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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    Ahhhhh Trekie!!!! :) Really I was comparing the Odyssey to jipsters MPV which he said logically was the best van.
  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    Thank you rorr I can now believe that someone reads a post before flying off the handle, you must own a Honda because you are not so uptight and defensive. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    According to Autoweek, DCX's fleet sales in the third quarter of 2005 was just over 17%, or slightly more than 1/6th of total sales. Hope this helps...

    Thanks but this really doesn't help.....That 17% could have been leftover Neons.


    The DCX fleet sales of minivans.

    My apologies for not making that perfectly clear. I mentioned GM's and Ford's vans later on, I assumed that would be enough to clarify that I was referring to Dodge's minis.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    No, you never mentioned 300 FSE's. What does that prove? I have had 6 company cars, from Ford GM and DCX. I am NOT thin skinned, nor a little girl, but will continue to challenge any Odyssey poster who posts Incorrect or partial information which downs the DCX products. And there seem to be 3 or 4 posters in particular who regularly post incorrect or partial information.

    You continue to post partial information. So regulate yourself. I don't care if you down the Honda product I've seen lots of things on here and they make me laugh! I do have fleet data from forbes for Dodge caravan in 2002 fleet=60,493 and overall sales = 244,911 so about 25% are fleet for that YEAR. As usual you have NOTHING but opinion!!
  • Please refer to the post that shows "partial information" By me. I Just returned from the Auto Show and was LOL at the Odyssey sticker which showed origin of content, it added up to 90%. Could the Odyssey be missing 10%? or they don't know wnere the heck 10% came from?
  • i drove both vehicles and chose to buy chrysler T&C limited. It wasn't just test drive, I drove both for more than 3000miles. Chrysler is still the best !!!!
    More systems for less money
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    If you're going to post numbers or quote sources, can you provide exact link? It's not that I don't trust you guys....but I couldn't find it myself. Thanks
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "My analysis was vs. the Mazda MPV"

    It was??? Your "facts" were so far off...I didn't know who's minivan you were speaking of. The Mazda MPV has more front headroom than Ody. It DOES have a moonroof as an available option. You can "buy" a MPV for around $4,000-$6,000 less than compariable equipped Ody. It doesn't have climate control...but we didn't want climate control. We have it on our Buick Regal...I think it(climate control) bites...prefer manual controls much better.

    The MPV is a big vehilce,though not a big minivan, which was what we wanted. The perfect size, space, features, safety, quality, reliability for our family. NOW...THAT is why it is the BEST minivan...for me. That, my Clingon friend...is pure logic. ;)
  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    I guess when Honda's headroom is more in the middle and rear seats I was generalizing that statement, but I stated that the price was $450.00 less on the STICKER without the OPTIONAL moonroof and unavailable Climate Control. Now how can it be $4000 to $5000 less than a Odyssey, unless you keep Honda at Sticker and Discount the Mazda to nothing. Of course that's what Mazda has to do to get rid of them. By the way what other facts was I so far off on? I quoted about 6 or 7 items and all you came up with was headroom(front only). I'm glad you got what you wanted but obviously we disagree. :D
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    To avoid confusion:

    The preceeding post was comparing the Ody to the MAZDA MPV, not any DCX vans.

    Thank you. :P
  • jpnewtjpnewt Posts: 71
    OOPS! Thanks for saving me again rorr, I will be more careful next time. ;)
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    The reason I mentioned fleet sales originally (and incorrectly as I was off by 8%) was to show that the huge sales numbers of DCX vans are not just to individuals. I have no fleet numbers or any evidence to prove or disprove sales of Odysseys. Most of the minivans I see in the area I live are DCX. Drive a few miles to the more affluent area and it is Odysseys and Siennas.

    If I had known there would this much whining and carrying on I would never have made that original post.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "but I stated that the price was $450.00 less on the STICKER without the OPTIONAL moonroof and unavilable Climate Control"

    nahhh...you may have stated that, but that's not what you wrote. You wrote, "it sells for $450 less than Ody and doesn't have climate control or moonroof".

