Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

twistinmelon

"The reviews I read about new Corolla are disappointing to say the least"

Will you please provide links (or, if offline, issue dates) to these? I've read Car and Driver, who indicated the '03 Corolla was not exciting, but handled and drove exceptionally well and was put together with a degree of solidity Lexus exhibited just a few years ago.

I am a Honda fan, but with the latest edition of the Civic having a fair share of shortcomings I am seriously considering alternatives such as the new Corolla and the Mazda Protege. (and I will own the vehicle for 7-10 years so the resale isn't really a big issue for me)

twist

seminole_kev

have been fairly favorable to the new Corolla. Not the greatest handler, but not bad either and a much better all around car. I'll be curious if Toyota offers it as a hatch here in the states. Also, on that same idea, is Honda going to start selling the 5-door version of the Civic here? Or a regular (non-Si) 3-door?

cwliang

Over in the Corolla board they've said that the new Corolla is switching from an independent strut setup to a rear axle beam setup, but Toyota figures that the population buying the car won't really care -- unlike the Civic fans who were pissed about the wishbone to strut move that the Civic made this year. I think the most compelling argument that the Corolla is making is in price, where the loaded Corolla is supposedly around $17,000 MSRP, compared to the Civic EX's $18,500+. Of course, I guess invoice is probably a better judge of how much you eventually pay, but if the top-of-the-line Corolla is going to undercut the top-of-the-line Civic by almost $2k, you gotta think people are going to be switching... Though personally if the driving feel of the new Corolla is anything like the old one, well, I'll take the Civic any day, rattles and all.

sobers

The Corolla suspension is no longer going to be independent. Also, they are not at all inclined to go after 2 door or hatchback market. Sporty Corolla is going to be a pseudo-car i.e. S trim with some BS add ons (underbody spoiler etc) instead of a better suspension etc....

Last time I checked Corolla had slalom of 56mph & the new Civic had 62.xxmph. (which was also better than Sentra 2.0SE) (MotorTrend test)

The new Corolla looks quite a bit odd also with the height increase. Toyota itself is not interested in publicity for Corolla as it is covered by most magazines as a side bar along with new Matrix review. Sales target is 220,000 per year (including fleet/rental sales)

Basically rightnow there os hardly any copetition for Civic in the compact car market

twistinmelon

Hardly any competition for the Civic in the compact car market?

Civic sales were 332k in 2001.

http://www.hondacars.com/news/attachments.html?y=2002&r=770

Corolla is projected at 2/3 that level, with another 70k expected for the Matrix if my memory is correct. Mazda Protege gaining converts, with major redesign coming. Hyundai Elantra gaining a lot of converts. Ford still pumping out a lot of Focuses (Foci?) in a bunch of different flavors. VW doing okay too.

Also, there are already drawings of a 3 door matrix/corolla hatch floating around the web.

If you want to say there's hardly any competition for the Civic in your heart, that's great. But to talk about hard numbers and then claim there's no competition... I gotta wonder where you're coming from.

twist

backy

The Focus is the best selling car in the world. Does that count as competition?

Re hatchback/sporty Corollas... the Matrix has a rear hatch, and is pretty sporty with its 180 hp and 6-speed gearbox. In comparison, the almost-here Si has 160 hp.

Toyota is not interested in publicity for the Corolla??? Is that why it was showcased at the huge Detroit Auto Show, the biggest in North America? Check out C/D's current issue if you want to see a full review of the '03 Corolla. (Matrix is reviewed also, in a secondary article.)

