Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

12526283031224

Comments

  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "Our T&C eL also has disc brake ABS on all 4 wheels."


    I did not mean to imply the eL did not come with ABS. Also, my information was from the Dodge spec sheet on the Grand Caravan, as it said the eL had rear drums ( http://dodge.com/pdfs/caravan.pdf ). Apparently, the T&C has slightly different specs than the GC. It also showed that the GC eL did not have traction control.


    I don't necessarily doubt your claims about acceleration. If you do find comparative testing from any auto mag that shows the 180 hp 3.3L in the Grand Caravan eL (or equivalent) to be faster than the 240 hp 3.5L in the Odyssey LX (or EX), please post. I test drove the 2001 models, where the Odyssey had an engine with less power and torque than the current Odyssey. As I posted, my findings did (this time) agree with Consumer Reports.


    Congrats on the new vehicle, BTW.

  • dave210dave210 Posts: 238
    Sorry for assuming you bought the Honda van because it was a Honda, but at least for me, I value the Honda name in the fact that I know I'll get a product that will last me many years and it's good reputation doesn't hurt at all either. I mean there is a 2001 Honda Civic in my driveway :-)

    I'm not sure if you thought I was implying you bought a Honda because it was the posh thing for minivan owners to do nowadays, but I just assumed you bought your Odyssey with the intention you were making a very wise decision with a great product, which would be a Honda. But I can understand your take on the whole brand loyalty thing.

    I guess I am a little two faced though, because I think of myself as mostly a Japanese car kind of guy and usually think little of many of the American cars I see on the road.

    I've had Toyota's for the past 21 years (All completely trouble free which is amazing) and I just got my son a new Honda Civic. I keep on buying Toyota's and Honda cars because I know I'm getting a good product from a solid name. And when I say solid name, I don't mean that out of snobbery. People don't buy 200,000 + Accords or Camry's to look cool, they buy them because it's a Toyota or Honda product, no questions asked. (My opinion of course)

    The reason why I don't stop buying Chrysler vans is because of I guess a little brand loyalty, but also because now that I know what you can get on Chrysler vans but not on Honda or Toyota vans, there is really no incentive for me to switch.

    I got hooked on Chrysler because in 1988, there was basically the King of Minivans - Chrysler or the Ford Aerostar. My first Chrysler van was in 1988 and I haven't looked back since. Until something catastrophic happens that would make me loath Chrysler forever, I suspect I'll keep on buying there vans for a long time to come.
  • dchoppdchopp Posts: 256
    Has anyone out there leased a TC or Oddy and what kind of prices did you get?
  • The Odyssey HAS padded arm rests! Why can't you get that? I have no clue...
  • dchoppdchopp Posts: 256
    Hey Carleton!! How do you like the performance of the triple zone temp. controls. I always thought the duel temp. controls was a lot of crap till I rented a D.C. that had them. Its a great selling point.--DCH
  • trying to decide between the two. like comfort of t&c but worried transmission reliability/longevity. also wondering about overall safety
  • dchoppdchopp Posts: 256
    Don't forget the 7 year 100000 mile power train warranty that covers the transmission. I think there a lot more reliable than a few years back.
  • we drive alot in the mountains, does all wheel drive make a big difference over front wheel drive ie safety,etc
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "we drive alot in the mountains, does all wheel drive make a big difference over front wheel drive ie safety,etc"


    A lot depends on how advanced the AWD system is. The simplest AWD systems have no locking or limited slip mechanism in any of the differentials. With such a system, you can get stuck just as easily as a front wheel drive vehicle. More advanced systems add traction control or limited slip differentials, and thus more wheels must lose traction for you to get stuck. Better AWD systems should always be better than a front wheel drive vehicle, traction control or not.


    I don't know the details of the system on the T&C, but quality snow tires or chains on a FWD vehicle (preferably with traction control) should do very well in all but the worst situations.


    Our Odyssey (stock Michelin Symmetry all season tires) does very well in Chicago snow, but it is very flat here. Even so, our Subaru Outback gets going much quicker in unplowed or slippery areas. Our Outback does have a slip limiting mechanism in the center and rear differential, so three wheels must lose traction for the vehicle to spin and get stuck.


    Also see:


    Traction Control vs. Versatrak


    AWD vs Traction Control

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    When I was working for MBUSA (before the merger), we had several Chrysler MiniVans in our shop for evaluation. Overall, the engineers were most impressed with the design and construction of the vehicle. The area that generated the most interest was the simple and very effective AWD unit that Chrysler had contracted the Austrian company "Steyr-Daimler-Puch Fahrzeugtechnik" (SFT) to design and build. For those of you who have never of this company, they are known for extremely capable heavy duty military and commercial vehicles.

