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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    This is a place to talk about the positives and negatives of your minivan buying experience. Hopefully it can help people ask questions about what they want from the car they buy. I liked the dodge Caravan(2001 I owned for 52 months) it was a ok vehicle, but definitely not great. Handled ok and never left me stranded. I did bring it in for alot of problems. Airbag light on(second day I had it), radio broken, wheatherstripping, strut replaced, 2 recalls, and power steering pump noise. All in 50,000 miles. Maybe mine was different but consumer reports says it a car to avoid(2001-2002) . I also found the seats too soft got fatigue(in my butt no less) after a while, and the interior was falling apart. Tryed to sell it in the paper but after a few weeks decided to trade it in. Paid 15,800.00 Trade in 4,700.00. The blue book trade in was 5300.00(Good condition but with all the paint chips and the second row back of seat coming apart it wasn't too good LOL).

    I was wondering why the owner satisfaction and experts reviews are so high on the honda.

    Here is what Consumer reports has to say.

    2005 Honda Odyssey EX- Overall test score Excellent
    HIGHS -Engine and transmission, ride, handling, interior flexibility, fit and finish, standard safety equipment.
    LOWS - No telescopic steering wheel
    2005 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT- Overall test score Good
    HIGHS - Interior flexibility
    LOWS - Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls, course engine

    The list of awards and praise go on. Even the site that marine gave me for the crash data says the seating comfort is EXCELLENT!!

    Now to be fair nothing is perfect and I have all of 1000 miles on my Honda. Will it be a better car(I hope so, but nothing is a given) The two trips to San Diego 200 miles round trip were oh so comfortable.Will be going to Sedona this next weekend, wow the RES is gonna be nice.

    It looks like the new Honda has at least two issues that could be a real drag. Rocks seem to be taked out the A/C and the wheatherstripping(Not the doors closing)at the bottom of the sliding doors are getting bent over and not sealing properly. There are companies that sell rock gaurds for about 60.00 bucks (none for the 2005 Odyssey yet but if this is a problem they'll make one). And hopefully honda will redesign a retrofit weather strip.

    BTW I love the Stow and GO seating. But that alone isn't enough for me to buy another Dodge. Also I love the Magnum and the new Charger(I'd love to have a RT in my driveway). But the Dodge GC just didn't have the comfort/handling/features that I wanted.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    "BTW I love the Stow and GO seating. But that alone isn't enough for me to buy another Dodge. Also I love the Magnum and the new Charger(I'd love to have a RT in my driveway). But the Dodge GC just didn't have the comfort/handling/features that I wanted."

    I feel the same as you, having rented 60+ minivans over my past 2yrs of business travels, mostly DGCs and some T & C (some fully loaded with less than 10 miles on the ODO). The sporty handling and spirited performance of the Ody cannot be matched. But I have never had reasons so far to remove the second row seats in my Ody for transporting anything.

    Always glad to get back to driving the Ody.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    As far as "true" costs...just wait until trade in time when nobody wants to bid on your Chrysler. We get hit at least a thousand or two "back of book" every time on these. forget what the guides say. This is reality on these.

    The reality is, the thousands I saved more than compensates me for lower resale value. In 4-5 years I'll sell it for whatever, take the money out of the bank.....and buy another. It's not rocket science here....just common sense.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    When someone disagrees with you you say that they are combative. You have said it to me about my previous posts. You don't seem to understand how to respond to a comparison if Honda doesn't come out on top. It is never Honda's problem it is the customers perception, bad seat, doors that open up in a crash testing, recall notices and the list goes on and on and......

    Again, it is Chryslers turn at bat and they have hit a home-run, get over it!


    EXACTLY!!!!! If you point out their 3 recalls and problems, actual substantial items you get nothing in response because they have none. But that's being "combative". Meanwhile we get attacked on little 0-60 times, or turning radius, or how to substantiate feelings like "my DCX vans were POC" or "always taking to dealer"???
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I must admit that stow-n-go made a large part of my decision to buy the DGC. But that was not the only reason by a long shot. It had the overhead computer and rear power hatch that Honda or Toyota couldn't give me for anywhere near what I paid. Plus zero financing.