Re suspensions--the all-new '01 Civic's rear suspension was so great that Honda had to fix it already for '02. Let's wait and see how the new Corolla's beam axle feels on the road before we condemn it.

lngtonge18

I finally saw an example of what some people have been complaining about with the rear suspension being too bouncy. I watched an intersection while waiting at a stoplight that had a good sized dip in the middle of road. Cars were travelling at approximately 30 mph when they hit this dip. Every car, including an 80s Buick Century, went up and down the full length of their suspension travel exactly one time. However, when an 01 Civic hit the dip, the front suspension bottomed out harshly (the guy inside was jostled quite abruptly) and the rear bounced 3 times before it settled down. This must be what owners have been complaining about. It looked like the shocks had no rebound damping whatsoever, as if there was just a spring (the wheels almost looked they left the ground). I can see how people would be disappointed with these obviously limp rear shocks.

mdriver

You are correct in your observation of the Civic's suspension. I occasionally follow another 01/02 Civic and see the rear jiggling and wallowing constantly. Who said the suspension was "fixed" for 02? It hasn't been fixed enough. It still floats way too much. Honda got this suspension totally and completely wrong. The ride is the worst in its class and is worse than a friends 91 Civic HB (with 90k miles), which has a ride that is controlled and composed, but not overly firm. Every generation Civic has been an improvement in terms of suspension over the previous, except in the 01/02, which is a disaster.

Advice to Honda: Supply powertrains to other manufacturers and leave the car making ability to them. A Focus with a Honda powertrain would be a great combination.

seminole_kev

I'll keep the Focus as it is. Can I just get Honda to assemble it? ;-)

devore

I've got a '01 Civic, and I've posted a few times here about what I think is the problem with the rear suspension. Yes, if you drive over something like railroad tracks in the middle of a curve, the rear end will "jitter" and lose composure. This _is_ pretty irritating and makes me lose confidence in the car handling bumpy turns well enough.

But come on - I really find two things hard to believe in your post, Ingtonge18. And for perspective, before I got my 01 Civic, I was driving a 93 Buick LeSabre, so I'm familiar with mushy suspensions (can anyone say "Dynaride"? ).

1. The front end of the Civic "bottomed out" in a dip and the driver was "jostled abruptly"? Like I said, I've driven cars with mushy suspensions, and I've been driving my Civic for about a year now, and I've _never_ "bottomed out" the suspension, or been "abruptly jostled" in the driver's seat. I find this _really_ hard to believe, going 30MPH - I mean, your description sounds like the person drove off of a curb or something, not a dip in the road.

2. The rear end bounced "3 times" before settling down. Seriously - I can't imagine _any_ car bouncing up and down three times before settling. This would mean that if I go out to my car right now and jump as hard as I can down on the rear end, when I jump off I should see the thing bounce up and down like a pogo stick, and this isn't what I see happen. I think this is a pretty gross exaggeration, IMHO.

Like I said, I've driven a Buick before this, and while the supension on the Civic is by no means perfect, it is nowhere NEAR the mushiness and rockiness and boatlike feel of something like a Buick (which you said you also saw go over this dip.)

I just take issue with people overstating the severity of the problem. Does the Civic have suspension problems? Yeah, the 01 definitely loses composure when going through turns and hitting bumps in the road. But I've never had mine "bottom out" (nor have I had _any_ issues with the front suspension), or been "abruptly jostled", or had the [non-permissible content removed] end of the car "bounce three times." I think these exaggerations unfairly characterize the car and pull attention away from REAL suspension issues, like the jittering that I mentioned.

Still, all of this is just my opinon. YMMV.

sobers

- Bouncing 3 times
- Bottomed out at 30mph, abruptly jostled

It is really entertaining! & oops....Did I read it right ? Buick (that too 80s) settled just fine....!!! Hummmmmm

sobers

Yes with 2001/2002 Civic does have a suspension 'problem' or better word a trait to bounce a "bit" where Pre 2001 Civic would not! This is prob'ly due to the flat-floor thing Honda wanted to get in 4 Door Civic. I myself find it absurd to continue it with Civic Coupe & also RSX. Who would want a rear flat floor in RSX ?? RoadnTrack also found RSX rear suspension a bit weired where it lifets the rear tire off the pavement when hurried through the slalom (even then it has slalom more than 64 with stock tires!)

Now having trailing arms on Coupe (which were removed for flatfloor, bigger gas tank & trunk) would make it more expensive to produce Civics & would offset the cost savings done by the front struts.

