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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
My 2006 Sienna LE driver seat and front passengers seats are just as comfortable as those in the 2006 Odyssey EX (cloth).
The Odyssey has very comfortable seating for 7 passengers and the + 1 seat in the middle row is more comfortable than the back seat of almost any new sedan.
Sienna seating is almost as comfortable in the 2nd and 3rd row as the Odyssey and all 7 seats of the GC/T&C are not quite as comfortable for me as the 7 seats in the Sienna or Odyssey.
However, with the nice discounts, the 2006 GC SXT provides the MOST for the least money when compared with the Sienna LE or Odyssey EX (cloth). I regret my purchase of the Sienna LE since I could have purchased a NEW 2006 GC SXT now for about $ 4,000 less than my 2006 Sienna and about $ 6,000 less than the local Odyssey dealers charge for the 2006 Ody EX (cloth).
I am 6'4" tall and usually drive our 2006 Odyssey EX-L. My wife was driving one day recently so I decided to sit in the back seats because there is more room than in the front passenger seat. I did not really like the middle seat on the passenger side because there is a storage box under the front passenger seat which limits the leg room a little. The seat behind the driver is fine. Also, the rear seats are just fine. On an extended trip as a passenger I would probably sit behind the driver or in the very back. The middle captains chairs in the Odyssey are quite wide as evidenced by the narrow third middle seat. The very rear seats have a nice padded arm area on each side so that you have at least one "arm rest" On our EX-L all the side areas are covered in leather which is very nice. My kids think that our Odyssey is more comfortable to travel in than the Suburban that it replaced. The Oddy gets almost twice the mileage and drives shall I say a little differently.
Maybe Kia can use that slogan in a new ad campaign?
"The Kia Sedona...jerk it till your eyes pop out...our seatbelts pass the test every time" :sick:
"Our back seats might not pass the jerk test...but will other 2nd row seats fold into the floor?"
or
"Our back seats may not pass the jerk test...but it takes one to try one?" :shades:
First off, I wanted to wait for vehicle but was informed by service babe
Well here's the interesting part. They also performed a TBS on the van! They placed a shield over the AC condenser, so Honda's not the only one with this issue. The service advisor said there's been changes in the wall construction of the condensers making them very easy to damage via stones etc...
This was our second service and came at 11,700 miles. First oil/filter change and inspections was $24 back home at around 6k miles. So far, this thing has been extremely cheap to operate. Cheaper than my domestics. Much cheaer than my wifes GX470 service. She recently was in for the standard oil change/inspections and it ran $160 including rotating/rebalancing the tires. I guess the "luxury customer lounge" and "complimentary" car wash have to be paid for somehow!
BTW, I put $5 worth of screen acrossed my condensor and upper radiator shortly after buying the Ody. It's basically invisible and catches leaves and such rather well, if nothing else. I've noticed very few bugs in my radiator fins as well.
Tire rotations I do myself in the driveway. Even if they are free like for buying a set of tires, any place I've been to has an hour wait unless you are the first person there when they open. I can do it in 30 minutes including cleanup.
My wife has a 2005 Pacifica which she just took in to Spokane Chrysler for an oil change, tire rotate and balance and had a rattling trim piece fixed under warranty.
I provide the oil (Mobil 1), but they still only charged $32. It is tough to get your tires rotated and balanced for that most places.
Hard to [non-permissible content removed] about $53, when Jiffy lube would charge as much and not rotate tires.
- We test drove a T&C Touring model which had package 28S (leather, power doors and liftgate, DVD entertainment system, supplemental side airbags, hands free cellphone (bluetooth), etc). The van was loaded with the 3.8L engine as well.
- First of all, having just driven the Sienna XLE and Odyssey EX-L we were impressed with the options that came on this van (especially considering that the van could be had for about 28K out the door). We were also surprised (having just driven a rental Dodge Grand Caravan the month before) how much quieter and more powerful (the rental had the 3.3L engine) the T&C was. The van handled well, and had adequate power for most tasks. I felt that it definitely lagged the performance of the Sienna and the Odyssey especially at passing speeds. The engine was also the loudest of the three. Overall, I felt the Odyssey had much greater passing power, was more quiet, and handled better than the T&C. But, I want to emphasize that the T&C was more than adequate for most people. This is my first minivan and it is replacing a 2002 Nissan Altima SE. In other words, it was important that my first van be fun to drive and have adequate acceleration, passing power, and handling.
- Interior. I liked the layout (seats) of the T&C and loved the rear power liftgate. The T&C van (for the money) clearly had more features than a comparably priced Odyssey EX-L and Sienna XLE. Actually, the T&C was about 1K cheaper than the Odyssey EX-L and almost 2K cheaper than the Sienna XLE w leather. However, both the Sienna and Odyssey used better materials, and I found the dashboard layout of the T&C to be cluttered and cheap looking and feeling. I also found the 7" DVD screen to be a little on the small side. The leather was nice, but not as comfortable or plush as the Toyota or Honda leather. I also felt that the stow&go seats were a little uncomfotable (especially for a long trip for an adult). The stow&go concept was very cool, and we loved the extra storage. This is a plus for the DCX vans, but I feel it comes at the expense of the comfort of the seats.
