AND I AM CONTEMPLATING IF I SHOULD WAIT FOR THE 2008?
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    New E Class comes out in MY 2009. Buy a MY2008 and save big buck$ at end of year.

    YMMV
  • jimm5jimm5 Posts: 5
    I’m told that production begins on the 08 E Class the week of June 10.

    Another 08 buyer told me that his dealer said production begins June 1. In any event, it looks like it will be VERY soon now.

    BUT, I have asked and asked and I can’t find out ANYTHING about ANY changes. Please post as soon as you hear anything!

    jimm

    ==========

    On Order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
    Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
    Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps
  • jimm5jimm5 Posts: 5
    I’m trying find out what’s new on the 08 E-class, too.

    jimm

    ==========

    On Order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
    Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
    Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps
  • lex10lex10 Posts: 30
    I curently own a 2003 E500 and I was looking to purchase or lease an 08 E350 but a couple of things troubled me when comparing it to my E500.
    1-The seats in the 350 are MB tex which is not leather, leather is an extra option.
    2-350 feels under powered, which is what I hoped they would correct for 2008 (BMW has 535 with 300 hp turbo)
    3-The suspension in the E500 is the airmatic and this option is not even available in the E350, it is a good option to have in my opinion.
    4-I'm thinking about ordering the E550 now, but I might be better off with E350 because of the gas prices.

    Anyway goodluck with your car sounds like a nice vehicle. Any reason why you didnt get the 4matic?
  • jimm5jimm5 Posts: 5
    I considered the 550 when I decided on the 350 Sport. I have a C6 vette and
    DO like power. However, I drove a 350 Sport and was surprised that it has
    PLENTY of power!

    I think one thing that helps the instant power is its smooth and well geared
    7 speed tranny.

    One dealer told me that they aren’t selling many 550s. Of course they’re
    9,000 more, so that probably isn’t a big surprise. Gas mileage, TODAY, is
    quite important. I think that will effect resale, too.

    jimm

    ==========

    On Order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
    Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
    Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps
  • bazohimbabazohimba Posts: 14
    Mine is scheduled for building on June 28. The dealer expects it to be in Indianapolis by about the middle of July.

    E320 bluetech, white, cashmere MBTex, Premium II, parktronic, wood/leather, voice, split rear seat
  • jimm5jimm5 Posts: 5
    That’s Great! I “think” mine is scheduled for June 10 build. But, my dealer is pissing me off in that he’s not telling me much of anything.

    Have you heard about any changes for 08? I wish they’d put in a new Nav .. like Lesus has.

    jimm

    ==========

    On Order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
    Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
    Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps
  • I recently purchased a 2007 E350 4Matic. It has the MB Tex seats. I think they are vinyl but you would swear they are leather. My other car has 320hp. The E350 feels just as fast. If you haven't taken the E350 for a test drive please do as I think your issues will resolve themselves.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Gee, for a guy who has enough bucks to buy (or is it really just lease?) a MB you have a distinctive way with words. Can we be more business-like?
  • fishfoolsfishfools Posts: 5
    i am contemplating an e350 and debating between an '07 and an '08. for those of you who have a 2008 on order, how much over invoice are you paying? i have a dealer who is willing to sell me a 2007 for $800 over invoice...is that a good deal on a 2007? should i wait for an '08? i live in portland, oregon. thanks.
  • Sorry blckislandguy. I apologize for my keen sense of the English language. Perhaps, I should have forgone my private education and gone to PS24 like you.
    So what is so bad about leasing? I drive a new car every 24 months. Should I feel better about myself driving a 10 year old MB that I own?
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    I'm happy that you went to private schools but lets omit the ad hominems. I didn't have the benefit of a private secondary school education but picked up a lot of education about life in RVN in 1965-67 before going to Cornell on the GI Bill. To describe a dealer (probably in reality an hourly employee, not the dealer-principal) as "pissing me off" because they are able to comply with your requests for information is inappropriate on this forum. I'd hate to see your reaction to a real problem.
  • My total apology. I thought your sarcastic message #6605 was in response to me yet it was actually directed to someone else. I read the "pissing me off" comment and had no idea what you are talking about.
  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsPosts: 508
    I do live outside 495. Well, about 2 miles inside it to be exact but in the central part which is nicknamed the "snowbelt". I can remember driving home from work about 2 in the afternoon when the blizzard of 78 started at noon and by 5pm there was nearly a foot of snow on the roads. I came through all that (20 miles) with a rear wheel drive Dodge Dart and didn't have any real problem. And it didn't even have limited slip. I think I qualify as an experienced winter driver. So I've never even considered owning 4 or AWD. If it's THAT bad, I'll just stay where I'm at...!

