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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    "T& C has better handling than Odyssey."

    "Edmunds Review for Odyssey
    Pros:
    Agile, carlike handling, a split flat-folding rear bench, optional eight-passenger seating, extensive feature list, smooth and powerful V6, strong reliability record"

    When we talk about handling, it does not mean a smooth ride and driving only in a straight line that befit Aunty Mildred and the folks in Floridian retiree communities, unless you are from that stock. We mean agility, carlike handling, etc(like you mentioned from Edmunds) to complement the way car enthusiasts drive - like being not afraid to do corners in a spirited way in event the vehicle topples over.

    From the 70+ DGC rentals I had in the past 2 years, which included some virgin loaded T & C's with the 3.8L V6, I will concur with C & D that the "3.8L V6 is gutless and won't cut it in this crowd of MVs" in their June 2004 comparo.

    From your above quotes, you seem to have put your feet in your mouth where they may righfully belong!
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    Car like handling was introduced to minivans by Chrysler in 1991.
    T&C won Motortrend "Car of the Year" in 1991, its first for a minivan.
    Honda Odyssey was in diapers in 1991.
    JDPower compiles customer complaints and perception about Mechanical Quality for all cars and trucks. ( They are the industry bench mark )
    please visit JDPower site and also NHTSA site, they also log customer complains ( real customer complaints ) www.safecar.gov.
    Look how many customer are unhappy with 2005 Honda Odyssey Quality.
    Check for yourself.

    KBB Driving impressions of T&C,
    We drove a Town & Country with the more powerful 3.8-liter engine and were impressed by how well it worked with the four-speed automatic transmission to move the big, heavy minivan; even hill climbs and freeway merges were accomplished without exertion. Out on the highway, the Town & Country rides smoothly and quietly (16% more quietly than the 2004 model, according to Chrysler). We were also surprised at how agile the tall, multi-ton vehicle was around town and in parking lots. Braking was sure as well.
    the high-end Limited edition remains the most luxurious minivan on the road. The vehicle is roomy throughout, with the available heated leather front seats being the most comfortable.
    As minivans go, we think the Town & Country is among the more attractive on the market, especially when fitted with the bigger 16-inch wheels.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Car like handling was introduced to minivans by Chrysler in 1991.
    T&C won Motortrend "Car of the Year" in 1991, its first for a minivan.
    Honda Odyssey was in diapers in 1991.


    So your points is??.I've worked on may projects where my company was first(first semiconductor cluster tool) and then trumped by AMAT. They took what we did and made it more user friendly. 1991 was quite a long time ago in car years(usually a redisign every 5 years)I'm not saying the Honda is vastly ahead of the Chrysler just it suited my needs better.

    Here's a Performance review of both cars from the auto channel

    Honda

    Performance: I must say that for a van this vehicle performed like a race car. The pickup was more than adequate for getting in and out of fast lanes and the cornering, braking and smoothness of the ride are all better than most vans in this class. The interior was very quite both in the city and on the highway.

    Chrysler
    Our tester had the 3.8-liter V6 engine that delivered 207 horsepower. That's a fairly low number for that size engine, but it was enough for the 4,442-pound Limited version we had. We weren't overpowered, but you don't need tons of power in a van, just enough to keep you out of trouble. The engine drove the front wheels through a four-speed automatic transmission. This was a nice combination, since there's no need for performance-driven gearboxes.

    We took the T&C on our favorite test roads and the van did well. It climbed hills fine and pranced along on the straight sections. Corners were taken at sane speeds because of the tall aspect ratio of the vehicle. Vans ain't sports cars folks.

    Well one feels like a race car and the other ain't no sports car! There's plenty more where that came from too! These are reviewers opinions I happen to agree! Go test drive em both and see which one fits you the best.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    The accumulative effect of various opinions on the subjective qualities of handling, ride, and performance is meaningless if not down right silly. The argument regarding the differences between the Honda Ody and the Chrysler mini-van versions has basically become "my opinion pimp is better than your opinion pimp." On one hand we are hearing the phony decree that '...if you like your ride, that's good, too,...' and then we hear '...well, the opinions are in and Honda wins..'

