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Isuzu Future Models

gpm5gpm5 Posts: 785
edited April 22 in Isuzu
http://www.isuzuaxiom.com/

Its squashed down look sort of reminds me of the Volvo 4WD wagon.
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Comments

  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    gpm5, thanks for the link. I spent about 10 minutes browsing the site.

    My bottom line: This vehicle seems to be a Trooper in tall wagon clothing. To me, that's a good thing. We'll see whether other consumers agree (i.e. how well it sells).

    I'm going to the Detroit auto show media night next Thursday and the black tie charity event next Friday, so I'll let you know what I think of it after having a closer look.

    Some thoughts:

    * The vehicle seems to borrow much of its mechanicals from the Trooper: 3.5L V6, although it's tweaked for 230hp in the Axiom, 4-speed auto trans, TOD 4WD system, frame, etc.

    * I can't think of any other crossover/tall wagon/small SUVs that are really a truck at heart. Vehicles like BMW X5, Lexus RX300, Subaru Forester, Honda CR-V, etc. are all car-based and don't have the ability to do some of the things that it appears this vehicle can do (e.g. tow 4500 pounds, go off-roading, etc.). I wonder if this will turn out to be a competitive advantage or disadvantage for Isuzu.

    * It's not quite as short as it looks. 67" is as tall as the current Explorer, and 5" taller than the Subaru Legacy Outback wagon.

    * It will probably be pretty quick. It's 300-600 pounds lighter than the Trooper, with a slightly tweaked version of the same 3.5L motor.

    * It seems to be about the same size as the Rodeo on the inside. With a bigger more powerful engine and a more flexible 4WD system, won't the Axiom horn in on the Rodeo's market share?

    * 85 cubic feet of cargo room with rear seat folded is quite competitive in the midsize/compact SUV class (Explorer, 4Runner, Blazer, Pathfinder, etc.). The Trooper is at 90 cubic feet, and I don't think the others in the class are any higher than 85.

    * I wonder how well-built the vehicle will be. It sounded like the Axiom will be built at the same plant as Rodeo. I guess we'll find out what makes the Trooper so well put-together: the actual parts it's made with (roughly same as Axiom) or the fact it's assembled in Japan (different).

    * I think I like the looks but can't tell for sure from a few pictures.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I know I just posted, but I've got a couple more thoughts.

    Axiom's exterior is reminiscent of the Volvo Cross Country wagons. Also reminds me a bit of the Mitsubishi Montero Sport, with the tall short glass along the sides and the no-sides-parallel side cargo glass.

    I didn't see on the site an on-sale date?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yep it gets a 230hp 3.5 due to the computer upgrade on the ECU, so next year the Trooper will get at least that! The Axiom, also is squarely between the Trooper and the Rodeo...

    No power folding mirrors, heated optional
    No heated seats.
    Only a 4 way power drivers seat
    No skylight.
    No outside Tire...

    I personally don't like the liftgate and spare tire location, but it has 3 rows of seats.

    I just hope they beef up the Trooper into the Land Crusier class in it's next itteration.

    -mike
  • gpm5gpm5 Posts: 785
    It may well be that people will love it and take it on as a new offroad vehicle and onroad SUV. Its hard to tell from the pictures. Good points on the 230 horses and the weight.
  • gpm5gpm5 Posts: 785
    I'm contemplating taking on a Suburban or something comparable as a replacement for our minivan at some stage--~2 yrs down the road. I wonder if the next generation trooper will have this size?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    My guess is it will move uptown, in both size and price. Trooper, Axiom, and Rodeo are all pretty close in size and capabilities, and probably price. Isuzu will likely try to differentiate the three. Making Trooper larger, more luxurious, and more powerful is a logical step. I don't know how they can distinguish the Rodeo from the Axiom.

    The only thing is, will the Trooper finally have a V8? If it gets any bigger (which probably means heavier too), it will almost be a MUST. Where will it come from? I can't see Isuzu designing and building a V8 from scratch. The economies of scale just wouldn't be there-- too much development cost and not enough units to put the engine into. Borrowing one of the GM engines seems a likely option. Their new line of V8s seem pretty powerful, as does the 270hp 4.2L inline 6 that's coming out on the Bravada and its siblings this year. I wonder about reliability, though.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    Paisan, you've definitely been studying that Axiom web site to pick up on some of those subtle differences!

