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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    It depends on what you call "major." I believe DCX spent $400 million on that minor overhaul. That's big money for no new/upgraded engine, interior (stowing seats exluded), or changes to amend the driving experiece (although it isn't bad). "

    I guess it's a good thing they sold so many more vans after they did it. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I guess it's a good thing they sold so many more vans after they did it.

    I would be interested in seeing sales for the last couple years for DCX (pre-stowngo, post stowngo).
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Hey!! Lets compare apples and oranges while we're at it!!

    Find me a apple!

    Sorry you had to go back 5 years to an old Motor Trend.

    No the motor trend was from 2005. Is that 5 years ago?? I also included a Edmunds longterm.

    DCX vans may not be perfect, but the much touted Ody isn't any better.

    I expect the reliability to be very close.

    Thank god all I need do is look at the exclusive "Ody problems 2005+" for an even longer laundry list of problems.

    Yep I'm sure all that info is in line with reality. ;) Forums maybe the least reliable way to see whats really going on. No way to track anything(posts per hit/overall hits/repeat posters under deferrent ID's/etc)

    Go look up other dirt yourself if you want to be nasty. It's obvious I don't need to help you.

    I didn't want to put up the info I did. But by making gereral statement about how my van was doing(By saying we all have these issues over and over again it convinces people that it's true), I was forced to look for examples! :blush:
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I didn't want to put up the info I did. But by making gereral statement about how my van was doing(By saying we all have these issues over and over again it convinces people that it's true), I was forced to look for examples!

    So ALL the people having issues with, for example wind noise is probably just a vast DCX conspiracy to make Honda look bad I bet!! Non of it is true!!! Same with exhaust boom etc.. and the rest of the 333 problem posts in the "2005+ Ody problems" thread since mid January!!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    o ALL the people having issues with, for example wind noise is probably just a vast DCX conspiracy to make Honda look bad I bet!! Non of it is true!!! Same with exhaust boom etc.. and the rest of the 333 problem posts in the "2005+ Ody problems" thread since mid January!!!

    Sir, I believe you think you can be disagreeable, but when someone puts up information you don't like you call them nasty! As for conspiracy theorys I don't deal in them. It's really for those who can't stand reality. I know all cars have issues but useing just internet forums is very SIMPLE!!!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I would be interested in seeing sales for the last couple years for DCX (pre-stowngo, post stowngo)."

    Funny you should ask.

    It took some digging over at autonews.com, but I was able to determine actual vehicle sales for DCX vans (which included some leftover Voyagers up until around '04). Total sales (not production, SALES) of DCX vans (Voyager, T&C, Caravan/grand Caravan) are as follows:

    2000 455,468
    2001 430,043
    2002 408,681
    2003 374,494
    2004 386,664
    2005 407,530

    http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA29331023.PDF
    http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA411216.PDF
    http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/daimlerchrysler/dc-business-figures/chry- - sler-group-sales-prod-01.htm#Car%20&%20Truck%20Sales%202000-2001

    So, it appears as though sales were up by about 20k units from '04 to '05 (and helped to reverse a fairly nasty trend).

    I've no idea how many years one would spread the $400 million development cost over since a fair amount of that R&D would apply not just to the current vans but also to the next gen '08 DCX vans when they come out.

    edit: hmmmm, it didn't like that long autointell.com address.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "So ALL the people having issues with, for example wind noise is probably just a vast DCX conspiracy to make Honda look bad I bet!!"

    No, not at all.

    socalawd is NOT saying that NO ONE is having problems. But you seem to be insinuating that ALL Odys have these problems. Such is not the case.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there have been 333 posts in that thread since mid-January. After all, it is a Problems AND SOLUTIONS thread. Also, many folks feel the need to post (vent?) on multiple occasions for the same problem. This is not unique to the Odyssey; one can see this same thing in virtually any 'Problems/Solutions' thread. Part of the problem MAY be folks buying a Honda thinking it's going to be absolutely perfect. It's not. I do think however that many of the 'problems' reported in that thread are blown WAY out of proportion. Just IMO.