Rather, I have heard almost universal praise for the front suspension on Civic (except the outcry that it is difficult to modify) even its strut & not bones but ther ARE reports of a bit bouncing of the rear suspension which still has basic wish bone design.

isellhondas

Yes, I do have a better idea. Forget the auto dimming mirror! A Cadillac we once owned had one of these and it drove me nuts! Always adjusting itself back and forth. Switched it off and left it off!

But...if you insist...

I don't think your Honda dealer would be excited about installing an aftermarket electronic item.

But, ask! maybe they will.

Your warranty shouldn't be affected unless some bozo screws up the electrical system with a sloppy installation job.

isellhondas

I'm well aware of this and don't think it's a big deal.

Prior to 2001, there were some people who complained that the Civics rode too rough.

So, to please these folks, Honda softened the rear suspension on the 2001's.

Too much? Perhaps...depends on the driver/owner.

So, a revised suspension was put int the 2002's.

Seems like a good set of stiff aftermarket shocks would firm up a 2001 and please everyone.

lngtonge18

You can pretend you know exactly what a suspension can and cant do and accuse other people falsely of lying and overexaggerating. BUT, you weren't there and that was my true observation. I don't purposely try to slam a car by exaggerating or post all out lies like some people do. The Civic's read end did bounce a total of 3 times before it stopped. I'm not saying the car went through its complete upward and downward movement 3 times; rather, it did that once and then did 2 smaller movements. If the shocks were up to the task, they would have kept the 2 smaller movements from occuring. A severe dip in the road is not like jumping up and down on your bumper (please, 200 pounds of downward force can't duplicate road condition forces on 2500 pounds worth of steel). This dip is shaped in a way that it goes down and then suddenly up (but the road is relatively smooth). The right kind of dip can bottom out even the firmest suspension. As for the difference between firm and soft suspensions, a soft suspension means the car's shocks will handle a bump slower and usually with more movement. The Buick Century's rear shocks did move more and a lot slower then the other cars I saw (besides the Civic), but it had enough rebound damping to keep the shock from doing another upward movement (you people just don't realize how obsessed I am with cars and how much time I actually spend studying the differences while just driving around. This is not coming out of my butt; I just honestly enjoy watching cars and seeing their differences). That's what I feel is the problem with the Civic's rear shocks. They don't have enough rebound damping, which is different from compression damping. If they dialed in a little more resistance into the rebound damping but left the compression damping alone, I think they could easily get rid of the bounce and jitteriness some have complained about. As for the front suspension, it stopped going up abruptly (appearing to hit its bump stop) and then quickly moved back down. Every other car required a lot of suspension movement as well, but did not so quickly and suddenly stop going up. In other words, the other cars appeared to handle the dip with more aplomb. The smaller cars obviously jostled their occupants a lot more then the bigger cars, but the Civic's driver was visibly moved up and down in his seat. Granted this is an extreme case, but it did show the downside of the softer rear shocks on the 01 models and proved to me that the complaining owners do have a legitimate problem with it. I was just trying to let them know they weren't crazy or imagining things

sobers

Hummm!!

Why would I pretend something.....there are 400,000 2001+ Civics on the street. The civic sales are supposed to rise to 350 this year with addition of Civic SI. There IS a 'bit' boucing problem with the new Civic....but maybe not for 90% of the people who drive them! Previously many of my friend used to complain about harshness or the rough ride civic had(according to them!)

I guess you can not satisfy EVERYBODY with a redesign! Anyway for performance seekers CIvic SI is coming...Lets see how it holds....

devore

I think I may actually be just as obsessed about subtle stuff like the rebound as you are, because after reading your second detailed description of what happened, I can imagine it. Your first description didn't give me enough detail.

I agree with your suggestion about dailing up the rebound dampening and can see how that might make the car feel a little more composed. There's a dip that I go over on the way to work in the morning, and I think maybe there I do feel the [non-permissible content removed] end of the car bounce a bit.

