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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    But the Durango and Aspen are both better looking than the the MDX/Pilot. The MDX is ok but the Pilot is sooooooo generic/plain vanilla looking. Honda has the worst exterior styling designers/engineers.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Why bother with a rebadge if you aren't going to make it worthwhile? At least the Pilot/MDX looks are MUCH different, inside and out.

    From what I saw, the interior of the Aspen is much more upscale. Aspen Interior. Real wood trim/steering wheel, 2 row heated seats etc.. Its suppose to be much quieter, 2 optional 4 wheel drive systems (not just AWD). It's a true SUV, something that could pull the Airstream I dream of owning someday :)

    Also, in some areas of the country, maybe there's only a Chrysler dealership and up until now couldn't offer a 4WD SUV.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Yes you have said it many times but it seems to me if 11,000 posts for prices paid then they know about this site. As for the Dodge I look for comparitive prices for all my cars before I buy. I'm just not gonna go into a DCX dealer and say what can you do for me.

    How many more DCX dealers are there than Honda dealers? Isn't DCX the leader in Minivans, having built them for over 20 years and as such are a well known commodity? For years when you said "Minivan" all one thought of was Chrysler.

    Ody is consistantly a top 10 research car DCX vans not in the top 100. Again, it's less of a commodity, more of an unknown, and it's easier to stop by a DCX dealer for many people. You've got over 20 years of Minivan experience for DCX vs 7 for Honda?

    BTW how many people do you know that say they flew somewhere to get the Ody since last summer(6 months) I bet you can't state too many if any at all thats just more propaganda. As the greatest president once said "There you go again" putting words in my mouth. I have seen sooo many desperate Ody buyers emailing or calling numerous dealerships frantically for a "Deal". I don't believe I stated people were flying around to buy them.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Well, I'd have to run a report from the system to give you a current number, but I can tell you we don't usually run anything past five years or 85,000 miles because of resale anyways. There are exceptions. For example, right now we're experiencing a high rate of premature paint and rust-through on Ventures, so some of these are being wholesaled early.

    Typically on mini-vans we experience transmission rebuilds after the 45-50,000 mile mark. That seems to depend on the make, the geographic area, and sometimes the driver. In recent years the Windstars are usually the first to require a rebuild, while the Chryslers seemed to be the first to require either an adjustment or TCM reflash. GMs have usually been the most problem free initially but just seem to crumble all of a sudden, and when they break they seem to require the most expensive additional repairs (sun gears, input shafts, clutch packs, etc.).

    When you buy a thousand vehicles of any make you're going to see some transmission infant mortality. In the early '90s Chrysler mini-vans seemed more prone to this than Ford or GM. But even in those years the Chrysler versions usually required the least amount of money to fix...assuming you had a competent and qualified servicer.

    After experiencing a severe failure rate of transmissions in the late seventies and early eighties on GM cars, we adopted a mandatory transmission maintenance program that required fluid and filter changes at 30,000 miles. We've since gone to 25,000 miles on mini-vans. On Chryslers we require the use of the specified ATF (ATF+4). I'm pretty sure that I won't be violating any contract agreement here, but failure rates on GM cars were at one time over 50%. Nowadays across all makes and models it's at or near the national average, about 7%. Our mini-vans have always been higher.

    We only have a handful of non-Chrysler, Ford, or GM cars, or mini-vans. All of our light, medium, or heavy trucks are of native manufacture. We have Hondas in the Marysville, Ohio area because we service our equipment there, four Odys to be exact at last count.

    Most native Asian car companies do just about everything they can to discourage fleet sales. In fact, I can only think of Nissan and Toyota that have a fleet purchase program. As you've noted, they don't discount and the warranties are usually less. Historically they've been more stringent with certified required service while GM, Ford and Chrysler have not. And they don't ever seem to be in a negotiating mood, either. Because of pricing, no matter how much more reliable they are it generally costs more to go Asian.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,232
    Interesting. Thanks for the info. A little off-topic, but I always enjoyed going over to the fleet guys and sifting through data. They hated me because I was always looking for savings plans and they just wanted the status-quo. We had a much different service use than your company, as we were putting 30k-40k miles on them a year. 4 years/120k miles was the average service life. The miles didn't hurt the value all that much. A tranny rebuild was averaging $1200 at the time and wasn't adding a penny to the resale value so adjusting to get out before a rebuild saved tons. Plus we could usually squeeze them out the door with barely legal rubber :P
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Most of our fleet cars and mini-vans are leased. GE being the primary paper holder, and have a two year minimum. Older lease agreements made it more cost effective to bail out when vehicles gathered too many miles - around 50K was the top stop at the end of two years - we had a condition clause that made it better for us to ensure good vehicle condition at the end of term. But things have changed over the years and we are opting to buy more rather than lease.