    The opinions of who? People who are paid by a magazine staff to write critiques of automobiles? Who says that one persons opinion is better than another's? Because they're paid to have an opinion? The fact that someone says that such-and-such is true is highly self-absorbed. It doesn't take a degree in psychology to understand that some might be lacking in self-esteem so bad to need to pander the opinions of others on the self-righteousness of their pet material object. After all, when you spend thirty thousand dollars or more on a machine you have to convince yourself that it's better than anybody elses and that you didn't make a mistake, at which point inertia takes effect and the end justifies the means.

    Opinions, whether coming from a opinion grinder at a magazine, or Joe Blow on the street all have the same intrinsic value. Zero. Opinions are just that, the culmination of specific individual tastes which has no predictable corollary effect with anybody else values. Opinions are NOT necessarily fact, but one fact is that this discussion is totally subjective and generally meaningless...and it's getting juvenile. And, no, not by any standard is that name calling.

    At what point does the discussion become pointless?
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Opinions are NOT necessarily fact, but one fact is that this discussion is totally subjective and generally meaningless

    Well that is your opinion. There are some facts I can get you from MT

    0-60mph Dodge 10.2sec. , Honda 8.6sec.

    Braking 60-0 Dodge 136ft, Honda 123ft

    600 ft slalom Dodge 58.3 mph , Honda 59.3 mph

    Lateral acceleration Dodge .69g avg. Honda .76g avg.

    MT fuel economy Dodge 18.4 mpg Honda 19.8mpg

    At what point does the discussion become pointless?

    Whenever you feel like it is,as for me I like a good debate! I also enjoy alot of the people on this board I find it funny and entertaining! :P
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I think we are arguing much about nothing. Both vans handle and ride very nice. The Honda may have a few more problems on the 2005 than the Dodge, but that is normal for a new first year production. Just wait and see how many Dodge has in the new van they come out with.

    I also don't see much different in value on both after 5 years. The Honda is more expensive new and has a higher value used. But I see that difference, according to the paper selling them used, to be only from $2,000.00-$4,000.00.Not the $6-8,000 some has said it to be.

    I guess it all depends on how much you want to spend initially. Price could make a big difference in what you buy, if not, it's either looks or what your going to use your van for that will determine what you get.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    That's about dead on! Looks, price, features, and how your gonna use it!
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I had a 1993 Eagle Vision 3.3 V-6 for 11 years. I believe that transmission is the very same as the 41TE, in the Intrepid, since they were sister cars, with basicly different grill and tail lights. I traded it in last year on our 2004 Civic.

    The only problem I had with that tranny was about three years ago when I had the tranny fluid and filter changed at a name brand tire company store. About 4-5 days later, the tranny started shifting funny. I took it to a transmission shop and told them I had the fluid and filter changed about a week ago. The guy asked me what kind of fluid was put in it and I told him I didn't know. He called up the store and found out they used Dexron-Mercon ATF. The tranny shop drained the fluid out and put on another filter, refilled it with the right stuff and I never had anymore trouble after that. That car gave me very good service for 11 years.

    I have to wonder though, if that transmission shop hadn't been honest, and charged me for a rebuilt. How many people do you think may have been ripped off for bad trannies because of fluid or reprogram of the computer?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Well that is your opinion. There are some facts I can get you from MT

    Hey!!! Lets be very selective with our sources and pick just MT for data, it'll make Honda look sooo much more superior.

    We've been thru this how many times??? I feel CR is good for their test data only, not their writeups. They have DCX/Oddy a lot closer in all those numbers...it's splitting hairs. What's surprising is all the new tech doesn't really help Honda that greatly, sure they have more HP but it's at such a high rev line. Just like VCM....based on readings on this board, autoweek TV etc...the gas mileage is dismal considering all the hype.

    Hey, and lets not forget my favorite number - THREE!!! As in the total number of recalls for Honda's vastly superior Oddy. The Oddy people like to counter that it only effects a tiny part of the buyers etc..... Whateva!

