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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Hey gang - let's keep the discussions on cars and leave politics out of it.

    Many thanks!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think that this is impressive and very lucky for a Chrysler Corp. product. We owned two Chryslers :lemon: , and learned never to buy one again due to the suspension problems, dangerous transmission failures, and numerous creaks, rattles, and instances of poor interior quality. :lemon:

    Oh, and, by the way, Plymouth made only the Voyager and Grand Voyager van. Dodge makes the Caravan (and Grand Caravan). Chrysler now manufactures the Voyager as the 'bargain basement' Caravan alternative, but only Dodge made the Caravan. Just thought I would clear that up....

    (Although a mistake on Chrysler's part by putting the wrong badge on a car wouldn't surprise me at all, and frankly, would be one of the least of that company's manufacturing problems! :sick: )
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You are right in your subject line..."One has to wonder..."

    One has to wonder why someone would pass over a brand of vehicle with proven reliability, superior power and fuel economy, a Best Pick from the IIHS crash test people, and one of the top resale values in its class.... Could I be wrong? Let's examine the facts...

    Resale Value : Original Price on a 2000 Odyssey EX without NAVI system -$27000
    Current Resale Value (according to Intellichoice): $15862
    Original Price on a 2000 Dodge Caravan ES -$29405
    Current Resale Value (according to Intellichoice): $10895

    No, couldn't be that....B/C he just lost seven grand in five years from new price to resale

    Horsepower maybe....
    2000 Odyssey horsepower-210 ; 2005 Odyssey horsepower-255

    2000 Gr. Caravan horsepower-180 (in top form) ; 2005 Gr. Caravan horsepower- 215

    Nope....Honda wins that battle too...hmmm. I know, I bet it's the quality or new car value, right?

    Intellichoice's Best Van under $25,000 : Honda Odyssey LX

    Intellichoice's Best Van over $25,000: Honda Odyssey EX

    Wow, the Dodge loses that too. Seems like a good thing that Dodge offers no less than a thousand dollars off the sticker at any given point, because Honda mops the floor with it.

    Will you buy a Honda over a Dodge now? It really doesen't matter to me. But you can't say I didn't warn you!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    NB: More accollades/awards for Ody from,

    1.) CR
    2.) C & D
    3.) Money
    4.) Kiplingers
    5.) Edmunds - "The BMW of minvans"
    6.) Motor Trend
    7.) Road & Track
    8.) And others

    The accollade speaks for themselves. When they all sing the same praises, nothing else matters.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Oh, and, by the way, Plymouth made only the Voyager and Grand Voyager van. Dodge makes the Caravan (and Grand Caravan). Chrysler now manufactures the Voyager as the 'bargain basement' Caravan alternative, but only Dodge made the Caravan. Just thought I would clear that up....

    (Although a mistake on Chrysler's part by putting the wrong badge on a car wouldn't surprise me at all, and frankly, would be one of the least of that company's manufacturing problems! )


    Sorry but DaimlerChrysler Corp builds both the Dodge Caravans and Chrysler Town n Country in the same plants. They no longer build a Voyager low cost version, please check their website.

    Wow, gotta admit the Honda folks are vocal here!! Just check out the number of Honda Posts on just this website, then consider the total number of minvans they've actually sold over the years compared to DCX!!! They're passionate about their Minivans for sure!!

    For a majority of people here, it's a MINIVAN!!! Point A - B transport plain and simple. This is my third DCX van. The previous two were company vehicles - base model 96 and 99 Dodges. I abuse my company vehicles, we turn em in after 70,000 miles. Neither had any issues outside of normal wear and tear. That was enough for me to purchase a 2005 DGC SXT as a personal vehicle. I'm loving it....quiet, smooth, powerful enough (better towing capacity than a Honda/Toyota) and it was $10,000 less than an Oddy EX.

    I'll take my $10,000 savings, put it in a bank for 4-5 years with interest, add it to my resale and see whos ahead then!!! Hell, even if its just $5000 difference Honda would lose. I pity the Honda folks who paid above MSRP for their's!!!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    One has to wonder why someone would pass over a brand of vehicle with proven reliability, superior power and fuel economy, a Best Pick from the IIHS crash test people, and one of the top resale values in its class.... Could I be wrong? Let's examine the facts...

    LOL....so far all this proven reliability, superior power and fuel economy.....3 recalls in less than a year, ALL serious compared to Dodge's 1 so far. Superior power that gets you to 60 mph in a whole 1.5 seconds faster than a Dodge (we're talking stupid minivans). From what I see on this board and others, the Oddy is dismal for 2005.....Body issues, Door issues, Steering Issues, AC Issues, Mileage issues, Nav issues, Radio issues....all on top of the 3 recalls. It's fun to check out the Honda Problems chat!!! I highly recommend it for people in the market for a new van.