    It does sound like Isuzu tried to make some improvements in features/creature comforts beyond what the Trooper offers. My wife's 98 Mitsu Galant has Homelink, and it's great (we only use it as a garage door opener). From the small interor picture, it looks like the Axiom interior is different from the Trooper's.

    paisan, where did you see that Axiom will have a 3rd row seat? 182.6" length and 106.4" wheelbase are slightly smaller than Trooper, so it doesn't seem like there would be a whole lot of room for a 3rd row seat unless Isuzu made some design/engineering improvements in the interior.

    The specs do not indicate a manual transmission. A manual trans-equipped Axiom would be a true sportwagon. I wonder if Isuzu will ever offer TOD or a similar system with manual transmission. I guess I'm still glad they offer a manual trans, period.

    It appears that a 2WD model will be offered.
  • gpm5gpm5 Posts: 785
    They use this V8 in their commercial trucks. Anybody know, is this a GM engine?

    V8 SFI Gasoline
    5.7 L (350.0 CID)
    250 HP @ 4,200 RPM
  • sbcookesbcooke Posts: 2,297
    The new 300HP GM Diesel motor for the Chevy pickup's is an Isuzu motor.

    Also in the Edmunds Future Telling section there are several future GM models, the pictures are dark but they look similar to those of the Axiom.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yes the Duramax GM engine is an Isuzu engine. Imagine all those good ole boys with their Pickups having an Isuzu under the hood!

    I've heard Isuzu is actually designing the new S-10/S-15/Hombre from the ground up and will sell it to GM, and I've also heard that Isuzu is developing a Gas V8 DOHC. So that is possible for the new Trooper.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I got a lot of the specs and stuff from "Inroads" which is the inhouse dealer magazine for Isuzu. I think that's where I saw the 3rd row of seats for the axiom too.

    -mike
  • pogofxpogofx Posts: 6
    The current Car and Driver has a review on the Axiom (Feb 01 issue). It's built on the Rodeo chasis but with many of the features of the Trooper (engine, TOD) as you guys noted. Kind of a mixed review. I still think it looks cool but can't see giving up my 99 Trooper any time soon unless, of cours, a V8 comes out in the future.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    With the rear suspension of a rodeo. But not positive.

    -mike
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    Won't the Axiom be built at the same plant / on the same assembly line as the Rodeo? I'm no engineer, but it would seem like the Axiom would be pretty likely to have the same chassis if it's rolling off the same line. I would be much more excited about the Axiom if it is built with the same quality and reliability as the Trooper. My impressions of the Rodeo's reliability are not as positive. I still like much of what the Rodeo offers, though.

    I'm gonna check out the Car & Driver web site right now.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Check out this link on the outdoor wire. South of the Border, you get Chevy Badged Isuzus.

    http://www.outdoorwire.com/ubb/Forum68/HTML/002037.html

    -mike
  • paisan, could you do me a favor finding the magazine article
    which describes the 3rd row seat in Axiom.

    I can't find any informations in other sites.

    I think Axiom will be the perfect car which fits
    all my needs if it has the 3rd row seat.

    thanks.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I checked through the Isuzu Inroads magazine article, but they don't mention how much seating it has so I can't verify that it has a 3rd row. An alternative option would be to get a Trooper and buy a 3rd row of seats from http://www.littlepassengerseats.com/ which carries them in OEM materials. I've heard a lot of good things about that company as far as 3rd row seating.

    -mike
  • I was reading on one of the websites that the Axiom is going sell for 35k. This seems a little high. Does anyone else have any pricing info?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    No official pricing, but I'd put it @ MSRP of $30-$32K for the loaded one. Which means the actual price will be around $26-$28K after rebates, etc. My Trooper stickered at $32K, signed sealed and delivered (less tax) for $27,500, and more recently my buddy got his Trooper LS w/moonroof (same as mine) for $26,500

    -mike
  • Thanks for the info Paisan.

    One more thing - it's not coming out until April?

    Thanks,

    Lori
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    That it will be in east coast show rooms in 2-3 weeks, west coast in 3-4weeks.

    -mike
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    This is pure speculation, but the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is that Isuzu will start offering diesel engines again (after a long hiatus) in their vehicles sometime in the near future. This would seem to be one of the few competitive advantages that Isuzu could exploit in the market, since there are very few diesels or other superior fuel-efficiency trucks on the market today. With their expertise in building these engines, it wouldn't seem too expensive for them to drop one or two into their American line of products.

