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Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • civic2001civic2001 Posts: 30
    I bought an EX back in May. The main reason was for the ABS. Even though I have never had to rely on this safety feature, I considered it as a necessary requirement. In addition, the one I bought also came with side air bags (not sure if it is an option on the LX). Civic is a rather small car, any extra protection ought to be worthwhile.
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    Alas, the good people at Honda thought it wise not to give you the option of adding ABS on the LX. But at least you can add side air bags so that when your non-ABS equipped Civic LX slides into another vehicle, you will be protected.
  • bordsourcebordsource Posts: 95
    I changed mine at 5000 only because my daily commute is less than about 8 miles one way. I got my car on 12/1. For an entire month, the temperature here didn't get above freezing and in fact was somewhere in the teens. So obviously, driving less than 8 miles or so in 15 degree weather isn't exactly good on an engine. So I felt it necessary to go with the "severe" driving schedule and change mine at 5000. I'm sure there are those out there, however, that could very well do the 10,000. Highway miles aren't too stressful, ya know?
  • carguy62carguy62 Posts: 545
    ABS while it has its benefits also has its problems such as actually increasing stopping distance on certain surfaces. So your feeling that the non ABS Civic will slide into another vehicle may actually occur more with the ABS equipped one. If ABS is so important to a buyer they have to take what they can get with Honda (i.e. buy the EX) or they go to another manufacturer. You seem to want Honda to go the GM or Toyota route, a base car with a thousand options. I (and many others) prefer Honda's way, it may not be perfect for everyone but it works pretty well.

    And regarding Mazda, nice cars but their resale is nonexistent. I see '00 626's with a V6 going for $10-12K. A similar '00 Accord would got for what, 18-20K?. Keep a car forever and it doesn't matter but even a huge discount up front for Mazda isn't going to negate the resale difference.
  • gasguzzgasguzz Posts: 214
    "may actually occur more with the ABS equipped one". Now, how much of that is true on a current generation ABS system. Or, does that occur in 99% of daily driving conditions (how many of us here drive on the 1% or less rate). Isn't ABS's emphasis on ACCIDENT-AVOIDANCE (as in CONTROL in rain/snow and ergo stopping shorter). Mechanically (all else being equal), an ABS equipped car is superior to the same model without.
    Sure, the Civic has its own "problems" when it comes to braking and stopping. One is the attribute of the smaller contact patch (with the stock tires). But, that really has nothing to do with the ABS itself.
  • laurakatlaurakat Posts: 69
    I test drove a LX 5spd last Friday and really liked the car. The engine was smooth and the shifter was awsome. I'm probably going to decide on a new small car within the next month. I'm leaning toward the Civic, mainly because I use to own one and loved it (it was a 1990 model that I bought new and sold 6 years later w/ 130k miles on it. It held up extremely well). However, I need to test drive the competition (Protoge, Sentra, Elantra, Focus, etc) to see how they stack up.

    My question is what have some of you paid for a 2001 LX 5spd? Edmunds list the TMV at $14123, but Carsdirect list their price at approx. $14400. I've also been keeping up on this forum and have heard of other deals below $14k. Have many of you been getting around the Edmund's TMV for this car?

    Thanks in advance for your input!
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    Regardless of your views on ABS, Honda should still give the consumer the OPTION to have it on the LX. Why did they give the consumer the option to have side air bags only?? In the UK, Honda has the wisdom to make ABS standard on all Civic hatchbacks (even the base model).

    laurakat: Make sure you drive a Hyundai Elantra before deciding. Although the Hyundai carries many negative connotations, it is remarkably competitive. Build quality is as good as a Civic, it is quieter, has a better ride, more power and many items not found on the Civic like: break-away mirrors (heated too). Cost is thousands less than a Civic (which should make you forget about the resale value) and the best feature is the 5yr/60mo b to b warranty. As a Honda fan, I have to admit that from initial driving impressions the Elantra is a better car than the new Civic.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    Here in Northern Calif urban markets [SF and Sacramento areas], an LX manual transmission car, either sedan or coupe, would definitely be a sub-$14k deal...specifically on the order of $13.6-$13.8k, depending on all of the usual factors: size of inventory, time of month, number of dealers in the area, etc.

    Carsdirect rarely has the lowest prices around these days, though again, remember the fundamental rule: ALL PRICING IS LOCAL. There is no such thing as a TMV that can be applied nationwide, as Edmunds tries to do...not to mention the market changes from one week to the next, if not daily.
  • laurakatlaurakat Posts: 69
    Thanks for the replies!

    mdriver: Actually, the Elantra is next on my list to test drive. I have to admit, I did have some negative connotations against Hyundai. My wife had a '90 Excel, which was a piece of sh** compared to my '90 civic. However, I've been impressed with the reviews the new Elantra has received. Also, I've been following the civic vs. elantra forum and have heard many convincing arguments.

    jrct9454: It must be the area. I live in the Twin Cities metro area of MN. I've only checked out one dealer so far, but the civics seem to fly off the lot at a fairly good pace. I quess they are in greater demand here. Any input from other Twin Cities residents on what they paid?

    Thanks.
  • newcivnewciv Posts: 22
    Take a look at the latest offset crash test results. I've been hearing lately by some of you on this thread how great the 2001 Hyundai Elantra is and how much better it is than the Honda Civic. Now, I'm no expert in Vehicle Safety, and I know neither are you guys, so why don't we agree to rely on the IIHS for their opinions:

    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_small.htm


    It shows how much safety engineering went into the Elantra...... NONE ! Piss-poor structure, piss-poor occupant kinematics..... shall I continue ?