    You seem to think that socalawd is lying when he states he hasn't experienced those problems. Actually, my wife and I haven't experienced any of those problems with our Odyssey either; although I'll admit that after reading about supposed windshield imperfections, I took a long HARD look at our windshield. After about 3 minutes of close inspection, yep, I found a tiny little something in the windshield (if examined at the right angle in the right light). But, since it went unnoticed for nearly a year, I don't think I need to go into the P&S thread and whine about it. And I wouldn't be surprised to find similar little imperfections in virtually ANY windshield if examined close enough.

    We DID have a problem with a noisy slider not long after we got our van (making a fairly pronouced grinding noise with door operation) but the problem was excessive dirt buildup in the door channels. We live down a mile long dirt road which was being traversed at least 4 times a day. The dealer cleaned and lubed the track and recommended an occasional washing. Problem hasn't returned since.

    All in all, we've been very pleased with our van's quality and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of OTHER Ody owners feel the same.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    socalawd is NOT saying that NO ONE is having problems. But you seem to be insinuating that ALL Odys have these problems. Such is not the case.

    At the same time socalawd, because of his problems insinuates that all DCX owners have problems. Its good to point out both trees have rotting apples.

    All in all, we've been very pleased with our van's quality and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of OTHER Ody owners feel the same. Same for the 400,000+ yearly buyers of DCX vans. If that wasn't the case, after 20 years of manufacturing very poor quality minivans, they'd be selling far fewer!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    If that wasn't the case, after 20 years of manufacturing very poor quality minivans, they'd be selling far fewer!

    If this was true in general, then how do you explain all of the sales for cars like the Cavalier and Malibu (prev. gen)?
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    At the same time socalawd, because of his problems insinuates that all DCX owners have problems. Its good to point out both trees have rotting apples.

    Earlier in this same post I said the reliability is probably a wash! Maybe you got me confused with someone else?? ;)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    If this was true in general, then how do you explain all of the sales for cars like the Cavalier and Malibu (prev. gen)?

    Easy...I had a 1983 Cavalier, 2.0 TBI engine, 5 spd manual tranny. I put 180,000 VERY trouble free miles on this car. I gave it oil changes every 3000 miles, spark plug wires twice, brakes twice, belts and other regular maintainance. The ONLY thing that went bad on it was the starter motor which I replaced myself, during George HW Bush's swearing into office in January 1998!!! I remember because it was freezing outside and I'd run out, loosen a bolt, run back inside to warm up, then back out again..it took HOURS

    Regardless of what so many self appointed experts say and write, Detroit builds fine basic transportation. If people went strictly by CR or Edmund's, we'd all be driving Japanese mindlessly. GM still sells plenty of Cavaliers and Malibus...think how many small car options are available in the US...Kia, Suzuki, Hyundai, Mazda, not to mention the biggies!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Earlier in this same post I said the reliability is probably a wash! and many times before this one somewhat positive comment, you wrote many negative things like "hope you can live with your decision, I couldn't" (buying a dodge minivan). So no, I certainly didn't get you confused with anyone else!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    If people went strictly by CR or Edmund's, we'd all be driving Japanese mindlessly.

    Keep in mind, CR reports, well, consumer reports. So obviously, not everyone out there was as lucky as you. In fact, the late model Malibu was the worst sedan on their list for reliability.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    and many times before this one somewhat positive comment, you wrote many negative things like "hope you can live with your decision, I couldn't" (buying a dodge minivan). So no, I certainly didn't get you confused with anyone else!

    How far did you have to go back to find that post! I didn't like the Caravan very much(too many nagging issues), I made a poor choice buying it! It did not suit my needs and didn't have the features I wanted. Plus I found it uncomfortable and too small(SWB). The DCX van is a good vehicle and a great price! I just wanted something else!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Keep in mind, CR reports, well, consumer reports.

    That carries as much credibility with me as the newpaper name "Pravda" (the Truth) in Russia.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    I found a review by backy who is one of the Edmunds designated reviewers allowed to post.

    backy, "The Forums Test Drive Team" #176, 29 Mar 2006 4:17 pm
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That carries as much credibility with me as the newpaper name "Pravda" (the Truth) in Russia.