    It doesn't "sell" for $450 less than comparable Ody...it "sells" for around 4k-6k less. You didn't write anything on original post about STICKER or OPTIONAL equipment. But, it really doesn't matter. You got the van you wanted and I got the van I wanted.

    Most people want a bigger minivan with a lot of the fancy features that Mazda minis don't have...so they ARE heavily discounted. The 2007 Mazda MPV, which at this time won't be availabe in the U.S, sounds pretty good. It's bigger, has a 2.4 lt. 4 cyl turbocharged engine rated around 250hp... that comes with a 5(maybe 6?) speed manual transmission available. Has dual reclining second row seats and is updated with more of the features/options people generally want in a minivan.

    But, this is a Ody vs DCX topic discussion...apologies fellow members. ;)

    Sometimes I feel like the Maytag repairman...sitting over at the MPV board... waiting for a post. :cry:
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    You may notice that a number of posts in this discussion are no longer here -- unfortunately, they were off-topic, disrespectful, etc.

    A rule of thumb to follow when posting here: If your post has more references to you or another person than to a minivan, it will probably wind up on the sacriicial heap with the rest of the posts that were removed tonight.

    Thanks.

    imageDrive on over and see me!

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Good News...

    A friend of mine, who works for Polk Automotive here in Detroit can provide us with exact fleet sales number for all Minivans. Hopefully he'll have data and link later today for me!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "...with exact fleet sales number for all Minivans."

    Terrific.

    Now, tell me again (because my eyes have glazed over and I lost my train of thought): just exactly WHAT is everyone trying to prove with the fleet sales numbers??? How do these numbers have ANY relevance whatsoever? :confuse:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think this is how it goes (to those concerned, if incorrect, call me on it please).

    Some Honda guys feel that fleet sales hurt the overall value of the Caravan twins by flooding the market with low-cost Dodge vans, making their resale value markedly lower. Some Dodge guys feel that fleet sales are a sign that their vehicles are more desirable than others not chosen for the fleets, usually when based on the value equation.

    Is this right, dennis?

    (PS. You'll notice I didn't bother commenting on the subject, as its not my issue here.)
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Okay - I think I see.

    It's an issue of how fleet sales affect resale values (for the pro-Honda folks), vs. fleet sales are indicative of value or 'bang for the buck' which corporate sales/rental agencies are after (for the pro-DCX folks).

    First off, you don't need to know % of fleet sales to argue resale values. Just look at any number of sources to compare resale value vs. purchase cost. Generally speaking, the Hondas hold a higher % of their initial value. This is either important or not important to the individual making a purchase decision. Personally, it wasn't that important to my wife and I since we typically hold onto our vehicles for 6-8 years and put a lot of miles on our vehicle. Resale didn't enter the picture for us.

    Second - I wouldn't look at fleet sales as indicative of value. Since I have no idea what criteria corporations/rental agencies use to select vehicles, why would I assume that THEIR criteria is the same as mine? I couldn't care less if they think they are getting more 'value' by selecting Brand 'X'. I'LL DECIDE what has 'value' to me and select accordingly.

    We might as well be arguing about the color selections available for the DCX and Honda vans.....
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    From an auto enthusiast point of view, it would be interesting to know just what the fleet numbers are. I do know that you see a bunch of Siennas in use as NYC taxis. I used to see Odysseys in the same use but don't know if that is still the case.

    The more important thing for a shopper to know is what van provides the best value. Comfort is almost a personal opinion. Handling may not be important to everyone, same with performance. For those of us "regulars" here all the above are very important to the point of passion. No one is any more or less intelligent because they bought a specific brand or model.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Actually, I think the fleet sales argument is really about how many private buyers are actually springing for the DC vans. The DC corner touts their high sales numbers as an indication of a more desirable vehicle. The HOA camp says a large % of those sales numbers are from fleets, so the "desirability" factor is skewed.

