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The real value of "old" cars?

isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
edited August 14 in Mercury
Maybe I'm just out of touch with the market?

Attended a local car show yesterday and walked around for an hour or so.

The Northwest Cougar Club was the sponser so, as you would imagine, Cougars dominated the show. I didn't realize there were so many in the area and the following they have.

Spotted a 1968 for sale. Base model, red/black vinyl top. Nothing special, 289 engine, AT no A/C or anything else that I could see.

Mediocre repaint job at some point in it's life. Not a "bad" paint job but not a good one either.

Reported to have only 50,000 miles.

So, I'm guessing he probably wants 5-6000.00 for it.

Nope! Asking price was 13,500!

Is he looking for a sucker? Is he nuts or am I totally out of grips with the reality of the market?

Anyone a Cougar expert?
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Comments

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,714
    Your estimate looks closer to reality to me.

    To paraphrase Shifty: asking prices are the ultimate expression of freedom of speech :shades:
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,577
    You're on the money, as far as Ebay's concerned. They get bid between $3k and $9k, sounds like your would fall in the middle somewhere. Of course, that was at a Cougar show, so lots of pride in that price...
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,328
    Took the Mustang to the Port Orchard Mustang show yesterday & the 66 Hardtop that was next to mine is for sale. 289, Automatic, Style steel wheel covers that imitate the real things. Tahoe Turquoise color, AT, PS, 100,000 miles - a decent looking car, no rust, and he was asking 10 grand for it. One family was seriously interested, but the owner drove it home.

    IMO, the reality of the Mustang/Cougar market is anything but standard. My experience is that the Class 2's usually have a too high asking price as do the Class 3/4's.

    13,500 should get you an XR7 with Leather, working headlights & sequentials, and a very decent exterior & interior in excellent detailed condition.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    Thanks for the responses. I'm glad I was thinking right.

    There was a near perfect burgandy XR-7 there. Not for sale but it couldn't have been any nicer. Air cond, factory sunroof and most of the other available options.

    It had a 390 engine and when I took a look, I was reminded about what a B***H it was to change spark plugs in those!

    I forgot about those sequentials that they shared with the T-Birds. I saw one being worked on once and what a primitive setup those were!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    Sounds like a stretch although I think Mustangs pull more money than Cougars do.

    More like 6000.00 I'm thinking it's worth.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,855
    Cougars are the "poor sister" to Mustangs and generally do sell for less.

    Asking prices are rather meaningless. It is not the owners, not the sellers, not the club members, not the concours judges, not the appraisers---who determine Market Value.

    The buyer determines Market Value.

    When an owner prices a car at exactly double the going rate, then my opinion is that the car is not seriously for sale. It's a trolling game of some sort, or some attempt to justify the outlay for the car or its restoration.

    MODERATOR

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,714
    I think that loaded XR7 was at the Mustang show too...cool car, I like highly optioned unsual packages like that.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    You should come to the Triple X drive in in Issaquah. Cars tehre every Saturday night in the summer and on Sundays too.

    Yeah, it was probably the same car.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,714
    I've been out there a couple times for MB themed gatherings (which were of course small)...maybe someday I'll take my old Panzerwagen out there to mingle with the Detroit iron :shades:
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    I think you had to remove the master cylinder on the Mustang Boss 429 to get at the last two spark plugs on the left side of the engine.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    It's funny you would mention the Boss 429's.

    Just last night I watched a couple go through the Barrett-Jackson Auction on television. One went for 250,000! Add the 10% buyers fee to that!

    And, yeah, I'll bet they were a nightmare to work on!
  • otto8otto8 Posts: 116
    Do a search on a 68 Cougar GTE
    427 auto only Several sticks were made but had a 428 instead
    Around 375 of these were made.
    BIG money car IF you can find one!

    Another is a 68 Fairlane GTA 390 auto Another rare Ford!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,855
    Looks like $35-$40K could find you a real nice one. My book says 602 made, for whatever that's worth. Maybe nut and bolt restoration would get you $60K, if you could find a buyer at that price--but it would cost you more than that to get to show quality.

    GTA 390 would be worth about the same, maybe just a little less.

    The problem is neither one is a Mustang, so a smaller buyer pool. A '68 Stang GT 428CJ would sell faster IMO.

    MODERATOR

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    Those 390 Mustangs and Fairlanes handled horribly. About as bad or maybe worse than a T-Bird of that vintage.

    Very nose heavy as you would expect.

    Attended a car show today and someone had a 1964 GTO for sale. It was nice but nothing special at all. The "post" model. I didn't look but it was a stick so I'll assume a four and not a three speed. Mediocre repaint and, again, just a driver.

    For Sale! 34,500!! That's worse than that Cougar!
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,970
    My old man had a '64 GTO post back in the early 70's. I still barely remember the night he bought it...riding home with Mom, following Dad in that thing. The exhaust was dragging, and we were treated to a shower of sparks on a pretty regular basis. As a little kid, that scared the hell out of me! I also remember him running out of gas in it, picking me up from nursery school, a few hundred feet from the Shell station.