Still, to me, the rebound hasn't really bothered me - it's the "jittering" and loss of composure going over small bumps in a turn that's worrisome. Not sure what could be done to fix that aspect of the suspension.

I guess what I mean is that I see the "bounciness" as kind of an owner preference thing - you can either like or not. But the jittering could potentially be dangerous. I wonder if the 2002 models still jitter?

Thanks for the comments...

jimcarr

What I really am interested in is getting a reliable compass and outside temperature measuring device.

Should have been a little more clear, I guess, but I just had too much bouncing going on in the rear when I went over the railroad tracks and just lost it.

Please forgive me.

cwliang

Well, for what it's worth, after having driven my '02 EX sedan around the pothole-ridden streets of Baltimore for almost a month, I think that the suspension isn't that bad. I can vouch for the jostled nature of the driver over a number of different sized bumps -- this is something that was never as pronounced on my old Camry, but it DOES happen in a 2000 Accord I've driven over the same streets. The bouncing is slightly worse in the Civic but has the same 'feel' or 'quality' as in the Accord, and I just attributed it to a common feel among Hondas. Handling-wise, my car has been solid; I've driving the car over lots of bumps on curves at high (50+ mph) speeds, and 90% of the time it doesn't require a steering adjustment... usually only if I hit a Texas-sized pothole do I get a little worried, and that is mainly from my paranoia at destroying my new car. One handling characteristic I do like is that while the wheel is well-weighted so you don't have to hold onto it real tight on the highway, at the same time it is pretty sensitive so that a quick jerk on the wheel will cause the car to move in that direction quickly and accurately.

So, bottom line, jostling over bumps, yes, but I've not yet experienced the floaty nature of the suspension, so far it's just been pretty firm. And handles pretty good... maybe not as stable as the Accord at speed, but still better overall (IMHO) than most of the small cars out there that I test drove...

civic_cx_92

Honda is coming out with a Hybrid Civic this year.
http://www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/hondanews13.htm#pilot2

"Sales of the gas-electric hybrid version of its Civic compact car in the U.S. will be between 20,000 units and 24,000 units annually, Amemiya said.
The automaker earlier this month unveiled the Civic hybrid in Japan for 2.09 million yen ($16,330) and said the company plans to release the model in the U.S. in early 2002.
The five-seat Civic hybrid, Honda's second hybrid model, went on sale in Japan on Dec. 14 with a monthly sales target of 500 units.
Honda released the Insight hybrid in the U.S. at the end of 1999 and sold a total of 8,300 units in 2000 and 2001, the company said."
http://www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/hondanews13.htm#hybr

"Honda indicated a fuel consumption of up to 3.4 l/100km (29 km/l) or about 68 mpg(US)."

If Honda can keep the 4 door civic price around $16~17K, it is a good option against $20k 52/45 mpg Toyota Prius.

sobers

Similar to regular Civic in price & features & the utility I guess Civic Hybrid is going to be a serious compact car in the market! I guess they will change $18500 for it or may be more for CVT ?

With manual transmission it will give 55/60mpg in the city! 0-60 is 10.5 sec

silver_bullet

With gasoline as cheap as it is in this country, I can't imagine very many people are going to want a $19K+ Civic. Unless you drive a crazy number of miles each year, the economics just aren't there. I live in a big city (Houston) with long commutes, yet you almost never see an Insight or a Prius -- they are answering a question that no one around here has asked.

civic_cx_92

"The 2003 Civic Hybrid equipped with standard alloy wheels, ABS and side airbags is expected to cost approximately $20,000. Sales are expected to average about 2,000 vehicles a month."
from hondanews.com
Civic EX 4dr 5-sp with side airbag cost $17,260 MSRP, need to add alloy wheels.
One hybrid sale out of 15~18 regular Civics sounds reasonable to me.

rfruth

Gas is cheap at the pumps but when you consider the real cost its astronomical, I also live in Houston & have seen very few hybrids on the road but to me that says Houston is satisfied with what we now have not that decreasing our dependence on foreign oil isn't needed.