    Well, I guess that's fair, since it doesn't have to (it's not a communist propaganda paper). A lot of people DO feel differently about it than you do, bud. Not bashing ya, just trying to explain my (and a lot of others' views) on the subject. None of us are going to say that we are "more right", just that we each take different views on the subject.

    I'm heading to the gulf, so I'll check ya later!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Regardless of what so many self appointed experts say and write, Detroit builds fine basic transportation. If people went strictly by CR or Edmund's, we'd all be driving Japanese mindlessly.

    Really lets look at the cars Edmunds had rated high in the last few years!

    Here's 2005 results! Small cars 1. Mazda3(owned by Ford)2. Ford focus, Family sedans 1. Volkswagon Passat Luxury sedan 1.Lexus 2. MB S Class Sporty cars 1. Audi A4 2. BMW 3 series(don't you own one of those?? Guess CR made the decision for ya) Large sedans 1. Toyota Avalon 2. Buick Park Ave. Roadsters 1. Porshce Boxster 2 Toyota MR2 Wagons 1. Passat 2. Audi Allroad. All the small Utes, Fuel efficent cars are mostly Japanese make due more to what the big 3 were putting out. Seems like allot of german cars on this list! My vote is for german bias! :blush:
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "That carries as much credibility with me as the newpaper name "Pravda" (the Truth) in Russia."

    Just out of curiousity, what published media/sources/etc. DO have credibility with you?
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Found a review by backy who is one of the Edmunds designated reviewers allowed to post.

    This guy likes price better than anything else! Look at some of his other reviews! It's just more of the same stuff, this guy owns 2 low priced cars!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I haven't found one yet that hasn't been put down. Maybe the Chrysler brochures would be a good read.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    (don't you own one of those?? Guess CR made the decision for ya)

    Don't speak for me and don't guess for me please. I purchased my 325ci for it's fun to drive nature, having had VW GTi VR6 (FWD) previously. Even now, my baby is rated "average" by CR. I looked for almost a year prior to buying it. Was close to buying the Acura CL but it was boring to look at and only came with auto at the time.

    If you look at CR's April issue....German cars aren't rated much better then the domestics i.e..the red dot/black dot section.

    The biggest factor in buying a car is my personal likes/dislikes/needs...me first, not what CR raves about, or some "expert" at Car & Driver/MT/Edmunds. I get almost every auto rag delivered to my home and can read others at our office or the Visteon library.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    And what is so wrong with a review by someone who has a young family, is on a limited budget and is interested in value? No more of slanted review than those who post in here and have to have all the latest tech, no matter what the cost.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I get almost every auto rag delivered to my home and can read others at our office or the Visteon library."

    Great. So, which of these publications have credibility to you? Or, do they ONLY have credibility when you agree with them?
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    No more of slanted review than those who post in here

    Exactly!! ;)
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    If you look at CR's April issue....German cars aren't rated much better then the domestics i.e..the red dot/black dot section.

    Probably a reason for that! Hopefully it will get better. As far as when I buy my next car,I'm concerned as long as it dosen't have many whole black circles on the engine/tranny and I like the car I'm fine with it. The differeance between the best and worst cars are really getting blured! I was talking about rateings not reliability!!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Don't speak for me and don't guess for me please.

    You are always telling me I have recalls and problems unfounded I must add! I can surely guess what I wish about you!! Wierd that you would buy a car and put almost to a word what CR says about it! Maybe those mags are onto something!! ;)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Great. So, which of these publications have credibility to you? Or, do they ONLY have credibility when you agree with them?

    Automotive News, Automotive Design..basically engineering oriented mags with more facts than personal opinion. I'll use CR for 0-60 times or other measureable data, not "engine sounds coarse" or "head rests block vision" (but only in a DCX van)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Wierd that you would buy a car and put almost to a word what CR says about it! Maybe those mags are onto something!!

    Could you repeat yourself, I'm not gonna try to read your mind, to figure out what you meant to say!!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Probably a reason for that! Possibly because they aren't as bad as CR says they are, that CR could be bias and have an agenda of their own (it is managed and written by actual human beings).

    My BMW hasn't been perfect, needing control arms at 30k miles (probably due to crappy MI roads) but I am so glad I didn't buy my other choices.
This discussion has been closed.