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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    2005 Odyssey releases 20.8 - 25.0 Pounds smog-forming pollution per 15000 miles against 12.3 - 12.9 Pounds for Chrysler T&C.
    You can check this fact in Edmunds, www.honda.com or www.chrysler.com.

    Should an environmentally and socially responsible consumer purchase a Honda (Import) when there is a better performing and safe domestic alternative?

    Should consumers be socially responsible?

    2005 Chrysler T&C Touring and Honda Odyssey some key facts.

    2005 T&C 2005 Odyssey
    Safety
    ********
    NHTSA
    Crash test
    Front *************5 Stars 5 Stars
    Side**************5 Stars 5 Stars ( with a safety concern, Door popped out )
    IIHS**************Not tested Good

    Quality
    **********
    JDPower
    Initial****************2 Stars 4 Stars
    Longterm***********3 Stars 3 Stars

    Warranty************3/36K 7/70K

    Price
    *********
    Edmunds
    TMV **************26K 24K

    Resale
    Value
    ******
    ALG
    5 Year
    Lost
    Value***************17K 14K

    They both handle very well , Honda has VSA and Chrysler does not.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Of course, you realize the A580 transmission used behind the Charger/Magnum/300 Hemi is almost three times heavier than most FWD transmissions.

    Actually, in the near future Chrysler will be introducing a new FWD transmission that will be more than competitive, especially in their mini-vans.

    Dusty
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Please provide more information before I defect to the Odyssey or Sienna. :P
    The content of DC minivans was more important to me than the higher performance of the Odyssey or Sienna...BUT, with DC deleting nice features while Honda and Toyota are adding nice features, it makes the choice of a DC minivan less appealing. :cry:
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I can tell you that it will be based on the very successful 545RFE, have three full planetary gear sets and more than five speeds.

    Not sure when you're going to be in the market, but I don't think their new transmission will be available until '07.

    Dusty
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Thanks. Are those specifications similar to the new Mercedes 7 speed AT? ;)
    How many planetary gear sets do the current DC minivan 4 speed AT have? What about the Odyssey and Sienna?

    Since the 2005 DC minivans with Stow-N Go were released late January or early February 2004, can we expect the new 2007 DC minivan availability in about 6 months? :confuse:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    2005 Odyssey releases 20.8 - 25.0 Pounds smog-forming pollution per 15000 miles against 12.3 - 12.9 Pounds for Chrysler T&C.
    You can check this fact in Edmunds, www.honda.com or www.chrysler.com.

    Should an environmentally and socially responsible consumer purchase a Honda (Import) when there is a better performing and safe domestic alternative?

    Should consumers be socially responsible? 2005 Odyssey releases 20.8 - 25.0 Pounds smog-forming pollution per 15000 miles against 12.3 - 12.9 Pounds for Chrysler T&C.
    You can check this fact in Edmunds, www.honda.com or www.chrysler.com.

    Should an environmentally and socially responsible consumer purchase a Honda (Import) when there is a better performing and safe domestic alternative?

    Should consumers be socially responsible?


    Please look at green vehicle guide
    link title

    Honda is the one on top(best rated). Then go look at the Dodge 3.8L and the 2.4l.

    Also the honda is built in Alabama. The Dodge is mostly built in Windsor Canada with some built is St. Loius. Honda is a japanese company. DCX is a german owned company! Actually they are both public companies so I'm not sure who owns them LOL. Car companies have truely gone global.

    IIHS**************Not tested Good


    Dodge scored Marginal in 2001 the car has not been totally redone. The tested it 3 times to get it that high. The first time they tested it the fuel tank leaked at the neck(That was a early 2001 model) They fixed it(nofix for my early model) and retested. Until they retest I'm go with the old score!

    Warranty************3/36K 7/70K

    Only 7/70K on powertrain. 3/36/bumper to bumper like the honda! 2006 will be just like the honda.

    ALG
    5 Year
    Lost
    Value***************17K 14K


    These numbers are cooked! Many factors are involved! So you can make it look like you want!

