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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    A 2003 T & C Limited with 52,000 miles and "Clean" condition is worth $14,000 in trade according to Edmunds. A 2003 Odyssey EX with leather is worth $16,570. I do believe the MSRP on the T & C was considerably more than the odyssey.

    What is the residual on the Honda? We will not know what the resale value is until 2008 for a 2006 model. Look at the historic resale value.

    You are right and I am right so who is right?

    Like I said, this helps no one. I spoke up and got berated just as I expected. I have been online for over 20 years and this is all expected conduct. As soon as you refute someone, no matter how accurate my information might be, I am labled a name.

    I will just continue to lurk.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    2006 T&C Touring w/ $28.8k MSRP has a 61% residual after 2 years, according to DCX Financial who is leasing them. Are you telling me it will only have 31% after one more year? Not likely.

    Take a look at what the banks are using for residual instead of DC. Ford and DC regularly jack up their residuals to give a cheaper payment. GMAC isn't too bad about it, they're usually in the ballpark. Go to one of the lease assumption sites www.swapalease.com or www.leasetrader.com and look at the buy-outs on Fords/Dodges. It basically makes it a bad deal on the tail end. I've never been able to assume a Ford or DC product because of that. Now, they WILL negotiate the buyout on the tailend, but that's a big unknown so it's not worth the risk to me.
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    Whether anyone uses the Sow N Go or not is somewhat irrelavent. Value is based on perception and Stow N Go has buzz right now. Will it last? No one knows.

    A minivan can hold more stuff covered than the average pickup truck. 4x8 sheets of material with the hatch closed. I have a truck to haul cargo as well, but I find myself using the van sometimes instead of the truck. The whole point of Stow N go, Magic seats, etc is flexibility because most people do not want (or cannot afford) to buy a comfortable 7 passenger vehicle and a long bed pickup. Even if you do not need that flexibility, others do as evidence by sales numbers.
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    Ford Credit, GMAC, and Chrysler Financial are making loads of money. If they inflate residuals for low payments, wouldn't they be stuck in the end with large negative equity? How do they make money with low cash flow (low payments) and miscalculated residuals?

    I would not say that the OEM financing arms have accurate residual values, but they can't afford to be that far off.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    Can not agree less with that statement. I have had my van since February. Stowed all the seats at least a half dozen times and stowed the rears least a dozen times. I think just the opposite is probably true ... 10% of owners never stow their seats. It is the best of both worlds ... passenger hauling and comfort plus cargo hauling ability.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    The high residuals are basically like additional incentives, only they get tagged for the money on the tail-end of the lease. But they also get to pickup the money factor throughout, as opposed to someone using private financing so it generates business for their financing arm.

    Plus they have an advantage on the tail end. They run the cars through their own sales, it ensures their dealers have fresh trades in good condition with required maintenance, so they can get slightly more money at a DC dealer only sale than they might elsewhere.

    But if you look at a Dodge/Ford residual vs real-world trade/wholesale value there's a good chunk of money on the table.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I'm sure there are a lot of DC owners just because of the stow-n-go seats. Anyone that uses their van for more cargo than passengers will love them. I have a relative that is trading her 3rd DC van early just because she wants the folding seats. She uses her van almost 100% for cargo and generally the seats are out, and she throws them in a few times a year for passengers. I see a lot of 1 passenger minivans and a lot of elderly folks that have them most likely for the space.

    I personally have never removed the seats from any minivan I've owned. Never had a need to, but I have several pickups sitting around so I don't tend to drive the van if I need cargo space! Of course if I had to go to only one vehicle, I'd have another Suburban.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Good point. If you ever want to see a mini-van convoy, try a weekend excursion with the girl or boy scouts. The last time I took my daughter to such an event, almost every one of the vehicles were mini-vans. And most were packed with items that blocked the rear and side windows. One set of parents in the troop have traded their 2004 Caravan for a newer version with Stow & Go. Recent folks who I have heard discussing mini-van purchase all mention Stow & Go.