mdriver

Saying the Civic suspension is "not bad" isn't good enough today. It's not that the Civic is overly soft, it just has very little rebound damping in the back. You don't have to drive over a pot hole to feel it. In fact, pot holes are no problem to the Civic's rear. It's smooth but slightly undulating roads that keep the Civic's rear jumping up and down about an inch or so. It's obvious when your headlight beams also move up and down in unison. The problem is definitely NOT fixed on the 02s. You only have to drive an Elantra after driving a Civic to see how bad the Civic really is. Obviously, nobody at Honda thought they needed to do that comparison because, hey, Honda can't do anything wrong, right? The "90 %" of people who "don't mind the ride" probably bought a Honda because it's a Honda and that's what they've been doing for years. That worked for Chevy too, for a while. I rest my case.

silver_bullet

I didn't mean to imply that a lack of interest in hybrids was a good thing, that's for sure, but the reality is that most Americans are too much in love with cheap gas and monster trucks. Until something happens to force people out of their gas guzzlers and into more efficient alternatives, you aren't going to see many hybrids on the road.

isellhondas

You are whistling in the dark.

Although I do respect your opinion, VERY few people share it.

And...the 2002 rear suspension is a lot firmer.

backy

Does the Hybrid have a battery pack? Anyone know how long the battery pack lasts and how much a replacement costs? If the battery is expensive and needs to be replaced every few years, that cost must be factored into the equation also. I agree with the sentiment that until gas prices increase significantly in the U.S. (and that could happen pretty quickly), there will be little demand for a $20,000 hybrid of a car that can be had with better performance for $15,000.

lngtonge18

Every hybrid has some sort of battery pack. In the Insight's case, the battery pack is under the floor in the hatch area and is guaranteed to last 80k miles. The replacement cost is supposedly around 3k though. So it is expensive to replace, but lasts awhile at least. The Civic hybrid is going to use an almost identical setup as the Insight, but with a larger, more powerful 4 cylinder.

mdriver

The only way you will change attitudes in the U.S. is to do what the rest of the world has done. Make driving more expensive, namely put a high tax on fuel. In Europe, fuel is taxed at about 75%. That makes it about $4/gal (some European countries higher, some lower, but most close to this price). Know how many people drive Explorers in Europe? Hardly any. And diesels with the lower European emission diesel fuel (not sold in the U.S.) are becoming the dominant engine. But what would happen to the big three here, if gas was $4/gal? They would suffer huge losses because their main profits are in trucks. The imports would win because they are dominant in smaller more efficient cars. We can talk about hybrids all day. But few will touch them unless their wallets are squeezed at the gas pump.

dsgecho

As a prius owner I would like to say- don't tell that to all the folks who have had to wait 4-6 months for this car. Far as I understand it, the factory that mekes them is at full caoacity. Bet there will be a waiting list for the Honda HEV also.Having said all that,don't think we would be worried as mich about emissions and needless, wasteful gas guzzling or the need for hybrids if everyone drove regular Honda civics that are ULEV rated. Great cars when you think of the safety ratings combined.
Don Gillespie

isellhondas

The Insight battery pack should go ten years or more. They do have a 8/80 warranty.

I also heard the other day that rebulit battery pack will be available for much less money.

civic_cx_92

50% smaller battery on new Civic hybrid.

"Another significant improvement (when compared to the Insight IMA system) is the combination of the Power Control Unit (the computer "brains" of the system) and the battery pack. This combination reduces the system volume by 50 percent and has allowed designers to locate the Civic Hybrid's IMA equipment with greater packaging freedom - behind the rear seat in the trunk where it has a very minimal impact on trunk cargo volume and no impact on the Civic sedan's interior volume."

http://www.hondabeat.com/news/civic_03_hybrid.cfm

tatdotcom

i need some techie info on my engine. i have a 5-speed with no tachometer and i would like to know the limits of the engine and transmission. how many rpm's is the redline for this engine and what are the speed limits to the redline for each or the 5 gears?