- Exterior. I liked the front of the T&C, but did not like the rounded rear to that of the Honda and Toyota. But clearly these are all minivans and none really had a large advantage to exterior styling.
- Reliability. I was a little worried about reliability with the DCX vans after looking through Consumer Reports ratings and having some family and friends that have had issues with these vans. Every manufacturer has their share of lemons, but having owned a very problamatic 1999 VW Jetta, I did not want to have a vehicle which constantly needed to go to the shop. I picked the Honda (although I felt the Toyota was an equally safe bet).
- Resale. This was another area of concern for me. Although I plan on keeping the van for 5-7 years (possibly more), I did not like the thought of buying a van that depreciates as fast as the DCX vans do. This may not be as big an issue for some people, but after looking at used minivan prices, I was shocked at how well the Honda held its value. Even the previous generation Odysseys with low miles are only about 2-4K cheaper than the newer Odysseys.
- Safety. I felt that all three vans were safer than my 02 Altima, but that overall, the Honda was the safest of the three. I really liked the idea of stability control which the DCX vans do not offer.
So, my take was that overall, the Honda was a better van with regards to fit and finish, performance/handling, comfort, resale, reliability, and safety. However, the DCX vans clearly give you the most features for the money and are nice vans. I can see where DCX owners are very happy with their vans (especially if they keep them for 7 years or more). At the end of the day I was very happy that I drove all three vans and made the decision that made sense for my family. BTW, I used to be somewhat anti-Honda and this is my first Honda vehicle. I just mentioned this so others that felt the same way would give the Odyssey a chance.
We were looking at the lower price range of GC SXT, Sienna LE, and Ody EX (cloth) where the Ody was the highest priced and GC SXT was lowest priced (after dealer discount, company discount, incentives, etc.).
The 5 speed AT gives a BIG advantage to the Ody and Sienna for acceleration but does NOT have any advantage when cruising down the interstate where small to medium grades are encountered. The Ody and Sienna engines are also quieter during acceleration than the DC 3.8L engine but the GC SXT seemed as quiet or quieter at freeway speeds as the Ody or Sienna.
Some people think the more extensive controls in DC minivans present a cluttered look but after driving my 2002 T&C LX and 2006 Sienna LE (and son's 2001 Ody EX), I like having the extra controls of DC minivans to the "One knob does everything" approach of Honda and Toyota.
Honda needs to modify the Ody chassis/frame so that it can hold up better in a REAR end crash test. Right now there is too much risk of whiplash/neck injury in the Ody.
If Hyundai keeps up the this safety theme and focus, they will soon be battling Volvo for the gold safety crown.
The whiplash/neck injury risk in the IIHS test is due ENTIRELY to seat/head restraint design, NOT chassis/frame design. The Kia is the only minivan with active head restraints, thus it AUTOMATICALLY received a "gold" pick for rear-end collisions.
Comparing the 06 Sedona to the 06 Odyssey on safercar.gov, the vans get identical scores (5 stars all around except they both received 4 stars for rollover).
Not sure what any of this has to do with the Odyssey vs. DCX vans.....
consumer surveys. JD Powers uses consumer surveys to derive their results. MSN Autos uses auto information services which gets their results from the aftermarket auto repair industry. So which one would you rely on for reliability stance, the consumer or a mechanic???
Now, i'm not going to sit here and say that the Honda Ody is a unreliable car, but when MSN Auto's gives it a RED indicator (which means that the system has had a high frequency of reported problems regardless of repair costs OR that the system has a moderate frequency of problems and that the cost to repair the problem is high),and a Yellow indicator (which means that the system has had a low frequency of reported problems but the cost is high OR that they have a moderate frequency of problems and the cost is low) it really makes one wonder what in the world is going on.
The Kia Sedona (for the models listed) has no red or yellow indicators and has all green indicating that the car has had a low frequency of reported problems, and the cost to repair any problems is also low. The biggest complaint I have seen with this van is its VERY VERY low gas mileage.
I also have noticed that most of the articles state, "given Honda's reliability" or "given Kia's Reliability" meaning they aren't even talking about the model they are reviewing. So what if Honda has a reputation in their Civics for being reliable, that certainly doesn't mean that their other cars are automatically going to be a stellar performer in the reliability market, and vice versa for Kia. So kia had a crummy past. Every review I have read relies on that particular detail in describing any of their new lines reliablity.
Just saying.. take these reports with a grain of salt.
I bought a 99 VW Jetta, and if I would have looked at the CR data and on various message boards I would never have bought that :lemon:
As for the MSN data, I am not sure how accurate that is in the case of Hyundai/Kia since their cars have 5/60 and 10/100 warranties. Unless the dealer shops are reporting this info to MSN, it would not reflect 2005 model year vehicles (I would assume). I would also question the dealer data anyway since they could easily manipulate what they send.
I would also stress that there is no such thing as a perfect car (I came close once with a 94 Nissan PUP that had zero issues outside of normal maintenance for about 5 years). Every manufacturer and model has reports of lemons, some just have more than others. It has taken years for Honda and Toyota to build their reputations for reliability and there have been issues along the way (Honda transmissions, Toyota engine sludge). If someone drives the Kia Sedona and all the other vans in their budget and likes it the best, they should buy it.
