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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Oh yes, they do, opening door fluke non-with standing. Odyssey passes with flying colors.

    Yeah, lets just ignore flukes like flying doors, and lets ignore recalls on Safety items.....what was that last recall (#4 I believe??) for??? lets ignore the numerous issues on the wonderful Oddys.

    Pretty impressive when you think that Dodge can earn same safety ratings as Honda's ACE structure (BTW - it's just marketing hype for "safety cage" something VW created with Golf in 1974). Hmmm and the Dodge is considered an old design even.

    By ALL reviews, I'm sure you're referring to the glowing reviews in the car rags....such experts that they are. I happen to know a few of these "gods" personally....not too impressed.

    The new Oddy is great if you don't mind paying thousands more, but if you can't swing $24k for basic Oddy, you can get a very reliable new DCX Minivan with warranty, state of the art safety features, and more peace of mind (driving new, not worrying how to make the payment etc..) for $18k

    BTW - we are just talking MINIVANS here, not sports cars etc... a few extra G's road holding are meaningless unless you drive like an idiot, or you're passing in unsafe conditions, or riding someone butt to closely. Go buy a 911

    If you're buying a minivan for what they're mostly intended for i.e...hauling kids, shopping or hauling.....the DCX vans come out on top. Just check the sales figures. If Oddys were that great, and with all their new capacity, Honda should be leading DCX easily.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I go to the Dodge problem area and some poor guy is having problems with his 1994 Caravan. At 150k miles he's putting a new tranny in it!!

    Then I see on the Honda problem area that Honda is putting new trannys in their new Oddys!!!! Someone else got a whole new engine in their 2005 Oddy with 600 miles.

    God! I thought Hondas were the zenith of perfection??? I thought Hondas never have problems??? I see comments about Dodges alway being at Dealerships and never lasting more than 80k miles.

    What's going on here????
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    I had a very bad experience with a 1970 Dodge van and never considered another Chrysler corp vehicle until one son got a used 2002 Grand Caravan Sport 2 years after his brother bought a new 2001 Odyssey EX.
    A close comparison showed me that a DC minivan is a much smarter purchase than an Odyssey. More comfort features for less money. ;)
    After coming very close to purchasing a new 2005 or 2006 Odyssey EX, I am now afraid to purchase a new Odyssey....a new vehicle that is plagued with reliability and other problems. :sick:
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    A couple of things on the definitation of "quality."

    First is that just because one car is selling in greater quantities doesn't mean it has the better quality. If that were the case then the top 10 cars sold in the USA would equal the top 10 cars in overall quality, and I don't think anyone is saying that.

    Second is that just because you, a friend or relative you know has a problem with a model or manufacturer then that defines low quality. I had a 1991 Escort that I drove 180K miles and during that time I changed the waterpump once at 115K and the alternator at 120K miles. My brother had a Honda Civic with 80K miles that needed a new engine. But I know that overall Civic's have less problems and higher quality levels even if in my limited experience that's not the case. And that holds true with Edmunds postings...they're not a scientific analysis.
  • It should be noted that the more cars sold, the more problems that might show up. But that doesn't mean that it's not a high quality vechicle. As for quality, this is subjective in a lot of ways. It really depends on what the problems are. Some might think that changing brake pads every 30K miles on a minivan is good quality, but others might not think so. Some think that rattling sliding doors that stop working after the first few years of ownership is quality, but others think there not. Some think needing a trans. replaced after 100K miles is quality, while others think not. Or how about the fact that people by nature use past quality to judge future quality. Kinda gives you something to think about. :)
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,997
    Absolutely agree. I wish when Consumer Report or JD Powers gives reliability statistics that they provided more level of detail or at least categories. I'm not as concerned about 80% of a particular car having the same rattle then 20% having the alternator go out as soon as the warranty is gone. But at least it's good to have a baseline. If every car is examined and the definition of quality is measured in the same manner for every car then you at least have a point to examine the differences.
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    What goes around comes around, Honda is certainly plagued by problems.
    Some of the key Quality survey's also highlight the trend.
    Minivan Quality
    DC made a 50% improvement in quality over the past 3 years, if you take the overall brand problems Chrysler is with in striking distance of Honda.
    Quality issues can also be compensated by purchasing a 10yr/100K extended manufacturers warrenty for just $1000 from most manufactuers.
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    Side curtain airbags are Standard on Limited and an option on Town& County Touring, if consumer wants it he will get it, if they can pay $605.
    Even if Honda Odyssey customer want they cannot get Driver side inflatable Knee blockers which is again a minivan first on all Town&Country vans.