    But yes, fleeting does effect resale value as well as rebates/incentives/etc. Ford has been trying to reduce fleet sales to maintain residuals, as well as fix the MSRP to close to reality. GM and Dodge have been trying to fix the MSRP gap as well when the introduce new vehicles.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    As a DC minivan owner I recognize the adverse effect rental sales have on depreciation. I also recognize the lower cost of production effect that VOLUME production has. DC minivans are normally discounted to ordinary buyers because DC has volume production.
    Almost all rental and fleet DC minivans are purchased by private individuals and thus, virtually all DC minivans are eventually purchased for private use.
    The total initial sales of DC minivans (fleet, rental, private purchase)indicates the popularity of DC minivans.
    The arrival of a viable Odyssey as a 1999 model and Sienna as 2004 has been very beneficial to we who own DC minivans because their good ideas have been copied by DC just as Honda and Toyota copied good ideas from DC and Mazda.
    The BIG question is: "Why have GM and Ford been sleeping all these years"?
  • nwngnwng Posts: 664
    you are now counting used car sales? LOL.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    They're discounted because they produce too many. No manufacturer wants to discount their vehicles, period. But that's the price the market will bring so they give-up profit to cover overhead by producing more. It's a situation Honda and Toyota monitor very closely, and adjust their production accordingly.

    Ford has clearly stated they don't feel the minivan market is profitable enough to pursue developing a new vehicle. They're going for an SUVish type thing, maybe it'll be the next best thing. Personally, I think the market leaves just enough room for what's out there and Ford is probably smart to bow-out. The domestics need to stop building crap they can't make money off of, period.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "The DC corner touts their high sales numbers as an indication of a more desirable vehicle."

    Two points:

    First, I would be HIGHLY SURPRISED if the numbers of DCX vans sold to private individuals wasn't substantially higher than the numbers of Odysseys sold to private buyers. Even if you throw out all the fleet sales, I think this is still the case.

    Second, 'desirable' for whom?

    Stepping back for a moment:

    Why do we spend so much time in this forum (and I've done it many times myself) trying to 'prove' which vehicle is the 'best'?

    Both vehicles are very good. Both vehicles are substantially better than the equivalent offerings 10 years ago. Both vehicles do a good job of meeting the needs of this market. Both vehicles have traits which are specific to their particular model. Both vehicles have features/options/etc. which are not found on the other.

    Is the intent of the forum to continually validate to ourselves why we made the decision we did? Is the intent to try to convince the 'other guy' that he screwed up with his purchase decision? If this is all it is - hey, you guys have a GREAT time. I'll check in from time to time to catch up and maybe have a few laughs.

    Or is the intent of the forum to (hopefully) provide some info to those folks trying to make an informed decision? Maybe it would be helpful for owners of the specific vans to talk about what they DON'T like about their vans after living with them for a while? This would be a different perspective.

    I'll even go first:

    I don't like the 'lazy-susan' rotating tray in the Ody. The tray takes up too much room and doesn't rotate unless the big lid is opened. I've taken ours out.

    The Ody should offer either a telescoping wheel or adjustable pedals on all models. It's difficult for me to find a really good balance between legroom and reach to the steering wheel.

    I wish the tray table between the front seats was a console (with hidden storage) instead of a flip down table. I understand the concept (access to the rear) but honestly, ours is always so loaded down with junk, the LAST thing we'd ever do is flop that table down.

    That's about all that comes to mind immediately..... :)
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Volume production = more vehicle for the money. That is why DC minivans continue to be driven by more people than the closest 2 competitors combined.
    The Odyssey is a fine minivan but it is too expensive for many people. DC offers minivans in a wide price range to satisfy the needs of more people than does Honda. A fully loaded Chrysler T&C Limited is just as luxurious as the Honda Odyssey Touring...without the questionable PAX tires of the Ody Touring. The Ody Touring is better for a person who wants a minivan that handles most like a sports car.
  • highenderhighender Posts: 1,364
    I will be in the market for a minivan soon.

    We are considering 3...the Chrysler , Sienna, and Odyssey.