    Out light duty maintenance vehicles (half-ton trucks and vans) and most of our mediums are now owned or on long term lease. Our heavy trucks are leased (Freightliners, Sterlings, older Top Kicks, etc.) and we have a number of private cab owners that pull our trailers. We were a long time GM LD truck fleet until we got fed up with poor reliability and costly repairs. Converted to F150s in '95 for 4x2s and Dodge for 4x4s. Our rotation buy in 2003 and 2004 were RAMs exclusively. Our 2005 buy is F150s, but they have been much worse than the previous generation and we've picked up a couple of new Chevys this year.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    How many more DCX dealers are there than Honda dealers? Isn't DCX the leader in Minivans, having built them for over 20 years and as such are a well known commodity? For years when you said "Minivan" all one thought of was Chrysler

    So how is buying a minivan different from buying a car?? But maybe thats why none posts here they have a local dealer to take care of all there problems.

    Again, it's less of a commodity, more of an unknown, and it's easier to stop by a DCX dealer for many people. You've got over 20 years of Minivan experience for DCX vs 7 for Honda?

    But then they'd come on the internet?? Not very convincing. I know lots of people are looking for Honda's.

    greatest president once said "There you go again" putting words in my mouth. I have seen sooo many desperate Ody buyers emailing or calling numerous dealerships frantically for a "Deal". I don't believe I stated people were flying around to buy them.

    No thats your job. It was the easiest car purchase I have ever had 4 emails and a price 200 over invoice. The worst Cerritos Dodge HIGH PRESSURE deal switchers!!!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Since the Odyssey folks asked for a separate forum for 2005+ Odyssey problems. Here are some numbers to ponder. Out of the first 65 posts, of 33 different posters 16 reported problems (Mostly minor) 16 out of 33 is 48%. and that is only for 2005+. Please note this IS a problems forum and you would expect problems real or imaginary to be posted.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    No thats your job. It was the easiest car purchase I have ever had 4 emails and a price 200 over invoice.

    Say anything you want but accusing me of saying something requires back up....I don't see anything, hey, maybe you can take something I said previously out of context. You're great of accusing others of doing what you do best yourself.

    Your personal experience might have been 4 emails, but there are many who have had the opposite happen, hence 11,000 posting of people trying to buy an Ody.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    ummm, maybe they're smart to see what other people are paying so they don't get hosed at the dealership? Isn't that what the prices paid forums are about? I did one email offer to my local dealer and paid invoice on my ody after i saw what others were paying. It worked out great for me and I have edmunds.com to thank for.

    OTOH, if I were buying a DC van I would find the prices paid forum pretty much useless since there were virtually no postings for such a high volume vehicle.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,232
    It's really just supply/demand. DC dealers advertise their vehicles every day for invoice less rebates so everybody knows how much they can get one for. Our local Honda dealer rarely if ever puts an ad that includes an Odyssey and its never priced anywhere near invoice. Of course, if you go in and bargain you can get them for that price but they aren't going to cut their throats in the ads. I suppose if demand ever dries up they might, but I doubt Honda would let that happen. They control inventory very well, which benefits them as well as the dealers. Would you rather make $500 on 100 vehicles or $2,000 on 30?
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Chrysler dealers would be just as greedy with the T&C or GC as Honda dealers are with the Odyssey if they had a shortage. In fact, Chrysler dealers ARE GREEDY when they have a limited supply, high demand vehicle. No reason for Honda to offer discounts on the Odyssey. :blush:
    Example I saw Tuesday when I had my 02 T&C LX serviced: 2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8 with 6.1L V8 Hemi had MSRP of $ 46,745 with an additional sticker of " $ 10,000 Market Adjustment". Total bottom line $ 56,475 (included $ 2,100 Gas Guzzler Tax since EPA ratings are 14 City 20 Highway).
    Chrysler dealers did the same thing with the Plymouth Prowler and Chrysler Prowler and a lesser "Market Adjustment" with the PT Cruiser for the first year or so. :cry:
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Chrysler Group conducted an extensive survey to gauge response to Stow ‘n Go. Participants had the opportunity to compare Stow ‘n Go against every competitor in the market.