    Resale Value : Original Price on a 2000 Odyssey EX without NAVI system -$27000
    Current Resale Value (according to Intellichoice): $15862
    Original Price on a 2000 Dodge Caravan ES -$29405
    Current Resale Value (according to Intellichoice): $10895

    No, couldn't be that....B/C he just lost seven grand in five years from new price to resale


    Nice to take MSRPs and make up "figures", but how many Dodge owners actually paid sticker even back in 2000?? Then tack on the mark up Honda dealers were charging!!!! I looked at Oddys back then!!! Ouch!!! $2000 above MSRP??? There's this perception that Oddys are soo vastly superior.....but the current one is becoming quite the :lemon: yet some are willing to pay over sticker, take in their vans for recall after recall. It's fun to check out the Honda Problem areas!!!

    I see Dodge is back to selling tons of Minivans again with Stow N Go!!!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    "The previous two were company vehicles - base model 96 and 99 Dodges. I abuse my company vehicles, we turn em in after 70,000 miles. Neither had any issues outside of normal wear and tear. That was enough for me to purchase a 2005 DOGC SXT as a personal vehicle. I'm loving it....quiet, smooth, powerful enough (better towing capacity than a Honda/Toyota) and it was $10,000 less than an Oddy EX."

    As company vehicles where costs not driving/handling performance are emphasized more, the DOGC SXT serves its purpose very well. Being cheap relative to the others, they are the obvious choice by taxis and tradesmen in their daily jobs.

    If I had to use a minivan for my daily trade, the DOGC SXT would be my choice as well - it would hurt more to abuse a more expensive vehicle.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Looked at Cars direct(they have good prices not great but good),122.00. If you want side airbags its 24,006.00 The Honda Odyssey Ex is 26,681.00. The differance is 3,559.00 base which dosen't get you the side airbags and 2,0675.00 with side airbags if you could get them. So, your telling me you paid 16,681.00 for a Dodge GC SXT. You shoulda done my deal. I woulda got a Odyssey for way less than invoice. Check the customer ratings on the dodge and the reliability rating in consumer reports. All the problems yet we're so Happy go figure. Those problem boards are all about complaining. So do you think you'll hear people say they have no problems probably NOT!!!!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Fair enough that Dodge has to cut their prices to sell their cars, but my family's 2000 Odyssey EX was bought below sticker (yes, brand new). While we had to wait for three days to get it, we have never waited in the service department for anything more than an oil change. Something that cannot be said of either of our Chryslers. As far as my aunt's 2005 Odyssey EX goes, it has 10k miles on it now, was purchased for under $27k (which, by the way, is $2,000 below sticker [kinda like your Dodge, huh?]), and has had no technical issues to speak of. May we call a truce and say that neither automaker is perfect? I didn't mean to rile anyone up. Can't we all just get along?

    P.S. I have never had to use the lemon law to get my car repaired with Honda unlike my experience with Chrysler :lemon: ...But then again, I have never taken my Honda to be repaired...Life goes on... :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I am aware that the same corporation makes all three (or six if you seperate Grand and base model) minivans. If you read closely, I am referring to nameplates, not DaimlerChrysler. The Dodge "nameplate" didn't put the name "Dodge" on the same car as one with the name "Voyager", and vice-versa with "Plymouth" and "Caravan". Sorry if I confused you. ;)

    Referring to the last line of your post, I too pity the folks who paid above MSRP for their vehicles. My aunt's brand new Ody EX lists for approx $28,500, and she paid less than 26,500. I wonder who has paid over MSRP for the new Odyssey's? Our 2000 model even came in under sticker. Who'd-a-thunk it? :)
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I know there are many of you that think the Ody is the greatest thing on four wheels and that there is nothing as reliable and good as theirs. But let me tell you. One only has to go to Honda 2005 and Dodge/Chrysler, 2005 sites here at Edmonds to see how much of a myth that is. You have practically no one complaining of the 2005 Dodge/Chryslers. Even Edmonds says it's built tight as a drum. No Chrysler/Dodge owners are saying their doors don't close, there is wind noise, their seats are uncomfortable. Their radio sounds tinny. None of them have said their minivans don't have enough power. Their vans are working the way they were designed to work.

