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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Good link for folks that don't understand stability control or want to know more.

    http://www.esceducation.org/index.shtml

    I know many of the car mags complain they can't get max performance out of vehicles with stability control because it doesn't let them push the vehicles to the limits. Some are more obtrusive than others. The fact it won't let the vehicle be pushed to the limits says something.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    vsc IMO is invaluable. You can skid in roads with light to moderate snow going 25 mph around a curve, let alone having black ice on the road. It happened to me a few times last year and I am a believer of vsc.

    as far as hp goes, there is virtually no difference if you only have one or two people on board these vans. But if you stack 6-7 people in them, there is a big difference in acceleration, braking and handling between these two vans, and the other ones as well. I don't know whether it's the engine or tranny or gearing. That's how I tested them before I purchased the ody.
  • Just where on that site is this posted?
  • VSC applies the brakes to the wheel that needs braking just prior to a skid, thus preventing it from skidding. If you have already applied the anti-lock brakes, as most people would do, how is VSC supposed to help prevent a skid? See Google VSC.
  • This from the latest issue of CR??? I see the Dodge in there concerning fuel economy at all?? Please clarify if you can.

    Its available online at CR free until 9/30. Just look under the CU vs government tests. If you looked at the latest addition it says to look there for results on all cars.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    In the days I managed a large auto repair facility, I had to deal with people sometimes who could go through brakes in 10,000 miles or less.

    It's the DRIVER, not the car! I don't care what make the car is!


    You may want to post this on the Honda - Problems and Solutions part of this forum. Some recent postings from Honda owners, think it's a Honda problem....brakes lasting 10k miles. I have seen people with brake lights on and accelerating at the same time!!!
  • VSC applies the brakes to the wheel that needs braking just prior to a skid, thus preventing it from skidding. If you have already applied the anti-lock brakes, as most people would do, how is VSC supposed to help prevent a skid? See Google VSC.

    Ok I'll try this one more time. It keeps you from losing control. Have you ever slid out from wet/snowy roads?? You are slidding way before you hit the brake. There's just not enough time to react. So it sees the car is starting to go off course and then brakes individual brakes and reduces the engine torque to keep you in line with where the driver is steering. If you applied the brakes the ABS should help reduce skid and still leave with ability to steer.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Only once or twice in my lifetime. Some of us learn fast and do not drive faster than the road conditions permit us to drive safely.
    I have NEVER been in an accident that caused any measureable damage.

    I feel that the DRIVER is the most important item for safety and for determining how long brake pads last.
  • Here is the EPA site.

    Under air polution score which is tailpipe emmisions that cause smog and health issues. 10 being best Honda Odyssey-7 Dodge 3.8L- 2. The greenhouse gas sroce was also higher. If those numbers come from the EPA wouldn't you think the EPA would have the right info?? The Honda Odyssey is the highest rated minivan by EPA standards. The Dodge is just rated.

    Here's the link!!

    link title
  • The info posted in 4646 is still incorrect. There is no 50 state Odyssey data, only California only and 49 state versions.Only 50 state versions of the DCX 3.8 are listed. Still no apples to apples.If you look at the little green U.S. map you can clearly see this the TRUTH. Poster Sebring95 is the poster I refer to that did not post where they got their data from.
  • The info posted in 4646 is still incorrect. There is no 50 state Odyssey data, only California only and 49 state versions.Only 50 state versions of the DCX 3.8 are listed. Still no apples to apples.If you look at the little green U.S. map you can clearly see this the TRUTH. Poster Sebring95 is the poster I refer to that did not post where they got their data from.

    The DCX 3.8L is available in all states I don't see whats hard to understand. The Honda has tweeked the emissions for Ca(which is where i live) So I can compare both of them to a DCX 3.8L! One for Ca and one for the other 49 states. I don't understand why there is a problem with this logic. Etheir way the Honda has a very good green score and the DCX 3.8L is much lower. As far as where Edmunds got that info I can't find it anywhere! Can you??
  • The info is posted in Edmunds which I referenced, stating I did not know where they got it from. Perhape the Host claries can help us out. Sebring95 has yet to post the source of their information. I questioned the source of sebring95's info as the site referred to is www.fueleconomy.gov not www.epa.gov both end in gov, now isn't that "special"
  • The info is posted in Edmunds which I referenced, stating I did not know where they got it from. Perhape the Host claries can help us out. Sebring95 has yet to post the source of their information. I questioned the source of sebring95's info as the site referred to is www.fueleconomy.gov not www.epa.gov both end in gov, now isn't that "special"

