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Buick Regal

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  • rjs200240rjs200240 Posts: 1,277
    Have you looked at the torque rating of that Honda engine, or where it peaks? It isn't some amazing feat to get 260 hp out of 3 liters. What is amazing is to get strong hp and retain strong torque. GM does that all the time (with great mileage to boot), but since the hp numbers aren't the largest, nobody notices. If you prefer a car that sounds better on paper, or that gives you horsepower bragging rights, but you don't care about the actual total power an engine makes, then you should probably just start buying Hondas right now. In my opinion, GM makes some of the best powertrains around.
  • y2112yzy2112yz Posts: 19
    OK, Here is my two cents worth on this horsepower and torque postings. First, most people never use all of the horsepower in an engine unless you punch it from a dead stand still or punch it at highway speeds. Second, most people drive in city traffic, where you will be using more torque to get your vehicle up to speed than horsepower. Yes, it is a combination of both in some regards, but more torque than anything. Yeah, Honda can get 240 HP out of a 3.0L, but the torque on it is pretty paltry in my opinion. If you notice most of the imports have higher HP than say GM, but the 3800 and the S/C 3800 do have the highest torque rating I can find in a V6. That is where all of the work is being done. It is nice to have the best of both worlds, which is why I like S/C 3800 in my 01' GS. I will take a hit on the horsepower to get more low end torque. The other thing is, would you actually notice the difference in an engine say a Nissan at 255HP vs. a Buick at 240HP?? Probably not. Everybody can choose what they want to drive, I will take the proven reliabilty in the ole' push rod V6 from GM anyday.
  • jpstaxjpstax Posts: 250
    Someone name atbear, in the "Chevy Impala 2004 Redesign" discussion group, answered my question about the new '04 Pontiac GTP engine. Here is his answer:

    "It's a new engine (well, sort of!). It's the Series III 3800, instead of the Series II 3800 in the new GTPs. There is a new higher efficiency supercharger, throttle by wire, and a few other features. The HP goes up as you see and the torque probably does to cause they're related (it's probably underrated), but the tranny is rated at 280 ft/lbs of torque, so instead of designing a new tranny, they just "didn't" raise the torque numbers. The new engine should rock!"

    I would think the new '04 Regal GS will also be getting this same great engine. After all, the Pontiac GTP and Regal GS have share the same engines in the past. Anyway, let's hope so.
  • BushwackBushwack Posts: 258
    GM's 4 speed tranny is actually rated at a maximum 300 ft/lbs. Threfore raising it any higher only puts additional strain on the tranny with no performance gains.

    While the interior of the '04 GTP looks 'refreshing', I see no mention of the car having a GPS system. Its time GM wakes up and realizes it needs to provide this option on its mid-size cars. Camry and Accord have a GPS system as an option. How can GM expect to make a dent in that market if they don't play 'follow the leader'? Also...where's a 5 speed automatic?
  • rjs200240rjs200240 Posts: 1,277
    Keep in mind that the torque peak can stay the same while the torque curve changes. The horsepower peak occurs well north of the torque peak, so if the torque curve is raised only in certain parts, it will raise the peak horsepower rating but not the peak torque rating. It does raise the total torque though.

    I believe the efficiency increase for the S/C comes on the upper end which is where it usually fell off. Sure, it spins faster, but the engine is also requiring much more air. So this is where inefficiency is likely to show. So it is quite likely that the lower end of the torque/power curves are little changed or unchanged while the upper end of the curves are raised.

    As far as the tranny, GM Powertrain rates it at 280 lb-ft. But they don't have separate ratings for the 4T65-E and the 4T65-E HD, so it is unclear which that rating is for. But mainly, why would there be no performance gain from raising the torque? It isn't like the tranny can only transmit 280 or 300 lb-ft. It's just all it can handle. Like if you had a crank rated at 400hp. If you put it in an engine rated at 450hp, it wouldn't limit the engine to 400 somehow. It would just break eventually. You would still have the performance gain of that extra 50 hp right up until the crank has enough.

