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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    Just for clarification: the 2005 T&C is NOT totally redesigned. The front headlights have been changed slightly!!! The new "totally" redesigned T&C won't be until 2007.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    socalawd; I am not saying you should be socially responsible, Honda brand may be green but not Odyssey

    They are the top rated minivan. The EXL+ model I gave the link above.

    Chrysler is a US automaker, no matter how much you wanna argue.

    I have a hard time figuring out who's who. Here's a interesting article about who owns who.

    BMW owns:
    -BMW
    -Mini
    -Rolls Royce

    Daimler/Chrysler owns:
    -AMC (brand discontinued -- Chrysler bought AMC primarily for the Jeep brand which was owned by AMC)
    -Chrysler
    -Dodge
    -Eagle (brand discontinued)
    -Hyundai (Daimler/Chrysler only owns 10% --13 May 04 changes!)
    -Jeep
    -Maybach
    -Mercedes-Benz
    -Mitsubishi (Daimler/Chrysler owns 37%)
    -Plymouth (brand discontinued)
    -Smart

    Fiat owns:
    -Alfa Romeo
    -Ferrari
    -Fiat
    -Lancia
    -Maserati

    Ford owns:
    -Aston Martin
    -Ford
    -Jaguar
    -Land Rover (bought from BMW)
    -Lincoln
    -Mazda (Ford owns 33% of Mazda)
    -Mercury
    -Volvo cars

    Fuji Heavy Industries owns:
    -Subaru

    General Motors owns:
    -Buick
    -Cadillac
    -Chevrolet
    -Daewoo (GM owns 44%)
    -Fiat (GM owns ~20%) (GM has decided to divorce itself from Fiat as of Feb '05)
    -Fuji Heavy Industries (GM owns ~20%)
    -GMC
    -Holden
    -Hummer
    -Isuzu (GM only owns a percentage)
    -Oldsmobile (brand discontinued)
    -Opel
    -Pontiac
    -Saab
    -Saturn
    -Subaru (GM owns 20%)
    -Suzuki (GM only owns a small percentage)
    -Vauxhall

    Honda owns:
    -Acura
    -Honda

    Hyundai owns:
    -Hyundai
    -Kia

    Nissan owns:
    -Infiniti
    -Nissan
    -Renault (Nissan owns 15%)

    PSA Peugeot Citroen owns:
    -Citroen
    -Peugeot

    Porsche is an independent company (they do work very closely with VW, however)

    Renault owns:
    -Nissan (Renault owns 44%)

    Toyota owns:
    -Daihatsu (~51%)
    -Lexus
    -Scion
    -Toyota

    Volkswagen owns:
    -Audi
    -Bentley
    -Bugatti
    -Lamborghini
    -SEAT
    -Skoda
    -Volkswagen

    They create more US jobs than Honda.
    They contribute more to US ecomony then Honda.
    They are socially more responsible than Honda ( they are many social programs to help fight AIDS and disasters )
    They share profits with their US workers
    They have much bigger supply base in US than Honda, they supply base creates jobs in turn.
    Most of their vehicles are built in NAFTA ( CAN AND US , you cannot differentiate )

    Buying a import is not socially responsible and is not patriotic.


    A source I looked at says that chrysler built 7.1% of the cars in North America and Honda was 7.2%. Now add in dodge and it's a different story. So you think NAFTA is a good deal. Last time I looked I was an American not a Canadian or a Mexician. Please don't question how patriotic I am! Heck, i don't even shop at WalMart!!

    2005 Chrysler Minivan is totally redesiged

    It was a update!

    Chrysler created the first 4X4 (Jeep )

    No AMC the last of the independants! They didn't invent just bought! I was sorry to see it go. I owned a 1975 Hornet in college. The AM radio was the best loved the one speaker in the dash.

    Honda never invented anything original, they always copy ( imposters )

    I can't even reply to this kind of remark! But can't let it go ethier!