    Again I would list all of the Chrysler Minivan Security features below, Yes, some or optional, but Customes will get it if they want. Nothing is forced on the Consumer, DC believes Consumer is the King, and should be given an option to choose.

    2005 Chrysler Town & Country & GC SXT Safety features, everything is a STANDARD on the Limited

    Minivan-first driver-side inflatable knee blocker
    The knee blocker inflates in conjunction with air bag deployment to help position the driver relative to the air bag and offers additional upper leg protection.

    Three-row supplemental side-curtain air bags
    Three-row, A- to D-pillar side-curtain air bags provide full-length coverage for all rows of seats. The side-curtain extends protection to all outboard passengers. Both side-curtain air bags have independent impact sensors, which trigger the air bag on the side where impact occurs.

    Advanced multi-stage front air bags
    These air bags provide enhanced protection for a greater range of occupants at various deployment levels, based on the severity of an impact. The front passenger air bag is also equipped with a standard occupant classification system.

    Occupant Classification System (OCS)
    The OCS determines the conditions for activation or deactivation of the passenger-side front air bag, based on the weight of the occupant.

    Minivan-first standard door alert
    The alert signal lights activate when the power sliding doors or manual sliding doors are in operation, signaling that occupants are getting in or out of the vehicle.
    BeltAlert
    This system periodically activates a chime and illuminates a light in the instrument cluster to remind unbelted drivers to buckle up.

    Rear park assist
    This rear obstacle detection system offers an audible warning and rear overhead display.

    Child seat anchor system
    Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren (LATCH) help ease the installation of compatible aftermarket child seats.

    Enhanced accident response system
    This system makes it easier for emergency personnel to identify a vehicle and reach the occupant by turning on the interior lighting and unlocking the doors after air bag deployment.

    Constant force retractors (CFR)
    CFRs are engineered to force-limit the belt system and gradually release seat belt webbing in a controlled manner during a severe impact.

    Pretensioners
    During a collision, the front seat belt pretensioners electronically sense a crash and immediately remove slack from the seat belts, thereby reducing the forward movement of the occupant's upper body.

    Energy-absorbing steering column
    The innovative stroking steering column uses "release capsules," which allow the column to move forward for enhanced energy absorption during a crash. The column also features "tuned" metal bend straps that deform during column stroke for optimal energy management.

    Front crush sensors
    Two sensors located below the headlamps measure the severity of an impact and relay crash information to safety systems in the occupant compartment.

    Tire pressure monitoring system
    This advanced system monitors the pressure inside each tire and alerts the driver to improper tire pressure conditions.

    Anti-lock braking system
    Equipped with electronic sensors that prevent wheel lockup, the system offers improved steering control under extreme braking and/or slippery conditions
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    What goes around comes around, Honda is certainly plagued by problems.
    Some of the key Quality survey's also highlight the trend.
    Minivan Quality
    DC made a 50% improvement in quality over the past 3 years, if you take the overall brand problems Chrysler is with in striking distance of Honda.
    Quality issues can also be compensated by purchasing a 10yr/100K extended manufacturers warrenty for just $1000 from most manufactuers.


    Maybe I'm reading the chart wrong, but it looks like DCX has surpassed Honda??? (it's kinda small print for me to see).
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    THAT is what the chart shows. ;)
    However, the Sienna is still the quality leader. :blush:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    You confused I'm not suprised!