    I cannot remember the specifics of how the system transferred torque fore/aft and left/right, however, that system (currently in use on the DC MiniVans) is one which is capable of (as the Subaru ads say), “Transferring the power from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip.” That said, an AWD MiniVan from DC is superior to ANY FWD MiniVan (regardless of manufacturer or traction control options) when it comes to motivating it in snow or slippery conditions.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    Most Subaru vehicles have only a limited slip mechanism in the center differential. Thus, if one front and one rear wheel spin, the vehicle is stuck. Similarly, a traction control system is a low-speed version of a limited slip differential meaning that it requires BOTH front wheels to slip for the vehicle to be stuck. In either case, two spinning wheels leaves you stuck. More advanced systems might mean you must have 3 or 4 wheels to spin to be stuck. In addition, the type of differential itself can make a difference. Traction control is probably the weakest form of limited slip device, requiring the longest amount of time to transfer power to the other wheel, and having limitations on how much power can be transferred. Viscous limited slips are probably just a bit better, but also very inexpensive to produce. The best systems are usually some type of gearing or clutch actuated. Torsen is a name that comes to mind for making very good limited slip differentials that respond quickly and effectively.

    Without knowing the exact details of an AWD system, it would be a pretty large assumption to know how much better than a FWD+traction control it might be.

    The company that designed the Chrysler may be very good. On the other hand, even Porsche was known to make a vehicle now and then that wasn't up to the standards most people expected (914)...
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, one gets the impression from reading your post that if Chrysler is in any way involved with a vehicle, it can't be good.

    Come on man, give credit where credit is due. There is not one single FWD MiniVan in the world that can move through snow or other marginal traction environments as well as an AWD equipped DC MiniVan.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • In all the posts 4aodge has made about the Odyssey's arm rests, he has never explicitly stated that he was talking about padded front door armrests. Instead, he has made the blanket statement that the Odyssey does "not have padded armrests," and that is untrue. The Odyssey does have moveable padded armrests on all four bench seats; it does not have padding on the door armrests. I guess I don't notice the door armrests, because the van is so big, I can't put my left arm on it, anyway.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    Fine, than the Honda Odyssey lacks padded armrest (a standard feature on even the lowest of Chrysler models) on the front passenger and driver seats...
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "Hmmm, one gets the impression from reading your post that if Chrysler is in any way involved with a vehicle, it can't be good."

    You may have inferred that, but I did not imply it. In fact, if you read back a bit, you'll notice that we did own a Chrysler (Cirrus) and thought it was a decent vehicle for the most part.

    With regard to the AWD, I admitted that I did not know what type of AWD system is in the Chrysler minivans. Without knowing that, I find it hard to make a conclusion like:

    "There is not one single FWD MiniVan in the world that can move through snow or other marginal traction environments as well as an AWD equipped DC MiniVan.:

    You are probably right, but it may not be as big of an advantage as you indicate. To answer the original poster's question, it would be nice to know what type of limited slip device (if any) is in each of the three differentials. If it is similar to Chrysler's Jeep Quadra Drive system in all three differentials, I'd be very impressed. Maybe they use something similar to a Torsen in the center and rear, that would be impressive also. Even a computer-controlled hydraulic system like on some newer Audi and Subaru models would be very good. On the other hand, if there's simply a viscous limited slip in the center differential with nothing in the front or rear and no traction control, I wouldn't be very impressed. Better than FWD and traction control perhaps, but not much.

    I stand by my claim that a FWD vehicle with traction control and quality snow tires will do the job in most winter conditions. For hilly areas like the original poster mentions, a good AWD system may be necessary. Maybe that applies to the Chrysler minivans, maybe not. Perhaps one of the Chrysler advocates can provide a link to the details of the AWD system they use?
  • The Odyssey lacks padded armrests on the front driver and passenger doors only. The controls for the front and rear windows are located on the driver side armrest. The controls for the mirrors, power sliding doors, traction control system, and cruise control are located on the left side of the dash.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Some companies do a better job at padding their armrests and other companies do a better job at padding their driver and passengers. Me if given the choice will take padding the driver and passengers as I'm tall enough where my left arm don't touch the door armrest, and the right one is padded.
  • I also find the padding on the door armrest irrelevant because my arm doesn't reach it, either. I just wanted to be sure 4aodge was not misleading people.

    I chose the Odyssey because of it's size, safety ratings, and standard equipment. I also need the extra power. I live in the mountains about 30 miles east of San Diego. My home is at 2100 ft. elevation. At least 4 times a week I drive to and from sea level at highway speeds (70 mph here). The last hill into town rises about 900 ft in a little over a mile. (In fact, just going to my friend's house on the other side of our little town is a +/- 800 ft. elevation change). I needed a van that, fully loaded, could get me up the hills without getting run over. The Odyssey is that van.