    2005 Honda odyssey has more customer compaints as a percentage of sales than Chrysler.

    Ok give me the data. Not just see this post thing!

    US is loosing competitive edge in the world market, because consumers are not socially responsible . buying all Chinese made products

    US is loosing edge because it gave too much to the unions. This gives them less money to build and update the cars. I didn't buy a chinese car. I try and buy americian when I can if it makes sense. Just bought a AMANA refrigerator(The LG was cheaper but). After all we are a free market society! If you build a better mouse trap!
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    You're like 3 generations behind now!!!! Get an iPod and get into the 21st century!!! I love mine, and play it thru my FM via iTrip "

    Dennis, you need to catch up a little too. :P You should feed the iPod into your stereo thru the RCA inputs with a little adapter from Radio Shack. The Honda has them into the stereo, right?

    I had an FM transmitter for my MP3 player, and now a direct AUX input. Night and Day
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I know BMWs from 2002 MY on has the ability to iPod via a connection on back of radio.

    iTrip is ideal for me.....I take it from cars, to house, to RV etc....

    iPod is like TIVO - you wonder how you ever got along without it!
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    Yep, they are 2 of the biggest technology innovations in a long time.

    I would just recommend, if you DO have the RCA inputs (my T&C has it right on the DVD changer plate) - it's well worth it to get the stuff for less than $10 at Radio Shack for a direct connection
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Chrysler created the first 4X4 (Jeep )

    "No AMC the last of the independents! They didn't invent just bought! I was sorry to see it go. I owned a 1975 Hornet in college. The AM radio was the best loved the one speaker in the dash."

    As officially adopted by the U.S. Army, the Jeep was the design of the Willys-Overland Corporation at the onset of World War II, although American Bantam was the first submitter of what we know as the "jeep" concept. Kaiser Motors obtained Willys-Overland in 1953, and hence the Jeep name and manufacturing. AMC (formerly Nash) acquired the Jeep when they purchased Kaiser in 1960. For the record, Ford made the majority of the wartime Jeeps. Willys failed to get the Jeep contract and instead built a small trailer for the Jeep. After the end of the war Willys made Jeeps again. It's also a little hard to refer to AMC as the last of the independents, being the grand child of Nash, Willys-Overland, Studebaker, and then finally being owned by Renault.

    Dusty
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    There WAS a major re-design of the T&C and most Grand Caravan for 2005 with the additon of Stow 'N Go. True, the entire vehicle was not re-designed, but why change the most attractive minivan design?
    True, it was not a complete re-design, but to say only the headlights were changed slightly is as irresponsible as the written portion of CR vehicle tests.
    BTW, doesn't the 2005 Honda Odyssey use the same transmission and engine in the LX and EX (cloth) that were used in the 2004 Odyssey? Does that imply that the 2005 Odyssey was not redesigned? :confuse:
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    The EPA rating is a "score" that includes a weighted average of Air Pollution Score, the Greenhouse Gas Score, and Fuel Economy estimates. When the three values are combined the total Environmental score is derived. These "scores" are not accurate for determining air pollution, greenhouse gas, or fuel economy estimates.

    The pollution values listed by Edmunds are actual measured values at the time the vehicle was federally certified. So in this case the Chrysler T&C does produce less actual pollutants than the Honda.

    Dusty
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Actually, every body panel on the new Caravan and T&C is different than its predecessors, including all measuring points of the vehicle undercarriage. Internal body structure is also different as a result of a significantly more rigid platform. Body stiffness was increased approximately 40% over the previous version. After determining through various research that the Chrysler versions were the most identified mini-vans and received the highest scores for appearance, there was a serious intention not to change the exterior appearance significantly.

    Whether this defines "total redesign" is arguable.

