Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

1210211213215216224

Comments

  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    "Well they don't have the chrome finish on them as does Honda, but I find no problem with the controls at all. Wipers are right together, all the ones to the cruise control are right on the steering wheel. I can change stations, adjust the volume on the radio by just touching a few buttons on the back of the steering wheel. I think everything is laid out nicely. My only complaint is many of the ones on the door, have no back light, as they use to."

    I did not mind the steering wheel controls on the DCX vans, I just felt that the interior had so many controls that it looked and felt busy. I am sure that I would have been able to adjust to the van over time, but we simply liked the layout of the dashboard better on the Honda vs the DCX. It simply looked and felt "cleaner".

    "You surly do have the right to buy anything you want and I have no problem with anyone doing so. I do get upset when I read some posters say they will never even look at an American vehicle again. That is very short sighted."

    I agree with you on that point. I could understand somebody saying that they would not buy another Chevy, or Ford again based on a bad experience, but to say that they would not buy American is short sighted. I had a horrible experiece with a VW a few years ago, but that certainly would not stop me from buying a Mercedes, or BMW.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I did not mind the steering wheel controls on the DCX vans, I just felt that the interior had so many controls that it looked and felt busy. I am sure that I would have been able to adjust to the van over time, but we simply liked the layout of the dashboard better on the Honda vs the DCX. It simply looked and felt "cleaner".

    You'll get no arguement from me about the dash or the looks inside of the Honda. It is a very nice looking van inside. If it were not for stow-n-go and those storage bins, I could have gone for the Honda. But if you saw my car space sight, you can easily see, the Dodge fit my needs much more than the other vans. They were the main reason I got rid of my truck.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    In a DC minivan, the A/C and Recirculation function don't come on when the temperature is put all the way to the cold area. There is a separate power on/power off button so the fan speed can be left at speed desired. NO outside air comes into the vehicle with power off.
    I never could adjust the HVAC in my son's Ody EX so that heated air came out of the floor only. It always has heated or cold air come out of the floor AND dash vents regardless of the temperature selected.
    In the 2002 T&C LX the rear temperature can be individually adjusted by the rear passengers. If temperature is warm, the air comes from the floor. If cold, the air automatically come from the ceiling vents. If the rear fan speed is controlled from the dash, the rear passengers get the same temperature as the driver selected...but warm comes from floor and cold automatically comes from the ceiling.
    In the Sienna, the rear passengers select floor, ceiling, or combination of the two and the temperature is the temperature selected. WHO wants HOT air from the ceiling and not the floor?
    I can no longer check the system on my son's Ody EX as it got totalled recently. :shades:
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    That's a lot of reading, but I don't think there's anything listed there that I can't do with the auto climate in our Ody. I can direct air where ever I want, but you do have to follow the correct order otherwise you lose the auto temp. Pick the wrong order and the entire system goes to manual mode. The only downside I find with the Ody auto climate is that it tends to run the A/C compressor a lot, even in the winter. I know most systems run the A/C in defrost mode, but the Ody will cycle the compressor all the time. You have to manual turn the A/C OFF and then go back to manual mode. I noticed my gas mileage improve during the winter if I keep the A/C off when it's not really needed.

    The Ody doesn't send air heat to the floor and ceiling either. It's all based on temperature as well. I used to run heat to the ceiling and floor in my Tahoe because it helped clear the side windows when we had lots of passengers. I had the ceiling vents pointed toward the side windows. I haen't figured out a way to do that with the Ody yet, but fogging hasn't been a problem so far.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I never could adjust the HVAC in my son's Ody EX so that heated air came out of the floor only. It always has heated or cold air come out of the floor AND dash vents regardless of the temperature selected.
    In the 2002 T&C LX the rear temperature can be individually adjusted by the rear passengers. If temperature is warm, the air comes from the floor. If cold, the air automatically come from the ceiling vents. If the rear fan speed is controlled from the dash, the rear passengers get the same temperature as the driver selected...but warm comes from floor and cold automatically comes from the ceiling.

