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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    The numbers speak for themselves...

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-12-01-sales_x.htm

    "Toyota and Honda both have very strong brand equity that helps protect and shelter them from downturns in the industry."
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    .just look at a McDonald's happy meal sometime. You get electronic games for FREE!!! (made in China of course).

    That's really funny you should mention that. I was just playing with a fast-food electronic game yesterday with my granddaughter. It was some hard to read black blips that you could move around. Now I know where DC gets their Navigation...har har I kill me :P

    You don't even want to get me started on UAW. I'm not sure I even give GM/Ford a change. DC has a chance at least.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    I think it is difficult for drivers who live in the "no-snow" states to understand how treacherous it is to drive in snow, or when the snow melted and freeze again. VSC has saved my butt a few times and I was driving very slowly (<30mph). When a car slip, slide in snow w/o vsc or traction control, all you can do is feather the gas and try to steer the car out of the slide, which is easier said than done.
  • I need three new tires for my 01' T&C as the dealer replaced one before I picked it up in August, however my good tire is a T rated Uniroyal tiger paw touring one. However upon checking Uniroyal's website, they recommended a lesser speed rating as per the Chrysler's instruction which is 'S' rating. My local dealer can only get hankook tires in for me within my budget and they are 'T' Rated. I know the rating only apply to the speed and since i am no longer in mt 20s and have nth amount of kids, I stick to the 70m speed limit or below. Does any one know if this has any negative impact on the vehicle and secondly has anyone used hankook tires.

    opinions are welcome :shades:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    need three new tires for my 01' T&C as the dealer replaced one before I picked it up in August, however my good tire is a T rated Uniroyal tiger paw touring one. However upon checking Uniroyal's website, they recommended a lesser speed rating as per the Chrysler's instruction which is 'S' rating. My local dealer can only get hankook tires in for me within my budget and they are 'T'

    Not really the right place for this but there is no problem with going up in speed rating(actually it will improve driving dynamics)as long as the load rating is the same or better.

    look here it may have your tire!
    link title
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    I just learned that the 3.3L version of Dodge Grand Caravann is a Flex Fuel version and can run both on Ethanol E85 and Regular Gas, I have a 2004 model, to my surprise my Fuel door confirms that.
    I started using Ethanol since last month, its better than Hybrid since it does not use regular gas (No pollution), Ethanol is bio degradable, reduces our Oil dependance, and is cheaper than gas I am filling up for $1.85/gallon.
    Ethanol is made from Corn and Sugar.
    Ethanol
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    I started using Ethanol since last month, its better than Hybrid since it does not use regular gas (No pollution),

    It's only 85% ethonol and 15% petrol(gas) as far as pollution you should really check your facts before making that statement. While it does have a small advantage in CO(carbon monoxide) exhaust and NO(nitric oxide) emmissions it has a higher HC(hydrocarbon exhaust)it also reduces the MPG by about 24% even in FFV's.

    Look at the University of MIchigan Study link at the bottom!
    link title


    Ethanol is bio degradable, reduces our Oil dependance, and is cheaper than gas I am filling up for $1.85/gallon.

    It will reduce our Oil dependance but there are only about 400 pumps in the whole country. :cry: It may be cheaper but it gets less MPG. ;)

    Also cars that run this type fuel have more deposit buildups in the engine due to higher HC contents.

    Here is the data from e85fuel.com

    Use of E85 (85% ethanol and 15% gasoline by volume) achieves:
    &#149; 73&#150;75% reduction in petroleum use,
    &#149; 14&#150;19% reduction in GHG emissions, and
    &#149; 34&#150;35% reduction in fossil energy use.

    So if you look at epa web site the emissions is still way more than the new Odyssey. It only has a 14-19% reduction in greenhouse gas but more HC output.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Quick!!! Someone pinch me!!! I'm agreeing 100% with Socalawd!!!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Quick!!! Someone pinch me!!! I'm agreeing 100% with Socalawd!!!!

    Thats because I'm so reasonable!! NO it's because its about E85 and not vans. ;) I do wish that it was more available and more cars used it its always nice to have a choice!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Ethanol is bio degradable, reduces our Oil dependance, and is cheaper than gas I am filling up for $1.85/gallon.