    A five speed tranny, an engine that was a second or two faster, turning two feet shorter or stopping four feet shorter didn't enter my mind and I doubt it did most other Honda buyers. Most bought because Honda is a good looking van inside and they have been programed to believe nothing goes wrong with a Honda. I'm sure many didn't even drive it more than a couple of miles before buying it, or some wouldn't now be complaining of the front driver's seat hurting their back.

    Honda is a very good minivan. But it's got it's faults. I think the new 2005 Dodge/Chrysler minivans could be the best Chrysler has ever put out. Their engine is old, but it's proved to be strong and very reliable. It seems like Chrysler's problems with their trannies are behind them now and their four speed shifts smoothly and the minivan gets pretty good gas mileage using that combination.
    There are hardly anyone complaining of any major faults with the 2005's and it's been out for over a year now. The van is rattle and wind noise free, is quieter than any van Chrysler has ever made and it's "tight as a drum".

    Though many of you Honda owners think it's going to lose most of their value compared to Honda, I think the 2005 with stow-n-go, will be in big demand when they start hitting the used car market and will not devalue like other Chrysler/Dodge vans have. I know my brother can hardly wait to buy one, because he doesn't want to buy one new.

    One thing that has made Chrysler vans devalue more and not Honda, is that Chrysler puts out so many more than Honda which drives down price, because of competition and because Chrysler builds minivans from the top of the line to a bare bones model. Honda and Toyota do not fill the needs of people who just want or can afford a new minivan with just a few options on it. It only makes sense if looking for a minivan and there are a lot more to choose from with one make than there is another, the one that has the most, is going to have to sell it cheaper because there are other places to go to get the same van cheaper. It's works the same with coin collecting. The less there is, the more valuable it is. One big problem with making 11,000,000 minivans.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Again, it is Chryslers turn at bat and they have hit a home-run, get over it! <<

    Well they might have hit a home run with the stow and go seating. But in overall design the car is growing old. Hell its got a live rear axle and leaf springs. There is not a single expert on edmunds or anywhere esle that rates the 2005 GC higher than the 2005 Odyssey. But if you put in price and you keep a car 10 years. I can see it be very close in overall value.

    A homerun they may have hit with stow and go, but 1 run in the bottom of the ninth when your down by 5. Still dosen't win the game.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    Why are you Chrysler owners so combative? <<

    You only see it that way because you are biased. I have never seen you reply to some of the outrageous claims by Honda owners here (like say, a minivan owner that doesn't like to drive "spirited and engaging" is an "old fart". Why's that? Is that not combative? Do you agree with that statement?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Minivans aren't a hot market segment. Most peole dont know the dif between a solid axle or wishbone suspension, and don't care as long as it rides decently smooth and is quiet. Experts may value such things but it seems consumers are voting with $$$$. The only game I see is market share, and the new DCX Minivans and LX cars are help DCX increase it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,350
    Sorry, but I have done this. I thought dae went over the top with some of his/her postings and I said so.

    And, no, I don't agree with that statement. In emergency handling, I would prefer the handling of an Odyssey way over that of a Chrysler.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Hey if you just went to this forum you'd surely think minivans were a hot market segment. I keep hearing about all the recalls and you also reference the 1999 Honda Odyssey vs the 2001 Caravan(which isn't much different fromthe one now). Seems that Edmunds did a long term study on both of those vans. You should read them pretty good stuff. Recalls problems Dodge- 10 Honda -3. I'll be damned if it isn't the same problems as mine just switch A/C condenser for weather stripping. I will not sit here and say all is perfect with honda.

    Here's how I see the advantages(not in any order)
    Honda
    1. Ride and handling
    2. Fit and Finish
    3. 0-60 times
    4. Standard safety equipment
    5. Brakeing
    6. Engine and transmission
    7. Fuel economy

    Dodge
    1. Price
    2. Interior flexibility
    3. Mature product(possibility of less recalls)
    4. More available options

    I think the experts are right on the Caravan is a GOOD but a little old. The price difference and available options make it attractive for some buyers.

    But for my money 180.00 over invoice,the EX-L with RES works great for me!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Hey if you just went to this forum you'd surely think minivans were a hot market segment. I keep hearing about all the recalls and you also reference the 1999 Honda Odyssey vs the 2001 Caravan(which isn't much different fromthe one now). Seems that Edmunds did a long term study on both of those vans. You should read them pretty good stuff. Recalls problems Dodge- 10 Honda -3. from what I'd seen, Honda had 7 recalls in 1999?? where you get 3 from? Ohhh you're just counting current model?? How convenient!!!! I'll be damned if it isn't the same problems as mine just switch A/C condenser for weather stripping. I will not sit here and say all is perfect with honda.