    All you needed to do to redirect airflow (regardless of temp) is push "MODE".
  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    "Just another survey to point out, but I do think it's funny that people that complain about CR,car mags, etc. and other surveys start posting one when they like the results(because those are the ones they'd like to believe)."

    Agree with this statement. Like the below survey from CR:
    http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544

    "Our 2005 reliability survey, the largest of its kind, reached a milestone this year—we've gathered responses on more than 1 million vehicles from Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org subscribers, the most we've ever received."

    "MINIVANS

    The Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan dropped to below average in reliability, losing their recommendation. The Toyota Sienna is the only minivan that rates better than average. GM's minivans—the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6, and Saturn Relay—joined the Nissan Quest at the bottom of the list. "

    The Odyssey got an "average" rating for reliability, but I think this is not too bad considering the 05 was a brand new generation model.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Our 2005 reliability survey, the largest of its kind, reached a milestone this year—we've gathered responses on more than 1 million vehicles from Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org subscribers, the most we've ever received."

    "MINIVANS

    The Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan dropped to below average in reliability, losing their recommendation. The Toyota Sienna is the only minivan that rates better than average. GM's minivans—the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Pontiac Montana SV6, and Saturn Relay—joined the Nissan Quest at the bottom of the list. "

    The Odyssey got an "average" rating for reliability, but I think this is not too bad considering the 05 was a brand new generation model.


    Well with the grouping that CR has the difference between average and just below average is probably hard to distinguish. Boy would I love it if they gave you better info. Amount of cars in survey, specific problems and mileage driven per car,etc,etc. But I guess they think were too dumb for that. Just give them the circles(Only 5 ratings) and they'll be happy LOL!
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I agree with you in the hypocrisy of those that attack CR for criticizing a persons favorite model or brand, but praise them when the comments are favorable.

    The fact remains, however, that good or bad CRs so-called "reliability" data has more holes than a ton of swiss cheese, relegating their sophomoric system to "much worse than average."

    For all we know either the Honda, Dodge, or any other model missed the next higher gate by a factor of .001. Even a factor of one (1.0) would be statistically insignificant.

    Dusty
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I agree dustyk, I just took my van in last week for a recall. The recall was for a possible pinched line. I had it done when having the oil changed. To some, it's wow, Chrysler had a recall. It could be judged as something big, when in reality, it probably means only taking a clamp loose and straitening out the line and putting back the clamp. But could something like that go against Chrysler? Sure it could. C.M. doesn't tell enough about what goes wrong to make a judgment.

    I remember one guy on here complain his battery went out and his van was only three years old. That really ticked him off and he blamed the van manufacture. Another complained his tires wore out in only 40,000 miles. Again, he was made as heck. How do people like this fill out their forms that CR sends them? How do I know really what to look for when judging a vehicle rated by CR or any other rating service?

    There is a guy that has gone around to many of these auto sights and is starting up his own rating service. He said it will be much fairer the CR and some others. He wants people to E-mail in each week if you have had to take your vehicle in for any repairs or recalls in the month before. Wants to know how long they kept it. Now he doesn't want to know if you take it in for regular service like oil change, replacement of any normal wear or tear item such as replacing tires, batteries, belts, hoses or wipers. But I had to list mine as a recall for a possible pinched hose because it was a recall, where under his own guidelines, this would be considered a wear item and need not be reported. Anyone looking at reliability, is only going to see that Chrysler had a recall on that year van, not knowing what was done. In 17 months, that has been the only time anything but reg. maintenance has been done to it.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    "I agree with you in the hypocrisy of those that attack CR for criticizing a persons favorite model or brand, but praise them when the comments are favorable. "

    Even more amusing are those who tout the superiority of their vehicle/brand because of the colored circles in CR, but then criticize when they discover what the differences really are between the colored circles.

    CR is what it is. I subscribe, but I don't put blind faith into their reliability surveys or subjective comments. On the other hand, I do trust that their more objective measurements (acceleration, braking, dimensions, fuel economy, etc) are pretty consistent.

    "The fact remains, however, that good or bad CRs so-called "reliability" data has more holes than a ton of swiss cheese, relegating their sophomoric system to "much worse than average."