    Also Bushwack, GM does have GPS in cars. It is called OnStar. I think what you mean is a navigation system. I have a feeling that they are not as popular as they seem. Sure, the auto magazines always test cars with them, praise cars for offering them, and then curse them for being such a pain. If you've used one, they tend to be annoying. How many times when you drive do you not know where you are going? And how many times do you change something on the radio or climate control? Nav systems make getting directions easier and changing radio and climate settings much harder. So it makes sense to design for the common case. The common case is using the radio or the climate control. If you really need directions, push the OnStar button and deal with the rare inconvenience of not having the maps show up on a screen (as opposed to the everyday inconvenience of your radio controls always showing up on a screen).

    The Aurora has had a nav system available for 2002 and 2003, and I have yet to see a car so equipped. And believe me, I check out a lot of Auroras. I also search GM Buy Power a lot just to see what is out there, and have never seen one built with it. Maybe it is just my area, though, but I suspect my area would be more likely to get a nav system rather than less likely (DC metro area). On the forums I attend, one person has the nav system. I really don't think people buy them much.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    verdi- yes, in its day. You won't sway the domestics crowd.
  • jpstaxjpstax Posts: 250
    Thanks for the info about the new Series III motor. Looks like the engine would benefit from a high-flow air filter because of the high air intake required by the new S/C. However, no one has answered my question, which is, will the new '04 Regal GS also be getting this same great engine. As I said before, the Pontiac GTP and Regal GS have shared the same engines for the past 7-8 years. Any thoughts?
  • rjs200240rjs200240 Posts: 1,277
    As far as I know, there is no new Regal for 2004. It is a carryover, and thus I doubt it will get the Series III engine. But it does seem like all the 3800 cars should get it for 2004, doesn't it?

    I'm hoping that the Regal will be redone with one of the high feature V6's when it is redesigned (likely for 2005).
  • jpstaxjpstax Posts: 250
    You'd think all cars equipped with the 3800 Series II will get the new Series III. Not so with the '04 Impala SS and Monte Carlo SS. Apparently GM didn't want to step on Pontiac's toes. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the Series III will be offered for the two Chevy SS cars and the Buick GS of the future.
  • BushwackBushwack Posts: 258
    Yes...I was referring to a navigation system and not a GPS like OnStar.

    I differ with you in that Nav systems are popular and provide a great benefit for the driver. I also have a new LS 400 w/ a nav system and I can't imagine buying another car w/o a navigation system. If your driving consists of runs to the market and movie theratres, I see your point. But otherwise,...
  • rjs200240rjs200240 Posts: 1,277
    jpstax, I doubt GM is protecting Pontiac's toes in that the Regal isn't getting the engine. The W-body got redesigned/updated for the '04 GP. The new engine goes with the new platform. The Regal will continue to ride on the current/old W-body along with the Impala and Monte. So I'm sure they will get the engine when they get the new W-body. Although it is possible they won't go on the W-body, or that GM will match the new high-feature and high-value engines up with the new W-body in the future (they aren't ready yet). The redesigned 3800 may just be to buy a little time to introduce the new engines. Since the new GP came out first, and before these engines were ready, maybe a quick redesign of the 3800 was a temporary fix. I have a feeling the 3800's days are limited...

    Bushwack, I don't want to tell you a nav system isn't useful. If you like it, that is excellent. But I don't just drive to the market and theater. But I almost always drive somewhere that I know how to get to. Do you often find yourself driving to places you've never been and aren't sure how to get to? Also, what is your experience with the radio and climate buttons? Are they a bit harder to access, or not really? Thanks!
  • I have a '95 Buick Regal GS that I purchased used. The paint on the roof of the car is peeling away from the primer in big chunks. It seems as if the paint is no longer adhering to the primer. Has anyone else had this problem?
  • jpstaxjpstax Posts: 250
    I never said that Buick wouldn't want to step on Pontiac's toes by installing the new 3800 Series III in the '04 Regal GS. I only said that Chevy wouldn't want to step on Pontiac's toes by installing it in the '04 Impala SS and '04 Monte SS. I still feel the Buick Regal GS deserves this new engine, as does the Pontiac GTP. It shouldn't take that many modifications to install it. Or am I wrong in this assumption?
  • bigunit67bigunit67 Posts: 62
    Thanks for the replies everyone. I don't get to stop by and check as much as I would like. Kdawg79, what all went wrong with your car? Mine has passed the 60,000 mile mark on the odometer and I was curious what your history was with the Regal.