    They both handle very well , Honda has VSA and Chrysler does not.

    They have different handling styles(can I say that)or is it just opinion. Test drive them both is the best way. Take a nice long one too and try to go over the same area's. In some auto parks you can test drive em back to back on the same roads.
    And Honda has standard side airbags for with head protection for all rows. The dodge has a kneeblocker airbag standard on LWB models. Enjoy!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    REMEMBER the 2005 Odyssey door flew open in one crash test. :sick:
    Just shows that no vehicle is yet perfect. ;)
    I think DC is stupid if they change the powertrain warranty to 3/36,000 as with the rest of the vehicle and also with the Odyssey. :sick:
    The Sienna has a 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty and the Sedona has a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. The Sienna has always been perceived to be one of the most reliable vehicles and the Sedona is earning a good reputation. :shades:
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,231
    The Dodge warranty also has a $100 deductible. But it's on the record, the 7/70 is gone after 2005. I've used it once on my '03 Ram 3500 for u-joints. It may or may-not be a selling point. I won't keep a minivan long enough to need anything more than the 3/36. It didn't effect my truck purchase, as I was buying the Dodge regardless. I imagine it helps DC in the cars/vans which the general public perceives as having faulty transmissions. The Hondas have had tranny issues as well, but with Honda publicly offering warranty repairs to high miles (was it 90k?) the public perception has been better. I don't think folks have a problem if a tranny is defective and grenades at 70k miles if the manufacturer stands behind it. I have a nephew that I've personally helped pay to fix his Neon transmission twice now . Not acceptable on a car with less than 70k miles. $2,000 put into a car worth maybe $4500 on a really good day....

    Back when my family owned a Dodge dealership, we could get warranty to cover repairs sometimes into the 100k mile range. I don't know if the dealers are just more greedy now (we'd have to eat some labor cost) or what, but I couldn't get any of the local dealers to even consider fixing his transmission, the first time at 50k miles. I remember our service manager getting a factory reman transmission for a lady's Caravan at 100k miles. We even made a little money on the deal. Today, the dealers just say $3500 please!
  • hraohrao Posts: 78
    socalawd; I am not saying you should be socially responsible, Honda brand may be green but not Odyssey.
    Chrysler is a US automaker, no matter how much you wanna argue.
    They create more US jobs than Honda.
    They contribute more to US ecomony then Honda.
    They are socially more responsible than Honda ( they are many social programs to help fight AIDS and disasters )
    They share profits with their US workers
    They have much bigger supply base in US than Honda, they supply base creates jobs in turn.
    Most of their vehicles are built in NAFTA ( CAN AND US , you cannot differentiate )

    Buying a import is not socially responsible and is not patriotic.

    2005 Chrysler Minivan is totally redesiged.
    2005 Honda Odyssey has more recalls then 2005 T&C, check NHTSA website.
    2005 Honda odyssey has more customer compaints as a percentage of sales than Chrysler.
    Honda never invented anything original, they always copy ( imposters )
    Chrysler created the first 4X4 (Jeep ) , first Minivan, first rear wheel drive, their are 15 minivan first including dual sliding door.

    US is loosing competitive edge in the world market, because consumers are not socially responsible . buying all Chinese made products.

    Sorry to be so, blut, I do not mean to pick up a fight with you. Really bothered by the loss of so many US manufacturing jobs.

    I do not own a dealership and I am not trying to sell anything.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,231
    2005 Odyssey releases 20.8 - 25.0 Pounds smog-forming pollution per 15000 miles against 12.3 - 12.9 Pounds for Chrysler T&C.
    You can check this fact in Edmunds, www.honda.com or www.chrysler.com.


