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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    While it may be difficult to decide which individual options of Caravan, Grand Caravan, or Town & Country they would prefer. :confuse:
    Many DC dealers will let a customer order a minivan with the exact options they want. Many DC dealers also maintain a nice inventory while a few have the Honda policy of equipping each model exactly the same. :blush:
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Standard on GC SXT...NOT available even as an option on Odd EX.

    To me a trip computer is another annoying boble. I do like the maintenance minder and the infloor lockable storage!

    Many people like Stow 'N Go which is standard on GC SXT and NOT available on Odd EX.

    The third row on the Ody goes down(and from what I hear it's way easier) not many family guys are gonna need all the seats down. If I do I can take them out in 2 minutes!!BTW I've only had the rear seat down twice just to show how easy it is to do!! I have way more storage area back there compared to the DCX vans!

    If I wanted to drive most aggressively, the Odd VSC, Most powerful engine and side curtain airbags would be important even though these items are not important to me and most people who are defensive drivers.

    You maybe a defensive driver but you can't get out of all situations! Allot of the people I know who get into bad accidents are always saying what GOOD drivers they are I think they get careless! So if your driving down a two lane road at 50 and all the sudden a guy cuts right into your lane and there's a high sholder. If you go over you flip and if you stay on you hit offset. Boy I think you'd like side airbags with roolover protection!! Of course defensive driving skills would make the car stop immediately!

    Power Liftgate is optional on the GC SXT for $ 400 but NOT available on the Odd EX.

    Another one of those GEE Whiz thinks that will just break, I'm happy someone didn't push that on me!!
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    "Another one of those GEE Whiz thinks that will just break, I'm happy someone didn't push that on me!!"

    People used to say that about power seats, locks, moonroofs, etc. Now? They are conveniences, just like the power rear gate. One really doesn't understand until he lives with such conveniences. It's a low cost option for DCX vans with manual override *if* it breaks. Many people find it valuable. For every one of you, there are 2 other minivan buyers who wants a power liftgate. If those people were pleased with an Ody EX equipment, but really wanted the power liftgate, they'd have to pay $8k more for a Touring model and may not care about the other equipment in that package.
  • aaron_taaron_t Posts: 301
    Honda: Simple packages for simple minds. Give the buyer what we want J/K

    Ala cart options vs. packages/trim levels
    DCX vs. Honda

    There are pros and cons for each from both the producer and consumer viewpoint. As a buyer who would have to deal with a DCX dealer who orders what packages/equipment they want to sell, he has the same problem w/ Honda. It's just the manufacturer who decides that instead of the dealer. I don't see the difference, except DCX allows to you order more specifically what you want.

    If EX equipment + leather is all you cared about, GC SXT or T&C touring + leather group (give or take any other options) would have been just as easy to find. Maybe more difficult to negotiate with varying equipment, but just as easy to find.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    The dual power doors and power liftgate are of great value and convenience to many including myself. I would never consider a van without. The power side doors are great when picking the kids up from preschool. The kids are escorted out to the van and I push the power doors to let them in and then close them without leaving my seat. Have you ever dropped your wife off at the store and then pick her up when she has a handful of stuff? I push the power liftgate and she loads up the back. I dont have to get out and she doesn't have to put the stuff down to open the liftgate.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Odd power sliding doors are a good example while DC power sliding doors have a better design so they work easily if they should ever break.
    If power liftgate is not a good idea, why did Honda put it on the MOST expensive Odd Touring? :blush: Why does the Odd Touring have items that are NOT on the LX or EX but can be had on a much less expensive GC SE? (miles to empty and compass)? :confuse:
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    VSC alone could account for a decent chunk of that difference. Automotive news reported awhile back that stability control adds about $400 to the manufacturers cost, so figure $600-$800 to the consumer. The Honda also has a far more advanced navigation system.