    For all we know either the Honda, Dodge, or any other model missed the next higher gate by a factor of .001. Even a factor of one (1.0) would be statistically insignificant.
    "

    Good point. If you dig through back issues and their online system, you can actually find enough data to get an estimate of the absolute problem rate over a period of years. Even for two vehicles at the center of adjacent categories, the numbers aren't much different. For example, the difference between the 2005 Odyssey and 2005 Grand Caravan 2WD amounts to maybe one more problem over 5 years and about a couple more over 8 years. There's no way to tell how accurate the numbers are or the liklihood of getting a real lemon, though, because CR doesn't provide any statistical information like margins of error, standard deviations or even the number of samples.

    The only category that would probably be a concern is the full black "Much Worse Than Average" category, because it has no lower bound. The Nissan Quest is significantly below average according to CR, for example. That is much lower than Chrysler, Ford or Honda vans, which are all pretty similar, in my opinion. Granted, CR also doesn't tell us if that extra problem or two means a huge amount of time in the shop or significant out-of-pocket expense.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    "There is a guy that has gone around to many of these auto sights and is starting up his own rating service. He said it will be much fairer the CR and some others."

    He's a smart guy with a lot of experience in the area. His system will indeed be much fairer, if he can get a high enough participation rate. The site is www.truedelta.com . He also has some good commentaries on CR's methods in their reliability surveys.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    He's a smart guy with a lot of experience in the area. His system will indeed be much fairer, if he can get a high enough participation rate. The site is www.truedelta.com . He also has some good commentaries on CR's methods in their reliability surveys.

    I agree, I do think it will be fairer, but do you see what I was saying about my recall? I don't know if they straitened the hose, or just eye balled it and saw there was no crimp. But it will go down as a recall without knowing what it was recalled for. Under normal condtions, it wouldn't have to be reported at all, as it was a wear item, like wipper blades
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    I guess that comes down to how much a visit to the dealer bugs each respondent. If the rules are clearly detailed, at least it will be consistent, even if some don't think it is fair.

    The problem comes when you leave it vague and tell people to report only "serious problems". I might think having a recall done at the time of a routine oil change isn't a serious problem. I may think new front brakes at 35,000 miles aren't a serious problem. I may think a lone one-hour trip to the dealer to reset a warning light and replace a PCV valce isn't serious. Someone else might find those all to be serious problems. That alone causes some errors in the survey. It gets multiplied if there is a pattern of such reporting differences caused by editorial bias.

    I know some Honda owners who say their Hondas are bulletproof, yet dismiss their trips into dealers for recalls and warranty repairs as part of ownership. On the other hand, it seems like owners of domestics that I know will discuss any little issue that required a dealer visit. Does an editorial bias cause this type of reporting error in CR? Who knows...
  • dc_driverdc_driver Posts: 712
    I do agree with many of your points, but all I know is that, based on my experiences, CR data tends to be fairly accurate.

    Case in point, I have owned three problematic vehicles (the worst being a 1999 VW Jetta VR6 which was probably considered a lemon). All three of those vehicles were not recommended by CR and all three received the worst rating for reliability.

    That does not mean that if I went out and bought a Toyota Camry I will not have problems. Based on the eleven vehicles that I have owned, all vehicles have some problems, some just have more than others.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    That does not mean that if I went out and bought a Toyota Camry I will not have problems. Based on the eleven vehicles that I have owned, all vehicles have some problems, some just have more than others.

    Competition has made these vehicles better than ever. I remember the junk the big three tried to shove down our throats back in the 70-80s.
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    This is only my opinion....

    A good friend of mine recently bought a used (18,000 miles) 2006 Honda Odyssey. Prior to this purchase I had never driven in a new model Ody. My opinion, after riding in the van, was that the interior of the Ody was MUCH nicer than my Wife's 2005 Town & Country Touring. The interior feels of a better quality, the controls are clear and feel great to the touch. The speedometer and tachometer look GREAT. You can tell that the T&C was designed (for the most part) many years back and the Odyssey is a newer, more modern minivan.