    I see that Edmunds lists the numbers you're quoting. They don't list their source which could be helpful! The reason I have a problem with that is that they're not the same as the EPA's ratings for these vehicles. At this link EPA RATINGS you'll see the Odyssey as having the best rating for both CARB and non-CARB vehicles. Similar ratings as the Chrysler 3.3L, significantly worse than the 3.8L.
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    Just for clarification: the 2005 T&C is NOT totally redesigned. The front headlights have been changed slightly!!! The new "totally" redesigned T&C won't be until 2007.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    socalawd; I am not saying you should be socially responsible, Honda brand may be green but not Odyssey

    They are the top rated minivan. The EXL+ model I gave the link above.

    Chrysler is a US automaker, no matter how much you wanna argue.

    I have a hard time figuring out who's who. Here's a interesting article about who owns who.

    BMW owns:
    -BMW
    -Mini
    -Rolls Royce

    Daimler/Chrysler owns:
    -AMC (brand discontinued -- Chrysler bought AMC primarily for the Jeep brand which was owned by AMC)
    -Chrysler
    -Dodge
    -Eagle (brand discontinued)
    -Hyundai (Daimler/Chrysler only owns 10% --13 May 04 changes!)
    -Jeep
    -Maybach
    -Mercedes-Benz
    -Mitsubishi (Daimler/Chrysler owns 37%)
    -Plymouth (brand discontinued)
    -Smart

    Fiat owns:
    -Alfa Romeo
    -Ferrari
    -Fiat
    -Lancia
    -Maserati

    Ford owns:
    -Aston Martin
    -Ford
    -Jaguar
    -Land Rover (bought from BMW)
    -Lincoln
    -Mazda (Ford owns 33% of Mazda)
    -Mercury
    -Volvo cars

    Fuji Heavy Industries owns:
    -Subaru

    General Motors owns:
    -Buick
    -Cadillac
    -Chevrolet
    -Daewoo (GM owns 44%)
    -Fiat (GM owns ~20%) (GM has decided to divorce itself from Fiat as of Feb '05)
    -Fuji Heavy Industries (GM owns ~20%)
    -GMC
    -Holden
    -Hummer
    -Isuzu (GM only owns a percentage)
    -Oldsmobile (brand discontinued)
    -Opel
    -Pontiac
    -Saab
    -Saturn
    -Subaru (GM owns 20%)
    -Suzuki (GM only owns a small percentage)
    -Vauxhall

    Honda owns:
    -Acura
    -Honda

    Hyundai owns:
    -Hyundai
    -Kia

    Nissan owns:
    -Infiniti
    -Nissan
    -Renault (Nissan owns 15%)

    PSA Peugeot Citroen owns:
    -Citroen
    -Peugeot

    Porsche is an independent company (they do work very closely with VW, however)

    Renault owns:
    -Nissan (Renault owns 44%)

    Toyota owns:
    -Daihatsu (~51%)
    -Lexus
    -Scion
    -Toyota

    Volkswagen owns:
    -Audi
    -Bentley
    -Bugatti
    -Lamborghini
    -SEAT
    -Skoda
    -Volkswagen

    They create more US jobs than Honda.
    They contribute more to US ecomony then Honda.
    They are socially more responsible than Honda ( they are many social programs to help fight AIDS and disasters )
    They share profits with their US workers
    They have much bigger supply base in US than Honda, they supply base creates jobs in turn.
    Most of their vehicles are built in NAFTA ( CAN AND US , you cannot differentiate )

    Buying a import is not socially responsible and is not patriotic.


    A source I looked at says that chrysler built 7.1% of the cars in North America and Honda was 7.2%. Now add in dodge and it's a different story. So you think NAFTA is a good deal. Last time I looked I was an American not a Canadian or a Mexician. Please don't question how patriotic I am! Heck, i don't even shop at WalMart!!

    2005 Chrysler Minivan is totally redesiged

    It was a update!

    Chrysler created the first 4X4 (Jeep )

    No AMC the last of the independants! They didn't invent just bought! I was sorry to see it go. I owned a 1975 Hornet in college. The AM radio was the best loved the one speaker in the dash.

    Honda never invented anything original, they always copy ( imposters )

    I can't even reply to this kind of remark! But can't let it go ethier!