    Something tells me that while Chrysler is the only one that has it, it'll be considered valueless by advocates of other types. But when copied in some way, it'll suddenly a very exciting feature.

    Dusty
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    But we have to give Honda credit for re-inventing the old American station wagon "fold-into-the-floor" 3rd row seat, renaming it the "Magic Seat", and now almost everyone wants the feature.
    Toyota upped the feature content with the 60/40 split, fold-into-the-floor 3rd row and now the Odyssey, Grand Caravan, and Town & Country have it also.
    I personally prefer the more comfortable 50/50 fold and tumble 3rd row seating of my 2002 T&C LX where I can easily remove one side and the middle seat of that side and have room for a nice comfortable mattress to sleep on. ;) (The Odd 2nd row seats are NOT nearly as easy to remove and replace as the 2nd row seats of my T&C).
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    Every time I remove the rear seat in my 1994 Grand Caravan ES, I certainly wish it had the "Stow & Go" feature! I seldom remove the two captain's chairs in the middle, but for the extra area for hauling, the full-size rear seat is removed quite often. I've gotten to the point where removing the seat by myself is no real chore - if you enjoy heavy lifting!

    While I was between jobs a year ago, I tried my hand at selling new cars at the local Dodge dealership. Actually, it was an enjoyable experience, and the Grand Caravan's with their Stow & Go feature were our top sellers. I think less time was spent on a minivan sale than any other vehicle in inventory, with the possible exception of a Jeep Wrangler.

    As to resale value (I don't look at or consider residual values, as I never lease vehicles), I really could care less. As you can tell from the 1994 Grand Caravan, I keep a vehicle for a long time, thereby making resale or trade-in values moot. The '94 is essentially worthless to everyone but me. I think I'll keep it; it's just too good of an utilitarian vehicle to be without. Its interior is like new, it's on the original 4-speed ECT (158K), and the engine (3.3L OHV V6) still is in good shape with very little oil consumption between the 3K oil changes. I have used Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic since purchase, and have changed the ATF every 20K - plus no "jack rabbit" shifts or very few unnecessary kick downs. Maybe that's why the transmission is still shifting smoothly. And, it still delivers 26 to 27 MPG on Summer vacation trips with the AC on.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    The '94 is essentially worthless to everyone but me. I think I'll keep it; it's just too good of an utilitarian vehicle to be without. Its interior is like new, it's on the original 4-speed ECT (158K), and the engine (3.3L OHV V6) still is in good shape with very little oil consumption between the 3K oil changes.

    Thank you for the info!! I've seen posts on here that domestics don't last long term. Usually there's no basis for the belief, all you have to do is say it to make it true. You take care of your car, it'll take care of you.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    While y'all mull over the importance of Stow and Go read this:

    NHTSA said it's probing air bags on 410,000 of DCX's 2005 minivans. The NHTSA minivan inquiry covers Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Caravan and Grand Caravan models, for which five complaints have been received that an air-bag crash sensor failed, NHTSA said.

    So, while your van is full of "stuff" on your nice, flat floor, your face, head and upper torso have been flung through the windshield.

    Wouldn't most of you prefer that your airbags go off in a crash? And, based on an earlier discussion about how just a few complaints on here equal widespread flaws in Honda vans, you would have to agree that five failed airbag deployments represents a horrific flaw in the DCX vans.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "..your face, head and upper torso have been flung through the windshield"

    Doubtful...if one had their seatbelt on no part of the body would be flung through the windshield.

    But, yes...in a crash I would prefer that my airbags go off. Though I would not yet jump to any conclusions about any "flaws" until the study is complete.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Though I would not yet jump to any conclusions about any "flaws" until the study is complete.

    That is like saying "Even though this airline has a terrible maintenance record they have not had a crash so I can fly safely".

    My primary reason for posting the original message was to show some of the Honda bashers who claim a couple of posts on here equal a massive latent defect in the Odyssey. Apparently NHTSA feels that way about 400,000+ DCX minis based on five complaints.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Remember that the Odyssey was THE ONLY minivan in which a door flew open during a side impact crash test. :sick:
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Yes but that situation was corrected. I have not heard of any airbag misfires on the Odyssey.