    Overall, Stow ‘n Go scored six times higher than seating systems in Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna. In the category of flexibility, Stow ‘n Go scored eight times higher than Honda Odyssey and four and one-half times higher than Toyota Sienna. And in the category of purchase consideration, Stow ‘n Go scored 50 percent higher than Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    The $10k is to make up for the thin profit margin they have for their best sellers :D

    And that srt8 price is steep. If I have the urge of hearing a big V8 rumble under my hood and painting black strips on pavements, I would head over to the pontiac store and get myself a 06 gto with 6sp, and fork over the change to my wife so I'll never hear a complain from her about my decision :D
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    if that is so, then there should not be any money on the hood to sell these great products? Or the rest of the package is really, really bad?
  • petras2petras2 Posts: 104
    we checked out the grand caravan with stow and go and found those seats much less comfortable than the old captain' seats in our 96' caravan...also interior on the 06' sxt had a cheaper feel to it than the 96'..decided to get a base 06' odyssey for about 2k more and so far no regrets...
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Chrysler did NOT contact me on Stow 'N Go. I prefer the 2nd and 3rd row seats of my 2002 T&C LX and feel the interior of the GC SXT looks and feels cheaper than my bottom of the line T&C LX. However, the driver's seat and front passenger seat of 2006 GC SXT is more comfortable.
    Agree that the 2nd row Stow'N Go is a nice feature for some people but we also do NOT like the 3rd row seat of Stow 'N Go DC minivans. Our daughter who goes on trips with us feels the 2nd row armrests of Stow 'N Go minivans are too narrow and uncomfortable...and the 3rd row seat is not comfortable.
    I test drove a 2005 GC SXT in Feb 2004 before we bought our used 2002 T&C LX. I have test driven many Odysseys and one Sienna. Although the Odd EX interior was nicer looking than the GC SXT, neither the GC SXT or Odyssey EX interior was as attractive to my wife and I as the Sienna LE and neither performed as well. (A 2006 GC SXT would have cost less and a 2006 Odd EX would have cost more than our new 2006 Sienna LE).
    The 2006 Odd LX has too few comfort and convenience features for us to consider. ;)
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    As you so aptly point out, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We test drove a Sienna XLE with cloth interior and found the inside very nice but I thought the flaps covering the LATCH attachments in the rear seats to be a bit tacky. We also did not like the choppy ride of the Sienna when compared to the Odyssey. The Sienna, to us, appeared to bob up and down over the slightest bumps in the road. The Odyssey is much different riding, more sporty. It all comes down to personal choice.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    For the past 15 yrs of MV ownership, I can count the number of times I have had to remove the second row seats in the less than the number of fingers in one hand.

    In my almost 2 yr old Ody, I never removed the second row seats - NADA!

    So S & G is at the lowest pecking order of features compared to superior mechanical/driving performance. Now if there are 2 MVs with identical mechanical/driving performance, then S & G may become more attractive for the next 15 YEARS when statistically I may have to remove the second row seats for up to 5 times!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    My S&G seats have been used about 12 times in the past year. With Camping and Road Trips with friends, it's a must have for me.

    My parents keep the 2nd row seats out of their Sienna all the time. They like to be able to just toss bags in from the side and when they need to carry people, being in the 3rd seat gives them plenty of space.

    We're seeing more and more flexibility in seating from the OEMs. You may not think you need it, but you'll be glad you do someday when you're shopping and buy something, say at a garage sale, you weren't expecting to be hauling home. S&G is a natural for a do anything vehicle like a Minivan. Bet everyone, that in 5 years, anyone playing in minivan market will have a version and we'll be whining on this board "My minivan's seats are more comfortable and easier to use than your's". Days of hauling seats out of a minivan and trying to find a place to store em are history.
  • Geez ... Dont you help family/friends transport stuff or buy furniture/large items? I have stowed both rows in my van a dozen times in a year.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    that's for family/friends who owns a truck, plus they don't mind the wear and tear on the bed liner
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,232
    I've never had a need to fold the 2nd row either. I had a 40" TV in there awhile back, no probs with the 2nd row in place. Of course, I have three pickups at my disposal so the van isn't my ideal utility vehicle anyway.

