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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

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  • soylentsoylent Posts: 25
    taguirre:


      Iam not sure if you are interested but I may have found an exceptional deal that happens every 6 months. Caliber Motors Mercedes Benz of Anaheim Hills, sells their service loaners both C and E class. I leased(new car lease) from them a 2002 C320 Wagon with sunroof,3800 miles for $32,800. This is a 40K car. Starmark 5/100,000 warranty included. This was in August. They had 5 available at this price.(buy or lease)
    According to the fleet manager this deal happens every 6 months. I stumbled on the ad in the LA Times, thought it was too good to be true. Went to their web site( great site, you can scroll thru actual inventory,pics and all), set up a test drive for the weekend, I was able to snag the last one(they go fast. while negotiating the deal, the rep received 3 calls on the car!) Great car/nice lines, I have seen a total of 3! on the streets of LA, and I run the 405 corridor to LAX daily. good luck.


    Brian


    Caliber Motors:

    http://www.calibermotors.com/


    C320 Sport Wagon:

    http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=C320S

  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...that the year-end dealer incentive for NEW '02 Cs is still in effect for those dealers who still have unsold new car stock.

    $1000 for Coupes
    $1500 for both C sedans [240 and 320]
    $3000 for Wagons

    In our case, the deal resulted in $4500 off for a C240 with an MSRP of $34500 [$30k net]. The deal would be correspondingly sweeter on a higher priced car, assuming you find the right dealer.
  • mac320mac320 Posts: 147
    The E320, I believe in '99, achieved better mileage results that year than any other V6 in any other car. Amazing, but that was based on the MSRP mileage data for all cars, which of course would include Honda's V6 in a far lighter Accord, for instance.

    Maybe someone can find the 240's torque curves. I've seen the curves for the 320 v 330 motors and the 320 reaches a higher torque sooner and maintains it over a longer range than the 330 reaches at its peak.

    There will be big sacrifices in engine longevity due to the higher piston speeds required of the smaller bore 325 motor to develop close to the same power per revolution. I don't know the 325's heritage, but the stroke probably was increased to achieve needed displacement because there was no room for additional bore. The 325 also requires a higher 10.5 compression to achieve the same power. According to the engine manual, the 240 has a 10:1 compression ratio, just like the 320, so MSN's or some other site might have gotten that stat wrong. And, the manual also says the 240's higher peak torque of 177 is reached at 4500 rpm, not 4,700 as reported on Edmunds' site. The lower compression required indicates the 240's motor does not have to work as hard to develop a higher torque over its lifetime.

    I think most persons would equate MB's motors with a longer life compared with the competition, and believe that in twenty years, there's a better chance of a C320, for instance, still being on the road with its original engine. Both the 240 and 320 have a huge 8.5 qt. engine oil capacity and also the same transmission as in the 430, 500 and even the hammered 55 AMG V8s so it seems certain to me that the C's also have lifetime drivetrains.

    There's no reason to believe there is any reason for concern about restricted breathing due to one oversized exhaust valve instead of two smaller valves. A circle encompasses more area per like amount of circumference than any other geometric figure and it's easy as pie for a larger diameter circle to encompass more area than two smaller circles.

    A 3-valve design also results in less complexity. This year, for instance, Wards picked the ML500's version of the 3-valve, twin spark engine as its pick of those among the top ten best engines.

    MB's component engines also have variable intake runners which has only just now been copied by the competition for its newest engine in its latest flagship 7 series.

    I'd think that rather than ending, it probably is just beginning as it is more likely MB's 3-valve, twin spark motors will end up powering a new generation of Chryslers. Ultimately, perhaps, the design will achieve a venerable status as one of the greats.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...got started, but the torque curves of all the engines currently offered in the Cs in the USA are in the '03 C brochure, which means that they can also be accessed online via the MBUSA web site.

    As to the future, yes, the 3-valve heads are going away, to be replaced with 4-valve heads and induction systems that will eventually take advantage of direct-injection, though the latter will be some time in coming across the board. All MB engines [except the brand-new 4 cyl family] will get new heads, induction, and exhaust systems over the next few years.