    I remember my 1989 Festiva having a seatbelt recall. Ford had Festiva owners bring the car to the dealer for replacement of defective latches. Since the parts were on back order Ford gave me a loaner to use for six weeks until the parts arrived. It was a safety issue and Ford did not want the liability in case of an accident. Shouldn't DCX do the same? A safety system failure should be cause to park the vehicle until repair can be made.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I have not heard of any airbag misfires on the Odyssey.

    Maybe you haven't but someone obviously has:

    2005 Honda Odyssey Touring NHTSA Recall ID Number: 05V344000
    Recall Date: AUG 01, 2005
    Component: AIR BAGS:FRONTAL:SENSOR/CONTROL MODULE
    Potential Units Affected: 85154
    Summary: THE FRONTAL AIR BAG SYSTEM HAS TWO EXTERNAL IMPACT SENSORS. ON CERTAIN MINI VANS,SOME SENSORS WERE INSUFFICIENTLY SEALED DURING MANUFACTURING. IF WATER ENTERS A SENSOR, CORROSION CAN OCCUR. CORRODED SENSORS COULD SHORT CIRCUIT INTERNALLY. IF SENSORS FAIL, THE SRS WARNING LAMP ON THE INSTRUMENT PANEL WILL TURN ON AND REMAIN ILLUMINATED.
    Consequence: FRONT IMPACT SENSOR FAILURE COULD CAUSE A DELAY IN, OR LOSS OF, FRONTAL AIR BAG DEPLOYMENT, WHICH CAN INCREASE THE RISK OF INJURY IN A FRONTAL CRASH.
    Remedy: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FRONT IMPACT SENSORS. THE RECALL BEGAN ON AUGUST 30, 2005. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009.
    Notes: AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO., P80


    I wouldn't be surprised if these two issues are related somehow...maybe same supplier?
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Owners of these affected Odysseys should be able to park them at a dealer and get a loaner until the fix is made. Honda must have bought the sensors from DCX :)
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "I have not heard of any airbag misfires on the Odyssey"

    Per the Louisville Courier Journal...in the DCX case the NHTSA stated they had "recieved 5 complaints claiming failure in 2005 model year minivans of the front air bag crash sensors. The complaints said dealers replaced the front crash sensors after receiving questions about the air bag warning lamp iluminating. Field reports indicate the sensors may have failed because of corrosion."

    So, there were no accidental "misfires".
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    If a DCX van is in a wreck and the bags fail to inflate that would be a misfire.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    If a Honda van is in a wreck and the bags fail to inflate that would be a misfire.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Agree with dennis but CR would just ignore the facts and continue to list the Odyssey as their most highly recommended just as they ignore the fact that a door flew open during a side impact crash test. :sick:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Agree with dennis but CR would just ignore the facts and continue to list the Odyssey as their most highly recommended just as they ignore the fact that a door flew open during a side impact crash test.

    Well seems like alot of places think the Odyssey is the highest rated van. They like all the features and driving dynamics. Let's see what Edmunds has to say about the 2006 minivan. It is the Editors most wanted for 2006.

    I like the review!

    Just as the New England Patriots have dominated professional football of late, Honda has virtually owned this segment since stealing the title from Chrysler in 1999. And 2006 is yet another championship year for the Odyssey. The Odyssey continues its tradition of carlike ride and handling, further enhanced by a stout structure and well-tuned suspension dynamics. If you're looking for a minivan that's enjoyable to drive in addition to being practical, Honda's van remains the leader in this area. The Honda Odyssey offers two V6 options. Both are 3.5-liter VTEC engines rated at 244 horsepower, and are mated to a five-speed automatic transmission.