    Come on you know how much bigger goverments getting we have alot more politicial friends to appoint, fueleconomy.gov is part of the Department of Energy! Nothing special about that Dana! Shows tons per year from non VCM as 8.9 tons and VCM as 8.1 tons. The dodge 3.3 L is 8.6 tons and the 3.8L is 9.4 tons.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    A number of posts have already been deleted tonight, and if there are any more disrespectful or off-topic posts, they'll be deleted as well. This isn't the place to discuss each others' driving records, the validity of links, or the inner workings of VSC -- it's the Odyssey vs. Dodge/Chrysler discussion. Please limit your discussion to comparing/contrasting the attributes of these vehicles, or take it to the appropriate board.

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Think of the progress in the past 30 years!!!!! Compare number of smog days in LA in 1969 vs. 1999. I've read where the air coming out of the exhaust is cleaner than the air going into the engine in some parts of the country!!!!

    I remember my father moaning about electronic ignitions and how gapping points was a better way (since that is what he knew!)......now we have no keys, gas caps are going to dissappear next, flats are basically history.

    On top of all that, just seen on Matt Drudge, a report on the Saudis having twice the oil reserves they previously thought they had!!! Enough oil to fuel a booming world economy (including China) for the next 110 years!!!!!!!!!

    FYI - I'm a "glass is half full" kinda guy :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I stopped by the Dodge Dealer to check on 06 Minivans, and the warranty specifically. The salesman informs me that the warranty hasn't changed from last year??? But then goes on to tell me that the 7/70 is an "option", but the 3/36 overall is still standard. This guy wouldn't even talk price of "optional" warranty because the catalogs weren't out yet???

    Sorry but that is change in my book, for the worst. Ohhh on top of that....."the 7/70 really isn't needed, Dodge has been building the same basic engine/tranny for 11 years without problems"??????
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I'm not sure what you missed. If you go to the link I gave you yesterday, or here http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass/Minivan2005.shtml you'll see the scores. The Greenhouse Gas emissions are simply a math equation of gas mileage. The Air Pollution score is gathered based on smog/15,000 miles, and based on various levels of smog output to correspond with a score. If you click the link above the Smog Output, you'll get a chart showing what the scores equal, in terms of pounds of smog. There is one Dodge 3.3L V6 that is in the ballpark compared to any of the Odyssey engines, in terms of Smog Pollution.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    DaimlerChrysler has been making some stupid decisions lately. IF they reduce the 7/70 warranty they will lose market share.
    They may also lose market share because of their stupid decision to keep information on 2006 minivans off their web site while Honda and Toyota have made all information on their 2006 minivans available....even though Edmunds had the data before Honda and Toyota posted it. Edmunds has also had information on 2006 DC minivans in the Edmund's New Vehicle pricing. ;)
  • All estimates are based on EPA gas mileage ratings.

    From the Edmunds comparasion site, Pounds of smog producing pollution per 15,000 miles, Odyssey 3.5 = 20.8 - 25.0 POUNDS. Dodge Caravan 3.8 = 12.3 - 12.9. POUNDS

    From sebring95 referenced chart, Greenhouse gas produced in tons per year per 15,000 miles, Odyssey 3.5 = 8.40 - 8.90 TONS, Dodge Caravan 3.8 = 9.40 TONS, Dodge Caravan 3.3 = 8.60 TONS. Thes ratings are turned into an air pollution scores of 2 for the Dodge Caravan 3.8 and 6 for the 3.3. The Odyssey 3.5 scored a 6 or a 7. Looking at another chart that converts Air pollution scores into POUNDS per 15,000 miles, translates into Dodge Caravan 3.8 = 39.0 -40.6 POUNDS. Dodge Caravan 3.3 =12.3 - 12.9 POUNDS. Odyssey with a 6 = 12.3 - 12.9 POUNDS, Odyssey with a 7 = 7.9 - 11.8 POUNDS. Clear now? Or still confused because CR stated EPA estimates can be up to 45% off?