    You need to take into consideration the DCX side also. It's not just VSC that costs extra. What about the cost of retooling an entire chasis at about $300 million for Stow N Go, additional cost for special seats, added assembly cost, the cost of having to build millions of variations vs. Honda five basic offerings etc..... Honda's Nav System is definitely more advanced but it probably saves them money, seeing that it's being used in every Acura/Honda platform with little modification, other than having a voice module on some. Where as DCX's is an after thought really, with much lower volume and limited platform use (i.e..The 300c/Magnum/Jeep navs are totally different units from different supplier).
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I don't believe there'll ever be a feature on a DCX product you'll admit to needing or enjoying!

    The third row on the Ody goes down(and from what I hear it's way easier) not many family guys are gonna need all the seats down. If I do I can take them out in 2 minutes!!BTW I've only had the rear seat down twice just to show how easy it is to do!! I have way more storage area back there compared to the DCX vans!

    Before I purchased my DCX, I tried the seats in the Honda and Toyota, the 3rd row seats all work basically the same, all just as easy. I'd love to time you taking out your seats and figuring out where to put them!!! I bet it's more like 20 minutes out, then another 20 minutes to get em back in!!!

    The sliding doors in the DCX van open manually a lot easier than Toyota or Honda.

    I'll take my 8-10 cubic feet of covered "Stow N Go" storage over a spare tire hole left over from previous generation Ody....Opps I meant Lazy Suzy storage!

    Another one of those GEE Whiz thinks that will just break, I'm happy someone didn't push that on me!!

    The only way someone could have push a power hatch on you would have been by pushing a $38,0000 Touring model on you since you can't get it any other way. Based on Honda's record with their power doors, it's probably a good thing anyways!

    VSC/VCM - more of those GEE Whiz things that will just break!!! I'll wait till the fat lady sings that it's ok before needing em!
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "I'll wait till the fat lady sins that it's ok before needing em!"

    According to all the mag rags, VSC is the greatest thing since the wheel. Since it is a fairly new technology there really isn't much info on the effect it has had. I question how effective it really is. Though if it works as advertised I would want it on my vehicle.You probably have better odds of being struck my lightening than needing VSC...if one is a sensible driver that is. But,ya know about the forest ranger that was struck by lightening ...something like fourteen times. :sick:

    I've only read about one incident here at Edmunds where someones VSC kicked in and helped them out of a slide(it sounded as if he were going to fast for the road conditions). VSC will probably progress much in the way airbags have. Starting out as optional equipment...then becoming standard equipment on pretty much all vehicles.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,231
    Actually, there is some significant data out there on stability systems. They've been around for quite a few years now on many models. IIHS has some reports comparing death/injury rates of newer models with stability control, vs older models without. Their conclusion was stability control reduces single-vehicle rollovers by over 50%. Single vehicle rollovers accunt for almost half of all vehicle deaths. SUVs/Trucks have the highest % of rollover deaths, however any vehicle can greatly benefit from stability control.

    Even those of us that drive defensively (i used to race, and tend to be quite aware of my surroundins) can still find themselves in situations they can't control. Anytime you leave the road in a high center of gravity vehicle like a minivan, you have significant risk of rolling over. The stability program corrects for things that is not humanly possible for a driver to correct. I'd be a fool to say "VSC is useless because I'm a defensive driver". Might as well throw the seatbelts, airbags, and ABS out the window as well?

    You really don't have to look any further than the test mags. When they get a car with stability control on the slalom, it's nearly impossible for them to get the vehicle loose.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,231
    You need to take into consideration the DCX side also. It's not just VSC that costs extra. What about the cost of retooling an entire chasis at about $300 million for Stow N Go, additional cost for special seats, added assembly cost, the cost of having to build millions of variations vs. Honda five basic offerings etc.....

    I don't think we really need to get into advanced R&D theory here. The point was the Honda has a directly more expensive standard feature than the DC. The fact that Honda is making money hand over fist with similar R&D cost, moving significantly less vehicles, and offer zero manufacturer discounts certainly says something.