    I think the original question was "does the C240 have enough power?" It certainly does in my opinion, but "enough" in the current driving climate in the US seems to evolve daily - I can't remember a time since the late '60s when everybody seemed so absolutely obsessed with hp. All I care about is that the car seems safe and comfortable on the road in real-world situations [on-ramps and passing]...everything in the current MB lineup in North America meets that test with ease.
  • 404c404c Posts: 146
    Quote: "There's no reason to believe there is any reason for concern about restricted breathing due to one oversized exhaust valve instead of two smaller valves. A circle encompasses more area per like amount of circumference than any other geometric figure and it's easy as pie for a larger diameter circle to encompass more area than two smaller circles."

    If this were actually the case, then no manufacturer would have cars with more than two valves per cylinder. Cylinder filling is always improved in multi-valve designs. Also, very large "circles" for valves are kind of hard to fit into a hemisphere that has at least one spark plug in it. It is for these two reasons that multi valve designs are necessary for decent cylinder filling.
  • lg5lg5 Posts: 6
    Has anyone (in the northeast) had concerns with the rear wheel drive 2002.? 2003 model has the all wheel drive option but at a costly 3K. Wondering if it's worth it... Thoughts please>>>
  • I sort of live in the Northeast (New York - Long Island area). My 2001 C320 is grounded in the garage on snowy days. This was a big disappointment for me during my first year of ownership, because I was "sold" on MB's new electronic traction control. My experience is that is does not work with the stock tires. Not that a BMW would be any better, but please don't count on this vehicle in even a few inches of snow. To solve this problem - I brought a Subaru WRX! That solved my disappointment. We still like our C320, but definitely not on roads covered in snow.
  • mac320mac320 Posts: 147
    MB's tri-valve, twin spark engine design should be around for a long time. It was announced last year, for instance, that it would power a specialty Chrysler product as early as 2004.

    At the end of this year, the V6 component of MB's torquey 500 engine will debut in a special model ML350. The 3.7L ML350 apparently will replace the 320 in Germany entirely, so I've heard.

    I don't know whether the 320 will still be available in MLs sold in the U.S. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see this more powerful 3.7L V6 in a future S Class models which now only offer the 430 V8 as the smallest engine option available.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,457
    I don't want to get into the snow tire vs. all season tire debate here, just make a few comments. Bouncingbob lives in my area (he's on Long Island, I'm in NYC) and to tell you the truth, we haven't seen a bad winter here since 1996! My Parents live North Of the city (it gets colder and snows more often than on Long Island) and even they're winter was good. It didn't snow much at all (We've been in a draught emergency for quite some time). If it does snow frequently in your area (Northeast, specifically anywhere 50 miles North of NYC), if you invest $1000 in a good set of winter tires and wheels then you should get around just fine.

    Bouncingbob: I think it is great you went for a WRX instead of the typical Long Islander who runs down to the Chevy Dealer the day after it snows more and gets a loaded $40,000 Tahoe to drive back and forth to the LIRR station 2 miles from their home:)

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • mbgambga Posts: 11
    The manual recommends 91 octance. I live in the Altanta area and only 87, 89 and 93 octane is sold here. The dealer recommended 89 and that is what I've used. They mentioned the worst thing I could do would be to alternate between 89 & 93 to "average" 91.

    I've been thinking about switching to 93 for a while to see if there is a performance difference (not unhappy, just curious).

    Is 93 too much? Could it cause any harm?
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    If it were me and the manual calls for 91 I would use 93
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...use the highest octane available for this car. Anything lower than 91 causes the computer to retard the timing, which means less power and higher fuel consumption.
  • mac320mac320 Posts: 147
    What does you manual say about the 240's compression?

    The MSN and Edmunds sites say 10.5 for the 240 and so does the MBUSA site.

    The "203 Operator's Manual C-Class," Edition B 2002, that came with our 02/02 build-date C320 has specs and features for C240, C320 and C32 AMG and says all three engines have a 10:1 compression ratio.

    I don't know what is right, but if the 240's compression is 10.5, using at least the minimum octane would be better for the engine, and 93 probably would be better yet.
  • mbgambga Posts: 11
    Thanks for the feedback. I will try the 93 octane.