    Another great number - $800! The amount it'll cost to repair your AC condenser on an Oddy due to poor design. Of course you can buy a Mr. Grill for $100 to prevent that...no big deal!!!

    And my newest one 600!!!.....Honda is giving away free engines!!! Especially if your's happens to fail after 600 miles!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Hey!!! Lets be very selective with our sources and pick just MT for data, it'll make Honda look sooo much more superior.

    Nice to see your back from camping. I'm sorry it was the quickest one I could find! So now CR is right I'm sure if the data was different you would say it isn't!

    Hey, and lets not forget my favorite number - THREE!!! As in the total number of recalls for Honda's vastly superior Oddy. The Oddy people like to counter that it only effects a tiny part of the buyers etc..... Whateva!

    Another great number - $800! The amount it'll cost to repair your AC condenser on an Oddy due to poor design. Of course you can buy a Mr. Grill for $100 to prevent that...no big deal!!!

    And my newest one 600!!!.....Honda is giving away free engines!!! Especially if your's happens to fail after 600 miles!!


    Yeah I see what you mean the Dodge people are so civil! This is why I post on this board!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Yeah I see what you mean the Dodge people are so civil! This is why I post on this board!!

    I happen to know so of these "so call" MT/Car & Driver people and their testing methods vary widely...equipment, conditions etc... CR is a more controlled "test".

    I'm just happy to add more information to your post socalawd, things you might have forgotten.

    Just a quick camping trip to the northerns of Michigan. Minivan performed flawlessly....only 18 MPG though, but still towing an RV and loaded, averaging 70 mph
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Here are some videos of "slow" minivans.http://www.turbominivan.com/videos.htm
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Honda guys, give it up!!!!!

    To end this once and for all....

    What was the only minivan still running after the Alien invasion in "War of the Worlds"..... a DODGE!!!! Not a Honda, Not a Toyota. I bet the Dodge would probably survive Gozilla eating it too!!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    WRONG!

    Try the VW Microbus back in 1950's and '60 that hippies/flower people made out in.
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    My '05 T&C Touring model has a maintenance reminder....for what its worth!!!
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    Quite a few posts have been removed because they are off-topic, disrespectful, and disruptive to the discussion. Members come to this topic to read about differences in these vehicles so that they can make purchase decisions -- not to read about YOU. Stick to the topic or your posts will be removed.

    I let the leasing/resale discussion go on for a bit because these issues can have an impact on purchasing decisions, but it seems to have derailed the topic. If you'd like to continue discussing these issues, please take them to the Smart Shopper Forum, where they belong. Otherwise, they'll be deleted.

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    How does 250 lb-ft torque @ 3800 RPM of DC 3.5L compare with 250 lb-ft at a much higher 5000 RPM of the Ody 3.5L?....or the 250 HP of DC @ 6400 RPM vs 255 HP of Ody at a lower 5750 RPM? :blush:
    If DC minivans had the 5 speed Autostick Transmission used in both the Charger and 300C, the Ody performance advantage would disappear. ;)
    The Sienna with 242 lb-ft torque @ 3600 RPM gave it a very distinct performance advantage when I test drove the Sienna and Ody. BOTH had much greater performance than my 02 T&C 3.3L with only 210 lb-ft and an old fashioned 4 speed Automatic.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    WRONG!

    Try the VW Microbus back in 1950's and '60 that hippies/flower people made out in.


    WRONG HOW?? Did you see the Movie??? It sure wasn't a VW!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    The minivans of today are a reincarnation of the VW Microbus of yesteryears!
    Yes the VW was there in spirit form. :)
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    How does 250 lb-ft torque 3800 RPM of DC 3.5L compare with 250 lb-ft at a much higher 5000 RPM of the Ody 3.5L?....or the 250 HP of DC 6400 RPM vs 255 HP of Ody at a lower 5750 RPM?
    If DC minivans had the 5 speed Autostick Transmission used in both the Charger and 300C, the Ody performance advantage would disappear


    It's always nice to dream. It would cost more money to build too! Hey if dodge puts a hemi in with a sports stick, count me in for 2015 when I'll buy my next new car!! They can call it the Dodge Grand Caravan R/T!!
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    2005 Odyssey releases 20.8 - 25.0 Pounds smog-forming pollution per 15000 miles against 12.3 - 12.9 Pounds for Chrysler T&C.
    You can check this fact in Edmunds, www.honda.com or www.chrysler.com.