    I love our T&C and am glad we bought it. But, IMHO, the Odyssey looks like a better (read: better built) van.

    BUT, when I asked my friend for specifics on his van they were: 2006 Honda Odyssey EX w/ cloth seats, power side doors (no power lift gate). All this for $25,000 + Tax Tag Title.

    Our 2005 T&C Touring was bought brand new w/ leather interior, power side and rear liftgate, 6 disc DVD entertainment system, sirius satellite, stow & Go (of course ;) and side airbags . We paid $23,700 + Tax, tag and Title.

    Now, which is the better deal? I think the T&C is a better deal FOR MY FAMILY. If the extra money was not an object, I probably would of bought a new Sienna. But, my friend thought the Ody was a better value for his family. He actually is planning on getting aftermarket leather put in his van by the end of the year. So that will add another $1300 to the price. Which will last longer? I'm not sure but the Honda will most likely outlast our Chrysler product (just going by what the surveys say :surprise: ).
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Well, your friend got ripped off but that's not uncommon when it comes to vehicles. Most folks just don't know what they're getting into. Yes, the Ody is more expensive but that doesn't mean you have to pay new car prices for a used vehicle!

    A friend of mine that is a used car dealer recently told me of one of his customers..."I could sell that guy bird seed for his cockoo clock."

    It looks like the current T&C Touring with a couple packages, side airbags, and nav is as close to my EX-L R&N as you can get. Both have +/- some options. The T&C is about $4,000 cheaper. It was a $3,000 difference when I bought last year. I'd still buy the Ody. $4,000 isn't that much in my book to buy the vehicle I prefer driving. Of course, KBB.COM shows a $5600 difference in trade-in value between my Ody and a similar T&C Touring.

    If I was value shopper I'd buy the loaded 40k mile '04 T&C Touring my Honda/Toyota/Chrysler dealer had last time I took the Ody in for service. Can't beat that for $14,999.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    If I was value shopper I'd buy the loaded 40k mile '04 T&C Touring my Honda/Toyota/Chrysler dealer had last time I took the Ody in for service. Can't beat that for $14,999.

    I sold my base 2001 Odyssey LX with 43k late last year for $14,500. In the classifieds, I was lower than similar Odysseys but competing with a lot of midrange 1-2 year old Grand Caravans with lower miles. IMO, I would have much rather had the newer GC or T&C if I was buying used.
  • I had a chance to drive two of these Odysseys (EX-L and Touring/Navi/Res) and I will admit these vans are excellent. It has alot of power. It will cruise comfortably at 80 mph and still, still has the punch to pass! I really think this van is excellent although the VCM (variable cylinder management) will not work after 78 mph at least going against the winds (20 mph winds) but slow it down to 70-75 mph and it works well.
    I was never a person for the XM satillite radio but after traveling 100 miles total with one that has it and one with out it I would recommend the XM radio if you travel alot and forgot CDs.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    The 2001 Ody EX has 64,684 miles on the odometer and the 1999 GC SE has 88,925 miles on its odometer.

    The Odyssey is the minivan for sporty, aggressive driving but the DC minivans are for we who like a quiet minivan with more nice features. :shades:
  • The Odyssey is quiet and built well, but its not tough. Dodge or Chrysler vans can handle better weight and not bottom out in the back.
    Odyssey-for city
    Dodge- for higway and work
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Dodge or Chrysler vans can handle better weight and not bottom out in the back.

    Where are you getting the info for that? How much weight are you hauling? I just did a trip with the Ody last week: cargo area filled to the top of the 3rd row (including a huge cooler filled with ice/drinks), two adults in all 3 rows, and the vehicle seemed to sit fine and never bottomed out. I also was not blinding anyone with my headlights, which seems to say it was sitting relatively level. Perhaps you can't haul a load of gold ingots....but I'm not sure how much more weight you could physically get in mine to make it "bottom out".
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    The Odyssey is quiet and built well, but its not tough. Dodge or Chrysler vans can handle better weight and not bottom out in the back.
    Odyssey-for city
    Dodge- for higway and work


    Alright lets look at GVWR this is the gross vehicle weight rating. You take the GVWR and subtract the curb weight of the vehicle and get payload weight.