    By the way, my 240 is a '01 and the manual states 10.1 compression.
  • I recently bought a 99 C230 Kompressor. The car that I bought has only one Smart Key at the time of purchase. I bought another Smart Key (on E-Bay) because the local dealership told me they could program it. Now they say that they can't program the key. Does anyone know if the key can be programmed, either by myself or at a dealer, or is it useless to me?
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    Get 4 real snow tires (not all-season) and wheels to mount them on. It certainly won't be as good as an AWD car with snow tires, but it will be dramatically better than RWD with all-season tires (particularly after you get 10,000 or so miles on the all-season tires). Think about it this way, the only real added cost to snow tires is the cost of the wheels, since every month you use the snow tires is a month you are not wearing out your summer tires.
  • esswebessweb Posts: 51
    Most of the tire place offer free change of tire every winter or spring if you buy all 4 snow tires from them. why spend $1000 on the extra wheel? nedzel is right, you are saving the all season when using the snow tires, so it is actually free in the long run
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...every time you tear down the wheel/tire combination, you take the risk of damaging the wheel, not to mention the risk of the subsequent tire/wheel combination being not as smooth as the originals.

    I am very big on getting separate wheels for this purpose. Constantly moving the wheels from one set of tires to the other is an invitation for something to get screwed up - if you're not a perfectionist about road vibrations and similar problems, it may not matter, but for people like me, this is too big a risk.
  • avro2avro2 Posts: 6
    Hello too all,

    I was wondering if any of you chaps or ladies are heading to the gala going to be held by Mercedes in Toronto Canada (Wednesday Oct. 23rd 2002) 6:30 to 10:30 – need any more info contact (416) 588 7101 (25 British Columbia Road, Exhibition Place)

    It’s going to be loads of fun, more cars and not to mention great food and wine!

    Let me know,
    Cheers
    M
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    The free change over is for your combined tire and wheel, not for demounting your summer tires from wheels and then mounting snow tires on the same wheels. Each time you mount/demount tires from a wheel, you impose wear on the bead. You also have to balance the tires again. It only takes them a couple minutes to take the combined summer tires/wheels off your car and install the winter tires/wheels. That's why they can do it for free. It takes a whole lot more time to remove the tire from the wheel, install a new tire, balance, etc.

    Get a separate set of wheels for your snow tires. Call up your local tire shop and talk to them -- they'll give you the same advice.
  • I am hoping that one of you folks has an answer to a problem that is driving me crazy. On my 2000 MB 230K (4 dr sport), which I leased new, every time I start the car up, especially in the morning, I am smelling a distict anti freeze odor (chemical smell) out of the front dash vent. On humid days, all of the windows fog up the minute I turn on the air/heat. If I'm driving, I am temorarily without a clear sight of the road. I brought it to the dealer, who said the air con drain hole was clogged, and that they fixed it. Unfortunately, the problem was not solved. I am considering buying out the lease ($18k) at the end of the term, but still not sure. Can anyone give me some insight? You guys saved me big time on the dash rattling (sun visors) and the fuel warning light (faulty switch) back in 2000. Pls help me again. Tks, John
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...sounds like the heater box itself has a small leak. This would explain all of the symptoms you describe. Unfortunately, I don't know how to prove it to a dealer, or what you can do to convince them to look, or what testing they would do to verify, but your description is word for word what we experienced on our "Beater" early '80s Ford that was a third car for a number of years. The local Chevron station mechanic [!!!!] made the diagnosis and the fix. And I'll bet he still doesn't charge $90 an hour...

    I think this means that the heater box [which contains the circulating cooling fluid, which is after all the heating medium] is leaking just enough engine coolant into the air system to give you both the smells and the unwanted extra moisture. It's probably a very small seepage, or you'd see other symptoms [like coolant loss and such]. See if you can get a dealer to give it a check.
  • 404c404c Posts: 146
    You have a pinhole in your heater core, most likely, as jrct9454 says.

    Tell the dealer to do a pressure test on the cooling system. They should pump it up to maybe 30 psi and then leave the car for a while if the pressure does not begin to drop immediately. The test equipment is like a high-quality bicycle pump that has a pressure gauge attached to it. It attaches to the radiator cap. All decent garages have one (if yours doesn't, they are idiots, go somewhere else). There should be ZERO pressure drop over that time. If there is some, that proves that a leak exists.