    Should an environmentally and socially responsible consumer purchase a Honda (Import) when there is a better performing and safe domestic alternative?

    Should consumers be socially responsible?

    2005 Chrysler T&C Touring and Honda Odyssey some key facts.

    2005 T&C 2005 Odyssey
    Safety
    ********
    NHTSA
    Crash test
    Front *************5 Stars 5 Stars
    Side**************5 Stars 5 Stars ( with a safety concern, Door popped out )
    IIHS**************Not tested Good

    Quality
    **********
    JDPower
    Initial****************2 Stars 4 Stars
    Longterm***********3 Stars 3 Stars

    Warranty************3/36K 7/70K

    Price
    *********
    Edmunds
    TMV **************26K 24K

    Resale
    Value
    ******
    ALG
    5 Year
    Lost
    Value***************17K 14K

    They both handle very well , Honda has VSA and Chrysler does not.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Of course, you realize the A580 transmission used behind the Charger/Magnum/300 Hemi is almost three times heavier than most FWD transmissions.

    Actually, in the near future Chrysler will be introducing a new FWD transmission that will be more than competitive, especially in their mini-vans.

    Dusty
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Please provide more information before I defect to the Odyssey or Sienna. :P
    The content of DC minivans was more important to me than the higher performance of the Odyssey or Sienna...BUT, with DC deleting nice features while Honda and Toyota are adding nice features, it makes the choice of a DC minivan less appealing. :cry:
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I can tell you that it will be based on the very successful 545RFE, have three full planetary gear sets and more than five speeds.

    Not sure when you're going to be in the market, but I don't think their new transmission will be available until '07.

    Dusty
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Thanks. Are those specifications similar to the new Mercedes 7 speed AT? ;)
    How many planetary gear sets do the current DC minivan 4 speed AT have? What about the Odyssey and Sienna?

    Since the 2005 DC minivans with Stow-N Go were released late January or early February 2004, can we expect the new 2007 DC minivan availability in about 6 months? :confuse:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    2005 Odyssey releases 20.8 - 25.0 Pounds smog-forming pollution per 15000 miles against 12.3 - 12.9 Pounds for Chrysler T&C.
    You can check this fact in Edmunds, www.honda.com or www.chrysler.com.

    Should an environmentally and socially responsible consumer purchase a Honda (Import) when there is a better performing and safe domestic alternative?

    Should consumers be socially responsible? 2005 Odyssey releases 20.8 - 25.0 Pounds smog-forming pollution per 15000 miles against 12.3 - 12.9 Pounds for Chrysler T&C.
    You can check this fact in Edmunds, www.honda.com or www.chrysler.com.

    Should an environmentally and socially responsible consumer purchase a Honda (Import) when there is a better performing and safe domestic alternative?

    Should consumers be socially responsible?


    Please look at green vehicle guide
    link title

    Honda is the one on top(best rated). Then go look at the Dodge 3.8L and the 2.4l.

    Also the honda is built in Alabama. The Dodge is mostly built in Windsor Canada with some built is St. Loius. Honda is a japanese company. DCX is a german owned company! Actually they are both public companies so I'm not sure who owns them LOL. Car companies have truely gone global.

    IIHS**************Not tested Good


    Dodge scored Marginal in 2001 the car has not been totally redone. The tested it 3 times to get it that high. The first time they tested it the fuel tank leaked at the neck(That was a early 2001 model) They fixed it(nofix for my early model) and retested. Until they retest I'm go with the old score!

    Warranty************3/36K 7/70K

    Only 7/70K on powertrain. 3/36/bumper to bumper like the honda! 2006 will be just like the honda.

