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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Please stop bring up that same tired old statement that was refuted once before.

    Ody sales increased calendar year 2004-2005 by a smaller amount than Did the DC minivans. Thus despite healthy percentage increase in Odyssey sales, Honda at the same time LOST percentage market share!


    The percent increase is bigger the amount of vans is almost the same! So relax,as far as market share please give me all minivan sales for 2004 and 2005 and marketshare then. I'll stop making this statement!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    As noted many times, DCX's promotions and prices are very public. Most DCX buyers aren't scanning their state looking for a deal.

    I seem to recall many "I don't recall" from Hillary on missing billing records etc..many more than an 80 year old president


    I bought Dodge I always did the research. As for Hillary who cares!! I'm a GOP guy!!

    Just look at the Postings for Toyota vs DCX, i'm not grouping just pointing out what I see. Honda owners must be different.

    Nope just the same!! Mostly people that live in the united states. Unless that bothers you?


    And the consumers most wanted! Your opinion but nothing to really back it up.

    Not really people on this site voted for it!!

    The Honda Odyssey conquered this category thanks to a sympathetic restyling that allowed the car to become the hands-down winner by a clear majority of votes. None of the other vehicles, not even last year's winner, the Toyota Sienna, registered more than half of the enthusiasm that consumers seemed to have for the new 2005 Honda Odyssey. The addition of optional eight-passenger seating with a stowable middle seat, second-row chairs that convert into benches, and generally improved space and noise dynamics undoubtedly helped the Honda Odyssey to reclaim its rightful crown in the minivan hierarchy.

    More than twice the votes of the second most wanted the Sienna!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Yes my van has the trailer towing package, although I've yet to tow anything with it. The rear shocke are somewhat of a engineering marvel (not sure if they were designed by DCX or some other vendor)They are not controlled by air or electricity, but are self contained, and maintain ride height no matter what the load. I proved this by loading cement blocks used to enlarge my patio, estimated to be about 1000 lbs. After loading the rear end seemed low, but after starting and leaving the Home Center parking lot the shocks pumped up and left the van level after about 100 ft of driving.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "...loading cement blocks..."

    Actually, they're CONCRETE blocks. Cement is that dry gray powdery stuff which is mixed with aggregate (sand/gravel) and water to form concrete (sorry, the Civil in me is always irritated when folks confuse 'cement' and 'concrete') :)

    I think load-leveling shocks are controlled internally through valving. If the shock is loaded slowly (ie. adding a load of concrete blocks to the van), it compresses. When driving, quick impulse loads to the shock from bumps do not cause the shock to further compress; however, when the springs rebound, the shock will expand. The shock continues to expand on the rebounds and resists compression on the impulse loads until the shock has re-expanded back to it's 'normal' ride height.

    Do the shocks feel particularly 'hard' until they pump themselves back up after about 100 feet?
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Sorry concrete it is. Do the shocks feel particularly 'hard' until they pump themselves back up after about 100 feet? From memory, I drove slowly, and could tell there was a load in the rear, and the front end was up. but shortly after driving about 100 ft. every thing seemed normal. I was careful stopping because of the extra weight, not wanting the concrete blocks to shift. I drove as high as 50 MPH and the trip was about 10 - 15 miles.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    I dunno, in my neck of woods, home depot charges $50 to deliver whatever you can throw into their 18 wheeler.