    Looks like Edmunds reversed its ratings, or they know something we don't.
  • Ok, I'd really like some help here with purchasing an Odyssey. I've never bought a new car before. We can afford the Grand Caravan SXT with leather since they're offering EP. That brings it around 26K. We PREFER the Ody EX-L for obvious reasons, but in discussions with dealers (phone, email, one face-to-face) they won't budge from $30K, which is a hair under MSRP, but more than we want to spend. I've read all the haggling tips and tricks but haven't been successful. I've burned through 5 Maryland Honda dealers so far and the best price I've gotten is 30,300 with destination, which is near Edmunds TMV price. Is it possible to buy an Odyssey for invoice (or close to it) or am I dreaming???
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Sure they will discount, lots of folks have bought them for invoice or +/- $500. It really comes down to demand in your area, and how desperate a dealer is to make a sale. You may have to go a good distance if they're in high demand. DC (and I'd assume a big chunk of MD, VA, Philly) seems to be a tight market on Odys. Seems a good chunk of the mid-west can buy them fairly easy closer to invoice. The DC EP makes it simple, but DC dealers are already used to selling at invoice all day long. Just have to find a volume Honda dealer. Buy what you want, even if it's a little more. I've bought cheap a couple times, and it ended costing a lot more trading early since I didn't get what I wanted in the first place.
  • Thanks for the info... I'd even be willing to travel to a dealership if it were 500 miles away or less if it would save me 3-5 grand. Any suggestions of dealerships that fit this profile in MD/VA/NC/PA/OH, etc and have sold an EX-L to you recently near invoice would be appreciated. I just got off the phone with a dealer who will do 28,755... we're getting closer.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,782
    I don't think you're dreaming, just unrealistic.

    Cars sell for whatever the market dictates. They are worth every penny of MSRP when you compare them with what's out there. After hearing this from FIVE dealers, I'm sure I'm not telling you what you don't already know.

    Also, know that some of the "Prices Paid" that you read about in internet forums aren't always accurate.
  • In my book a "dream" = "something that's not real" (unrealistic), so you think I'm dreaming about getting a price close to invoice, which is a fair answer.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not thinking that a Honda isn't worth the price, but when I hear that a lot of people are getting invoice, or near that, of course I'm going to want that too! There's obviously some room for negotiation even in the most high-demand market (like Maryland) if one dealer is quoting me $32,500 and another one 5 miles down the road is at $28,800. Certainly you can't tell me the first dealership is demanding a 12% premium to the other guy because it's what the market dictates.... it's the same market. There are other forces at work here: i.e., negotiation, holdbacks, etc. I'm in this forum for some help because I want advice on how to negotiate with a dealer, knowing that I'm in the market for a G. Caravan or Odyssey.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,782
    Based on what it's worth to you. Don't worry about the invoice, holdback or anything else. Don't worry about the dealer's overhead either.

    Check the Smart Shoppers forum. A lot of advise there.

    Also, please re-read my last sentence in my earlier post to you.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Also, please re-read my last sentence in my earlier post to you.

    I think we all got it. I'd like your method if you worked for me! I haven't seen prices paid that didn't seem more than realistic. Haven't seen any Odys selling for well under invoice, but the good deals are in that ballpark. Not sure why that would be so hard to believe. My third phonecall put me into an Ody EX-L R&N at invoice. I made it clear I didn't need any fancy playing around, didn't need babied, I would bring a check and take no more than a few minutes of the salespersons time. When I picked it up, I was in/out of the parking lot in less than 15 minutes. No reason a salesman shouldn't want that business. I've only paid more than $500 over invoice for two of my last ten new vehicles which include three toyotas, a honda, two Dodge, and two GM. Ended up $1,200 over on the wifes Lexus, and $900 over on the boys RSX-S. Sales folks don't like to hear this stuff, but that's life.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,782
    Nope...gonna keep quiet.
  • So since the dealer offered me 28,755 and I haven't made any offers yet, you guys think I should offer a bit less and call it a day since it's in spitting distance of invoice?

    Thanks for all the advice...
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Was at bookstore and picked up a CR Buyer Guide, the cheap and lowly Dodge Caravan garnered identical ratings as the Oddy....all above average with body integrity slightly above avg (same as Honda). Not bad at all.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Not very surprized since my 2002 T&C LX has greatly exceeded my expectations. ;)
This discussion has been closed.