    Yes, you have some features on your Honda, that Chrysler doesn't offer. But Chrysler has stuff on their van Honda doesn't offer. Important things like auto door locks, battery power saver and stow-n-go seats. They have a motor in the doors that not only closes the sliding doors, but then draws them up tight after they close so they fit tight against the weather stripping so they don't rattle or let in wind noise. They have turn signal lights that come on when the side door is open to warn motorists that someone is about to exit the van on that side. Slidding doors that close easy no matter if you use the motor or do it by hand.

    Yes Chrysler has had some troubles with some previous minivans and you have read a lot of complaints about them. But Honda and other Japanese makes have had their share of problems too. You don't hear that many complaints only because they don't sell that many minivans. Chrysler has for years, sold more minivans than all the Japanese companies combined. I would be willing to bet if you put all the complaints from all the Japanese companies together, they would be as many as there is on the Chrysler vans. Earlier this year, Chrysler sold their 11,000,000 minivan. How many has Honda, Toyota or Nissan sold? There are still thousands upon thousands of first generation Chrysler minivans still on the road, running strong after over 20 years. When you put out over 11,000,000 minivans you can expect some complaints. You can expect a heck of a lot less if you've only put out 1 or 2 million.

    I could care less if a Honda can beat me to the next light by 1.6 seconds or can make a U turn two feet shorter than I can. I do know I got a real good buy on my van and saved thousands. I save even more with my zero percent financing. I got all the goodies I wanted on my van that Honda or Toyota don't even offer unless you plunk down thousands more.

    Will your minivan be worth 4-6 thousand more at trade in time than mine? Probably so. Although I think Stow-n-Go is really going to raise the value of these new vans. But I saved over that from day one when I bought it. And I will always be ready to load anything you can put in a minivan in a moments notice. You can't.

    So let's just keep track of the complaints of the 2005 Dodge/Chrysler owners compared to the 2005 Honda owners and see who is complaining the most. Even though they will out sell Honda by a big margin again.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Could it go into the new generation Dodge/Chrysler minivans?

    Bionic Breakthrough? DCX says its 70 mpg, diesel-powered car could meet U.S. emissions DaimlerChrysler AG executives on Tuesday unveiled a four-passenger, diesel-powered concept car that they say would earn a fuel economy rating of 70 mpg and would meet tough new U.S. tailpipe emission standards. The inspiration for its design is an odd undersea creature called the boxfish, which engineers and designers found has some of nature's best streamlining and a structure that is lightweight but strong.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    For those people who are "into" crash test ratings, here is the site http://www.safercar.gov
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Geezzzz, you'd think if DCX's quality was soooo bad, with 11 million owners out there, we'd rule this chat site with complaints and problems???

    Will their Honda be worth $4-6k more at trade in?? With all the recalls and problems?? Who knows? What do you think $5k in a savings acct (or my 401k) be worth in 4-5 years??? $7-8k??

    I love my Stow N Go - no more pulling seats out and trying to store them somewhere in my garage. It'll be interesting to see when and how Honda/Toyota come out with a version? From what I've read, it'll require a totally new frame/chasis (just like the millions DCX spent)....something Honda wasn't willing to do this time. They just took the spare tire location, and put in a lazy suzie.

    They have turn signal lights that come on when the side door is open to warn motorists that someone is about to exit the van on that side. Slidding doors that close easy no matter if you use the motor or do it by hand.

    I love this feature!!!! Also love my power rear windows. Mine came with power rear hatch (bought off lot) which I didn't think I needed, now I can't imagine life without it :)

    Best thing for me - the tow package - factory installed HD radiator, tranny, oil and steering coolers....$625!!!!

    So far 4k miles, 25 mpg highway (should improve), quiet, handles great....i'm lovin it :) now time for an egg mcmuffin!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Check the customer ratings on the dodge and the reliability rating in consumer reports. All the problems yet we're so Happy go figure.

    You can get a Honda below invoice!!!????
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    Dennis,

    Don't you get tired of saying the same things over and over and over ad nauseum?

    For crying out loud...just buy the minivan you happen to like the best!
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Posts: 461
    I guess if the Honda Ody people can't take it when their vehicle has competition then they should move on. Dennis keeps trying to educate the Ody buyers about the "true" cost of the Ody vs. the Chrysler, but some people refuse to listen and repeat their same story over and over again.

    Buy what you like, but let the rest of us enjoy a healthy debate.

    Chrysler has the "edge" right now with the Stow system just like Honda did with their "Magic" seat. Give credit where credit is due, Chrysler is riding the wave for now.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Dennis,

    Don't you get tired of saying the same things over and over and over ad nauseum?