    Here's how I see the advantages(not in any order)
    Honda
    1. Ride and handling - matter of personal opinion, I drove both and there wasn't any difference.
    2. Fit and Finish - This could easily go in DCX favor, especially when you factor in poor fit glove box doors, and ill fitting sliding doors.
    3. 0-60 times - Ohhh wow!! got me by 1.5 seconds here! Remind me not to race you at a red light!!
    4. Standard safety equipment - standard, yeah but available but DCX has some std equipment that's not hyped to death like kneebags and auto flashers for door opening.
    5. Brakeing - Ohhh wow, add 4 feet to my stops after ripping out from a red light trying to catch an Oddy, while some babe in a Miata is beating us both!!!
    6. Engine and transmission - My DCX vans have always be a pleasure to drive
    7. Fuel economy - Ohhh yeah, good winner here (NOT), go poll what Oddy owners are getting close to EPA numbers - not many!! Mine's not broken in and I get 25mpg on highway, 19 around town.

    Dodge
    1. Price
    2. Interior flexibility
    3. Mature product(possibility of less recalls) - LOL, not possibility, but ACTUAL less recalls. and if you go back years and compare recalls....Honda would be lucky to have less total recalls!!
    4. More available options
    5. Flexible configuration to meet any needs..i.e..short wheelbase, long wheelbase, 4cyl vs. 6 cyl
    6. Reliability
    7. dealer network and service
    8. fuel economy
    9. quiet ride
    10. lower repair cost to body damage if in accident
    11. better value

    I think the experts are right on the Caravan is a GOOD but a little old. The price difference and available options make it attractive for some buyers.

    But for my money 180.00 over invoice,the EX-L with RES works great for me!! What dealer did you get this from, is he on this planet???
  • 1996519965 Posts: 11
    **3. Mature product(possibility of less recalls) - LOL, not possibility, but ACTUAL less recalls. and if you go back years and compare recalls....Honda would be lucky to have less total recalls!! **

    WOW!! I think he's saying it's PROBABLY why there's fewer recalls.

    **But for my money 180.00 over invoice,the EX-L with RES works great for me!! What dealer did you get this from, is he on this planet??? **

    I'd like to know too... Thanks!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Rock Honda Fontana.

    Hell, the SXT got 17MPG and the EX 19 in consumer reports testing. This is not my fault. Eveyone says the overall fuel economy is better still not my fault. iIowned a Dodge for 4+ years now that was my fault. Did you look at all the problems that the long term 2001 DGC had 10 problems/recalls in 2 years and 37,000miles. Reliabilty was like mine BAD!!!! The 1999 honda had 3 problems and 1 was brake pads in 43,000 miles. If you think reliability is good thats your opinion no what all the auto reporting places (consumer reports et all) says again not my fault. Read all the reviews DGC poor fit and finish, Honda Odyssey good fit and finish. Now dennis you said you were in the car business so you would know well all these people are in the car business so they know (Right??) If you what to get from point A to point B and don't want to spend the money the Dodge is the car for you. Also you can say the same things over and over again but the dodge is GOOD and the Honda is Excellent in most reviewers minds. Dodge average reliability. Honda above average. You may have paid less for you van but I think I'll pay less at the pump and the dealer and that is just my opinion(common sense)
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    This was before the 2005 Honda came out, but where does it say Chrysler's fit and finish is poor?

