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Comments
Just expressing MY opinion on the Protege, a competitor to the Civic.
Dinu
Happy motoring!
Dinu
I don't do much of my own maintenance anymore, but I used to do the simple stuff (fluids, filters, tune ups, valves, etc). Get a load of that recommended maintenance schedule! My toolbox will collect cobwebs.
Enjoy your Civic. I am really enjoying the 37 mpg on mine. So much that I haven't driven my 03 Explorer V8 since I bought the Civic.
Can anyone find another Nissan, Mazda, Korean car, German car like my Civic?
Dinu
dinu...i understand that you have free reign un here (which is scary), but if you are going to argue your point on every mazda product, please either post in the "vs" discussions, or set up your own. this discussion, along with the ones labeled with only the honda product itself are for owners or potential owners to discuss pros and cons of the HONDA, and give buying/selling/maintaining/repairing advice.
p.s. which dealer do you work at? ;-)
Thanks!
You can, though, shop other dealers within however large a radius you want by contacting their internet sales managers through their websites. Just ask for a quote on the car (trim, color, options, etc.) you want. Of course, the more specific your quote request, the better the info you'll get back. It's pretty simple.
I went to tirerack.com and the ratings for this tire are, at best, abysmal. Especially in snowy conditions.
Has anyone gotten a second set of snow tires for their late-model civic? What did you select?
I've been pointed in the direction of the Nokian Hakka snow tires, but I've had no experience with them. They aren't something you can find on tirerack or discount tire, they're more rare, evidently. Any experiences with these?
Anyone want to have a Firestone bonfire with all our stock tires as fuel? Those things are just awful. I can't say it enough.
When should I change the oil? I'm getting conflicting change periods? Some say 1000 miles, others say ride it out till 4000 miles....
Break-in, I kept rpms under 4k and mph under 65. As for the oil, I think following the severe maintenance schedule is fine (5k changes), but really, the regular maintenance schedule should be fine too (though 10k just seems too long to me, so I follow the severe schedule).
Glenn
Oh, he also through in the first three oil changes and a few other nice things.
Why is this lease so inexpensive? The best they used to have was about $2k down and $189 per month. Maybe this trim level isn't selling as well as expected?
Will this specific lease continue for awhile? The website says it expires at the end of February, but Honda brings lease specials back every month it seems.
The website says "Special lease rates available on all new 2003 Civic models"...anyone know what these rates are? I didn't want to contact a dealer just yet. By the way, I'm asking for a friend who only has the $ to lease, not purchase. Gotta love this economy...
Opinions please!! Thanks in advance.
Three reasons I can think of:
1) High residual value = low lease payments.
2) Cost of money for automakers is low now (witness low-rate financing programs).
3) Car market stinks overall--need to move units.
I recently saw a 5-speed LX lease for $139 with $1000 down and a $159 EX automatic lease with (I think) $1900 down. So if you want to lease a Civic, these are good times to do it.
Rather than leasing, use this tight car market to buy a decent car
at a reduced price
and at a low interest rate
and end up in two year's time ahead of where you'd be at the end of a 4 year lease.
I don't think there's a scam in these lease deals you're seeing, beyond the fact that leasing is a losing game.
1: usually $100-$150 less per month in payment.
2: more car for less money.
3: you pay only for what you use...no more.
4: more options than traditional financing:
a. drop it
b. trade it
c. buy it
d. sell it
5. newer (under warranty) more often.
6. leasing company takes financial risk in a volatile market. (guaranteed residual)
7. usage tax is only on your monthly pmt. rather than a large lump sum at the beginning.
8. financing provides equity at the end, but you pay for that equity in your higher payments.
9. do you want your money now? or wait 5 years?
10. your only risk is miles and condition of the vehicle. both of these are under YOUR control.
the most financially responsible way to buy a honda is to lease short term (36 months), and sell it on the open market. normally you can pocket $2-3000.
if you have excessive wear and tear or high mileage, you can buy it or sell it and the responsibility is no longer yours to pay for damages.
I'm not trying to chase you off; these are just some resources I wanted to be sure you were aware of.
Keep us posted.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/picture_library/dir_17/car_portal_pi- c_8555.jpg?4240
You're also paying interest on the residual.
You're also paying a fee just get a lease. That 'lease acquisition fee' with a Honda lease normally runs $550.
You are often paying a higher interest rate than with a straight-out purchase.
If you trade a lease, you pay a fee to the lessor, if you can find someone to take the lease. You also pay a fee if you get a service to find someone to take your lease.
Sales tax: If you trade a car on a new car you get a sales tax credit equal to the tax on the value of your trade.
Try this: Take the price of the car, then compare the lease payment with $1300 upfront to the monthly payment with nothing down at the current 1.9% for 5 years. How long will that $1300 pay the difference between the two? I dunno the answer to that myself, but that $1300 will pay the difference for a good while AND keep you out of a lease.
The price of the car used to figure the lease is same price you can buy it at. You have add-ins on a lease and different add-ins on a purchase. The total may well be different, usuually higher in the case of a purchase.
I would never pay a $550 "acquisition fee". Those are usually negotiable. If not, I'd walk.
Re sales tax, it's true that if you trade your car (for the trade-in value, usually less than you'd get selling to a private party) it means less sales tax. Compare the benefit of trading the car and getting the tax credit vs. selling outright and leasing, for which you only pay tax on your monthly payments, not the entire cost of the car.
As rivertown says, run the numbers between purchase and lease and see how they compare. Also, if you drive a lot of miles, a lease is usually not a good deal because the best rates are for 10,000-12,000 miles per year, and there's a per-mile charge after that.
LOL, move to Alaska or have a baby or find it's a lemon, you can do anything you want . . . as long as you pay the money.