    I got the chance to run this tranny problem by someone else who owns a '00 GS, and he's not had any of the problems I've had - winter or summer. Maybe coolant temp plays a role, but maybe it's getting help from some (for now) unknown bug/feature in the GM tranny???

    Thanks
  • rjs200240rjs200240 Posts: 1,277
    Is the actual color peeling off, or is a clear layer peeling from the color layer? Clearcoats can fail fairly easily if the car has been aggressively buffed. The UV protection in clear is in the very top of the layer, and significant buffing can easily strip it. The bad part is it won't be readily apparent until the sun has time to ruin the paint.

    Maybe that isn't what you are seeing, but that's more common than paint coming off the primer.

    Jpstax, I just have a feeling that the new 3800 won't go into any W-bodies until they get redone. I wouldn't think it would be that hard either, I just bet it won't happen. However, the Regal is made in Oshawa Ontario while the GP is made in Fairfax Kansas. So they don't share a line or anything.
  • Thanks for the response. The actual paint is coming off and all that is under it is gray primer. I have spoken with a few other people in the area that I live, and they have had similar problems. One just had to have his hood and roof repainted. Incidently, they all own '95 regals.
  • BushwackBushwack Posts: 258
    I often drive to new locations so the Nav System is an asset. Especially if for whatever reason you take a detour - the nav system will reconfigure the route as you drive to your destination.
     
    On the LS 400, it is easy to use - anything computerized is easy to use once you know the system. I will say that not too long ago I drove an Acura RL for a week in Colorado. Acura's Nav System has to be the easiest to use w/o needing to open a manual (I the car was great, too). On the other hand, I'm told by a friend who drives a Jaguar that their nav system could be a bit moe 'accurate' and user friendly.
  • patssoxpatssox Posts: 8
    Lioness116,

    What color(s) are we talking about here. I have a White '95 Regal (135,000 miles) that has just started to peel paint on the trunk and fuel cap.

    Also, I saw a Lumina (around a '95) recently that was White and looked like it was recovering from a bad sunburn.

    FWIW, I had an '89 Blue Corsica that GM repainted at almost 100,000 miles since the paint was peeling off in chunks.

    Paul
  • Paul,
    My '95 Regal is also white with just over 65,600 miles on it. I've just noticed another bubble that is starting to peel in the front of the roof. The back of the roof now has about a 9 in. by 4 in. peel that just happened over the winter. At this rate, by the end of the summer my roof will be all gray primer! I have a sunroof also. With the repainting of your Corsica, did GM foot the bill for that? I definitely think that this is a defect in my paint and I don't want to have to pay for a paint job.
    Kelly
  • kdawg79kdawg79 Posts: 26
    Hey,

    I haven't been here in a while but here is the answer to your question.

    3 power window motors
    2 climate control display/head units
    3 pan gaskets
    1 oil pan
    1 valve cover gasket
    1 seat heater
    1 combination switch (in the steering column, makes turn signals work)
    1 supercharger belt tensioner
    Coolant gelled in radiator before 70,000 miles. Resulted in corroded radiator. Required $400 acid flush to fix per GM service bulletin. I complained to Buick and got $200 back.
    The remaining window motor that hasn't been replaced runs slow and will probably go before long.
    Carpet keeps pulling up by drivers door.

    That's all I can think of right now. I think I'm leaving something out. If I remember it. I will post it later. I'm sure glad I bought the 100,000 mile extended warranty. Just before I get to 100,000 I'm getting rid of these piece. I'm not buying GM again.

    My Mom's 1998 GS has had at least the following:

    2 power window motors replaced
    1 climate control head/display
    1 pan gasket

    That's all I can think of.

    Kdawg
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