    Also, I saw a concept Isuzu in Auto World Weekly today. The concept vehicle was fitted with a 3.0 liter 6 cylinder turbodiesel, which Isuzu is already putting into other vehicles in markets other than North America.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Imagine this...

    Landcruiser size with the Duramax (which is really an Isuzumax) engine and Allison 5 speed automatic. Call it a Trooper and it will Troop with the best of em, probably tow like 10,000 lbs too :)

    -mike
  • Isn't the Duramax Diesel a 300hp V8???!!! That would be incredible.

    I still think they should do something like that in the Limited though and keep the V6 at least on the S model. Remember, one of the most appealing things about the Trooper is that it's a large, well equipped, powerful SUV that's actually affordable!

    Is the Axiom really going to be available in a month or less?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    With the Axiom coming out, they will probably have to push the Trooper larger. In which case, they'll have to put more power cause once the Trooper hits 5000lbs, the 3.5 is gonna be pretty weak to pull it. That's just a total off the wall idea but probably not far off mark.

    -mike
  • sbcookesbcooke Posts: 2,297
    I was reading a review on edmunds about the axiom. They compare it to the rodeo, even with the same build issues. It sounds like a rodeo with a trooper drivetrain.

    http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/2001losangelesautoshow/44468/page006.html
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'm pretty sure it's a trooper chassis, being built @ SIA. There has been a lot of mis-information out about the Axiom (no low range was a rumor that didn't materialize, it does in fact have Low range. The only thing Rodeo about it is the rear suspension IIRC.

    -mike
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I just read the Jan. 2001 Ward's Automotive article on Axiom. Some good info. It's a Rodeo chassis with a Trooper drivetrain, according to the article. I'm sure that's correct, since they talked to the president of American Isuzu for the article.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I was at the supplier previewon Thursday night, so things weren't busy and I had a chance to climb in the Axiom. I only saw one there, and there was no written info or helpful host/hostess. Here's what I noticed:

    * Interior looked nice. The controls all seemed friendly and modern but not overdone.
    * Seats were a dark tan leather. I really liked the color; classy and rich-looking. Rest of the interior was a combo of dark tan and black. Overall, very pleasing to the eye.
    * Extra powerpoint up front (plus the regular cigarette lighter), plus one in the cargo area.
    * This unit didn't have a 3rd row seat.
    * Speakers: each of the 4 doors had a high-mounted tweeter. Also, I think each door had a larger speaker mounted further down.
    * Two suspension settings: Sport and Comfort
    * Center console housed a CD changer. Console isn't much better than current Trooper's; not good. It's not that big, and much of the room is hogged up by the CD changer.
    * Better rear cupholder design (same crappy location at back of front center console) than in Trooper
    * This truck is definitely shorter than the Trooper, or at least it seems that way when you're inside.
    * Rear seating has lots of room. However, the seating position is where I noticed a difference vs. Trooper. The floor seems to be higher in relation to the seat, so my legs felt like they were sitting up higher
    * 235-65-17 Goodyear Integra? tires (IIRC)
    * The 3.5L engine (we already knew that)
    * Spare tire mounted underneath (below the cargo area, outside the vehicle)
    * Moonroof didn't seem as huge as Trooper's
    * Rear cargo door is a "traditional" style, one-piece, that opens upward (like the Explorer's cargo door)
    * I couldn't figure out how the second row seats folded down
    * Didn't really like the front-end styling but liked the rest of the exterior

    Overall, I liked the Axiom. I only looked at it for about 10 minutes, so that's all I can remember. I'm going to the Black Tie Charity Preview event tonight, so I'll try to take another look at it.

    The 2001 Isuzu brochure had a little blurb on the Axiom (which is a 2002 vehicle), but not a whole lot of details.

    I did get some other info about the Axiom: there were free copies of Ward's Automotive January 2001 issue (The 2001 Ten Best Engines issue), so I grabbed a couple. There's a one-page article on the Axiom, with some good info. They talked with the president of American Isuzu and got some good future info on Axiom and other Isuzu products. I'll put that in a separate post...
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I wonder why the changer isn't in-dash like the rest of the isuzus? That's really whacky. I am glad to hear it isn't cutting into the Trooper area (moonroof, seating position, size)

    Long live the Trooper (with some minor mods it could be a top notch vehicle)

    -mike
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