Leases are not for everyone but work well for some people.
People should think carefully before leasing OR financing a car. If they are the type who easilly tires of a car and wants out after a short time, thye should pay cash.
And, of course...the lease payment consists of depreciation as well as interest. Nothing sinister here.
On a lease, you don't buy the trade-in value (residual, in lease speak) on a car, BUT you do pay interest on that trade-in value/residual. That's reasonable. The leasing company spent money to buy that trade-in value; and since they don't get it until the end of the lease, they want you, and it's reasonable for you, to pay them interest on that money they spent for something they don't get until years later. The prob, if it's a prob, is that this interest rate, too, is usually higher than the interest on a car loan. It, too, depends on your credit rating; but the interest rate used to figure a lease is usually higher than that on a car loan.
So, you're buying the depreciation - at a higher than car-loan interest rate; you're sorta 'renting' but not buying the residual/trade-in value - again at a higher than car-loan interest rate. And, for this privilege, you're also paying a fee - a 'lease acquisition' fee.
I agree with Isell; there's nothing sinister in this. I agree with Bowke; what you do with trade-in value/residual at the end of a lease includes the simple option of 'give it back to the leasing company, who bought it in the 1st place'.
So, leasing is like buying only the first part of a car's life - at a higher than car-loan interest rate, payng the leasing company interest on trade-in value - at a higher than car-loan interest rate - to hold the last part of a car's life, and paying a fat fee for the privilege of buying only the 1st part of a car's life.
Since you're buying only a part of a car's life, you pay less with a lease.
If ya got $200/mo to spend on a car, you can buy part of car's life (lease); OR
you can buy all of a cheaper car's life.
From a financial standpoint, it makes more sense to buy all of a car's life - because
you can get money for the part you don't want when you sell it and because
you don't spend money on higher interest and fees.
Put this way, leasing is a way to buy part of at car's life whose whole life you can't afford to buy - for an additional price (fee) and at a higher interest rate. The alternative is to buy a cheaper car. In the long run, you come out better financially buying the whole life of a cheaper car.
Think the lease vendor is gonna tell you the interest rate figured into a lease is higher than car-loan interest?
Think anybody's gonna tell you that lease aquisition fee pays the lessor to work up the papers and the salesman to sell you the lease?
Yeah, right.
rivertown, you can determine the interest rate on the lease by asking for the "money factor". If they won't give it to you, I'd walk. There is some factor you apply to the money factor to get a good estimate of the interest rate. But I've forgotten what it is. I'll bet that leasing board posted earlier by our Host talks about it. But I'm tired from traveling since 5 this morning so I'll let someone else look it up if they are so inclined--or maybe isell could tell us what it is.
Isell said lease acquisition fees apply to all leases and are non-negotiable. I think that's true. It's whether you pay 'em up front or roll 'em into the lease that may be negotiable.
Yep, as I understand it, lease-speak for interest rate is 'money factor'.
And, yep, there is a multiplier to approximate interest rate, given the 'money factor' on a lease. That multiplier, I'm told, is 2400. So, take the 'money factor' and multiply it by 2400 to get a close approximation of the interest rate. Ex: a money factor of .00079 X 2400 converts to an interest rate of about 1.9%.
I dunno what the money factor on a Honda lease is now. Like interest rate on a car loan, though, you need a good credit rating to get the best 'money factor'.
I don't think it happens much at all, but it's possible to work the numbers such that a lease is a good thing:
If the 'cap cost' (which includes the price of car and anything rolled into the deal) is low enough AND the 'residual' (the predicted trade-in value) is high enough AND the 'money factor' (interest rate) is low enough, then a lease makes sense.*
If the 'cap cost' is low, however, that usually reflects a low price on the car - a low price at which you'd be better off buying the car.
If they completely waive the 'acquisition fee', which they say they never do, that also lowers the 'cap cost' and thus the 'amortized cost'.
*'Amortized cost' is 'cap cost' minus 'residual'.
As many of you know, there are leasing discussions all over the Smart Shopper and the FWI boards. Please check into them for this level of detail on the subject.
Thanks!
TY, Pat.
:-)
- can anyone gives me some advice?
- also i heard the 01 civic has some reliability issue, is that true?
- finally, the guy wants to have the car until march before he goes back to japan. if my friend put down a few hundred for deposit, how do we know he is not gonna run away?
sorry about so many question, but i have never bought or sold cars...
I would recommend a Protege ES 2001 or P5 2002. The ES is a bit cheaper and Mazdas depreciate quite a bit more than Hondas. The warranty was 3yrs/50kmiles, so your friend might be able to get one with a bit of warranty left for piece of mind. The car is very well put together (again ES and P5 trims), has been reliable for me in 32K miles and is a blast to drive. The ride is compromised by low-profile tires, so if your friend prefers a smooth ride or needs to drive in snow, a new set of tires would be something to look for and include it as a bargaining tool when buying.
Good luck!
Dinu
BTW, I have tried both Dunlop Sport A2's and the recently new Bridgestone 950's. The Bridgestone were a little better, and a little easier to balance. However, the Sport A2's are superb, and the deal of the century - I wouldn't hestitate to buy them again.
BTW, I agree that some tires perform much better in the rain than others - Sport A2's, Bridgestone 950's, Aquatreds. Rain performance to me is more important than dry pavement performance - even a mediocre tire usually has adequate dry pavement performance, but when traction is so reduced by rain, excellent wet pavement performance is required to cope with off ramps, quick stops, etc. I'd rather have good rain tires than antilock brakes, and I DO like antilock brakes (but they don't improve traction, only help you not to lose what you have).
I am a fairly aggreesive driver. The stock Michelin tires in my 96 Accord were all gone before 45k miles. But they have much higher treadwear rating at Tire Rack.