Um... nothing. :-) As requested earlier, would you folks continue this discussion in the right place? Either of these would be a better place than here:
Minivan Shopping
Kia Sedona (2006+)
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Yes, it's too bad the IIHS doesn't just call it a head restraint test or something. Many people just assume it is an impact crash test for the rear of the vehicle.
Also, to save costs, they perform their sled tests with an average male dummy at a typical seat recline and head restraint height. They also do not always test all types of seats or seating positions available in a particular model. So, a properly adjusted seat and seatback in one seat in a marginal vehicle could well be safer that a poorly adjusted one in another seating position of a good vehicle, or even a different trim level of the same vehicle. Finally, the tests don't apply at all to children in carseats with a high back that provides its own whiplash protection.
It's great to promote safer seat and head restraint designs. It's too bad that the testing isn't more thorough with a more descriptive title.
I read on here that one of the few likely changes for the 2007 Accord will be a Standard PAX TPM system...isn't it likely that the Odyssey might also get this tire pressure monitoring system on all its models, too?
We should revisit the JERK test.
I did some jerk tests and they worked which means that I was a big enough jerk. Some jerk tests did not work so my jerking was inadequate.
For those of you who have followed this thread for a while, this will not be jibberish!
Chrysler should have copied the Odyssey mechanism for folding the 3rd row seating...but wait, Sienna had the first 60/40 split fold into the floor 3rd row seating. Honda was smart to copy Toyota.
Copying good features makes all vehicles better.
Possibly a 6 speed. But I think you reach a point of dimishing returns pretty quickly and it becomes 'well, I've got more speeds so mine must be better' kind of nonsense. Heck, we may have already reached that point with the whole 4-sp vs. 5-sp debate.
Honestly, I think that what's more important is a fairly flat torque curve and a final drive ratio that will allow for relaxed highway cruising. How many gears are in the gearbox starts to be more bragging rights than anything.
Wouldn't be surprised if Honda/Toyota started copying the sto'n'go feature IF they can still maintain the flexibility/comfort of the current setup (positioning one seat either to the side or in the middle). I suppose they could just make one giant bin in the floor that either/both seats could fold into from any position. This gives you more seating flexibility AND more in-floor storage.....and one-upping DCX again.
I love competition. It makes for better products regardless of WHO you buy from.
The Sienna is either an 8 passenger or 7 passenger. The 2nd row right bucket in the Sienna is DIFFICULT to remove and slide to the middle...or move back to the side. The 8 passenger Sienna has NO arm rests for anyone in the 2nd row.
I do NOT like Chrysler Stow 'N Go seating in 2nd or 3rd row. None of those seats are as comfortable as the 2nd row or 3rd row seats of my 2002 Chrysler T&C LX, the 2006 Odyssey or 2006 Sienna.
I think Chrysler goofed by not continuing to offer the more comfortable seating of the 2001-1004 DC minivans for people who buy a minivan for carrying 7 people in comfort and have sufficient cargo space for all 7.
Here's an excellent summary of the new tranny:
62TE Tranny
Most newspaper articles about vehicles are most complimentary. :shades:
Looks like a return to their original 1984 - 1995 boxy look. Pics of the interior look terrible IMHO. I like the shifter where it's at, not taking up valuable IP space! Why won't those DCX guys listen to ME!!!!!
The new DCX vans remind me of the Uplander/Relay/Terraza triplets based on this photo.
Chrysler push buttons on the dash and Edsel push buttons in the center of steering column both FLOPPED. :sick: I hope the Shifter on the IP will also be a big flop.
I prefer the steering wheel location to either dash or floor robbing console on the floor. Since a driver's hands should be placed on the steering wheel while driving, it is more logical to have the shifter located next to the steering wheel than anywhere else. :shades:
I drive a lot of truck/SUV's with the column mounted shifter and a lot of cars with the console shifter. As far as convenience/operation, I always prefer the console shifter. That wouldn't work in a van because of the pass-thru to the rear seats.
I don't think the current setup clogs up the dash at all. You wouldn't normally find many controls in that area anyway on a well designed dash because when the column shifter is in any of the drive gears, it would block those controls anyway. Perhaps that's why the controls on the current Dodge are mounted so low in the dash. The Sienna shifter appears to block some controls, but I don't claim to have much seat time in one.
Number 2: GMC Savana
Number 3: Dodge Caravan
I myself don't put a lot of emphasis on their 90 day survey, preferring to look longer term as they also do a survey after three years of ownership where you start to get some feel of longer term reliability.
Good News for the DCX twins, however.
Well my 2005 Dodge GC is now 18 months old and last week I took it in for a recall on a possible crimped hose. I had it done the same time I had an oil change. That has been the only time I have had to take it in for anything besides oil changes. Everything on this van has work perfectly from day one.
I think this proves out what many Chrysler/Dodge minivan owners have been saying now for the last two and three years.
According to an article I read the other day, D.C. are now sending their technicians from Germany here, to learn our way of quality control