    Then the question is: where is the pressure drop occuring, but your sense of smell tells the dealer what to change. Plus maybe the interior will smell of coolant by then. So, because the car's under warranty, they should put a new heater core in, no questions asked at that point.

    If you were out of the warranty period, I'd be tempted to try a Rube Goldberg solution before busting my a** changing a heater core (they're usually awful). The Rube solution calls for you to get a rad sealant such as the General Motors brown tablets, grind 'em into a fine powder and put it in the radiator. It just may work. I cured a moderately leaky radiator gasket on my 180,000 mile 1989 Peugeot that way - the alternative was a new rad or an expensive rad tank seal change, on a car that's worth $14.99 or thereabouts. This solution has held for 2 years and 40,000 miles.

    You should sort this problem out before the car is out of warranty though. If you were to pay an M-B dealer to do it you'd be into the big bills. And as I wrote earlier, if you did it yourself you'd use all of your blue vocabulary up, and then some, changing the little swine.

    Good luck,
    Mike T.

    2002 M-B C 230 K
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
    1989 Peugeot 405
  • paul_ppaul_p Posts: 271
    I had the same type of issue years ago on a 1970 Mercury Montego MX Brougham. The heater core split causing an awful fogging and smell in the car. After replacing the heater core (not too bad to replace as there was no A/C in the car) all was fine.

    Mike I believe your approach with the sealant may work, but I would be worried about plugging up something else that was designed to stay open. No problem on a '73 Chevy as I've done in the past, but as an owner of a 2000 C230 Sport myself, I'd be hesitant to try that approach on a newer car. I agree that is a good last-ditch effort alternative.

    My advice, bring it to the dealer and have them do their job - testing the cooling system and subsequently replacing all defective parts. They should do this without question if you bought the car in the US and have not yet reached the 50,000 mile warranty expiration mark.

    Good luck, and I'll be interested to hear how it goes as with the same year and model, I may be faced with a similar problem in the future.

    - Paul
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...I have the distinct impression that this is a very rare problem indeed in any MB. First time I've heard of a heater box leak in any Mercedes, assuming we are right in our collective diagnosis {how could this much collective wisdom be wrong??}...which may be why the dealer didn't start there, notwithstanding our unanimous verdict on the culprit. We shall see...
  • mac320mac320 Posts: 147
    The smell of antifreeze has everyone thinking; otherwise, if it is something else, using the A/C right up to shutting off the car and then using the blower the next morning when the windows are cold probably could fog the windows with the residual moisture.

    And, when moisture is left in the system all of the time, that probably could cause bad smelling air from bacteria and fungus. I heard in the past that at the start of winter when temperatures drop, people get colds, and it is not just coincidence that drivers turn on their car heaters for the first time in months at that time, i.e., bacteria in the car heaters can cause colds.

    I don't know if this is true, but a cottage industry in health claims due to bad air in buildings has sprung up over the last 3-5 years and I suppose there must be some science behind all this.
  • lg5lg5 Posts: 6
    Let's talk numbers...

    above car with C3, cd changer, sunroof, htd seats in metallic paint: $34,990 includes dest charge. Sound fair or not fair to anyone..??
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...says the MSRP for this car is somewhere in the order of $36,445, with a nominal invoice of $33,941, so yes, that sounds like a reasonable offer to me. Everything depends on local context, of course - a competitive marketplace makes all the difference, so where you are can mean everything when it comes to price. In SoCal, for example, it isn't hard to get a car for $500 over invoice on C240s, but with 4Matic being so new, who knows?
  • thanks guys for the insightful responses. I have 35,000 miles on the car with the full warranty. I will make an appointment w/ my service tech and now and will more confident when I sit down to explain (again) the problem. it has been my expericence that they generally are very cagey about offering opinions to a problem you explain to them, almost as if they are told not to acknoldge any problems up front. I will let you know. John
  • All Instock New 2003 C 240s $3000 Off MSRP*.
    That's considerably less than TMV!
    www.calstarmercedes.com
    818-246-1190
    *Does not include government fees or taxes.
This discussion has been closed.