    What do you guys think ? Any concrete reasons for each, and any concrete reasons against ?

    I wanted to buy American, to support our local industries...but are they up to par.. ?
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    They're all-three good vans. All are built here in the states (about 1/2 of the Chryslers are build in Canada). It really comes down to personal preferences IMHO.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Wow, that's a loaded question; especially for this board!

    I'll do my best to give an unbiased report, as I'm sure a few others will do.

    Merits and issues for each van...

    Chrysler:
    Pros:
    Stow and Go is an idea no other van currently offers, and is quite ingenious. Chrysler has the most interior space (EPA says by about 15 cubic feet). The Chrysler usually can be had for less than the other two vans, often substantially so. The Chrysler is also nice looking, but seen EVERYWHERE on the road. Engine runs on regular fuel. The Chrysler has a softer than the Odyssey.

    Cons:
    Engine is only mediocre when compared with either Toyota or Honda, especially considering the horsepower advantage offered by Honda (Chrysler has 205 hp). The Chrysler makes do with a 4-speed automatic while the Honda and Toyota get a 5-speed automatic, which provides quicker acceleration and better economy that a 4-speed can. The Chrysler, while doing better, is still ranked "below-average" in consumer reports reliability study. Handling has been criticized for its less than stellar abilities.

    Toyota
    Pros:
    Smooth, smooth, smooth! Quiet engine, cushy ride, stellar quality and reliability. Good pep from the Engine, although not as zippy as the Honda. It gets good mileage (19/27) for the class. The interior, when optioned appropriately, borders on Lexus levels of luxury, and regardless of options are well finished and exmplify quality

    Cons:
    Many option packages are actually a con, it makes finding a Sienna you want difficult (many come to dealers over optioned). Handling is not a strong suit of the van b/c of its soft suspension; steering is relatively vague and very light. Toyota is PROUD of their product, and the price is often accordingly high. The Toyota reccommends Premium fuel for full performance from the engine (215 hp)

    Honda:
    Pros:
    Terriffic engine power (244 hp)for the class. Despite the power, the EPA got 20/28 mpg in instrumented testing for Leather models, 19/25 in cloth trim (Variable Cylinder Management makes that possible in the Leather-trimmed models).It's handling is the most carlike of the three, meaning it has sharp responses to steering. It has a "controlled" ride, meaning it does not float after you've hit a bump, the suspension just settles back down. Equipping an Odyssey is a simple process; there are no option "packages" to decipher; just simple trim levels. From lowest to highest they are LX, EX, EX-L, and Touring. The only options are DVD entertainment and a Nav system. Otherwise the cars are fully equipped. Engines run on regular gas.

    Cons:
    The "controlled" ride is often interpreted as more harsh that the other two vans. Many prefer a smoother ride to better handling abilities, and for those, the Odyssey may not be the best choice. The Odyssey is noisier than the Toyota, and I can't honestly say I remember the noise level of the Gr. Caravan I rode in a couple years ago. The Odyssey has had some first year quality issues (things like whistling and rattles), and is rated "Average" but is Reccommended by Consumer Reports.

    A lot of this is opinion, yes, but some of it isn't. The best thing for you to do is look at your wallet, drive the cars, and pick whichever one pushes the right buttons!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Pretty good synopsis; what the heck is wrong with you? :P

    I'd recommend that anyone interested in this trio get full brochures on each, and then (if at all possible) go to a car show where you can spend A LOT of time going back and forth between each of the three contenders.

    Things like interior/exterior style, material quality, control arrangement, seat comfort, ease of access, etc. etc. are best appraised by the individual rather than a bunch of partisan hacks here in the TownHall (including myself :blush: ).

    And by all means, don't decide on ANY of these without a thorough test drive of each contender. What we in here may like/dislike may be totally opposite of whatever floats your boat.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Pretty good synopsis; what the heck is wrong with you?

    Sorry, I forgot to bring my forum baggage on that last post. What was I thinking? ;)
This discussion has been closed.