    As far as the door flying open it still received a 5 star rating and it has been fixed for the 2006 model year.
  • fljoslinfljoslin Posts: 237
    I had a 1992 Grand Caravan (3.3L, 4 speed auto), purchased in 1995 with 70,000 miles and donated to charity in 2001 with 170,000 miles. The engine and trans ran fine when donated, F/R A/C (Freon 12) was awesome. The only real problem that I had was front axles. I used synthetic engine oil every 3k and changed the trans oil about once per year using synthetic Dextron III (Mobil 1). I replaced this vehicle with a 1995 Suburban which has 146,000 miles on it now and is a great rig except for the gas mileage (15 mpg hwy, 13 mpg city).
  • UGHHHHH. It's me again but I will blow all of your minds by posting a message 2 paragraphs or less. Impossible right?

    I think what needs to happen here is that once I receive my 2006 Grand Caravan SXT (Stow-n-Go), I'll post a message on this site 1 year from now and give you all a status on my opinion of it. We will go over how many problems I have or don't have, how much I used or didn't use stow-n-go and the special options I either liked or didn't care for. At any rate, my opinion would be unbiased cause I'm not really out to say Dodge or Honda is better than one another. And I would give some good facts based on my experiences not magazines. But then again, I might put Kiplinger and all of these other magazines out of business by telling the truth, not selling hype.

    After all, if I was an editor of any of those magazines.. I sure could sell alot of vans, just based on my opinion. I'm sure my phone would be lighting up with incentives and special deals from automakers to test drive and give a push for one of their vehicles. Sounds like a cushy job to me. As cushy as the seats. :)
  • ClaireS,

    I was just trying to have some fun with it.. make fun of the situation. I really think all of these people have honest opinions. They just really support and back in what they believe. I have my own opinions about things other than Vans and cars and I would be just like all of them arguing points. I guess that's better than just letting it all go and just believing what everyone tells us. When we get to that point.. we surely have lost are freedoms.

    And now a PR annoucement from Kiplinger on what van to buy and why. :)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I'll post a message on this site 1 year from now and give you all a status on my opinion of it. We will go over how many problems I have or don't have, how much I used or didn't use stow-n-go and the special options I either liked or didn't care for.

    My first year is coming up in Dec....so far not a single problem, I usually have stow n go seats folded into floor. Have used them about 30% of the time. I hate the sliding climate controls and moving seats forward to use stow n go. I love my power rear hatch and side doors and sunroof. I have about 8500 miles on her, with typical MPG of 21mpg....short trips up to Sam's. I also love the way she tows my camper...piece of cake!

    BTW, these car rag editors don't live in the real world either. Very few of them own cars (other than show cars), or own the cars they review. They have a huge lot of cars to pick from daily.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    The only difference between the opinions of car magazine editors and anyone else is that they get paid for having an opinion. Since many of the accolades given most vehicles is based on subjective criteria, a good portion of public opinion will likely not match. For example, I cannot think of one car, mini-van or truck that has receive praise for seat comfort from opinion-for-hire magazine folks that I found comfortable. I find that ride, too, is usually subjective.

    In any event, given enough time any crown will fall, especially from complacency. And nowadays the last one in with new product usually trumps the field.

    Dusty
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Very few of them own cars (other than show cars), or own the cars they review.

    So people who don't own the car shouldn't talk about it?? Sounds good to me LOL!!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Very few of them own cars (other than show cars), or own the cars they review.

    So people who don't own the car shouldn't talk about it?? Sounds good to me LOL!!!

    My point is they don't live in the real world. Just like the Auto execs here in Detroit. They constantly get new cars to drive, drive em from their lush homes in West Bloomfield MI, to the office where they're cleaned and detailed daily, if there are service issues, they just get a new one, never having to take it to a dealership for service themselves.

    Same for auto rag editors and writers. Very few of them actually own real car, most have "toys" and use what's in the Car & Driver garage the rest of the time.

    I can only think of 2 writers who actually are real people with real cars.....it's a husband and wife team - He Drove, She Drove. Check out their articles...they're fun to read.

    He Drove, She Drove
This discussion has been closed.