    I just filled up with GASOLINE for 1.94 in my LEV 244 horsepower vehicle.
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    You also get a $2000 tax credit in 2006,if you put this to use in 2005 you are eligible for a $2000 deduction
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    Dodge Caravan 2WD
    city/HWY*Cost*(Greenhouse tons/yr)
    Gas**19**26**$1535**8.6
    E85**13**17**$2142**7.2 ($2000 tax credit)
    Honda Odyssey 2WD VCM,
    Gas**20**28**$1403**8.3
    Honda Odyssey 2WD
    Gas**19**25**$1535**8.9

    Is 7.2 smaller than 8.9
    There are now 7 E85 stations where I live and its not a problem for me to fill it up.
    Hybrid - Still uses gas
    Oil rich kingdoms get rich of that money
    and Exxon executives
    E85 helps farmers who grow Corn
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    If Honda can develop a Flex Fuel Odyssey, we will read that flex fuel is the best thing in minivans since the "Magic Seat". ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    If Honda can develop a Flex Fuel Odyssey, we will read that flex fuel is the best thing in minivans since the "Magic Seat".

    Kind of like the flex-fuel Taurus and Ranger that debuted in the 1990s?
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Dodge Caravan 2WD
    city/HWY*Cost*(Greenhouse tons/yr)
    Gas**19**26**$1535**8.6
    E85**13**17**$2142**7.2 ($2000 tax credit)
    Honda Odyssey 2WD VCM,
    Gas**20**28**$1403**8.3
    Honda Odyssey 2WD
    Gas**19**25**$1535**8.9

    Is 7.2 smaller than 8.9


    Where did you get this info. The greenhouse gas scores for odyssey are a 6 and for ethanol 3.3l it's a 4. Look here for Ethanol 3.3l
    http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-DODGE-Caravan-06.htm
    Wow look at that gas milage 13/19 compared to 17/26 for regular gas. Wow it looks like no bargain!
    Here's the odyssey
    http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-HONDA-Odyssey-06.htm

    There are now 7 E85 stations where I live and its not a problem for me to fill it up.
    Hybrid - Still uses gas
    Oil rich kingdoms get rich of that money
    and Exxon executives
    E85 helps farmers who grow Corn


    15% is still petrol and guess what alot of Ethanol is imported(its easier to get from sugar cane than corn)! Most of the stuff that comes from here is goverment subsidized and don't get me started on that kind of stuff. There are NO gas stations where I live CA. It is funny that you went from no pollution to 7.2 is better than 8.3!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    If Honda can develop a Flex Fuel Odyssey, we will read that flex fuel is the best thing in minivans since the "Magic Seat".

    Hey find me a E85 gas station! If you can't get it it's useless. BTW I had a FFV for 50 months. ;)

    Hey there's 3 stations in cali. Check this web site out to find a station near you!But only one in El Cajon is public! :cry:

    http://afdcmap.nrel.gov/locator/LocatePane.asp

    I do think CA should get away from MTBE and go to a E10. Which would run in our present cars.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    As the owner of a 2005 Dodge GC, let me say this. If money were no object and I didn't haul around a bunch of young kids, I think the Ody would be a great choice. It's much nicer inside and it is dependable.

    But I think if money is a factor and you have young kids, you can't go wrong with the Dodge/Chrysler. Even though the inside is not quite as nice as the Ody, it is more kid proof and just as dependable. Plus you have two great storage compartments that will hold gobs of toys, diaper bags or whatever, and still keep your van looking neat and clean. Also with the price difference between the two, your able to get the extras that make your van that much nicer to live with. Like power rear hatch, DVD player, over head computer and still have the 7/70 extended warrantee for peace of mind.

    I have always looked at the two vans as having different jobs. I see the Honda as a great looking, dependable people hauler. I see the Dodge/Chrysler as a great family van. Perfect for hauling kids and all their stuff, or loading it down at Home Depot.

    I think when comparing the two vans to buy, you need to ask yourself what your going to use it for.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    But I think if money is a factor and you have young kids, you can't go wrong with the Dodge/Chrysler. Even though the inside is not quite as nice as the Ody, it is more kid proof and just as dependable. Plus you have two great storage compartments that will hold gobs of toys, diaper bags or whatever, and still keep your van looking neat and clean.

    I think the DGC is a good value for the money and vans are more useful/safer(from driver death perspective) than SUV and most cars. I don't really think dependability should be a issue with ethier van.

    . I see the Honda as a great looking, dependable people hauler. I see the Dodge/Chrysler as a great family van. Perfect for hauling kids and all their stuff, or loading it down at Home Depot.