    Then I see on the Honda problem area that Honda is putting new trannys in their new Oddys!!!! Someone else got a whole new engine in their 2005 Oddy with 600 miles.

    Yeah let's take two posters and make them all honda owners! Forums like this are awful for really seeing what's going on out there!! There is a investigation on Dodge caravan headlights for 2002. Guess what they replaced 30,000+ under warrenty !! I saw nothing on these boards! It's the same people speading the same discontent! Now JD Powers is the king of all information of coarse CR is the worst rag in the world!! I bought a 2005 Honda I didn't get any input! Also it scored a 4 out of 5 on mechanicial quaility. This is the most important catagory to me they are problems with engine,transmission,steering, suspention, and braking!!

    God! I thought Hondas were the zenith of perfection??? I thought Hondas never have problems??? I see comments about Dodges alway being at Dealerships and never lasting more than 80k miles.

    I've been coming to this site for some time and I don't see it that way! I have never seen anyone say Honda was the zenith of perfection. I like the safety features better(VSC)! The ride better! The looks better!! The packaging better!! Results may vary!!PERIOD!! I owned a 2001 Dodge Caravan and was honest about the amount of time it was in the shop. I was never stranded but it was a real bummer!! I could have drove it 250,000 mile for the price I paid to buy any new van with the features I wanted!!I think that making things look better by pointing out every flaw you can find(real or imagined) isn't the best way to make a argument!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Pretty impressive when you think that Dodge can earn same safety ratings as Honda's ACE structure (BTW - it's just marketing hype for "safety cage" something VW created with Golf in 1974). Hmmm and the Dodge is considered an old design even.

    It refers to the frontal structure of the van. Here is the information from Honda!
    The Advanced Compatibility Engineering™ (ACE™) body structure incorporates a front-end frame structure that absorbs and disperses crash energy over a larger area. ACE increases Odyssey passenger protection, and makes it more crash-compatible with vehicles of differing ride heights. That dosen't sound like a safty cage to me!!

    By ALL reviews, I'm sure you're referring to the glowing reviews in the car rags....such experts that they are. I happen to know a few of these "gods" personally....not too impressed.

    I haven't met any of them. The info they gave seemed to be close to how I felt. But I also love alot of cars they hate!! People should look and feel for themselves!

    BTW - we are just talking MINIVANS here, not sports cars etc... a few extra G's road holding are meaningless unless you drive like an idiot, or you're passing in unsafe conditions, or riding someone butt to closely. Go buy a 911

    Yeah I'm gonna buy a 911!! What wrong with a sporty minivan! Nothing in my book.

    If you're buying a minivan for what they're mostly intended for i.e...hauling kids, shopping or hauling.....the DCX vans come out on top. Just check the sales figures. If Oddys were that great, and with all their new capacity, Honda should be leading DCX easily.

    The DCX is the van for the masses. It has very very basic vans to top end vans. Honda dosen't want to get into every segment. They have a slow as you go approach! BTW I keep hearing about all this capacity how many vans can Honda make in a year?? Do ya know?? Or is it just more speculation??
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    It refers to the frontal structure of the van. Here is the information from Honda!
    The Advanced Compatibility Engineering™ (ACE™) body structure incorporates a front-end frame structure that absorbs and disperses crash energy over a larger area. ACE increases Odyssey passenger protection, and makes it more crash-compatible with vehicles of differing ride heights. That dosen't sound like a safty cage to me!!


    It's crash management, not a new concept or technology - just new buzzwords and marketing hype. Ford lowered bumpers on Explorers to ride height concerns. VW/BMW etc....have structures that allow engines to drop down on impact, going under vehicle instead of damaging safety cage. All hype for a vehicle that gets 5 stars along with most other minivans.

    I drove the Oddy 5 times, back to back with DCX.......I wouldn't use "sporty" with either.