    I am very pleased with my choice and am glad you are happy with yours.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    Methinks dmathews3 was also referring to safety ratings, tongue-in-cheek...
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    jmnygaard said: ). I needed a van that, fully loaded, could get me up the hills without getting run over.
    I can remember in 95 on our trip to Yellowstone in a Chevy 454 pickup pulling a 29ft. 5th wheel getting behind those oh so slow now DC original style mini vans who couldn't get out of their own way. Here I am weighing almost 15,000lbs. and I could pass those things. To this day I think that is the main reason I don't care for DC vans. Stupid, I know, but some things are just hard to change. If DC vans prove out to be more reliable than past ones and I'm in the market for another van and they have on board navigation I will try to deal on one even though padded armrests do ME no good and triple mode heating I would never need.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,309
    Having had both a '69 VW bus and a 2.5L four-banger '89 Voyager, I have to agree. I was able to get over the passes in the Rockies in the right lane in the Voyager (versus the shoulder in the VW).

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Add my 88 LaBaron Convertible with 4 banger. It wouldn't even spin the tires in snow. Wish I'd I had waited and gotten the 6cyl.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,309
    PBS' MotorWeek Announces 2002 Drivers' Choice Awards

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    Thats perfect evidence that the over-hyped Honda Odyssey does not walk away with all of the awards...
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,309
    Heh, don't thank/blame me - I just try to post some pertinent links :-)

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • I am glad to see the DC vans voted first but looking at the other picks, I wonder... Best Convertible - Ford Thunderbird (I love the T-Bird, but is it the best?) Best Sport Sedan - Subaru Impreza WRX(I am glad it is not another award for BMW but Impreza?)Best Performance Car - Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (I guess they didn't test drive other Porsches except the GT2)...Oh well, this is why car makers make their cars and consumers buy based on their needs, taste and how deep their pockets are.
  • dchoppdchopp Posts: 256
    You have mentioned in several post that the Ody has more room behind the third seat. The grand caravans look pretty roomy also. I will take a better look next month at the auto show.
  • Last Friday I picked up our new queen size sleigh bed in the Odyssey. It came in three boxes (12 x 45 x 70; 10 x 23 x 70; 7 x 14 x 77). All we had to do was flip the magic seat down and remove one of the center row seats. The boxes all fit with room to spare. If I had not had to take my daughter in her car seat, it would have been even easier, for I could have taken out both middle row seats and layed the boxes flat. The guy had told me on the phone that I should bring my husband's truck, for the bed wouldn't fit in a minivan. When I opened the back of the Odyssey, he said, "Wow, there's a lot of room in there!" He couldn't believe we got it in.

    One reason we bought the Odyssey is because we live so far from Home Depot, etc., that whenever we needed to buy anything large, we had to take the car and the truck. We needed something big and attractive. Getting the DVD player that my daughter (and husband) can watch without my having to listen to it was also a plus.

    The Odyssey is not "over-hyped." It is a very good vehicle with some very positive features that are not matched by any other van. This does not mean that it is the best for everyone or even the best overall. The same thing can be said for DC vans. It all depends on what you're looking for.
  • I have been having a hard time deciding between a T&C or Odyssey.I have been a long time Toyota and Honda sedan owner and even have a small deposit on a 2002 Odyssey with the more powerful twin-cam engine and five-speed trans but everytime I drive past the neighbor's silver Town and Country LX I go into second guess mode. I have test driven both a used '99 Odyssey (no 2001 demos or new ones available to test drive at the time)and a 2001 Chrysler Town and Country LX. The Honda seemed to have a lot of road and wind noise with both a skinny steering wheel and an indifferent drivers seat.I know Honda's 2002 model is supposed to have addressed both noise, vibration,harshness and seat comfort. The Chrysler LX seemed more like a quiet smooth limo with a fairly isolated ride and firmly bolstered, comfortable seats.The fold-down armrests really seemed to add to the comfort level. What makes the choice no easier is either paying Honda's MSRP for their build-quality reputation (for their sedans at least) or having at least the chance to get several thousands off the sticker of what seems like a more quiet and comfortable, if less technically advanced on paper (overhead valve engine, no independent rear susp) DC van with at least two, maybe three very good frequency-of-repair years behind them.To anyone who has recently been driving in a 2002 Odyssey, if you can report on the wind and tire noise at speed it would be most welcome.Also, if anybody has a "good" real world price on a Chysler Town and Country LX AWD or a Dodge Grand Caravan Sport AWD or ES in cloth that would be very helpful. Thanks for reading the long post.
  • The road noise on my 2002 Odyssey is louder than on my sister-in-law's 2002 Sienna. I don't know how it compares to the 2002 T&C. I don't find the noise excessive, or even bothersome, however. You might ask this question on the Odyssey board, as there was some discussion about this not too long ago. Apparently, drivers are having good results by changing the tires. Like I said, it doesn't really bother me. (Of course, the wind is gusting to 80mph here today, and I don't think any vehicle can soundproof against that!)
This discussion has been closed.