    I liked some of the safety gear and it was more comfortable for me in the Honda.

    I think when comparing the two vans to buy, you need to ask yourself what your going to use it for.

    I won't be using my honda for Home depot runs. I got a 6 year old Subie wagon and my Bro's truck for that! But if you want something for all that stuff and care very little about VSC. The DGC is a great choice. BTW marine good to see ya back in the forum!
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Thanks for the welcome back socalawd.

    I had a nice club cab truck, but found it lacking, picking up three grandkids from school. When stow-n-go came out, I figured I could haul with the Dodge van, almost all the stuff I was hauling in my truck. Plus it gave me so much more room for the kids than what I had with the truck. Keeping one seat stowed, seemed to give me lots of room to set stuff in the side door, get the kids in and out fast and still have one big covered storage compartment under the other seat that I could hide stuff, like battery cables, tools, flashlight,can of instant flat and a furnitue pad. In the truck, all that layed out in the open, behind the front seat.

    I like the Ody a lot and think the inside looks just beautiful. But I can just about imagine how it would look two or three years down the road with those kids and the stuff I haul. Hard plastic can take a beating and still look new if not skuffed. Cloth looks nicer but won't take a beating. For me, seats that fold flat is much nicer than having to lift them out. Which is why I never bought a minivan before.I have helped take my brother's seats out on his 2002 minivan and didn't like it one bit. They were really heavy.

    I would have liked to have kepted the truck but my wife won't drive it and she won't even try and drive the minivan. Says they're both to big, which is why our second vehicle is a Civic.

    Anyway, that's the reason I chose the Dodge over the Ody.I needed a family friendly minivan and not a nice people hauler.
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    Ethanol is 30cents cheeper per gallon, that compensates for low Mileage and you get a $2000 tax credit, do your math.
    Yes, I stand corrected - Less Pollution
    E85 Caravan 7.2 Tons of Greenhouse gases yer pear
    Honda 8.9 Tons of Greenhouse gases per year
    and the information is on
    Fuel Ecomony
    image
    image
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Two things here:

    1. Your math still doesn't work if you use the EPA numbers listed above over 15,000 miles AND assume your $.30/gallon number is correct. At $1.65 vs $1.95 (current here) you're still spending $375 more per year on E85.

    2. The Caravan does not qualify for the clean fuel vehicle deduction. You can deduct the incremental cost of ADDING clean-fuel equipment to your vehicle (there's no additional cost for flex-fuel vehicles sold by Dodge, Chevy, Ford, etc.). If they charged extra for the flex-fuel engine, then you could take the deduction for the amount, upt $2,000. Right now, there are only five vehicles that qualify for the deduction because Honda/Toyota/Ford has had them certified by the IRS that they have $2,000 in incremental cost in their selling price.

    Here's a linky for you....http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=107766,00.html

    Pay attention to the next to last paragraph.
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    I call IRS last month, they confirmed me that Ethanol vehicles are clean Fuel Vehicles and anyone who buys a Ethanol Flex Fuel Vehicle is eligible for the tax break.

    Tax break
    Consumers purchasing a new clean-fuel vehicle by the end of 2005 may be eligible for a one-time "Clean-Fuel" vehicle tax deduction of up to $2,000! This also applies to gasoline-electric hybrids.

    NOTICE: New legislation has changed the tax incentives for clean-fuel vehicles. Clean-fuel vehicles placed in service by December 31, 2005 are still eligible for the tax incentives described on this page. Those placed in service after this date will no longer be eligible for these deductions but may be eligible for a federal income tax credit under new legislation. Watch this page for updated tax credit information as it becomes available.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What are clean-fuel vehicles?
    The U.S. federal tax code defines "clean-fuel" vehicles as motor vehicles designed to be propelled by one of the following fuels:

    Natural gas
    Liquified natural gas (LNG)
    Liquified petroleum gas (LPG)
    Hydrogen
    Electricity (e.g., some gasoline/electric hybrids)
    Any other fuel that is at least 85% alcohol or ether (e.g., E85)

    Refer to IRS publication 535
    http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch12.html#d0e10244
    Tax laws have changed, a new law was just signed by Bush, but the tax incentives are better in 2006 than in 2005
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Your IRS link pretty much sums up what I said above. Clean fuel vehicles are either one of the certified hybrids, or a vehicle that has had the equipment added. You can deduct the cost of this added equipment. The current flex-fuel vehicle have no additional cost to you, the consumer/taxpayer and therefore you have no expenses to deduct.