    ALG
    5 Year
    Lost
    Value***************17K 14K


    These numbers are cooked! Many factors are involved! So you can make it look like you want!

    They both handle very well , Honda has VSA and Chrysler does not.

    They have different handling styles(can I say that)or is it just opinion. Test drive them both is the best way. Take a nice long one too and try to go over the same area's. In some auto parks you can test drive em back to back on the same roads.
    And Honda has standard side airbags for with head protection for all rows. The dodge has a kneeblocker airbag standard on LWB models. Enjoy!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    REMEMBER the 2005 Odyssey door flew open in one crash test. :sick:
    Just shows that no vehicle is yet perfect. ;)
    I think DC is stupid if they change the powertrain warranty to 3/36,000 as with the rest of the vehicle and also with the Odyssey. :sick:
    The Sienna has a 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty and the Sedona has a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. The Sienna has always been perceived to be one of the most reliable vehicles and the Sedona is earning a good reputation. :shades:
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    The Dodge warranty also has a $100 deductible. But it's on the record, the 7/70 is gone after 2005. I've used it once on my '03 Ram 3500 for u-joints. It may or may-not be a selling point. I won't keep a minivan long enough to need anything more than the 3/36. It didn't effect my truck purchase, as I was buying the Dodge regardless. I imagine it helps DC in the cars/vans which the general public perceives as having faulty transmissions. The Hondas have had tranny issues as well, but with Honda publicly offering warranty repairs to high miles (was it 90k?) the public perception has been better. I don't think folks have a problem if a tranny is defective and grenades at 70k miles if the manufacturer stands behind it. I have a nephew that I've personally helped pay to fix his Neon transmission twice now . Not acceptable on a car with less than 70k miles. $2,000 put into a car worth maybe $4500 on a really good day....

    Back when my family owned a Dodge dealership, we could get warranty to cover repairs sometimes into the 100k mile range. I don't know if the dealers are just more greedy now (we'd have to eat some labor cost) or what, but I couldn't get any of the local dealers to even consider fixing his transmission, the first time at 50k miles. I remember our service manager getting a factory reman transmission for a lady's Caravan at 100k miles. We even made a little money on the deal. Today, the dealers just say $3500 please!
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    socalawd; I am not saying you should be socially responsible, Honda brand may be green but not Odyssey.
    Chrysler is a US automaker, no matter how much you wanna argue.
    They create more US jobs than Honda.
    They contribute more to US ecomony then Honda.
    They are socially more responsible than Honda ( they are many social programs to help fight AIDS and disasters )
    They share profits with their US workers
    They have much bigger supply base in US than Honda, they supply base creates jobs in turn.
    Most of their vehicles are built in NAFTA ( CAN AND US , you cannot differentiate )

    Buying a import is not socially responsible and is not patriotic.

    2005 Chrysler Minivan is totally redesiged.
    2005 Honda Odyssey has more recalls then 2005 T&C, check NHTSA website.
    2005 Honda odyssey has more customer compaints as a percentage of sales than Chrysler.
    Honda never invented anything original, they always copy ( imposters )
    Chrysler created the first 4X4 (Jeep ) , first Minivan, first rear wheel drive, their are 15 minivan first including dual sliding door.

    US is loosing competitive edge in the world market, because consumers are not socially responsible . buying all Chinese made products.

    Sorry to be so, blut, I do not mean to pick up a fight with you. Really bothered by the loss of so many US manufacturing jobs.

    I do not own a dealership and I am not trying to sell anything.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    2005 Odyssey releases 20.8 - 25.0 Pounds smog-forming pollution per 15000 miles against 12.3 - 12.9 Pounds for Chrysler T&C.
    You can check this fact in Edmunds, www.honda.com or www.chrysler.com.


    I see that Edmunds lists the numbers you're quoting. They don't list their source which could be helpful! The reason I have a problem with that is that they're not the same as the EPA's ratings for these vehicles. At this link EPA RATINGS you'll see the Odyssey as having the best rating for both CARB and non-CARB vehicles. Similar ratings as the Chrysler 3.3L, significantly worse than the 3.8L.
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