    I've looked at Volvos in the past but many of them aren't roomy enough for me (6' 3") and their reliability is pretty bad too. I do fit in the S80 but it isn't as "roomy" as the E320 so I probably wouldn't be comfortable on one of my 3-4K mile trips.

    Others mentioned buying a luxury Certified car. Both of my E320's were Starmarked and I wouldn't have bought them otherwise. Both required expensive repairs during the 50-100K range. The 2001 more so than the 1996...! Quality has been going down in my experience.

    I threw out the $800 repair number as an estimate. My 1996 once out of warranty cost me about $3500 in repairs between 115-120K miles. That's expensive when I'm doing about 19K miles per year.. I don't want to repeat that with the 2001 in the next year or so (95K and counting now). And I haven't been impressed by the resale /trade-in pricing. Maybe that's partly due to the perceived quality drop-off in recent years for MB.

    One luxury Certified car that interests me is the Infiniti M35. On the online auto sites, the few that are available are priced very high. But I'm looking at the 2006 version which is the newer M35. So maybe I'll have to wait a year to get an affordable one. Or buy a lesser car like an certified Avalon.. Time will tell..

    :(
  • rrohrbeckrrohrbeck Posts: 1
    For those that have the E 350 are you happy with the performance or do you wish you had gotten the V8?

    Also if you have the Sport Package would you get it again?

    Thanks.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,586
    For those that have the E 350 are you happy with the performance or do you wish you had gotten the V8?

    Also if you have the Sport Package would you get it again?


    I for one am very happy with the performance of the E350, and do not crave the power of the V8. In addition, I get 21-22 mpg in city and 24-28 mpg in mixed driving, an extra bonus. I love the white instrumentation and exterior effects of the SP. The ride is not excessively stiff and allows spirited performance when desired. The dark wood (not my first choice) that comes with the SP and the expected decreased tire wear are the only drawbacks to it IMHO. That being said, I'd get the SP again. With it being a no charge option, to me it is a no brainer.

    My $.02.
  • I got the sport package on my 350 last fall. I really like the SP looks - exterior and interior. Only complaints:
    Tire noise seems much higher with the low profile tires. This is my biggest issue, and my dealer didn't tell me what to expect.
    Low treadwear - dealer recently told me to expect 12K to 16K depending on how hard I drive it. Front and rear tires are not even same size so you can't rotate. Plus cost to replace tires will be higher.
    I wouldn't do the SP again. Wish I had gotten the 320 CDI.
  • bazohimbabazohimba Posts: 14
    It's hard to know for sure what the 'deals' are, as many have the urge to brag or exaggerate their deal. I would think that $800 over invoice is a good price on an '07. If the car has what you want, it sounds pretty good. If it sits on the lot for a while, it may be had for less.