    Oh, and by the way, look at what position the 2001 Civic resides.... Sure am glad I'm driving a Civic !!


    NewCiv

  • gasguzzgasguzz Posts: 214
    you started it so I'll give it my 2 cents (been biting my tongue). Yes, there are posters here lately on how great the Hyundai is.
    Back in '98 I had a job which took me to Korea at the client's Hyundai Sonata line. Part of our deliverables was QA/QE and we were delighted that their job 1 was low-price before engineering (our project would be accepted in a 2-wk schedule and we could come home). One TGIF after 5 (and drinks), our be-friended took us to a research lab. There on the floor was a car in pieces and we asked why... "how you say, reverse-engineering" said the engineer - it was an Accord.
    Not quite done he drove us back to our hotel in the company XG300 (here) - until it overheated. Oh, yes, the leather/wood and cd-changer was nice.
  • laurakatlaurakat Posts: 69
    That was an eye-opener! I wasn't aware of the IIHS's off-set test score results on small cars. My mind is pretty well set on the new Civic since I liked the way it felt when I test-drove it. This may help confirm my decision. I will still look at the Elantra and other models just to keep an open mind.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    While the Civic has clearly demonstrated its superiority in crash tests, let's at least stick to the facts here, OK? If you will read the IIHS test results on the '01 Elantra, you'll see that it received high marks for structural integrity--no expletives concerning the engineering of its structure are warranted. The problems that the test uncovered were a late-deploying driver's air bag on two of three tests, which allowed the driver's head to hit the steering wheel, and a driver's seat track that allowed the seat to move forward a few inches, causing "injury" to the dummy's leg and foot. These are definitely issues that Hyundai needs to address, but they can be dealt with fairly easily--including a recall to take care of existing cars. The one thing that would be difficult if not impossible to fix without a full redesign, structural integrity, held up well, and demostrates that Hyundai did put considerable effort into the saftey engineering of the body structure but needs more attention to things like air bag sensors and seat tracks. Interestingly, this is the second problem the Elantra has had with air bags, along with the early recall on side airbags--which performed flawlessly in the IIHS tests, proving air bag problems can be fixed.

    If people stop buying Elantras until the saftey problems are fixed, so much the better... a little extra incentive to Hyundai to get it done.
  • plumeplume Posts: 7
    I have now decided that the EX is worth the extra cost. I am trading a vehicle and received a deal $100 over invoice but I believe I am being screwed on the trade. How do you do into a dealer to get a value on the trade while keeping the negotiation of the vehicle cost separate? It seems that the two are bound and this works to the dealers advantage. I know what I believe I should get on the trade so I can shoot for this. Any ideas?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    Simple solution: take the dealer's offer of $100 over invoice and sell your old car yourself, if you believe it's worth a lot more than the dealer is offering. One thing to consider is the sales tax; in some states (like MN), the sales tax on the new car is calculated after deducting the trade-in value. So maybe you could save a few hundred bucks on tax by trading it in.
  • civic2001civic2001 Posts: 30
    Without trade-in, I think it is a fair price for an EX at $100 over invoice (or lower). This way, the dealer's profit will be $100 plus the 2% holdback.

    If you don't mind the trouble of selling the existing car yourself, you can usually get a better price.
  • gasguzzgasguzz Posts: 214
    Of course the trade and car price are tied together - to the bottom line (profit). A common scenario would be to "take off" from the new car price and "regain" on the trade. The question is, will they retain the $100 over invoice deal if you sell the trade privately (probably not). Put it on a spreadsheet and play with the numbers (including tax considerations, their financing points or yours, etc.) - "numbers cannot lie". Accept the results (dealers are due profits too) and enjoy, or walk out.
    Good luck.
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    The Elantra is heavier than the Civic by several hundred pounds. If an Elantra hits a Civic, the Civic's good crash rating will be offset to some degree by its light weight. No crash test takes the weight of the vehicle into account since the cars are crashed into fixed objects. The only way the Civic can maintain its good rating in the real world, is if it crashes into another Civic or a tree.

    I'm not a Hyundai fan in general, but the Elantra is very impressive in areas that used to be dominated by the Civic, namely: ride, refinement and build quality. Why doesn't Honda offer anything more than the 3yr/36k warranty? Don't tell me that you don't need it on a Honda. Toyota offers a 5yr/60k warranty on its powertrain, but no one would argue that their engines are so unreliable that you need such extended coverage.
  • I agree with your first paragraph, absolutely the heavier vehicle survives due to momentum transfer.

    The Elantra airbag failed to fully deploy, that could be fatal.

    There is a reason for the Toyota extended warranty.
    (no one?) I'm arguing my dad's Toyota Tacoma V-6 had a bad head gasket at 48k miles. My dad was going to pay for it all ($1,200) but my sibling wrote a letter to Toyota and got fully refunded.
    There is a TSB on NHTSA web site

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/servicemmy.cfm

    type in Toyota Truck, Tacoma, 1995
    Finally I'm saving up for the 2002 Civic LX sedan for my growing family.
  • plumeplume Posts: 7
    Thanks for all the input. While I can probably get a little more on a private sale, its not worth the hassle and cost to place an ad. The point about sales tax is a valid one and in IL I am almost sure the tax on the new vehicle is based on the net after the trade.

    I also do not think the $100 over invoice will stand if the trade is removed.

    I will let you all know what happens because I will be making a decision within the next week.
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