    2005 Dodge Grand Caravan
    Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 5,600, curb weight (lbs) 4,147,

    Max cargo weight 1443lbs

    2005 Honda Odyssey

    Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 5,953, curb weight (lbs) 4,378

    Max cargo weight 1575lbs.

    So the manufactures say Ody carries more weight.
    Of course the Ody EX costs 25K :P :P :P more than a DGC SXT but what the heck it's worth it!! :shades:
  • Alright lets look at GVWR this is the gross vehicle weight rating. You take the GVWR and subtract the curb weight of the vehicle and get payload weight.

    You need to include the GVW per axle too. That is how the payload weight is spread out. The front axle will have the lowest weight rating, because of the engine and trans. The rear axle will have the highest weight rating. Also, note that since the Dodge and T&C minivans use leaf springs and have a solid rear axle, they hold the weight better and you have less sagging in the rear. Independent suspension in the rear, on minivans, just don't handle max pay loads as well as a solid rear axle with leaf springs. If you want proof, just look at the rear suspension of trucks and look up suspension here on Edmunds. :D
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Posts: 265
    IMO, if you are hauling or towing anything substantial, you don't want any minivan. Talking about an extra 100 pounds or so is irrelevant. Get a Durango or Tahoe or something similar, instead.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Odyssey has THE MOST comfortable seating with the most flexibility. Grand Caravan has more features with places to store more cargo. The Odyssey interior is more attractive but the Grand Caravan has more attractive exterior styling.
    Is this why these 2 minivans are the BEST selling? :shades:
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    IMO, if you are hauling or towing anything substantial, you don't want any minivan. Talking about an extra 100 pounds or so is irrelevant. Get a Durango or Tahoe or something similar, instead.

    The DCX vans may only tow an additional 300lbs over all other minivans, but the more important aspect for me is the tow package. The DCX tow package is factory installed and includes items that would be difficult for a dealer to install correctly....HD electrical system (increased wire size, battery and battery terminals), Auto leveling rear suspension, on top of the usual HD radiator, tranny cooler and PS cooler that most dealers will install.

    Got to say, I'm glad I opted for the Caravan 2 years ago!! I almost had a HEMI Durango but during the test drive I kept watching the mileage readout of 11 MPG!!! OUCH!!!! Towing my RV, I easily see 22 MPG..not shabby in my book.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Is this why these 2 minivans are the BEST selling?

    YEP! Because if you combined the best attributes of both vehicles, you'd have the perfect car!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    I had an 02 T&C LX and now have an 06 Sienna LE. The T&C is a much superior van to the Sienna !!
    The T&C was quieter, had less wind noise at highway speeds, had a superior heating/air conditioning/ventilation system, had a superior more accurate trip computer, had a superior radio/stereo system, and the list goes on.
    The Sienna has slightly more power and gets slightly better gas mileage and the driver's seat is more comfortable than the driver's seat in the T&C BUT the T&C other seats are MORE comfortable than the Sienna seats.

    Resale? Another HOAX. I tried to trade off my almost new Sienna LE and was told by a Toyota dealership that it has a trade in value of only $ 19,000. Do NOT believe the bloated, over-inflated trade in values quoted for the Sienna or Odyssey. In the real world, DaimlerChrysler minivans actually cost less to own than the overhyped Sienna and Odyssey.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Do NOT believe the bloated, over-inflated trade in values quoted for the Sienna or Odyssey. In the real world, DaimlerChrysler minivans actually cost less to own than the overhyped Sienna and Odyssey.

    Funny, we got $1,200 OVER bluebook value for our 2000 Odyssey last November(traded in at a Honda dealership). It's very dependent on the individual dealer, remember.

    And the price of the car we purchased was negotiated before we discussed trading in our van, just an FYI on that detail.

    As far as TCO, that'll be different for each individual, but remember, just like my case may not be typical, yours may not be either. Just a reminder for those who read but may not post here. :)
This discussion has been closed.