    And watch out for the GWVR, I hope you don't have to go far with that 1000# sitting on the rear axle. Cause shocks are wear and tear items :shades:
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    DCX is a 7 passenger van, less the driver, 6 passenger at 200 lbs per passenger, that equals 1200 lbs. weight was distributed from front to rear. rear seat removed, second row folded against front row. No problemo.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    My Tahoe had the same rear shocks. They are Nivomats made by ZF Sachs Automotive. Tahoes, Suburban, Chrysler minivans, Caddilac CTS, and such have been using them. The only problem is they have a short life and are relatively expensive to replace (over $500 for just the shocks on the Tahoe, that's buying from an online discounter). My Tahoe rears were no longer working at 40k miles when I traded and you can only replace with those shocks unless you rework the entire rear suspension.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    The $50 delivery charge doesn't sound that bad now....
    Actually I purchased patio stones before for a brand new 10x10 space, plus the sand stones that goes underneath and the sand that goes on top. Paid $50 and it was delivered in a pellet all wrapped in plastic sitting in the driveway. Wouldn't do it any other way, it's just me.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I'm not a big fan of hauling "stuff" inside my vehicle. Very unsafe during an accident. This is why real cargo vehicles have a steel bulkhead. Vehicles now are built to let you survive a crash, but a patio stone to the back of the head will pretty much negate that.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    That's where my "stow and go for decapitations" comes from.
    :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,755
    a soccer game broke out! :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,755
    someone had to lighten the mood. ;)
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Do you Odyssey drivers drive with your heads on the floor? or somewhere else? Concrete patio stones are only 1 1/2 inches high and were stacked only 4 high.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    There went the reasonable mood, explorerx4.

    Hayneldan, you said you were loading concrete blocks in your earlier post (actually, you incorrectly stated they were cement blocks, to be precise). I can't say I've seen a concrete block that's only 1.5 inches high. 1000 pounds of concrete blocks is different from patio stones. They weigh the same, but the hollow blocks would stack a lot higher for half a ton of them as opposed to flat, solid, patio pavers. Don't mock them when you are the one whose story changed.

    Also, keep in mind that wrecks often involve cars leaving the ground (an Astro Van turned over downtown B'ham the other day, going about 35 it jumped a curb and hit a car). This could cause objects to go airborne, even heavy stones/blocks or whatever you had.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    . I have owned several cars and vans from many manufacturers both with and without "heavy duty suspension" I prefer the "heavy duty suspension" on any vehicle. My discipline is Mechanical Engineering.

    I have the tow package also on my 05 DCX GC....quite a bargain...air suspension, HD radiator, Larger battery, HD electrical, Tranny cooler, PS cooler. Have driven my friend's base Caravan....seems similar to mine. I tow a 3300 lbs Coleman popup RV with no problem up some very steep West Virginia mountains. It's rated at 3800lbs.

    Mechanical Engineer from Penn State...WE ARE PENN STATE :) Although I've jumped to the dark side (sales) for an automotive supplier.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Not really people on this site voted for it!!

    The Honda Odyssey conquered this category thanks to a sympathetic restyling that allowed the car to become the hands-down winner by a clear majority of votes. None of the other vehicles, not even last year's winner, the Toyota Sienna, registered more than half of the enthusiasm that consumers seemed to have for the new 2005 Honda Odyssey. The addition of optional eight-passenger seating with a stowable middle seat, second-row chairs that convert into benches, and generally improved space and noise dynamics undoubtedly helped the Honda Odyssey to reclaim its rightful crown in the minivan hierarchy.

    More than twice the votes of the second most wanted the Sienna!


    Funny for all the accolades, a redesign and added features, one would have expected more of a sales increase.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Go check out a vehicle involved in a violent accident sometime. You'll never haul a heavy object loose in your vehicle again. Your vehicle may come to a complete stop in a fraction of a second, but all that crap in the back does not. I won't let ANY passengers ride in my vehicle without their seatbelts on. You know how many backseat passengers have been scraped off the front windshields?
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Funny for all the accolades, a redesign and added features, one would have expected more of a sales increase."

    Well, you must consider that for the '04 models, it's NOT like the factory was running at half capacity. Sales of the '04s (like the '05s and '06s) were limited as much by how many COULD be produced as by demand.

    Also, you must consider that for the '04s (at least through the last half of the year), the dealers were selling them as cheap as that model had ever sold. When the '05s hit, dealers were back to their same ol' same ol': MSRP+ (at least for a little while). This would perhaps have an effect on the number of '04 units sold vs. '05.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168

    Well, you must consider that for the '04 models, it's NOT like the factory was running at half capacity. Sales of the '04s (like the '05s and '06s) were limited as much by how many COULD be produced as by demand.

    Also, you must consider that for the '04s (at least through the last half of the year), the dealers were selling them as cheap as that model had ever sold. When the '05s hit, dealers were back to their same ol' same ol': MSRP+ (at least for a little while). This would perhaps have an effect on the number of '04 units sold vs. '05.