    It was primer black, and pretty crappy overall from what little I remember. He paid $400 for it around 1973 or so, and when he finally sold it he got $400, plus the seller threw in a bag of...umm...paprika? :shades: Hey man, it WAS the 70's!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,855
    edited August 2010
    Sounds like a low $20K to mid $20sK at the very best. If the paint looks really crappy, and it's an automatic and no tri-power, it could drop under $20K easily, possibly down to $16K or so for a drab driver with cosmetic issues. For rust, body damage, incorrect parts, deduct accordingly even more.

    People can "ask" anything they want. It's the man with the checkbook that sets the real value of any car.

    don't tell me---nobody bought it.

    MODERATOR

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    I didn't stick around to see if it sold.

    I suspect the owner just threw a For Sale sign on it to see if he could find a sucker.

    It really wasn't very nice. The dash had been repainted poorly for one thing.

    I didn't spend much time looking at it. I was afraid the owner would show up and that my shock at his asking price would show.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,855
    A car like that is not really for sale, when there is such a massive disconnect between the owner's price and the readily available information on actual market value.

    MODERATOR

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    You never know.

    Some Microsoft guy's dad may have had it's twin when he was little and it's a car he just HAS to have.

    That's probably what that guy was trolling for.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,855
    I think the days of the naive ignorant buyer of classic cars is long over.

    MODERATOR

  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    Funny how cheap that car was back in the day. Even with a dragging muffler and a primer black paint, a 1964 GTO would be sold at a premium nowadays. My Dad had a maroon 1965 Pontiac GTO convertible with a white top. I think he sold it for the laughably low sum of $250 or thereabouts in 1975 because the top was ratty and the valve covers leaked.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    There was a 1966 "GTO" for sale at a Buy Here Pay Here lot on Harbison Avenue in lower NE Philly not too long ago. It was a post sedan with a most definitely non-factory color repaint that would make Earl Scheib blanch and was actually a LeMans or Tempest made up to look like a GTO with badges and such. It probably had the inline six. Wonder what they wanted for it and if there was anybody stupid and naive to go for it?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,970
    Funny thing is, my Dad said that even nice examples of old cars really weren't all that much back in those days. He said that he probably could have gotten a much nicer '64 GTO for about the same price he paid for that thing. Adjusted for inflation, $400 in 1973 comes out to around $2,000 today. And think about how little car $2K gets you these days!

    We also had a '64 Ford Galaxie 4-door around that timeframe. Dad always had some piece of junk with a stick shift that Mom couldn't drive, but if he wanted to go out partying with his friends on the weekend, he'd take Mom's car instead. First, the '66 Catalina convertible she had, and later the '68 Impala 4-door hardtop that replaced it. My granddad got tired of that, so he got us this '64 Ford. I think he paid less than $100 for it, and it only needed a starter, or an alternator, I forget now.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    I'm not so sure about that.

    Take a look at this one on Ebay. 8700.00 with a day to go!

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1960-PONTIAC-BONNEVILLE-389-CA-HARDTOP-ALL-ORIGIN- AL-NR-/290461681269?pt=US_Cars_Trucks

    A nothing special 1960 Pontiac that is definatly a "20 footer".

    To the seller's credit, he did a good job of posting photos that are pretty revealing.

    The rockers are rusted out on one side and from my experience there is always a lot more rust than meets the eye, Even though it's a So. Calif car they can rust when the drains aren't kept clear and it looks like that is the case here.

    It probably needs a mechanical rebuild after all of those miles and who knows what else? Those were known for weak front ends and those Hydra-Matics weren't the best.

    8700.00? I was thinking 2500-3500 dollars tops.

    But, what do I know?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,855
    Oh well that's a pretty special car actually---it looks dead stock original, has a California black plate on it (which adds value) and the underside looks pretty darn good, too. That car is worth $12K all day long. And it's a Bonnie, and it's a '60.

    Here again, the bidders know what they are doing---this car has everything buyers want---originality, California known history, good year, good model, and hasn't been messed with by monkeys.

    Take the same year, lower trim line, lived in the Midwest, been slammed and has funny wheels on it---and the value would be 1/4 of that.

    MODERATOR

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    Well, if that's the case, I am totally out of touch.

    Yes, it's a CA black plate car and I know that is very desirable to some. Maybe because I'm from that neck of the woods, I take that for granted.

    It still has rust and needs a total restoration which would exceed it's value.

    It is a survivor but it just seems like it's going to need everything unless the buyer just leaves it as it is.

    I don't see 12,000 but it'sll be interesting to see where the bidding stops.
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    The trunk lid area on that '60 Bonneville is huge and so flat. I've not seen a deck that large since the U.S.S. Nimitz. :P
  • parmparm Posts: 723
    Here's an interesting item. How do you comp this?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,714
    Presentable survivor cars are big now, there is a huge movement for patina and originality. I am not surprised at those bids, even with the needs of the car.
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    edited August 2010
    It's been listed before on ebay with no sale. Hard to comp because of how few were built. There was another one on the market within the past year or so but I have no recollection of it's particulars.

    I'm an old Poncho fanatic and find it hard to see that kind of money for it (bidding currently at 26K) even given that wagon values have jumped over the last few years.
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