    From your link:

    The deduction is equal to the cost of the vehicle's engine, the equipment used to store or deliver the fuel, and the equipment used to exhaust combusted gases, up to a maximum of $2,000 for vehicles places in service by the end of 2005.

    For vehicles that may be propelled by both a clean-burning fuel and any other fuel, the deduction is limited to the additional cost of permitting the use of the clean-burning fuel, with the same maximum deductions detailed above.


    If you were to take a normal old Caravan/Odyssey and pay someone (tons of money) to convert it to run on E85, then you could take the deduction, upto $2,000 currently.

    Calling the IRS for tax advice is entertaining at best. If you recorded the conversation and documented the call, you might have a chance in an audit situation. Otherwise, the information they give out is usually worth what you pay for it. A little research and reading will give you far more accurate information, as well as documentation to back it up. I had a flex-fuel Chevy Tahoe. Even with the law changes it's not deductible. Plus it was a horrible vehicle to drive on E85. Most of the changes to the tax law for next year gave credits to producers of ethanol/bio type fuels. Bio-diesel has more potential than E85 IMHO.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Ethanol is 30cents cheeper per gallon, that compensates for low Mileage and you get a $2000 tax credit, do your math.
    Yes, I stand corrected - Less Pollution
    E85 Caravan 7.2 Tons of Greenhouse gases yer pear
    Honda 8.9 Tons of Greenhouse gases per year
    and the information is on


    There are other pollutants then greenhouse gases HC are higher with E85. Also the gas is being subsidized by you and me so it costs everyone. Will the government ever stop any program?? BTW the EXL and higher is 8.3 not 8.9. That accounts for probably 40% of sales. E10 reduces emmision(by 20-30%/that would make the ody a 6-7 tons per year) and some other pollutant that seems like a better deal. And I can run my car on it today!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    As the owner of a 2005 Dodge GC, let me say this. If money were no object and I didn't haul around a bunch of young kids, I think the Ody would be a great choice. It's much nicer inside and it is dependable.

    But I think if money is a factor and you have young kids, you can't go wrong with the Dodge/Chrysler. Even though the inside is not quite as nice as the Ody, it is more kid proof and just as dependable


    How is the DCX more kid proof? :)
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Because DC minivans have more hard plastic where the Odd has cloth. My 2002 T&C LX has cloth on the back of the front seats while 2002 GC Sport has hard plastic. The cloth would get dirty from kid's dirty feet and difficult to clean while the hard plastic would easily wash off with a damp cloth. ;)
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Because DC minivans have more hard plastic where the Odd has cloth. My 2002 T&C LX has cloth on the back of the front seats while 2002 GC Sport has hard plastic. The cloth would get dirty from kid's dirty feet and difficult to clean while the hard plastic would easily wash off with a damp cloth.

    Mine is leather I think the backs are some sort of simulated leather. Just detailed it for thr first time a few weeks ago. Bought the end of May. It was a piece of cake!! I'm not really a fan of hard plastic, just doesn't make me scream now that looks good!
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Kids and the back of car seats just don't mix. :cry:
    I will often take my 4 year olds shoes off whenever I put him in our van, because try as he might...he just can't keep those little feet off. I also keep that area well reinforced with fabric protection. Perhaps some manufacturer option that would allow an insert or pull down device to keep the back seat fabric in good condition?
    Would be a good idea for minivan owners....no?

    Leather is much easier to clean for spills and such...but wouldn't it fade/wear down over a period of time with frequent sneaker and shoe kicks? :sick:
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    Check this link out, you can compare fuel properties of E85 and Regular Gas
    There is no information to state that E85 has other greenhouse gases
    Fuel properties

    Ethanol (E85)
    E-85 vehicles can demonstrate a 25% reduction in ozone-forming emissions compared to reformulated gasoline.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Almost all hard plastic surfaces scuff very easily when kicked by shoes...scuffs are just as difficult to remove as dirt, right? Just my opinion, not necessarily true for all fabrics. Seems to me, those with kids should buy the leather, or do what my parents did when I was in a carseat: Line the surfaces that I would touch with a bath/beach towel. When they went out with friends where they drove, my folks would just fold up the towels and put them in the trunk. Pretty easy solution for all vans/cars!
This discussion has been closed.