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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolva.asp


        Of course cassitc would be more impressed with the Odyssey after having a Windstar that soured him on any American brand since the Windstar had very little cargo space, 3rd row difficult to access, etc.

       DC sold 36,305 minivans in January 2002. Honda sold 10,796 while Ford only sold 10,405 Windstars.

       I imagine you will be glad to get rid of your Found On Road Dead Windstar. Good luck. Either the Odyssey or any DC minivan would be far superior to the Ford Windstar.

  • The headrests go in the side cargo net pocket. They fit very nicely. As for the power doors not moving well manually...they're power doors. They don't need to move manually.

    It's good that, despite the problems you've had with your current vehicle, you are still a loyal Dodge customer. Just be sure when you are comparing vehicles that you are truly comparing vehicles. For example, a cargo net, steering wheel audio controls, CD player, traction control system, side airbags, and remote anti-theft device are all standard on the Odyssey. You have to pay extra for these on the DGC ES. I'm also surprised that on most other minivans, the heater for the leather seats is extra. This is included in the Odyssey. Sometimes, what seems like a good deal really isn't.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    "The only reason that people buy more Chrysler vans than Odyssey's is that there are far more of them available"

    Oh, common. Do you really want me to go through the list of comfot and convienience features that Chrysler vans have and the boaring, bland Odyssey does not? I guess so.

    Tri zone climate control, power center console, auto dimming interior and exterior mirrors, heated windshield and mirrors, trip computer, power liftgate and doors with obstacle detection system, Infinity sound system, dual power/heated seats w/memory, adjustable pedals, real leather interior, tire pressure monitor, 50/50 rear bench seating, gorchery bag hooks, auto locking doors, fog lamps, and an attractive exterior.

    Now tell me that the only reason why people buy Chrysler over Honda is because they are more readily available. All of those features combined with excellent prices and availability make DC minivans a very attractive choice. Just sitting in a 2001 Town & Country Limited w/suede interior and in dash CD changer really made me think how it is in a class of it's own among minivans. No other van out there, including the Honda, offers the same ammount of refinement and luxuries the Town & Country does. As Chrysler says, they've created a segment within a segment. Thus, there will always be a market out there the Town & Country will dominate in that the boaring, boxy, bland Odyssey will never be able to touch.

    BTW, if people really want an Odyssey and it really is as good as people say it is, than they wouldnt mind waiting on a list of buyers to get one. I know I wouldn't hesitate to wait on a list for a new 2002 Town & Country...
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    Cassitc said:

    ."I currently own a 95 Windstar and we've been pretty happy with it overall."

    Carleton1 responded:

    "Of course cassitc would be more impressed with the Odyssey after having a Windstar that soured him on any American brand..."

    Carleton1, did you even read his comments?

    In any case, maybe Cassitc is impressed with Odyssey since it maintains the standards of minivan safety started by Ford with the Windstar in 1995 (5-star NHTSA results and a "Good" IIHS Offset result even in back then). Seven model years later, and GM and Chrysler still haven't matched Ford in minivan crashworthiness. It only took Toyota until 1998 and Honda until 1999 to do it...

    Luxury trinkets or safety, everyone has their own priorities. But feel free to slam his Windstar if it makes you feel better.
  • usa1usa1 Posts: 11
    The main reason DC sells 3x more vans than Honda *IS* because of availability. I'm not saying that Honda would sell as many as DC if production were equal, but supply and demand are the main reasons Honda does not sell more. Honda has made the conscious decision to limit their vans sales (at least for the next few years) at around 150K vans per year.

    When my wife and I were shopping for vans, we looked long and hard at all the makes. We ended up with the Honda because of nearly every review stating that it was the best, positive feedback from other owners, and a better price.

    We had to wait quite some time for the van and it was VERY tempting to buy another van sitting on the lot of other dealers.

    Believe it or not, the EX model we got was a better value, at full MSRP, than a discounted Grand Caravan. To get the options we wanted (pretty loaded Honda EX vs GC ES), the Caravan was around 33K. Take a 3K discount and you are still higher than the Odd at 27K. Throw in $600 for the extra powertrain warrenty from DC and $2K for interest savings from 0% and they prices are almost the same. Now look at resale value and there is no contest.