    That's the way we feel when Honda owners try and make it sound like the Ody is the greatest thing since the invention of the automobile and never has to be worked on. It's defect free. (Of course it's a Honda) If Honda didn't put it on, it must not be worth putting on. It's like you guys have been programed to believe it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    Why are you Chrysler owners so combative?

    As far as "true" costs...just wait until trade in time when nobody wants to bid on your Chrysler. We get hit at least a thousand or two "back of book" every time on these. forget what the guides say. This is reality on these.

    Now, if you keep your cars ten years it isn't much of an issue.

    If you truly think the Stow n' Go seats are useful---GREAT!

    This is why restaurants have menus. What is good for one won't please the others.
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Posts: 461
    When someone disagrees with you you say that they are combative. You have said it to me about my previous posts. You don't seem to understand how to respond to a comparison if Honda doesn't come out on top. It is never Honda's problem it is the customers perception, bad seat, doors that open up in a crash testing, recall notices and the list goes on and on and......

    Again, it is Chryslers turn at bat and they have hit a home-run, get over it!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    This is a place to talk about the positives and negatives of your minivan buying experience. Hopefully it can help people ask questions about what they want from the car they buy. I liked the dodge Caravan(2001 I owned for 52 months) it was a ok vehicle, but definitely not great. Handled ok and never left me stranded. I did bring it in for alot of problems. Airbag light on(second day I had it), radio broken, wheatherstripping, strut replaced, 2 recalls, and power steering pump noise. All in 50,000 miles. Maybe mine was different but consumer reports says it a car to avoid(2001-2002) . I also found the seats too soft got fatigue(in my butt no less) after a while, and the interior was falling apart. Tryed to sell it in the paper but after a few weeks decided to trade it in. Paid 15,800.00 Trade in 4,700.00. The blue book trade in was 5300.00(Good condition but with all the paint chips and the second row back of seat coming apart it wasn't too good LOL).

    I was wondering why the owner satisfaction and experts reviews are so high on the honda.

    Here is what Consumer reports has to say.

    2005 Honda Odyssey EX- Overall test score Excellent
    HIGHS -Engine and transmission, ride, handling, interior flexibility, fit and finish, standard safety equipment.
    LOWS - No telescopic steering wheel
    2005 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT- Overall test score Good
    HIGHS - Interior flexibility
    LOWS - Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls, course engine

    The list of awards and praise go on. Even the site that marine gave me for the crash data says the seating comfort is EXCELLENT!!

    Now to be fair nothing is perfect and I have all of 1000 miles on my Honda. Will it be a better car(I hope so, but nothing is a given) The two trips to San Diego 200 miles round trip were oh so comfortable.Will be going to Sedona this next weekend, wow the RES is gonna be nice.

    It looks like the new Honda has at least two issues that could be a real drag. Rocks seem to be taked out the A/C and the wheatherstripping(Not the doors closing)at the bottom of the sliding doors are getting bent over and not sealing properly. There are companies that sell rock gaurds for about 60.00 bucks (none for the 2005 Odyssey yet but if this is a problem they'll make one). And hopefully honda will redesign a retrofit weather strip.

    BTW I love the Stow and GO seating. But that alone isn't enough for me to buy another Dodge. Also I love the Magnum and the new Charger(I'd love to have a RT in my driveway). But the Dodge GC just didn't have the comfort/handling/features that I wanted.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    "BTW I love the Stow and GO seating. But that alone isn't enough for me to buy another Dodge. Also I love the Magnum and the new Charger(I'd love to have a RT in my driveway). But the Dodge GC just didn't have the comfort/handling/features that I wanted."

    I feel the same as you, having rented 60+ minivans over my past 2yrs of business travels, mostly DGCs and some T & C (some fully loaded with less than 10 miles on the ODO). The sporty handling and spirited performance of the Ody cannot be matched. But I have never had reasons so far to remove the second row seats in my Ody for transporting anything.

    Always glad to get back to driving the Ody.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    As far as "true" costs...just wait until trade in time when nobody wants to bid on your Chrysler. We get hit at least a thousand or two "back of book" every time on these. forget what the guides say. This is reality on these.

    The reality is, the thousands I saved more than compensates me for lower resale value. In 4-5 years I'll sell it for whatever, take the money out of the bank.....and buy another. It's not rocket science here....just common sense.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    When someone disagrees with you you say that they are combative. You have said it to me about my previous posts. You don't seem to understand how to respond to a comparison if Honda doesn't come out on top. It is never Honda's problem it is the customers perception, bad seat, doors that open up in a crash testing, recall notices and the list goes on and on and......

    Again, it is Chryslers turn at bat and they have hit a home-run, get over it!


