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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

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Comments

  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    "and with a weighted crankshaft" I think that you meant an additional balance shaft.
  • You can't be serious in your complaint about mileage---my 96 C280 gets about 19/20 in doodling around town and 27/28 on the highway. Suggest you go back to Honda or Toyota and endure BORING but better mileage.
  • Actually once I am done with my C I probably will go to a car that gets better mileage. My 95 Accord EX had a 4-cyl VTEC engine that was certainly as fast and had as much get up and go as my C240 does. And it got at least 5 mpg better on REGULAR unleaded gas. If manufacturers can build more efficient engines there's no reason why they shouldn't be in wider use. If MB is really as advanced in the engineering department as they claim then this is certainly something they ought to be working on.

    On another topic, I saw on the news late last week there there had been a settlement in a lawsuit in which MB agreed to give extended warranties to owners of certain 1996-2001 cars. The warranties will extend to something like 10 years and 150,000 miles. But they didn't say which cars this applies to. Has anyone heard about this or know where to get info?
  • If an additional 5 mpg is your major criteria, a move to a Japanese car is probably best for you.
    As the owner of a 1996 MB, I would be interested in this extended warranty you mentioned. Anyone know if this is true and have any further info?
  • What kind of gas mileage can be expected with the C240 (auto)? Any current owners care to share their experiences?
  • rs64rs64 Posts: 64
    I have 28,000 miles on my C240 (auto) and average around 25-26 mpg with 50% city/50% highway driving. Gets up to the high 20's with just highway.
  • kevinc5kevinc5 Posts: 204
    What's a reasonable deal to shoot for on the purchase of a 02 C240 at this time of year? Will there be any siginificant improvements in the 03's??
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...and my offer on an '02 C240 will be $3600 off MSRP, which is what CarsDirect is selling them for in NorCal. If they have the car I want and will take this deal, then we will probably do business. If not, not...
  • Hello,

    I am planning to get a 2002 C240. Edmund shows the invoice price as $29,077 and the TMV as $28,479. I checked to see whether there is any incentives and found none. How could the dealers sell below invoice?

    Is this because of some dealer holdbacks? or they are prepared to take a loss to get rid of the 2002 models?

    Also, are the prices are for only those vehicles remaining in the lot? or can I get a color I want?

    Any help in making sense of this will be appreciated.

    Thanks.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,658
    It is possible to buy a car below dealer invoice. If they give you holdback, that is one way, but make no mistake about it, they are still making money on the car somehow (You ever notice how the destination charge is the same no matter what part of the country you live in?). If there are 2002s on the lot and the 2003s are expected in relatively soon, then the reamining 2002s will sell at a significant discount. Also remember, the more time a car sits on a dealer's lot, the more it costs them (they have to pay interest to the banck you know) You do have to realize though that once the 2003s come out that your car is a year old (as far as depreciation goes). You will get a better price on cars remaining on the lot as they are called leftovers and you get what you get. I'm sure a dealer might be able to do a swap for you, but you won't get as good a deal.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • Good afternoon. I'm after opinions from experienced C280 owners/drivers: which do you prefer, the inline 6 (1997 and before) or the V6 (1998 and after)? The opinions from those I've solicited here in Seattle are so mixed (from owners and mechanics) that I need to broaden my sampling via Town Hall! Thanks.
  • According to Edmund incentive info.

    Anyone purchase a C320 or C240 lately? and what is the price you paid for?
  • Just got a 02 C230 coupe; red, automatic, C5 premium package, C7 wheel package and CD changer for $27300! This is $1657 below invoice! And no I didn't took the one that sitting in the parking lot; they located one from NY and ship it back to NJ for me.
    Now beat that BMW!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,658
    While your gripes are valid, and I haven't gotten the new C&D yet (So I don't know what options were on the C320 they tested), I can tell you that it is very easy to push the MSRP of a C320 north of $45K. Now granted most of them out there aren't optioned as well, but I'll say many of the C320s I see on the road stickered for somewhere in the low $40K range.

    Historically MBs have been more expensive than their competition (you remember the previos generation S Class). Again, I think Mercedes makes a great car, they're just expensive compared to their competition.

    I think Mercedes has been building cars to win favorable magazine reviews as of late (I'm being fecious, but you get the point) instead of building a true Mercedes. But that's an argument for another topic.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • I do this (write reviews) for a living. Readers often misread the intent of reviews, or they read their own preferences into a review; in either case, they are apt to be disappointed. A C-class MB is NOT a performance sedan; it is an entry-level high-spec touring sedan. A real difference in both pop and handling. I own a C280, a SVT Contour (a wonderful car, BTW), and a 3-series BMW. Love them all, but each has a different application, a different ride, a different joy and purpose. Having said this, in IMHO, the C280/C320 (but not C230) Benz in the best blend of both worlds. BTW, I think the "sport" option is over-rated and, in any case, marginalizes the interior too much to be worth the difference in handling.