    Check out other areas for Honda capacity. In previous years I believe they were limited to 180k/year, I don't what the top end is any more.
  • j562002j562002 Posts: 5
    My parents owned a 2002 minivan for about 2 years and recently traded in on a 2005. Honda is definetly a great car in some aspects like styling, service, comfortable innovative and power. Bought the car used with 40 some thousand and all the way up to about 80 thousand had no problems after that watch out! Between 80,000 and 98,000 we had to have the tranny we replaced 3 times. Thank God it was under warranty, if not each tranny costs about 5,000 dollars to replace. The transmission started slipping and always made some type of humming/vibrating noise when cruising. The check engine light came on a couple times due to 02 sensors a couple times and actually that's about all the problems we had with it was the transmission which is indeed enough becuase when they have to replace it u are out a car for at least a week each time.

    So parents decided to trade in since the van had 99,800 miles and the warranty was up at 100,000 and the dealer said once it hit that they value of the car would drop about 2,000 dollars from the fact that once it does it will be harder for the next buyer to finace the car from a bank once it hits that 100,000 mark.

    2005 Honda Odyssey, WOW, what a nice car. I was woken up by my sister telling me that we got a new van so went to investigate and it is such a pimp ride. The car has so much style every where you look. the overhaul works out nice. All the details worked out in new model. The seats are wrapped in leather. There is more leg room over 02 and the positions of the seat more comfy. All controls within reach. Basically the car is great in every aspect.
    It drives like a BMW, The seats are very supportive. The radio is nice and clear although lacking deep bass. It feels airtight, much more quiet inside. headlights very bright, FINALLY cup holders that are very versitle holding about any shape cup you can stick in it and it stayed even around very sharp turns. More cup holders are nice now also. Engine feels great with pleny of power to go around. Although the only thing that I don't like is how heavy it feels with all the new features. The 02 is much lighter on its feet.
    Now as for Dodge minivans I cant say all too much since i havent had the honor to ride in them too much. But from seeing them around and riding in them a little I am not impressed very much. I would hope for their sake they come out with an overhauled model soon. The shape of the van is so lame. I would definetly consider that a grandma van. I think this might be a characteristic of american cars but the van's shockes are very soft unlike the odyssey is very firm and more predicable. The dodge minivan is also bland it looks like all other dodge cars not distinction again unlike honda is very refined. That's all for now
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Note this is an opinion based on observation only.The Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country are the best looking from any angle. The Toyota Sienna is the next best looking. The 05 Honda Odyssey is Ugly from the front and rear, ( where as the 99 to 04 were good looking from the front and rear). The Nissan Quest is dead last, even uglier from any angle. The "beer keg" console on the Quest makes you wonder if it was designed by a bunch of beer loving college students.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    It drives like a BMW

    ROFL.........LOLOLOLOL, I have owned a few BMWs, own one now, and someone must not drive too much to make such a statement. The only thing you might say reasonable is "The Oddy has a sporty ride" i.e...a little firmer than a Toyota or DCX Minivan, but to mention BMW and Minivan in same posting.....laughable!!!
  • Isn't the BMW a sporty ride? "Please don't take this stuff that seriously"!!! :) I think he said it drives "LIKE" a BMW. Besides there both just vehicles anyway. Or should I put the BMW in a class of it's own like "SUPER CAR"!!! An the ODYSSEY in the class of "MOMMYVAN"!!! Don't take this the wrong way the man is entitled to his own opinions. He's "HAPPY" with the van don't rain down on his parade, because he feel like this van drives LIKE your car. :shades:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Hey Honda actually benchmarked the 7 series when it made the van. Is it a 7 series no way LOL!! But it is faster 0-60, has a faster passing time 45-65, has better braking, and better gas mileage in all the tests I've seen Then the DCX!! I know its a Minivan but I like one that can get out of it's own way. Enjoyed another 340 miles this weekend out to the palm springs area!! A 7 series wouldn't seperate my kids as well as my Odyssey!! ;)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    "Benchmarked" that's about it. Lexus and Infineon have made great strides in BMW like handling and performance, with their RWD platforms. Acura isn't close, even with their new 4WD RL....best you can say is "great value for the money". Ohhh and great service...had a TL once.