thanks.

jjpcat

With GOP (especially those from TX) sitting in the White House, I don't see any chance we will have a higher gas tax. They will rather dig up the environment protection area in Alaska.

bordsource

I still think the rear suspension is too soft and bouncy, but I don't feel as strongly as I once did. At first, it seems like the car bounces over just about everything. Now, it's not quite as bad. Bumps are absorbed okay, and I have NEVER bottomed the car, no matter how fast I was going. What throws the car off balance are dips. Large dips produce a school-bus Whoopee! sensation in the back of the car, and small dips, parituclarly ones spaced close together (which are often found at heavily traveled intersections) cause the car to pogo and jiggle in a rather unsettling manner. The ride could use improvement, basically. I prefer the firmer, more controlled sense of the pre-'01 car here.
In handling, though, I've come to see the two as nearly equal. The older cars seem faster, and feel more confidence inspiring. They make friends with the driver much quicker than the '01-02s. Nevertheless, I've come to discover that the new cars are no less capable than their predecessors; they're simple less confidence-inspiring. Bumps in mid corner will result in the car losing some composure; however, it won't lose an inch of path direction. You'll feel the steering wheel twitch and the tires roll, but you'll get where you want to go without having to scrub much speed. It's taken a year, but I can now keep up with my friend in his '95. The drive is more relaxed and secure in his car, but it's no faster.

The best way to drive this car quickly is to learn to anticipate a different responses from the front and rear of the car. It takes awhile to get used to.

bordsource

I figure the only true bad points in a car are the ones strong enough to still be bad after a significant amount of time, in my case 13 mos, & 19000 miles. The Civic has lots of formidable competition around, that's true, but I don't think that any of them quite match the Civic's blend of performance, economy, and safety. Mazda will probably make it with the next-generation Protege.

My gripes after 19000 miles are short:

Biggest complaint is the lack of interior storage. There is NOWHERE to put CDs in this car. I'm sorry, but space for 3 isn't enough, and I shouldn't have to use doors to store CD jewel cases (the door pockets are a tad shallow for this anyway).

It'd be nice to have more adjustments on the driver's seat. If only the seat front would tilt up & down...maybe a telescoping wheel (think tall)

I now have to retract my earlier statement and say that my biggest gripe is the lack of remote entry to the trunk. The trunk, of all places, should be remote entry! If whatever you have is bulky enough to be in the trunk, then you probably need your HANDS FREE! DUH!

The rest are minor: lack of passenger side armrest(can't stand it when people reach over to put their elbow on my armrest), noisy (you get used to cranking the stereo), & no low-end torque (it's a Honda, what do you expect? Just give it more gas).

One little thing that I've come to appreciate: plastic bumpers & fenders. I've been swiped once, swiped something once, and hit something once. In all three instances, paint was left on my fender. And inall three instances, I was able to buff out the paint using $1.50 Armor All Rubbing Compound. Now, I could do that for the entire body; the thing is, with the fenders being plastic, you can rub away without fears of swirling paint or rubbing off clearcoat; it's plastic.

rfruth

not sure about 95 DX but my 00 DX owners manual (D16Y7, plain ole 1.6 L non VTEC engine) recommended shift points reads "drive in the highest gear that lets the engine run & accelerate smoothly" 1st to 2nd 9-15 MPH, 2nd to 3rd 20-27 MPH, 3rd to 4th 33-39 MPH, 4th to 5th 48-53 MPH then it goes on to describe the engine speed limiter.

lngtonge18

Max speed possible in all the gears are as follows: 1st: 35; 2nd: 63; 3rd: 96; 4th: 111; 5th: 105. These speeds are what can be attained by utilizing the engine's redline or rev limiter. Top speed is achieved in 4th gear, not fifth. I forget what the redline is, but it's somewhere between 6300-6600 rpms.

tatdotcom

thanks for the info.

wow! that is surprising. that sounds pretty fast for each gear, especially 1st and 2nd. i went 45 on 2nd once and i thought i was pushing it. the engine was screaming already.

is it bad to push a honda engine so far? i hear that it's good to let the rpm's go high, that it makes the engine run smoother. how much truth is there to that statement and will it cause the the car to have more frequent repairs? to me, it doesn't make sense... when something is pushed to its limit, anything will break down faster.

sobers

I have a very different suggestion for you..!