    The 05s on are built in a new Honda plant, I think capacity is about 200k/year? The plants can usually add a second shift if needed.
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    hi, actually I was the one who had the patio stones delivered. They were certainly 1.5" thick, but they were bricks, not concrete.

    Incidentally, a couple weeks ago I bought 12 concrete blocks and some 2x6 to make 2 cheapo shelves(tired of pressurized wood shelves). I did fold down the 3rd row and lay a tarp to carry the blocks and the loading/unloading was a pain. I hope the fellow who bought 1000# of concrete blocks had a couple of friends to help him.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "The 05s on are built in a new Honda plant, I think capacity is about 200k/year? The plants can usually add a second shift if needed."

    ???

    What do you suppose Honda did with the plant building the '04 Ody then? Put it in mothballs?

    They built the '05 Ody (and '06 Ody) in the same Alabama plant used for the '04 and previous year Odys. Was this plant operating at capacity in '04? I don't know; but given the high demand for the previous generation Ody in '02 and '03, I would imagine that it was operating close to capacity. Has capacity been added? Possibly.

    My point was that one can't simply look at sales numbers from year to year and make an assumption that the sales numbers SHOULD have been higher given the accolades the press put on the car.

    Have you taken into account the re-tooling time necessary to bring the '05 model online?

    Have you taken into account the fact that production usually ramps up slowly to (hopefully) resolve production issues?

    I think it unreasonable to assume that just because Honda was making 'X' number of Odys in '04 that they can instantly produce 'X+50k' to meet increased demand.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Previous generations of the Odyssey were built in Alabama and Allison, Ontario. They opened a second line in Alabama a couple years back and now produce ALL Odyssesy and some Pilots. The canada plant now produces Pilots, MDX, and Ridgeline.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Thanks.

    Goes to my point that one shouldn't naturally assume that Honda could just magically pump up production from '04 to '05.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Well technically they did. They were limited to 150,000 units at the Alabama facility prior to mid 2004. Once the 2nd line was open, capacity rose to 300,000 units but they're also building some Pilots there. So yes, they did have the ability to pump up production of the Ody for the '05 model. Either way, Honda continues to run at capacity across the board.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    What do you suppose Honda did with the plant building the '04 Ody then? Put it in mothballs?

    The MDX,Pilot, Ridgeline and Ody are all built on the same basic platform (with Ridgeline being reinforced). If Honda had felt they could sell 300,000 minivan/year, you know they'd find a way - any manufacturer would. They could have changed the product mix in Ontario/Alabama etc...less Pilots, more Odys. With the expansion of the Alabama plant, capacity doubled to 300,000.

    One can look at both DCX and Honda, and say the same things about sales numbers, retooling and timing. Honda is known for a seamless changeover, no shut down from one generation to next. Their manufacturing is the envy to this. I'll bet there was barely a hiccup in Alabama!

    All manufacturers ramp slowly. I've been in many plants (domestic and import) during lunch weeks when supplier are on hand in case there's any problems with their products. (makes it easier to scream at you!).
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Goes to my point that one shouldn't naturally assume that Honda could just magically pump up production from '04 to '05.

    They can do it a lot faster than you think. I see it all the time, getting request from customers asking if we have added capacity to build X many more parts/week and timing. I've seen it with Honda Accords, F150 and most recently the Mustang.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    I guess it would really come down to, what do they WANT to build keeping in mind they do have a capacity LIMIT for all those models. Any takers that the MDX, Pilot, and Ridge are all more profitable than the Ody?
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Well technically they did. They were limited to 150,000 units at the Alabama facility prior to mid 2004. Once the 2nd line was open, capacity rose to 300,000 units but they're also building some Pilots there. So yes, they did have the ability to pump up production of the Ody for the '05 model. Either way, Honda continues to run at capacity across the board.

    The capacity is about 300K. They have been running at full capacity 1300 cars per day. This will decrease in April due to high gas prices making the bigger cars less desireable. They want to keep the profit margin up. Ody production will remain at 800 per day.

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