    EXACTLY!!!!! If you point out their 3 recalls and problems, actual substantial items you get nothing in response because they have none. But that's being "combative". Meanwhile we get attacked on little 0-60 times, or turning radius, or how to substantiate feelings like "my DCX vans were POC" or "always taking to dealer"???
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I must admit that stow-n-go made a large part of my decision to buy the DGC. But that was not the only reason by a long shot. It had the overhead computer and rear power hatch that Honda or Toyota couldn't give me for anywhere near what I paid. Plus zero financing.

    A five speed tranny, an engine that was a second or two faster, turning two feet shorter or stopping four feet shorter didn't enter my mind and I doubt it did most other Honda buyers. Most bought because Honda is a good looking van inside and they have been programed to believe nothing goes wrong with a Honda. I'm sure many didn't even drive it more than a couple of miles before buying it, or some wouldn't now be complaining of the front driver's seat hurting their back.

    Honda is a very good minivan. But it's got it's faults. I think the new 2005 Dodge/Chrysler minivans could be the best Chrysler has ever put out. Their engine is old, but it's proved to be strong and very reliable. It seems like Chrysler's problems with their trannies are behind them now and their four speed shifts smoothly and the minivan gets pretty good gas mileage using that combination.
    There are hardly anyone complaining of any major faults with the 2005's and it's been out for over a year now. The van is rattle and wind noise free, is quieter than any van Chrysler has ever made and it's "tight as a drum".

    Though many of you Honda owners think it's going to lose most of their value compared to Honda, I think the 2005 with stow-n-go, will be in big demand when they start hitting the used car market and will not devalue like other Chrysler/Dodge vans have. I know my brother can hardly wait to buy one, because he doesn't want to buy one new.

    One thing that has made Chrysler vans devalue more and not Honda, is that Chrysler puts out so many more than Honda which drives down price, because of competition and because Chrysler builds minivans from the top of the line to a bare bones model. Honda and Toyota do not fill the needs of people who just want or can afford a new minivan with just a few options on it. It only makes sense if looking for a minivan and there are a lot more to choose from with one make than there is another, the one that has the most, is going to have to sell it cheaper because there are other places to go to get the same van cheaper. It's works the same with coin collecting. The less there is, the more valuable it is. One big problem with making 11,000,000 minivans.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Again, it is Chryslers turn at bat and they have hit a home-run, get over it! <<

    Well they might have hit a home run with the stow and go seating. But in overall design the car is growing old. Hell its got a live rear axle and leaf springs. There is not a single expert on edmunds or anywhere esle that rates the 2005 GC higher than the 2005 Odyssey. But if you put in price and you keep a car 10 years. I can see it be very close in overall value.

    A homerun they may have hit with stow and go, but 1 run in the bottom of the ninth when your down by 5. Still dosen't win the game.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    Why are you Chrysler owners so combative? <<

    You only see it that way because you are biased. I have never seen you reply to some of the outrageous claims by Honda owners here (like say, a minivan owner that doesn't like to drive "spirited and engaging" is an "old fart". Why's that? Is that not combative? Do you agree with that statement?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Minivans aren't a hot market segment. Most peole dont know the dif between a solid axle or wishbone suspension, and don't care as long as it rides decently smooth and is quiet. Experts may value such things but it seems consumers are voting with $$$$. The only game I see is market share, and the new DCX Minivans and LX cars are help DCX increase it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    Sorry, but I have done this. I thought dae went over the top with some of his/her postings and I said so.

    And, no, I don't agree with that statement. In emergency handling, I would prefer the handling of an Odyssey way over that of a Chrysler.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Hey if you just went to this forum you'd surely think minivans were a hot market segment. I keep hearing about all the recalls and you also reference the 1999 Honda Odyssey vs the 2001 Caravan(which isn't much different fromthe one now). Seems that Edmunds did a long term study on both of those vans. You should read them pretty good stuff. Recalls problems Dodge- 10 Honda -3. I'll be damned if it isn't the same problems as mine just switch A/C condenser for weather stripping. I will not sit here and say all is perfect with honda.

    Here's how I see the advantages(not in any order)
    Honda
    1. Ride and handling
    2. Fit and Finish
    3. 0-60 times
    4. Standard safety equipment
    5. Brakeing
    6. Engine and transmission
    7. Fuel economy

    Dodge
    1. Price
    2. Interior flexibility
    3. Mature product(possibility of less recalls)
    4. More available options

    I think the experts are right on the Caravan is a GOOD but a little old. The price difference and available options make it attractive for some buyers.

    But for my money 180.00 over invoice,the EX-L with RES works great for me!!
This discussion has been closed.