    A 1.4 second dif in 0-60mph doesn't really help the Honda "get out of it's way" that significantly better than DCX, same with a "huge" 4 foot difference in braking.

    Gas mileage?? For all the hype of VCM etc.....it would appear the tried and true DCX V6 equals or surpasses the high tech Hondas - just check out chats on MPG in this forum. I for one don't trust the long term reliability of shutting down half your cylinders....no matter if DCX, Honda or GM does it... no thanks, I'll wait a few more years.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "The "beer keg" console on the Quest makes you wonder..."

    I always wondered why I liked that center console so much. :sick:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    A 1.4 second dif in 0-60mph doesn't really help the Honda "get out of it's way" that significantly better than DCX, same with a "huge" 4 foot difference in braking.

    Well I think it does and thats what matters to me so I guess it probably matter to other people!

    Gas mileage?? For all the hype of VCM etc.....it would appear the tried and true DCX V6 equals or surpasses the high tech Hondas - just check out chats on MPG in this forum. I for one don't trust the long term reliability of shutting down half your cylinders....no matter if DCX, Honda or GM does it... no thanks, I'll wait a few more years.

    Here are the results from car magizines they run usually the same coarse but you want me to look at a place where people complain about stuff TYPICIAL!!

    MOTOR TREND

    DGC SXT

    0-60 10.2 seconds
    60-0 (Braking) 136ft.
    Passing 45-65 5.6 seconds
    MPG 18.4

    Honda Odyssey

    0-60 8.4 seconds
    60-0 123ft
    Passing 45-65 4.3 seconds 30% faster
    MPG 19.8

    Motorweek
    Honda Odyssey
    0-60 8.7 sec
    60-0 130ft
    closed loop MPG- 22 mpg

    Truth about cars

    Dodge 0-60
    9.7 seconds
    Honda 0-60
    7.4 seconds

    I could go for a while but thats the norm of the reviews. There maybe somewhere out there where the dodge is faster and uses less fuel but I couldn't find it. Oh I get almost 22MPG on my EX-L.I used to get 17.5 on a 2001 Dodge Caravan 3.3L. The mileage will go down now that school is starting for my 10 year old 19MPG would be nice for me. Regards!
  • j562002j562002 Posts: 5
    humm lets talk reasonable. the 05 odyssey is about 10,000 dollars less expensive than the 05 bmw 5 series base model. The Odyssey comes with the entertainment center w/ wireless headsets. The 2.5L Bmw has 184 hp while the Honda has 255hp 3.5L and still gets the same gas miliage at 28/20. While you can only fit 5 ppl in BMer u can fit up to 8 in the Mommymobile. Lets see both the bmw and honda offer antilock brakes, side air bags,turnoff air bag feature, anti theft system, Depowered airbag, Sunroof, Electronic Brake Distribution, Vehicle Stability Assist with traction control,heated, body-colored side-view mirrors
    Automatic climate control with separate left/right temperature Ambiance LightingPW, PD, PW,PS All STANDARD. The list goes on so was it not reasonable for me to compare my Honda to a BMW?
    But if you wanted to go big timer with the 530i you would be paying about 15,000 dollars more for all the goods.

    Just a few things in common with the not so common. ;)
  • frodobfrodob Posts: 8
    Pretty impressive when you think that Dodge can earn same safety ratings as Honda's ACE structure (BTW - it's just marketing hype for "safety cage" something VW created with Golf in 1974). Hmmm and the Dodge is considered an old design even.

    My Saab 96 had a "safety cage" far better than the golf's many years earlier.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    My Saab 96 had a "safety cage" far better than the golf's many years earlier.