    Dusty
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Also.....the entire IP was redesigned to only a single cluster instead of the previous design that had a sweeping row of idiot lights above the gauges, also new seating of course, better integrated electronics, new HVAC venting. It may not look radically new, but much of the structure is. They should have done more with powertrain though
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    The EPA rating is a "score" that includes a weighted average of Air Pollution Score, the Greenhouse Gas Score, and Fuel Economy estimates.

    That is true, but you can see each score individually. The Air Pollution Score is based on the output of air-pollution (NOx, NMOG, CO, PM, HCHO) and the Ody is ahead in Air Pollution score over any of the Dodge engines.

    Can anyone provide the source (a link would be nice) showing these actual pollutant numbers? Besides Edmunds (no offense, but I doubt they're the government source.....)
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Perhaps they should've done more in the power train, but in all honesty...despite complaints from some...both V6 motors are better than good and more than equal to competitors power plants of 10 years ago. Chrysler has a long conservative history when it comes to engines. The "LA" series of V8s (273, 318, 340, 360)were the longest serving engines in North America and they performed admirably for all the years they were in production, although the 318 and 360 were upgraded quite a bit in the 1980s (Magnum versions).

    The current V6s still have some life on them, and although being characterized as "less refined" than Asian designs, they perform well and still an adequate motor for a mini-van. When you're spending 170 million to revamp the mini-van platform, another 200 million for a new engine design, which by the way takes a lot longer to develop correctly than a vehicle platform, the money dictates what you're going to do.

    I suspect that Chrysler is working on another joint venture motor series with Mitzi as we speak.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    This all seems like a midlife update to me. Thats what I've sen from anyone else says, I didn't even see DCX say it was a redesign!

    What's New for 2005
    The Town & Country gets revised styling, a handful of new features, a much lower base price and -- oh yeah, the Stow 'n Go fold-flat second- and third-row seating system.

    See revised. I Rest my case!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    As officially adopted by the U.S. Army, the Jeep was the design of the Willys-Overland Corporation at the onset of World War II, although American Bantam was the first submitter of what we know as the "jeep" concept. Kaiser Motors obtained Willys-Overland in 1953, and hence the Jeep name and manufacturing. AMC (formerly Nash) acquired the Jeep when they purchased Kaiser in 1960. For the record, Ford made the majority of the wartime Jeeps. Willys failed to get the Jeep contract and instead built a small trailer for the Jeep. After the end of the war Willys made Jeeps again. It's also a little hard to refer to AMC as the last of the independents, being the grand child of Nash, Willys-Overland, Studebaker, and then finally being owned by Renault.

    Yeah I watched a show on the discovery channel about it. I wasn't thinking, at least hari was wrong. American Bantam played by the rules(I think it was engine size and wieght) and got pounded by Willy. Once the goverment saw the willy they were like what criteria!!
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    Let's not talk anymore about who owns whom, who designed what, or who's causing job losses -- those topics are better suited to the News & Views Forum. Please stick to the topic, which is a comparison between the Odyssey and Dodge/Chrysler minivans.

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    "True, it was not a complete re-design, but to say only the headlights were changed slightly is as irresponsible as the written portion of CR vehicle tests"

    READ my post again...I never said the headlights were the ONLY change made to the 2005. It was just an example of the slight redesign, not a TOTAL redesign!!!
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    now, let's go ask terry what a 02 T&C and a 02 ody can bring in.... :D
  • autowriteautowrite Posts: 225
    :confuse: This message is also posted at Odyssey Problems
    This question includes the Odyssey 1999 to 2004 but includes all other vechicles in this time range.
    I would like to know how many transmission failures that have been recorded for all makes of vechicles (1999 - 2004) where the number was substantial?
    The postees in Edmunds jump all over the Odyssey but what about the Tord Windstar, Chrevrolet 'NOX, Sienna, BMW, Dodge Caravan, etc.
    Thanks for your help.
    ps: Some people in the industries could have this info.
  • autowriteautowrite Posts: 225
    This message is also posted at Odyssey Problems
    This question includes the Odyssey 1999 to 2004 but includes all other vechicles in this time range.
    I would like to know how many transmission failures that have been recorded for all makes of vechicles (1999 - 2004) where the number was substantial?
    The postees in Edmunds jump all over the Odyssey but what about the Tord Windstar, Chrevrolet 'NOX, Sienna, BMW, Dodge Caravan, etc.
    Thanks for your help.
    ps: Some people in the industries could have this info.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    A warning has already beem posted about off-topic and disruptive posts. We already have other Forums where you can continue discussing these issues:

