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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    You can tell you're a newbie member master1. You might want to review some of the many problems in the Honda Odyssey Problem area before spouting off.

    1) Cosmetic rust on the outside of an engine is meaningless.

    2) Some models are underpowered for sure, like the 4 cylinders in SWB version. But then people who can't afford $25k for a new Honda but desire a new vehicle can afford a DCX minivan - great for a young family. On upper level DCX minivans, the 3.8 is only 1.4 seconds slower to 60 mph, produces same torque as the Ody, gets the same gas mileage, and in some articles, produces less pollution (although I question this myself).

    BTW, a little off topic here, but was reading in Autoweek about the Toyota Prius. They made a point after long term tests, that even though the Toyota produces less pollution than many cars, and costs thousands more, a Ford Focus now meets same pollution standards, costs thousands less without the questionable battery replacement somewhere down the road.

    3) Horrific quality...Consumer report rates Honda and DCX van identical for 2004 and 2005. One need only look at the Honda problems and recalls to see Honda is probably more horrific than DCX. Since you're a newbie, I'll assume you haven't read through the problem areas for Odyssey....poor gas mileage, windshield noise and replacement, poor AC canister placement, door problems, brake problems etc.... Lets not forget the 4 Ody recalls on 2005s also.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    I did not state anything about Windstar, so don't accuse me of bending statistics on Windstar/Freestar, which indeed has lost sales and market share and is going nowhere.

    I only restated the same numbers you put in your post, which shows on an absolute basis of number of minivans sold, DC increased sales more than Honda.

    Sure Honda increased more on a percentage basis because their basis for sales was much smaller than DC.

    Just look at the imaginary Joe Blow company as an example, going from 10 vehicles to 20, wow a 100% increase in sales and a 100% increase in market share, vs another large established company that say went from 300,000 sales to 330,000 sales, "only" a 10% increase. Which one is actually making any appreciable headway?

    Considering the increased competition in this market, with Honda and Toyota building admittedly good minivans, and also with Kia, Nissan, Ford and GM all trying to a lesser degree to get a share of the pie either with minivans or newer crossovers, it is even more impressive that DC has been able to increase sales.
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    Next DCX minivan redesign is supposed to get a 4.0L + 6 speed auto.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    with power Stow N Go!
  • fljoslinfljoslin Posts: 237
    I was joking about the HEMI.
    However, if the Chrysler minivans had the 3.5 L engine available the choice would have been much closer. I probably would not have purchased a new DC due to the rapid drop in resale, just the same way that I would not purchase a used Honda because they do not drop in resale value.
    As for DC reliability I had a 1992 Grand Caravan which I donated to charity in 2001 with 170,000 miles on it running fine (original engine, trans, A/C). I have a 1999 Intrepid on which in six years I have spent about $450 above normal maintenance (trans sensor and wheel bearing) and my wife has a 2005 Pacifica which with 14 months on it has had no problems other than a window problem fixed under warranty. The Intrepid has the 3.2 L engine which is the same as the 3.5 L engine in the Pacifica except for cylinder bore. Either of these engines would have been great in the minivans.
    Why don't you have you wife check out the back seat. That is where my wife usually sits. ;)
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Honda but desire a new vehicle can afford a DCX minivan - great for a young family. On upper level DCX minivans, the 3.8 is only 1.4 seconds slower to 60 mph, produces same torque as the Ody, gets the same gas mileage, and in some articles, produces less pollution (although I question this myself).

    Yes the 1.4 seconds slower is from CR but as far as the gas mileage from CRthe DCX is 17 mpg overall and the Odyssey is 19 mpg, why don't we use all the information? Almost all tests show this to be about right. The horsepower is much lower and the passing times are considerably slower 45-65 Ody 4.3 sec. DCX 3.8L 5.6 sec. The only place I saw anything about the smog being less is on the edmunds site I belive it is a typo!!

    Look here!
    link title

    The Ody poster a 7 and 6 for a overall 13 out of 20. The 3.8 liter DCX van was 6 and 4 for overall 10 out of 20.

    Horrific quality...Consumer report rates Honda and DCX van identical for 2004 and 2005. One need only look at the Honda problems and recalls to see Honda is probably more horrific than DCX. Since you're a newbie, I'll assume you haven't read through the problem areas for Odyssey....poor gas mileage, windshield noise and replacement, poor AC canister placement, door problems, brake problems etc.... Lets not forget the 4 Ody recalls on 2005s also.