    2005 Honda odyssey has more customer compaints as a percentage of sales than Chrysler.

    Ok give me the data. Not just see this post thing!

    US is loosing competitive edge in the world market, because consumers are not socially responsible . buying all Chinese made products

    US is loosing edge because it gave too much to the unions. This gives them less money to build and update the cars. I didn't buy a chinese car. I try and buy americian when I can if it makes sense. Just bought a AMANA refrigerator(The LG was cheaper but). After all we are a free market society! If you build a better mouse trap!
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    You're like 3 generations behind now!!!! Get an iPod and get into the 21st century!!! I love mine, and play it thru my FM via iTrip "

    Dennis, you need to catch up a little too. :P You should feed the iPod into your stereo thru the RCA inputs with a little adapter from Radio Shack. The Honda has them into the stereo, right?

    I had an FM transmitter for my MP3 player, and now a direct AUX input. Night and Day
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I know BMWs from 2002 MY on has the ability to iPod via a connection on back of radio.

    iTrip is ideal for me.....I take it from cars, to house, to RV etc....

    iPod is like TIVO - you wonder how you ever got along without it!
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    Yep, they are 2 of the biggest technology innovations in a long time.

    I would just recommend, if you DO have the RCA inputs (my T&C has it right on the DVD changer plate) - it's well worth it to get the stuff for less than $10 at Radio Shack for a direct connection
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Chrysler created the first 4X4 (Jeep )

    "No AMC the last of the independents! They didn't invent just bought! I was sorry to see it go. I owned a 1975 Hornet in college. The AM radio was the best loved the one speaker in the dash."

    As officially adopted by the U.S. Army, the Jeep was the design of the Willys-Overland Corporation at the onset of World War II, although American Bantam was the first submitter of what we know as the "jeep" concept. Kaiser Motors obtained Willys-Overland in 1953, and hence the Jeep name and manufacturing. AMC (formerly Nash) acquired the Jeep when they purchased Kaiser in 1960. For the record, Ford made the majority of the wartime Jeeps. Willys failed to get the Jeep contract and instead built a small trailer for the Jeep. After the end of the war Willys made Jeeps again. It's also a little hard to refer to AMC as the last of the independents, being the grand child of Nash, Willys-Overland, Studebaker, and then finally being owned by Renault.

    Dusty
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    There WAS a major re-design of the T&C and most Grand Caravan for 2005 with the additon of Stow 'N Go. True, the entire vehicle was not re-designed, but why change the most attractive minivan design?
    True, it was not a complete re-design, but to say only the headlights were changed slightly is as irresponsible as the written portion of CR vehicle tests.
    BTW, doesn't the 2005 Honda Odyssey use the same transmission and engine in the LX and EX (cloth) that were used in the 2004 Odyssey? Does that imply that the 2005 Odyssey was not redesigned? :confuse:
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    The EPA rating is a "score" that includes a weighted average of Air Pollution Score, the Greenhouse Gas Score, and Fuel Economy estimates. When the three values are combined the total Environmental score is derived. These "scores" are not accurate for determining air pollution, greenhouse gas, or fuel economy estimates.

    The pollution values listed by Edmunds are actual measured values at the time the vehicle was federally certified. So in this case the Chrysler T&C does produce less actual pollutants than the Honda.

    Dusty
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Actually, every body panel on the new Caravan and T&C is different than its predecessors, including all measuring points of the vehicle undercarriage. Internal body structure is also different as a result of a significantly more rigid platform. Body stiffness was increased approximately 40% over the previous version. After determining through various research that the Chrysler versions were the most identified mini-vans and received the highest scores for appearance, there was a serious intention not to change the exterior appearance significantly.

    Whether this defines "total redesign" is arguable.

    Dusty
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Also.....the entire IP was redesigned to only a single cluster instead of the previous design that had a sweeping row of idiot lights above the gauges, also new seating of course, better integrated electronics, new HVAC venting. It may not look radically new, but much of the structure is. They should have done more with powertrain though
This discussion has been closed.