    My deal is for one I wanted exactly and finding an E320 diesel isn't easy if you want certain things, like the P2 package. The price is based on 4% off MSRP. The actual price isn't known yet, as MB hasn't released the '08 cars yet. Go figure!! My problem is getting a good price for my '05 Cadillac STS4. Hear the usual "They're not selling well right now" excuse.
  • tron1tron1 Posts: 1
    I don't think there is any real change between to 07 to 08. I recent bought the e350 4matic @ 900 dollars under dealer invoice. Had the sport package plus the p1 option. also bought the bluetooth for my phone. Great car I love it. test drove the BMW 2008 535xi, like the car but wasn't comfortable in the cabin, felt very large to me. felt more comfortable in the E350, so I bought it. Dealer finance 2.9 6yrs. The BMW didn't have good financing only got 6.9 from them plus they didn't discount because it was a new 2008. Also i believe BMW controls their inventory better than MB. Its alot of money for a car but I really enjoy it. I bought my car in New Jersey. The dealership was great, second car I bought from them.
    MB is going to redesign the E in 2010. Only difference between the 06 and 07 is the front grille and side mirrors.
  • cychangcychang Posts: 1
    I got a 2007 E-350 with sport package- first flat at 743 miles in May and 2nd flat at 1650 miles in June, both at city street- both Mercedes-Benz and Continental tire ( German made?) are dening any responsibilities- more than $500 out of the window! Any suggestion? advice? CY
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Yup, situation normal. Every manufacturer (Mercedes included) that offers low profile "Sport" tires include a disclaimer that they are much more susceptible to damage from pot-holes, curbs and generally poor condition roads. In your case just be glad that you haven't damaged any wheels (yet), that’s when things start getting really expensive.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help on this but Mercedes and Continental are correct, it isn't their responsibility.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'd agree with Shipo, MB and Continental are probably not technically responsible, but...

    ...I've logged 15,500 miles over 21 months on a Porsche 911S with a fair number of city miles in Washington DC without any flats or problems on 235/35 and 295/30 19" W rated tires. (The rears were replaced due to tread wear at 12,600 miles - but that is considered normal and the tread wear was very even).

    I suggest that when it comes time to replace the Continentals, you shop around and do some research. Continentals are generally considered to be the worst quality brand of tire, at least for higher performance tires. I have Pirelli's on my 911, but Michelin's were also highly recommended by my dealer.

    Another consideration might be to go for a harder compound in a H or V rated tire next time around (assuming sizes match). The E350 is a sedan, not a sports car and I seriously doubt that too many people could tell the difference in handling between a good H/V rated tire and a W/Y/Z rated one. If they can, they should probably be driving an E63 (or, better yet, 911S).
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    As a general comment to those considering the sport package on an E350, you might want to factor in tire replacement costs into the equation. According to Tire Rack, the 18" Sport Package tires, in Michelin Pilot Sports, will run about $1,150 a set, not including shipping or installation (figure $1,400 installed). Life expectancy = 12-15k miles (cannot be rotated). The standard 17" tires, in Pirelli's will run about $600 a set (figure $750 installed). Life expectancy 35k+ miles (can be rotated).

    A golfing buddy of mine recently bought a E350 Sport off the lot, rather than a E550 non-sport. Part of his reason was the better gas mileage for the E350. He got the sport package, because he liked the look and they had it in the color and other options that he wanted. On the 19th hole, I bet him that the additional tire cost on his E350 Sport would eat up all of the gas savings from not going with the E550. He drives 15-18k miles a year and plans on keeping the car 6 years, 100k miles (bought an extended warranty).

    Here are the numbers we came up with:

    Gas Savings: E550 average mpg = 18; E350 average = 23. (His estimate from talking with other owners with similar driving habits). For 100k miles = 5,555 gals in E550 vs. 4,350 in E350. Gas savings with E350 = $4,000 +/- (1,205 gallons at $3.35).

    Added Tire Cost: 100k miles = 6 sets of replacement tires at total of $1,400 per set on E350 = $8,400. 2-3 sets of replacements at $750 total on E550 = $1,500 - $2,250. Difference = $6,200 to $6,900. :surprise: :surprise:

    So, for anyone considereing getting an E350 over an E550 because of gas prices, you might want to hold off on the Sport Package, since it is very likely to cost you substantially more (50-75% more by our calculations) than the gas savings you will get with the 6 vs. 8 cylinder engine. A 30% savings at the gas pump gas won't cover a 400%+ increase in tire costs.

    Feel free to check my math. My number crunching friend did several ways and I won the 19th hole drinks and dinner bet. ;)

    P.S. Perhaps this is why the Sport Package is free. If I were Pirelli or Michilen, I'd give you those larger rims for free and make it up in selling tires. Kind of like the $99 HP printer that takes $50 in ink catridges every 2 months.
This discussion has been closed.