    Mark
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    If we use the DC posters mentality of DC vans are better than Odyssey because they sell more what does that say about the rest of the DC products, that they are all junk? Caddys sell more than Mercedes, Ford/Chevy outsell Dodge trucks and so on. Mercedes are as good if not better than the Caddy but not if we use the van mentality. Same for the dodge trucks which are at least as good as their counterparts.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Given all of the negative rhetoric I have read about both of our current vehicles (1998 GC Sport & 1999 328i), I must really be a loser, because I am about to replace the GC with a 2002 T&C Limited and the 328i with a 2002 530i. Oh well, I guess I will just have to live with it. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    As long as you do your research and buy what meets your needs, you won't end up a loser.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Trust me, my last post was written VERY toung in cheek. For our purposes, the T&C Limited and the 530i are the perfect vehicles.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    dmathews, I have never used the fact that DC sells more minivans than ANYONE else as a reason to say they are better than the competition. Saying that I have would be putting words in my mouth, which I don't appreciate. However, I have suggested that the reason why DC sells so many minivans is because MORE PEOPLE prefer DC minivans over others such as the Odyssey, for whatever reasons. Just this month alone, DC sold almost 30k more minivans than Honda (or anyone else). That is amazing and I think it shows that people still prefer Chrysler over the competition when it comes to minivans.

    Basicly, people don't buy what they dont want or wont be satisfied with. And as I've said before, if it ment waiting three months to get a new 2002 Town & Country, I would gladly and patiently put my name on the list, despite the long deliverly time. If the Odyssey is such a spectacular vehicle, than why not wait for it?

    BTW, I KNOW for a fact that those near 30k minivan buyers did not settle for a lowly DC minivan just beacuse they couldnt find a flawless Honda Odyssey in time for their purchase. Saying so would be rediculous, although I wouldn't put it past many DC bashers here at TROLL hall...
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I didn't mean you personally, but you just did all but say that. Maybe you have a little Johnny Cockrun in you.(Lawyer) Some people here do say that the DC vans are better or so many people wouldn't buy them so I just used the same way of thinking to make a point. The reason DC sells so many is because they were the first, some people will not buy foregn for any reason, and Honda doesn't want to make more of them which if they did would take away from DC. Same as when DC had the only convertible for a number of years, now a large number of companies are making convertibles which was bound to hurt DC.
  • usa1usa1 Posts: 11
    The DC eX vs the Honda EX might be a better comparison. Very close, but with no discount of special financing from DC (at least when we were looking) on the eX meant the prices were still slightly higher on the DC eX because we wanted power doors on both sides and side air bags. Since the dealers didn't have many eX to look at, we never found one with these options. Anyhow, these options makes the eX a bit more. Granted, the power rear hatch would have been neat and make the MSRP a wash, but I'll take the 5 speed auto, smoother engine, foldaway seat, and higher resale value.

    Mark
  • Carleton1:
    I listed these in an earlier post, but perhaps you missed them. These are items that are standard on the Odyssey EX that are not standard on the GC eX:
    side air bags ($360)
    steering wheel audio controls ($70)
    dual power doors (~$350)
    cargo net
    rear 3 pt belt and 3 3rd row headrests
    remote anti-theft
    engine immobilizer
    5 speed auto
    more horsepower
    more room
    better crash tests

    As for you, Adam:
    First, learn to use your spell checker. Your spelling is atrocious. Second, please check your facts before repeating them on board after board. The Odyssey HAS obstacle detection for the doors and real leather. And the heaters for the leather seats are included in the price, not extra, as in most other minivans. The Odyssey also HAS grocery bag hooks. This is not as big of a deal in an Odyssey as in other minivans, however, because of the deep well necessary for the magic seat. This is to say, our groceries do not roll all over the van if they spill out of the bags, because they are contained in the well.