    I'd still never discount the sto-n-go. As long as it's equally comfortable, I'd certainly never say I'd WOULDN'T want it. I have no doubt there are people that wanted/needed this feature and DC is selling vans because of it. 8 passenger seating was VERY high on my list though.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Sometimes one or both sides of the 50/50 fold and fumble 3rd row, sometimes one or both 2nd row seats, sometimes the right side middle bucket and right side rear 50/50 fold and tumble.
    These seats are VERY easily removed and replaced and are on wheels that make them easily moved inside or outside of our van.
    The 2nd row and 3rd row seats of the 2002 T&C are as comfortable as any minivan 2nd or 3d row seats...and more comfortable than most other brands. ;)
    DC minivans have the BEST controls for stereo and heater/vent/air conditioning unless one gets features that we don't have and the controls are compromised as in the previous generation Odysseys with NAV where they are very confusing. :sick:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    DC minivans have the BEST controls for stereo and heater/vent/air conditioning unless one gets features that we don't have and the controls are compromised as in the previous generation Odysseys with NAV where they are very confusing.

    We RARELY needed to adjust more than the temperature number on our Auto Climate control in our Ody. The system knew what we wanted. Heat came out through the floor and cool air through the dashboard vents (could be easily overridden by pushing one button, which we rarely did). For the NAV-equipped 99-04 Odys, adjusting the temparature involved pushing one button, either the UP or DOWN temperature button. Doesen't get more simple than that. It automatically put heat on the floor (so as not to make it stuffy up high, where heat rises), and cool air out the top (so your toes can stay cozy). I'll concede that, if you are someone that doesen't like to utilize the advantages of Auto Climate Control, the NAVI equipped Ody was more complicated than the standard Auto Climate Control.

    For example, my aunt who now drives the 2005 I spoke of before. She always has the fan blowing air out the top vents, regardless of temperature. In our van, the temperature was usually set on 68 FULL AUTO. All we ever adjusted was the knob for temperature (occasionally set lower or higher, depending on season.

    Do the Chryslers still use only 4-disc changers for CD-players (I know they used to) or have they moved up to 6-disc now?
  • fred222fred222 Posts: 200
    The Sienna, to us, appeared to bob up and down over the slightest bumps in the road. The Odyssey is much different riding, more sporty. It all comes down to personal choice.
    It is interesting that most people and reviewers say that the Sienna is smoother that the Odyssey. In the Odyssey you probably feel the bump a little more, but as artgpo says the Odyssey does not "bob" as much.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Don't know as I would prefer the Chrysler system of one CD at a time with Cassette player instead of the 6 -in-dash CD changer with MP3 of the 2006 Sienna LE? I considered only the base 2006 GC SXT that does not have a CD changer. ;)
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,232
    I believe the upper-end DC models do have a 6-disc changer, although I think you have to use that for your NAV and RES DVD's. At least that's the way it looked when I was comparing '05 models last year.

    The Ody has 6-disc changer (hidden behind NAV screen if you have the NAV), a seperate DVD player for the RES below the HVAC controls, and another DVD player mounted under the drivers seat for the NAV. You can add a cassette or MP3 player if you don't have the RES. The RES DVD takes up the cassette/mp3 slot. Confused yet?? :P
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    I drove an '03 Silhouette for three years. I drove to the Toyota dealer in that van then got into and drove a Sienna. The difference was immediately apparent. The Sienna pitched up and down although the ride was smooth. Both the Olds and Honda vans were stiffer and did not have that pitching motion. My wife is no auto enthusiast but the pitching was the first thing she talked about after we drove off in the Sienna. The Sienna was quieter than the Odyssey. Hondas seem to be noisier than the competition across product lines. Last April we shopped for a new car for my wife. The first thing we drove was the CR-V, a very sweet car. We drove to the nearest Hyundai dealer, about 18 miles away and the Honda was rather noisy at 70 mph+, Both the Tucson and Sportage were much quieter, a deciding factor in her purchase.

    Like I said, all a matter of personal preference.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    A large truck is also characterized by having no up and down pitching and a firm ride. ;)
This discussion has been closed.