MP3 PLayer 7 MP3 cds!! Put 150 songs on one CD & use MP3 player with the std cassette player on the Lx!! Decent MP3 playesr are available for decent $$.

bigkahunafl

My car was kept over-night because of the driver's seat back rocking. About 9 month ago I reported it to the dealer that does most of my service. They claim they tighten the bolts and it did last for a few weeks before the rocking returned. Since I was taking my car back to the dealer I purchased it from for the semi-annual free paint sealant application, I brought it to their attention. About an hour later they came to me and told me about a service bulletin regarding the seat. Appears there is a problem with some bushings. If anyone else is having a problem with the seat, PLEASE go see your dealer.

As a result, they needed to order the parts and they gave me a rental car for a day. It's Saturn and it didn't take me long before I wanted my Civic back. Talk about a big difference in quality! Saturn in no way compares to a Civic. Can't wait to return this car.

Also, I have to agree with Brodsource about the remote access to the trunk. I would have paid extra just have that feature.

bigkahunafl

I think it's kind of stupid that they don't offer an upgrade software patch to our current cd players to play mp3's. It's nothing more then a decoding program. Even the DVD players under $150 play MP3's.

rfruth

I have a 00 silver metallic Civic and its been great now need some touch-up paint, anyone have some silver they want to get rid of ? Rob (let her spin) Fruth

cwliang

Rob - Don't have any silver paint, but you can try www.handaaccessories.com, they have lots of OEM stuff (relatively) cheap...

Well, it's just about been a month with my Civic, and I can say I still like my car a lot. I like the road feel and handling of the car (not as good as the Accord though, IMHO) and wonder how much better the previous generation was. I don't like the intermittent rattling that seems to be coming from the rear deck and sometimes from the dash. But the rattling does not occur all the time, and usually goes away when the car warms up.

I'm wondering, do many people here modify their cars, like some of the other Civic boards elsewhere on the web, or did most of the people here just buy the car as a commuter?

diploid

My dealer wants $380 + tax. Sounds reasonable?

tatdotcom- I rev mine daily on the highway (you gotta - how else are you going to get up to speed with the traffic?). Have no major problems so far. I will, however, extend the warranty by buying the additional 7 year. My friend says his Civic started having problems after 5 years (the car is 10 years old now).

cwliang

What sort of fuel economy are people getting with their Civics? I got about 30 new, but this last fill-up I measured only 26 (I did drive the car a little harder after I got out of the first 1000 miles). The EPA numbers on my sedan are 31/38 and I drive probably about 70% city and 30% highway, so I'm thinking it's a little low...

backy

I wouldn't worry too much about lower mpg on just one tank. There are many variables that can affect the mileage on just one tank of gas, e.g. a cold snap, more idling and stop-and-go driving than usual, more "pushing" of the car than before, etc. Also, if you have not checked tire pressure recently you may want to do that; pressure drops by about 1 psi for each 10 degree drop in temperature, and of course lower air pressures hurt mpg.

strager

I always thought the Corolla was never any competition for the Civic. But after checking out the 2003 Corolla, I'll say Toyota has a reasonable chance at getting the bestselling small car title away from the Civic(assuming they got rid of the numb steering on the Corolla). I think Honda made a big mistake with their conservative redesign of the Civic...the styling is BORING and looks tired already.

bigkahunafl

I have been keeping track of my mpg since I got my car a year ago this month. I now have just over 15,000. I have a EX Sedan with automatic and am averaging 35 mpg with about 60% highway. When I keep it on or below 70mph I get the best milage. When I do 80+, I drop down to about 32-33 mpg.