    Really not very concerned I've got 8,000 miles of carefree driving with no issues. The other cars that have been long term tests have been pretty good so far! I see alot of people claiming 28 on the highway and 22-24 overall
    link title
    on the vans gas mileage forum for there Odyssey. Kinda wierd that that isn't being pointed out here. It's alot easier being negative than positive. Problems area's on forums are a place for people to complain without any way of knowing what you have got! I'd take all of what I hear here with a grain of salt! Even this post is only marginial LOL. As for the one I am replying too. You can make your judgement I already made mine! ;)
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Sure Honda increased more on a percentage basis because their basis for sales was much smaller than DC.

    Just look at the imaginary Joe Blow company as an example, going from 10 vehicles to 20, wow a 100% increase in sales and a 100% increase in market share, vs another large established company that say went from 300,000 sales to 330,000 sales, "only" a 10% increase. Which one is actually making any appreciable headway?

    I was replying when this started that Ody was not losing market share, thanks for pointing out what I first stated. DCX is not increasing as fast as Honda in minivan market share! Thats all I was saying! The ratio says it all if DCX was increases market share the ratio would go up. Please read the originial post saying that DCX wasn't worried about profit just market share

    link title
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Yes the 1.4 seconds slower is from CR but as far as the gas mileage from CRthe DCX is 17 mpg overall and the Odyssey is 19 mpg, why don't we use all the information?

    I don't see too many Honda owners clocking and posting their 0-60 times on here. I don't see a "POST YOUR 0-60 TIMES HERE" thread?

    However, I do see plenty of complaints about dismal MPG on here.

    BTW - we're talking MINIVANS here, not Corvette vs. 911. Don't know too many minivan buyers overly concerned about 0-60 times. I'd think most are more concerned about price, mileage and quality.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Glad my 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L V6 has an excellent compromise between performance and fuel economy. It can maintain or exceed the speed limit anywhere it has been driven while providing outstanding fuel economy. ;) Fuel economy is much better than the 01 Odyssey EX owned and driven by a family member.
    BTW, we have never had a drag race to see how much faster his Odyssey is than my T&C. :shades:
  • master1master1 Posts: 340
    I'm not saying the DGC is slow but it could use more power, and besides my MAIN point is that the quality needs improvement, and especially Dodge's history with Durangos that have wheels that fall off. I am aware of the recalls with the Odyssey, but the main reason for that was because it was a completely new engine - around 2004 Hondas Odysseys weren't having as many recalls. Hondas 2006 Odyssey is excellent in quality AND VALUE. For 24, 000 you get a mini-van with basically all the essentials needed, and for 27, 000 you get some more features. I hope I have not offended anyone in what I've wrote, because I'm not trying to -- just post my opinion since this is the forum for comparisons. In response about "my failure to reading about the Odyssey problems," I have visited that page, but you cannot always believe everything posted on those pages because some people don't always maintain their cars the best, and some just lie. I mainly go by FACTS from Consumer Reports, and my knowledge of cars. Once again, I hope I haven't offended anyone, I'm just posting my opinion. ;)
  • You can't use "Facts" and "Consumer Reports" in the same sentence. see the Edmunds forum on Consumer Reports.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I hope not to offend either. I believe Honda needs to improve quality greatly, especially with their history of faulty trannies, recalls on Ody and the numerous complaints online. DCX's 2006 Caravans/Grand Caravans are excellent in QUALITY AND VALUE. For $19,000 you get a minivan with basically all the essentials needed, for $22,000 you get even more features. You can spend even less if you only require a SWB minivan with a 4 cyl engine.

    Your FACTS aren't rooted in CR because they are now rating the DCX and Honda as equals with their little colored dots. I don't recall CR or any rags commenting on rusty engines, or hard plastic IPs being thin and dangerous. Sorry but these are mostly opinion, not FACTS. A softer IP is not safer, maybe in the 60s before airbags? My customer is Visteon, they design and manufacture entire IPs for Ford, Nissan, Honda and a few other OEMs. You may believe what you say but I deal with the engineers daily and many of the safest cars have hard, thin, plastic IPs (Volvo, BMW, Audi). Actually go press the IP of a Dodge Caravan, feels pretty soft to my touch. I'm able to depress it .25 inch easily....I dont think this makes it safer or less safe....I think my dual stage and knee airbags do more for my safety. Again I see mostly opinion, and less facts.