    Smart Shopper Forum, where you can talk about resale values, leasing, and choosing the right car for you.
    Prices Paid & Buying Experience Forum, where you can find out about the deals other members have gotten.

    Any further disruptive posts will be removed.

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Better yet, just look at Edmunds Used Car Pricing or some of the others available online. ;) .... and then remember, all used car numbers are just rough estimates. :blush:
  • tomp19tomp19 Posts: 2
    I'm looking to purchase either an '05 Grand Caravan SXT w/ Leather or an '05 Honda Ody. EX-L.

    It seems like the 2 are very similar, which is making the decision very difficult.

    The key issue that I have is safety for the kids (3 and 4 years old).

    When test driving the Grand Caravan, I noticed that the seat belt, in the third row, didn't snuggly fit accross my 4 year old's chest when sitting in a booster seat. It seemed like the connector on the side of the van was too far forward so that there was actually a small gap between his chest and the seat belt.

    Has anyone else seen / noticed this problem? I didn't see any way to adjust the belt to make it fit better. This may be a show stopper for the Caravan.

    Also, I couldn't find any information on the side air bags on the GC as far as do they have rollover sensors? Honda specifically lists that they have this feature, but the the GC doesn't seem to address the issue.

    I guess I'm just looking for a reason to support my purchase. The incentives to buy the Grand Caravan are pretty high this week, but ultimately, I can't do it if the Honda is a safer van to drive.

    Overall, I'm surprised at what I've found so far. The vehicles are very comparable. I even liked the handling on the Grand Caravan a little better, which shocked me based on everything that I've read ahead of time.

    Thanks for any input / feedback.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Based on safety tests here: Caravan Test and here Odyssey Test it would be a stretch to say the Dodge was safer than the Honda.

    Then there's the govt. tests: caravan test ody test

    They both received 5-stars and generally the Ody had better actual tests scores. The only issue with the Ody was the driver door unlatching/opening during the side impact test. Doesn't effect the rating but could under the right situation cause a problem. I have a feeling Honda is working on this as there's been rumored a recall coming that effects all '05 models. Nobody will say what the problem is yet as it's an internal recall by Honda with no NHTSA involvement. Even with the door issues, the Ody had very good injury ratings, with the Head Injury Criterion being significantly lower than the Caravans.

    In addition, the Ody has stability control which is not offered on the Caravan. Just a look at rollover deaths/injuries between vehicles equipped and not-equipped with stability control should tell you it's an important feature. A good article here concerning stability control IIHS Article

    A tidbit from the article on stability equipped vehicles: "NHTSA reported a 35 percent reduction in single-vehicle crash risk for cars and a 67 percent reduction for SUVs. Fatal single-vehicle crashes were reduced about 30 percent (cars) and 63 percent (SUVs)." Most vans are between cars/suvs in terms of rollover potential, so you could say there's a 50% reduction with stability control on minivans. Significant in my book.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    GC SXT would be much safer since the Ody handles like a sports car and you would be too tempted to drive it irresponsibly.
    We who own DC minivans realize they are NOT sports cars and drive them within their known handling limits. ;)
    The leather in the Ody is much nicer than the leather in a GC SXT although it will cost you $5,000 or $6,000 more for the Ody because Honda discounts are much less than DaimlerChrysler and Honda does not give the Employee Discount like DaimlerChrysler and other manufacturers. :cry:
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    so now the ody has a clear margin over the GC in the handling department? It's never the car, it's the person behind the wheel.