    It's called "Progress", i'm sure the 2005 Golfs have a better structure than a 96 Saab too.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Well I think it does and thats what matters to me so I guess it probably matter to other people!

    Based on Sales figures to date, I'd say saving $5000-$10000 is of more concern to more people than a 1.4 sec 0-60 time (using CR's more calibrated testing, than some motorheads roadtripping in Las Vegas), especially since we're talking Minivans, not sports cars.

    Here are the results from car magizines they run usually the same coarse but you want me to look at a place where people complain about stuff TYPICIAL!!

    So it's ok to use your own complaints about DCX vans .i.e..your 2001 DCX, but not other's posted here....Niccceeeee.

    I could go for a while but thats the norm of the reviews. There maybe somewhere out there where the dodge is faster and uses less fuel but I couldn't find it. Oh I get almost 22MPG on my EX-L.I used to get 17.5 on a 2001 Dodge Caravan 3.3L. The mileage will go down now that school is starting for my 10 year old 19MPG would be nice for me

    Funny how these glowing reviews never mention the real world price difference. There's no mention of the quality problems or recalls either. These cars rags are given primo vehicles, that have been checked out prior to starting their comparisons. I'd love to see them post 0 - dealership times!!

    Notice on Edmund even, they haven't tested a DCX van since 2001! No one's saying the Dodge is faster, I'm saying "so what" for a minivan!!!! If you think a second can save or prevent accidents, you beter buy a Porsche 911 then. Just think how cool you'd be to your 10 year old, dropping him off at school like that instead of a minivan!

    As far as real world gas mileage, one just has to review the Honda problems and mileage posts on this very forum. You're personal experience is different. I get 25 mpg on my DCX CG SXT with 3.8 V6 on trips and it's not broken in yet, around town 22 mpg, and towing my 3500 lb coleman popup/tent rv with van loaded I get 18 mpg.
  • frodobfrodob Posts: 8
    My Saab 96 had a "safety cage" far better than the golf's many years earlier.

    It's called "Progress", i'm sure the 2005 Golfs have a better structure than a 96 Saab too.


    1) The "96" was the model number. Mine was from 1968.

    2) And no... they don't. Those Saabs were built incredibly tough. :-)

    It was the only street model I was aware of at the time that didn't need to add a roll-cage in order to qualify for offroad rally races (maybe the Audi).
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    Agree. People who says Ody drives like a Bimmer never driven a Bimmer before.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    All SAABs, at least the one's I've owned prior to the GM acquistion, were built like tanks. From the SAAB 92-series (again, these are model numbers, not the year of manufacture), 93-series (both the Inline 3-cylinder 2-stroke & later with the Ford Taunus V4), 96-series (again with the Ford Taunus V4), the 99-series (with the Triumph-built Inline 4 & later with the SAAB Inline SOHC 4), on to the Classic 900-series (with the SAAB Inline 4 - both SOHC and DOHC) - all were exceptionally structurally strong vehicles with rollover protection not found in most cars of today. Early Volvo's were also unbelievably strong from a structural (and, engine) perspective. In fact, late '60s Volvo ads depicted a number of Volvos stacked on top of each other with no roof deformation, including the Volvo on the bottom. The Swedes know how to build tough vehicles.

    SAAB was building uni-body structures with a strong safety cage and crush zones front and rear when VW was still producing the original Beetle. Technical details such as engine compartment structural designs to force the engine to submarine the passenger compartment/saftey cage in the event of a front end collision to the trivial, but intelligent, details of running all brake lines inside of the car to prevent corrossion, show that SAAB was one of the first - along with Volvo - manufacturers to take safety very seriously. Note: If you've ever driven on some of Sweden's back roads, you will understand why SAAB chose to place the majority of the brake line run inside the car!
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    The only thing they have in common is that they both have 4 wheels.
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    Too bad Saab now just rebadges GM vehicles.
This discussion has been closed.