    For what it's worth...
  • 404c404c Posts: 146
    Well, for starters neither seem to be particularly noble engines; the IL 6 is renowned for oil leaks and typically has recurrent head gasket problems, while the V6 is only a Mercedes-Benz V8 with two cylinders amputated, with improper 90 degree bank spacing and the attendant imbalances, necessitating a counter-rotating balance shaft. Having written that, the V6 is a quite good application in practise, considering its compromised origins. The C 240 is a nice, if less-than-torquey car to drive, at least in manual form. A benefit of the V6 is that it likely results in a safer car in the event of a collision, its block being considerably shorter than the IL 6, giving more programmable crush space for the designers to work with.

    About the distinction between BMW 3er "Sport Sedans" and C Class "Entry Level Touring Sedans", I'd say that these are nearly meaningless generalisations invented by marketing people who lack adequate descriptive capability.

    I have driven both extensively and I'd be hard-pressed to find any major, significant difference between, for example, a 320i and a C 240 in handling and roadholding. Perhaps the distinction between the two becomes clearer with the 330i and C 320, particularly if the BMW is fitted with the optional "sport" suspension. A suspension which is, by the way, not too happy coping with uneven pavement in corners when driven quickly. But both cars in their lower spec form are very close in feel and the choice one makes between them is mainly attributable to intangibles, in my opinion.

    For real world driving, the Mercedes-Benz C suspension is head and shoulders above the bone-jarring and skittish-on-bumps BMW Sport suspension. If you live and drive on a racetrack, the 330i Sport is the preferred option, I will admit.

    To my mind, the C 230 Kompressor Coupé represents the best of both worlds: very good handling/roadholding, massive torque and very tight performance in a package that is stylish, commodious and potentially very economical if driven carefully. Sure, it's only a four cylinder engine, but it's a lot nicer than the 2.6 L V6. Too bad the 4 cylinder Kompressor engines are not sold in the C sedan in North America. That's why I have a 2002 C 230 K.
  • Thanks, 404c; your response is most helpful. I've not had problems yet with my C280. I also agree with your take on "sport" models, especially in the MB C-class which compromises the interior in its Sport model. IMHO, the sport option in the BMW 3-series is more decisive and should be considered before purchase. I chose against it; but there was a real choice to make in the case of the BMW, whereas this just isn't so with the MB. BTW, I also like the post-1999 C230. Very sweet car, although I tend to like 4d.

    Let me ask you about my '96 C280: do you recommend any aftermarket products/adjustments to this engine, or would you agree "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
  • 404c404c Posts: 146
    I'd leave it alone; it is a good engine in standard form and the only potential concern is to check pre-emptively for head gasket problems occasionally. With or without head gasket issues, it should be good for a very high mileage, which is something I admire in a car, driving them as I do for 10+ years and 300,000+ km. To date my favourite car is the Peugeot 404 Coupé - I've owned one of these since 1981. I liked the W202 C Class, but it looks rather square-rigged and straight-laced next to the more flamboyant/stylish W203. I see the latter as M-B moving towards (but not into) BMW 3 marketing territory and driving feel.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    I've published this at least twice, but one more time:

    Dealer Incentives on '02 Cs:

    Coupe - $1000
    Sedans [BOTH] - $1500
    Wagon - $3000

    The latter figure only applies to the wagon, not the C320 sedan, which gets the lower amount.
  • I just closed a deal on a 2002 C240 this past friday. The selection was pretty limited but i picked up a 2002 Metallic Silver C240 with premium leather and the C2 package for $31,345. I am going to pick it up the 10th and i can hardly wait!
  • I have a chance to buy a MB Kompressor 230 of 2000 model with about 30K miles for considerably below its TMV/KBB price. The reason the price is sweet is that the car has been "CONSUMER RE-PURCHASE" for "NO START CONDITION & FUEL GAUGE". The seller on ebay tells me it has been since repaired by the authorized MB repairshop, and in all likelihood, it was broken fuelguage that misread the empty tank as full, hence "no start condition". The car still has 13 months factory warranty left.
    Two questions:
    1. What would you suggest/advise/recommend to a potential buyer about such "manufacturer-reconditioned" car buying situation?
    2. I want to get it shipped (insured) from Dallas to Omaha. Any good/bad experiences about a used car getting shipped (was it a satisfying experience for anyone here?)

    Thanks a lot in advance!
  • 404c404c Posts: 146
    The other phrase for this is "LEMON TITLE". The question is, did the "no start condition" which by definition must have happened 4 times without the dealer or manufacturer being able to repair it, really get repaired?

    My advice is run, don't walk away from any offer for you to buy a lemon. There are far better things to buy with your money. Like a nice reliable Toyota ;-)
  • Speaking of lemons - has anyone had to deal with this situation?