    I'm sure the limited models save Honda quite a bit on manufacturing. Some folks really like it from a shopper standpoint. I don't, but I've yet to ever buy a new vehicle that had everything exactly the way I want it. They all come with some sort of package baggage or they'll never build you one even if it's possible on paper (i.e. Toyota/Lexus :mad: ) I was miffed that the T&C can't have a moonroof with side airbags?? That's just silly!
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    I don't believe there'll ever be a feature on a DCX product you'll admit to needing or enjoying!

    I do like the price! And stow and go is cool just not needed by me!! I like to play the other side of Hans sarcastic propaganda!

    The only way someone could have push a power hatch on you would have been by pushing a $38,0000 Touring model on you since you can't get it any other way. Based on Honda's record with their power doors, it's probably a good thing anyways!

    Like I need a power hatch and really expensive tires that noone can change! I think in a few years I may go with runflat tires because they are great for safty but if it's so hard to replace them then that about throws the atvantages out the door!

    VSC/VCM - more of those GEE Whiz things that will just break!!! I'll wait till the fat lady sings that it's ok before needing em!

    You know I'm just toying with ya! ;) I know how much you like to bust on new technology!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Almost reminds me of ZICAM - the flu medicine you take when you feel a cold coming on and it supposedly shortens the length of the cold? How do you know how long and bad the cold would have been in the first place? :)

    In 5 years of having DSC (Dynamic Stability Control)on my BMW, I believe it kicked in once on an exit ramp with snow/ice.....my back end (RWD with no snow tires) started to slip out, and it felt like nails popped out of my tires and dug into pavement.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    "IIHS has some reports comparing death/injury rates of news models with stability control..."

    If people with stability control are being injured and killed...then how could VSC be doing it's job? I believe you misread the study. The study was based on projections and computer simulations of accidents with and without VSC.

    "I'd be a fool....."

    I agree. Drive nonfoolishly and the odds of ever needing them will be miniscule. Though if you asked people what they preferred (either,or) ...I would think the vast majority would choose seatbelts and airbags over VSC.

    "You really don't have to look any further than the test mags."

    Now you're talking. I subscribe to several mag rags and have never seen any field test studies. I would be interested to see some mag names and publication dates...or links...if it is not to inconvenient. ;)
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,231
    If people with stability control are being injured and killed...then how could VSC be doing it's job? I believe you misread the study. The study was based on projections and computer simulations of accidents with and without VSC.

    Nope, the study compares death/injure rates on models with ESC vs models without. Here's the linky: http://www.iihs.org/sr/pdfs/sr4001.pdf

    I subscribe to Car and Driver and if you read many of their articles, they comment that a certain vehicle was slower through the slalom because it was equpiped with ESC and wouldn't allow them to aggresively toss the vehicle. Sometimes they go into more details, sometimes they don't. Here's a good article though by one of the editors: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=9036 pay attention to the first paragraph on page two. Slippery conditions (which even the best defensive drive can stumble upon) was where ESC made a huge difference.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Thanks for the links. Though I certainly hope VSC works as advertised, I still think we need about 4 or 5 years to know for sure to what extent. The NHTSA study did show 42% fewer single vehicle accidents with those equipped with VSC. But, as of 2003 only 7.4% of vehicles were equipped with VSC. I believe most people who have VSC are saftey minded to begin with(as currently VSC is only a option on most models and not standard)So, the NHSTA study may be flawed in that it may be measuring crash statistics from the average driver(non VSC) to those who are more careful and saftey conscious(those who spend more for all the saftey features & VSC).