    Read all the reviews DGC poor fit and finish,I

    "Inside the Chrysler&#146;s styling is at least adequate, with sophisticated instrument graphics adding a touch of class. In the upper trim lines the seats continue to be upholstered in either a heavy grained leather (Touring) or a combination of this leather and suede (Limited). Both are attractive. I especially like the leather in the Touring. In either trim the Chrysler&#146;s interior is the most upscale of any minivan. For 2005 the trim on the dash and doors has been revised for a higher-quality, even more upscale look and feel. Fashionable faux metal bits further improve the interior&#146;s ambiance. I personally prefer the Touring, which does without the Limited&#146;s fairly convincing faux wood"
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    There is the mention of poorly fitting interior trim pieces in consumer reports. I was also going by my own problems and my cars fit anfd finish. The 2005 may be improved, but I haven't seen many reviews. Sorry for stating something that maybe misleading. The VSC was the main selling point for me and the dodge I had before had oh so many issues for a 50,000 mile vehicle. I am almost 40 years old and have never replaced a car with less than 100,000 miles. When I bought my 2001 Caravan I got 5,500 off the sticker price. I thought I was getting good value. Well I didn't.It was marginal at best. BTW weren't you the one saying that the car crash data from Honda was being withheld. That data has been out for months. 5 stars all around(a safety concern with front driver side opening from side impact) and best pick for offset(Dodge is acceptable). Along with VSC and standard side airbags. As far as how quite my van is I got 3 kids 3-10 so IT's never quite in there . So I can't really comment on that. I only hear how great the dodge/chrysler vans are here comeon guys show me one reviewer that says dodge/chrysler is the top minivan. All you have is your opinions.
    Here is the other information from the edmunds town and country review that I never see anybody post here! All I see is the tight as a drum quote. I'll give you the pros and cons from edmunds review remember this is a top of the line chrysler.

    Pros Excellent ride and handling, good low-end pull from 3.8-liter V6, roomy and luxurious interior, innovative fold-flat second- and third-row seats.
    Cons Unimpressive reliability history, major safety features remain optional on lower-level models, no stability control

    Chow!!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    When you talk about resale values, have any of you guys ever heard of the laws of supply and demand? When you have an limited amount of product available (Honda Odyssey's) versus a large amount of product available (DC minivans). The limited supply product always commands a higher price.Reference any High School or College Economics text. If you were a used car dealer and had 5 DC minivans on the lot and only 1 Odyssey, and an owner of either came in asking for a trade in price, who do you think would get the higher trade in value?
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Even what you posted said it had roomy and luxurious interior. Far from what you said before about it. Safety features remain optional, but they can easily be gotten if one wants to pay for it. Some don't. Unimpressive reliability history, I think they have done quite good in safety recalls in the last two years. only two last year, one for a fuel filter and another for a power steering hose. So far this year, it's only been a seat belt re tractor . Honda has had five in the last two years. Last year it was transmissions and fuel pumps. This year it's been electrical, brakes and steering column.

    "I only hear how great the dodge/chrysler vans are here comeon guys show me one reviewer that says dodge/chrysler is the top minivan. All you have is your opinions."

    I have never said the Dodge was a great van. That comes from 99% of the Honda owners about the Ody. They are always cutting down the Dodge van. I am saying the Dodge is a very good van and even though the Ody is a hair faster, turns a few inches shorter, supposedly gets a little better mileage, it's got it's share of problems Dodge/Chryslers minivans don't have. Noise, wind, sliding doors,etc. The difference in problems between the two vans can easily be seen in the posts on 2005 Hondas and 2005 Dodge/Chryslers. Very, very few 2005 Dodge/Chrysler owners are complaining with problems with their vans and they've been out months longer than Honda's. But still Honda owners act like nothing goes wrong with their vans.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Safety features remain optional, but they can easily be gotten if one wants to pay for it

    No VSC can't get it no matter how much you pay. I personally like the safety for everyone, too bad it prices some out of the market!

    When you talk about resale values, have any of you guys ever heard of the laws of supply and demand? When you have an limited amount of product available (Honda Odyssey's) versus a large amount of product available (DC minivans).

    Well how does this explain the Accord and Camry resale values. They are the top selling cars but hold way more value than the Dodge Intepid, Ford Tarus, Saturn L series, or Chevy Malibu. Maybe there is a little more to it. YOU THINK!!! And resale value at the end is a good thing to have. I didn't have any at the end with my caravan and Intrepid.

    Even what you posted said it had roomy and luxurious interior. Far from what you said before about it.

    I like to post the whole review not pick and choose. Edmunds reviews in my opinion are a little short sighted. Here is what consumer reports has to say LOWS- Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls and coarse engines.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    towards American vehicles. For instance they rate the Honda Ody as better than average in reliability, even though everything about it is new. But several American cars that are new this year, they only rated them as new. How fair is that?

    This clown that rated the Dodge Caravan said it was noiser than the top rated vans. While almost every 2005 Dodge owner that has commented on their van, has bragged on how quiet it is. No wind noise or rattles like many Honda owners have complained of.