    I'm currently going through this with a new BMW 325i I just purchased & if I can get my money back, I'm thinking of a C320.

    My car's in the dealer for the 4th time for a fail-safe problem (in 6 weeks of ownership & 1200 miles!)& they are now planning to replace the wiring harness & are waiting for the part to come in from Germany since it's not a US stock item!

    Anyway, the dealer knows he can no longer restore my confidence in this car; how can I get BMW NA to agree too?
  • My 2001 C320 has been having this problem with what I will call stuttering at very slow speeds. Just when you begin to inch forward. They took it in and after 5 attempts to fix it they replaced the torque converter. This actually seemed to fix it. I took the car home, gave it to my wife and she puts the car in reverse to leave the garage and the damn thing goes forward! By the way, I was standing in front of it. Almost got me.

    So I press the wrench button and tell the operator to come get this POS. They do and after a day they tell me the tech forgot to replace the pin that connects the shift lever to the transmission.....oops! They are very lucky I wasn't killed or that it didn't happen in a parking lot.

    I told them my wife informed me that she would never drive the car again and that I wanted a new car. They offered me a 2003 C for like 10K. I said, no thanks.

    Well after a few weeks of playing hardball, looks like I will be getting a new 2003 E320 for about 10k. Alot of money,yes, but 2 years newer and way more car.

    Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
  • I'm buying a C230 in two weeks and I don't know if I should get a 2002 or 2003 model?
    Any suggestions?

    Thanks
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    If my understanding is correct the motor has been updated for the 2003. Given that the '03 would be a no brainer.
  • 404c404c Posts: 146
    The update of the engine in the 2003 model C 230 K Sportcoupé consists of fitting a 1798 cc engine in place of the former 2295 cc engine.

    The 1798 cc engine is all aluminum, has counter-rotating shafts to smooth it out and gets better fuel economy (6%) than the outgoing model.

    It is also less powerful, and (more importantly) less torquey.

    The 1.8 is listed at 189 HP and the 2.3 has 192.

    The 2.3 engine developed its maximum torque of 280 Nm between 2000 and 4500 rpm.

    The 1.8 engine develops its maximum torque of 260 Nm between 3500 and 4000 rpm.

    So where the 2.3 (which I have) pulls like a train at 2000 rpm in any gear, the newer one will have to be revved harder and shifted more often to make similar progress.

    In absolute terms the speed of the new 1.8 model is only slightly down - it does 0-100 km/h in 8.1 seconds versus 8.0 for the 2.3 L engine. But the way the old engine does this is effortless due to its massively wide torque spread, whereas you'll have to work the new engine a lot harder.

    The specific power of the new M271 engine is well over 100 HP/L and the old one is in the mid 80s. Thus I think there's more "room" to reliably modify the 2.3 for more power if that's your bag. Many long-time Mercedes-Benz mechanics think the old M111 engine is the best one they made in recent times.

    Finally, the new engine is in its first months of production and I would not be surprised to see it suffer from a number of "teething problems". If you want to read more about this engine, go to MBSpy and look under M271 engine series - there's a long press release on it.

    Overall, if this sounds like a vote for the 2.3 L 2002, so be it.
  • 404c404c Posts: 146
    I got the torque range for the 2002 C 230 K wrong - the maximum torque figure is developed between 2500 and 4800 rpm, not 2000 and 4500 rpm, as I wrote above. Sorry about that.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    I've rejoined the MB family, with my 14th in the past 35 years. The pricing on the '02 Cs was too good to pass up, so we bought an '02 C240 from the dealer in Sacramento CA, with the deal as follows:

    MSRP with Automatic, Met Pnt, and C2: $34,525
    Price Paid: $30,025 [$4500 off] plus taxes.

    I feel like we got a good deal, and they still made a couple of hundred bucks on it after holdback. This car was among at least 10 others, and had been around in stock for a long time, so there was absolutely no trouble in striking the deal.

    We needed a comfortable, safe touring car, not a sports sedan. That said, a really basic BMW 325 was an alternative, as well as a base G35, but the combination of ride and silence at speed, not to mention my long relationship with the brand, cinched the deal.

    Incidentally, my research indicated that '03s were already available in SoCal for $600 over invoice with no hassles, and probably less if you wanted to dicker, but we plan on keeping the car long enough that the extra discount on the '02 means more. I do like the new Pewter color for '03, though - ours is Bordeaux red, which is gorgeous to look at but high-mtc to keep up to my standards.

    So, back in the MB saddle again...
  • Given what's available for $30k, you chose very wisely. Suggestion: I have my cars fully detailed once a year (typically in early June at the end of our "rainy season" here in Seattle). Makes routine upkeep of difficult, darker colors much easier; and cleaning engine makes it run cooler.

    BTW, in discussing my engine temp with local mechanics, I've found that MB engines generally run warmer than others. Keeping them clean helps lower it a wee bit.
This discussion has been closed.