    If it were not for the vsc (I've experienced it a few times while driving another car and I live in the snowy NE), I would be very tempted to look for a USED SXT.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I would be very tempted to look for a USED SXT.

    Yes, used is an excellent way to buy one. Looks like you can save about $4,000 on an '05 SXT with 10k miles if you snag one off of ebay. And that's off of todays employee pricing! If I didn't have to have the latest/greatest new thing and just needed a minivan....that would be the way to go.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Posts: 421
    When test driving the Grand Caravan, I noticed that the seat belt, in the third row, didn't snuggly fit accross my 4 year old's chest when sitting in a booster seat. It seemed like the connector on the side of the van was too far forward so that there was actually a small gap between his chest and the seat belt.

    For the age of your kids, they should be setting in the second row and not the third row for safety. Did you try the second row seats too? As for the 05 Dodge side curtain air bags, they do not have rollover sensors like the 05 Ody. Nor does it have the VSC like the Ody. One thing that the 05 Dodge has, and not the 05 Ody., that would probably be used more often then not, when you have kids, is the battery protection feature. What this feature does is protect the battery from being drained from an unexpected interior light being left on or if one of the doors wasn't closed all the way. Another safety feature that I like on the Dodge is the power door sensors. It only takes 2lbs of pressure to have the doors/liftgate to reverse if it encounters an object. Also, there are pinch sensors on both sides of the rear liftgate. The power doors on the Dodge are easier to open and close when you don't use the power feature. :shades:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Also, I couldn't find any information on the side air bags on the GC as far as do they have rollover sensors? Honda specifically lists that they have this feature, but the the GC doesn't seem to address the issue.

    Honda has standard side airbags with roll over protection/Dodge is optional and no rollover protection. Honda has VSA which is in my book a must have option for the safety feature for those of us who are obsessed with safety. The IIHS article is only a small study but if you can get 20% of what they think they can get I don't know what that's worth!

    I guess I'm just looking for a reason to support my purchase. The incentives to buy the Grand Caravan are pretty high this week, but ultimately, I can't do it if the Honda is a safer van to drive.

    Overall, I'm surprised at what I've found so far. The vehicles are very comparable. I even liked the handling on the Grand Caravan a little better, which shocked me based on everything that I've read ahead of time.


    The Caravan has softer feel the Odyssey has a little more feedback from the tighter suspention. The GC equally equipted should be about 3 grand less. I really like the interior of my Odyssey! I have the EX-L with RES the kids love it!! As for the handling it scored well(above average, the DGC scored average) in accident aviodance from CR. The best way not to get hurt in a accident is not to get into one. Have a great day. These kinds of decisions can be rough. Ethier way a minivan is one of the safest and most enjoyable(space and comfort)ways for a family to get around!
  • tomp19tomp19 Posts: 2
    Thanks for all the feedback. We're leaning heavily towards the GC, even though I feel that the Honda is maybe a tad safer. My wife really prefers the features on the Caravan and she'll be the primary driver. I'll be honest with you guys...when taking several test drives, it didn't feel like I'd be avoiding a whole lot of accidents in either van as I'm used to driving a 2 door sports car :D

    What I'm really finding in all this is that I should have bought my family a minivan about 4 years ago as they're one of the safer things on the road.

    I'll post our final decision soon as I suspect that I'll buy something before the end of the weekend!
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I am sure you might find the Honda a tad more safer than the Dodge, although minivans on a whole are pretty safe vehicles. If getting the safest van on the road is your top priority, buy the Honda. If safety is a concern, plus the convenience of having a minivan that has lots of room, gobs of storage and seats that you can stow so your ready to haul anything that comes up, than consider the Dodge. It just means what is more important to you and how you want to use your van. Only you can decide that. No one knows your mind.
This discussion has been closed.