    He says the engine only puts out adequate performance, when several revewers I have posted, claimed it put out a strong performance and was only less than one second slower than the Honda in the quarter mile.

    Then he complains the Dodge hasn't got adjustable arm rests. But no one ever mentions that neither did Toyota or the Saturn. I have never had a car, van or truck with adjustible arm rests. But again, it was his way of belittling the Dodge.

    He complained of the controls being (busy). What the heck does busy mean?

    He said the Dodge rode well at low speeds but on the highway it was unsettling and floaty.

    Read what this one reviewer said about the ride of the Dodge and and what another said of the Honda.

    Ride quality is supple and well-controlled on the highway. The rack-and-pinion steering responds nicely and provides good feedback through the steering wheel. The Grand Caravan tracks true at highway speeds, so there's no need for constant, minor steering corrections. Indeed, the Dodge Grand Caravan offers superb driving dynamics. Grand Caravan rides more softly than an SUV, gliding over potholes rather than trying to beat them into submission. It's an excellent choice when transporting passengers on beat up freeways and bumpy urban streets.


    As on its passenger cars, Honda tuned that suspension tightly. The vocal engine, decent tire grip, and busy ride quality make it feel connected to the road, and the turning radius is nearly as tight as a sedan's. Like the Accord it's based on, the Odyssey gives the feeling that it can be tossed around corners a bit. Taking it up on the offer ruins the illusion, however, mostly because the capsizing feeling that comes with any aggressive turn reminds you of how high you're perched. That, plus too-slow steering, plus the Odyssey's not-so-mini measurements, make mountain runs a nervous affair. It's probably best to be content with the Odyssey's feel in the city, and best to keep it there

    This is from Edmonds,

    Instrumented test numbers aren't typically the first item of concern when discussing minivans, but we feel it's important to mention just how quick the T&C feels for a minivan. At the track, it broke the front tires loose when punched from a dead stop, and the automatic transmission delivered positive upshifts above 5,000 rpm. Shorter, tighter gear ratios would provide even quicker acceleration

    Does that sound like the engine is just adequate?

    Different drivers, different opinions.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    No VSC can't get it no matter how much you pay. I personally like the safety for everyone, too bad it prices some out of the market

    Yeah, even those who need a new Minivan and can't afford $24k for a minivan. Ohh wait, they can buy a new Dodge for less than $20k...ohh they may not have VSC but it would probably beat their old vehicle in many areas.

    Well how does this explain the Accord and Camry resale values. They are the top selling cars but hold way more value than the Dodge Intepid, Ford Tarus, Saturn L series, or Chevy Malibu. Maybe there is a little more to it. YOU THINK!!! And resale value at the end is a good thing to have. I didn't have any at the end with my caravan and Intrepid.

    Guys!!! All anyone wants to talk about is "resale values", true the japanese have higher resale but their initial prices are higher too. Someone posted they saved $5000 on their Dodge, then complained about resale after years of use. He probably now feels great paying about/above MSRP for a Honda though, justifies it, and feel great with his extra $$$ at the end of 5 years. I'd rather have the extra cash NOW to invest, use etc...especially since we're talking Minivans. I think GM is on to something with employee pricing for all. It'll make purchasing str8 forward, like buying a toaster (not to offend but that's what Minivans are to me!!)

    I like to post the whole review not pick and choose. Edmunds reviews in my opinion are a little short sighted. Here is what consumer reports has to say LOWS- Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls and coarse engines.

    Hmmm you picked and choosed and added from CR above. From CR March 2005:

    Highs - Interior Flexibility
    Lows - Seat comfort, Interior Trim Mat'l, some controls.

    You're picking "coarse engines" from main body I believe.

    Overall the DCX is "recommended" by CR. For the money, it's hard to beat. My opinion, I love my questionable interior mat'l...perfect for my situation of hauling kids and dogs, camping gear etc... The Honda wouldn't last a month in my household. For example, the backs of my driver/pass seats are hard plastic with hooks built in for grocery bags! Each indentured servant, Opps, Kid, gets to carrying a bag into the house after returning from shopping :) Ohh and the hard plastic takes a beating better than the soft backs of Honda/Toyota. I'm still trying to figure out how to use the hooks to tie the kids down in place, while traveling :P
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