    Given the choice I would certainly take VSC...it's good insurance. But, ya know...it just sounds toooo good to be true. ;)
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,231
    If you read the fine print, the study was supposed to only compare EXACT models where the only difference was ESC vs non-VSC. So for example they could compared the 1999-2001 model Chevy Tahoes to the 2002 and up models that had ESC. I'm sure there are some variables that make it less than an optimal study, however the results are rather substantial. Having significant cockpit time, I can see in theory how it could substantially help. If you leave the track at high speeds it's quite amazing the amount of control you lose even in a high performance vehicle. I can only imagine how bad it would be in a normal car, minivan, SUV.
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    hanks for the links. Though I certainly hope VSC works as advertised, I still think we need about 4 or 5 years to know for sure to what extent. The NHTSA study did show 42% fewer single vehicle accidents with those equipped with VSC. But, as of 2003 only 7.4% of vehicles were equipped with VSC. I believe most people who have VSC are saftey minded to begin with(as currently VSC is only a option on most models and not standard)So, the NHSTA study may be flawed in that it may be measuring crash statistics from the average driver(non VSC) to those who are more careful and saftey conscious(those who spend more for all the saftey features & VSC).

    Actually there's been about 5 studies of real cars, one done by DCX looking at 1999 non ESC to 2000 models ESC Mercedes. They all come to about the same conclution more than 30% less fatalities and less severe injuries. BTW DCX is going to have all there SUV's with ESC by next year. I think they know it has a big advantage!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    The long options list available on DC and Toyota would be nice if you could order exactly what you wanted and there was no price compromise. I do not believe that is reasonably possible. You must choose from option packages that the dealers WANT to sell and then try to figure out what each different one is worth to you.

    Almost 100% of the new cars I've purchased were ordered exactly as I wanted, without hassles or confusion, and with out price compromise. The only time this doesn't work is when you need a car TODAY! but even then many dealers can locate what you want within a few days. For my DCX Minivan, I needed the factory tow package. The dealer I purchased from happened to have basically what I needed (plus $400 power hatch that I LOVE, and Sunroof which is ok). Other dealers could have had something with Tow package the next day by trading with another dealer.

    So not only is it possible to get exactly what you want, but is done everyday all over this country.

    You must choose from option packages that the dealers WANT to sell and then try to figure out what each different one is worth to you.

    This is not the case at all with DCX....you have for DGC - SE, SXT and SXT Special Edition. They come with many of the basics you need i.e...A/C, windows etc.. Then, if it's not too challenging, you can add individual options like upgraded stereo, power hatch, DVD etc... The DCX vans are very much like Honda's in terms of trim level, but unlike Honda you can customize the DCX van easily. For example...You can only get a power hatch or adjustable peddals on Honda Ody Touring - it's a take all or nothing deal. Some people like the simplicity of just having to choose a color and a package. Dealers will sell anything, anytime!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I don't think we really need to get into advanced R&D theory here. The point was the Honda has a directly more expensive standard feature than the DC.

    That's my point exactly...there's a cost to everything. I work in automotive electronics, with a supplier who supplyes Honda with Voice Nav modules, clusters etc...."advance technology". Just because some of these techologies are electronics doesn't make them expensive...just look at a McDonald's happy meal sometime. You get electronic games for FREE!!! (made in China of course). Honda's VSC, which is used on Pilot, Ridgeline, MDX and Ody is all one of the same! It's a module box ($2), PCB $2, a connector ($0.50 - my piece of the pie), add some electronics...say another $75 - $100 max? Mark it up for OEM, say $125. The toughtest part is integrating in into your automotive archietecture (ABS, Engine control, tranny etc..), and even this is simple. You do it first for MDX, and the others are icing on the cake. Then look at DCX...you can get VSC on trucks, or large cars....all very different vehicles.

    My point was DCX has a directly more expensive standard feature i.e...Stow N Go, then Honda also. I'd bet VSC and Stow N Go would cost about the same. Part of Honda's price advantage can be contributed to lack of union wages and long term cost that DCX is burdened with. Don't get me wrong, Honda pays fair wages. I've been to many DCX/Ford plants - UAW wages are out of line with reality, half the workers are worth half of what they're making - especially when you consider overall quality. I know guys making $60/hour with no education, thinking they deserve it, entitlted to it!!! I think the current Delphi issues will actually help long term....getting wages inline with reality (global economy etc..).
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