    What always baffles me is...you have DCX selling at least 2 times the minivans as Honda but half the problems/complaints online. If DCX quality was as horrific as you state, this should never be the case or at least you'd think they'd be more even?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    You can't use "Facts" and "Consumer Reports" in the same sentence. see the Edmunds forum on Consumer Reports.

    I only use CR for cold hard testing...braking, 0-60 times etc....They can't slant numbers like they do their ratings and write ups!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    I don't see too many Honda owners clocking and posting their 0-60 times on here. I don't see a "POST YOUR 0-60 TIMES HERE" thread?

    However, I do see plenty of complaints about dismal MPG on here.


    I was not the one that brought up 0-60 times you did, all I was saying was use the MPG too if your gonna use that. Why does the subject always get changed??? Not very much from DCX anywhere on here they just don't post much. All the same people posting the same stuff over and over again. The Ody driver are looking for 20/28 but come on thats not realistic. I saw a bunch of stuff on here when CR said the Ody got 12mpg in the city and they got 28 highway(saw none of that) But when I pointed out the DCX 3.8L got 11 city and 25 highway in the same tests it wasn't like sorry we only posted saome of the info!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Glad my 2002 T&C LX with 3.3L V6 has an excellent compromise between performance and fuel economy. It can maintain or exceed the speed limit anywhere it has been driven while providing outstanding fuel economy. Fuel economy is much better than the 01 Odyssey EX owned and driven by a family member.

    Well that said, I got 17-18mpg on my 3.3L Caravan. I'm well over 21 mpg now. I also drive more highway miles cause I like driving it SO much!!! So go figure. The best gas milage I ever got was 25.5mpg(all highway)In the DCX 2 mpg less than my recent San Diego trip to watch my BILLS get ripped. Had a great time LOL!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    And owners of newer DC minivans are very satisfied. The OVERALL gas mileage of my 2002 T&C LX 3.3L is now 22.5 MPG.
    Based on reading in the Town Hall, it looks like the Odyssey VCM is a Honda ruse to trick the EPA testing system. :sick: (Same can be said with DaimlerChrysler using it on the 5.7 Hemi V8 used in Chrysler 300C, Dodge Magnum, and Dodge Charger). :sick:
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,225
    I'm not overly concerned with 0-60 times on minivans, but I prefer to buy the better performing vehicle even if everything else is equal. The Ody certainly feels stronger in every way, and probably having the greatest effect on it is the smoother and quieter drivetrain. You can take the somewhat thrashy DC engines vs the 3.5L Honda and guess which is going to feel significantly quicker simply because it's composed throughout the power band? I'm sure I drive the Ody a bit more aggresively than I would another minivan simply because it does the work more easily. I'm just used to driving a little more advanced drivetrains than what the DC vans bring to the table. Besides my trucks, the ODY is our only non-luxury brand vehicle we've owned in many years. Jumping into a DC minivan from a Lexus or Audi will certainly get your attention. The Ody isn't that far off though, the drivetrain is pretty good.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    DC minivans have included the nice luxury car feature of separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger over a decade while the Odyssey just added it in 2005. DC minivans have also included a respectable sound system for over a decade while the poor quality of the Odyssey sound system is well known. DC minivans have also been much quieter than the Odyssey...like a luxury vehicle should be.
    Yes, the Odyssey has the most powerful engine but the Odyssey has lacked many luxury car features until very recently. ;)
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Jumping into a DC minivan from a Lexus or Audi will certainly get your attention. The Ody isn't that far off though, the drivetrain is pretty good.

    I jump from a BMW to my DCX minivan every day.....doesn't get my attention, realizing one is a minivan and the other is a sports sedan. Having driven both Odys and GCs there's not that significant of drivetrain differences either, the biggest difference was price.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Why does the subject always get changed???

    You asked why I don't use all the information, I initally brought up 0-60 times because of comments on DCXs being "underpowered". Given all the Ody's technology etc... 1.4 secs and a few MPG more isn't all that impressive. If DCX wanted to close that gap, probably a 5 spd tranny would do it. On top of that, CR is redoing their mileage testing methods also....so they're re-evaluating their methods. Real world mileage according to Edmund people is all over the place for the Odyssey.

    On top of that, I have concerns on VCM/Cylinder Deactivation from all manufacturers.....having 3 or 4 cylinders running less than the others? So you have half the wear on half you engine? What about engine compression after 75k miles? Maybe I'm sounding like my father complaining about the demise of distributors and point setting?
This discussion has been closed.