    Where I live, there are no incentives on the GC eX, so the difference in price, with options on the GC, is less than $500. That is a price I will gladly pay for more horsepower, more room, and a safer ride.
  • Here are the items the 2002 Grand Caravan eX has that are NOT on the 2002 Odyssey EX:

    1. $400 LOWER MSRP.(Same if GC eX has optional driver side power sliding door).
    2. Separately controlled Temperature for Driver and Front Passenger (found on most luxury sedans).
    3. Compass/Outside Temperature.
    4. Trip Computer.
    5. Heating coils at base of windshield.
    6. Power Liftgate.
    7. MORE Torque.
    8. Infinity 10 speaker sound system (Ody has 6)
    9. CD AND Cassette player.(Ody CD only)
    10.Powered, Removeable Center Console.
    11.Automatic Locking Power Door Locks.
    12. MORE maximum cargo space (167.9 cu ft GC vs 146.1 cu ft Ody)
    13. Padded armrests on front doors.
    14. Headlamp OFF delay.

    With a GC eX a person can also have a FULL size spare tire. The GC eX also has grocery bag hooks. The reason you will not find a discount on the GC eX is because the difference in Invoice and MSRP is $1682 on the GC eX whereas the Honda dealer has $1000 LARGER profit margin with $2682 difference between Invoice and MSRP.(IF Edmund's Pricing guide is accurate).

    I have driven Odyssey and DC minivans many times and feel they are a virtual tie for quality, ride, comfort, performance, etc. The choice between the two really gets down to which features are most important to the individual buyer.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "YES...I read all of cassitc's comments....contrary to you and your troll friend's policies"


    The poster said they were pleased with their Windstar, then you responed that he was soured on American products and trolled even further by calling it a "Found on Road Dead Windstar". Troll you say? Pot. Kettle. Black.


    "And I also compared the Injury Claim Data sent to me by USAA that showed Chrysler minivans had a LOWER injury rate claim than did the 5 Star rated Windstar.

        Real world data is more significant and reliable than how well a company can design vehicles to perform in a crash test. Chrysler minivans are designed to drive well and AVOID crashes whereas it appears the Windstar was designed to do well in the crash test...but does not do as well when driven in the real world."



    Yeah, you bring this up from time to time. Yet, you never answer the questions people ask when you do. Let's try again:


    1) How do you separate driver profile from the element of crashworthiness in this data?


    2) If you look at the data, you will notice significant differences between identical twin vehicles like Villager/Quest or T&C/Grand Caravan. If this data is a good measure of the real world, why are twin vehicles different at all?


    3) Insurance companies base rates on claims data. If someone gets a discount with company A, then switches to Company B which does not have a discount based on their claims history, does their car instantly become less safe?


    Claims data is not a directly useful resource for crashworthiness comparisons. It varies based on driver profile, and from company to company. If a vehicle has a much higher than average injury or death rate, then that might raise a red flag. As it turns out, most minivans have rates lower than the average vehicle. Only Aerostar has a higher than average death rate, and no minivan had a worse than average injury rate. Ironically, the Caravan/Grand Caravan and Voyager/Grand Voyager were among the few minivans that were not substantially better than average for injury losses. Finally, the data does not reflect the most recent model years 2000, 2001 and 2002 especially where vehicles have been redesigned. See also:


     http://www.iihs.org/sr_ddr/sr3507_t2.htm#vl


     http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_wagon.htm


    Every minivan has advantages and disadvantages, and not everyone has safety as a top priority in a vehicle choice. You're free to dismiss safety evaluations that don't support your vehicle choice, but don't presume the rest of us will use your distorted logic as well. Crash tests and rollover ratings are directly comparable vehicle to vehicle, and have no element of driver profile or claims variances.

    Personally, when I see anything below a 4-star NHTSA crash/rollover rating or worse than an "Acceptable" IIHS rating, I have serious questions as to whether the manufacturer made a safe design for angles and momentums that may differ from the crash tests. The paramaters of these crash tests are long established and well known to manufacturers. If they can't design to do well in standardized tests used widely by the media and consumers, why should I trust them to design for other scenarios?

    Obviously, your mileage may vary. Sienna, Odyssey and Windstar do well in all these comparisons, even the death and injury data I linked above.

  • Ody EX has the MOST Horsepower while GC eX has the MOST Torque. Ody EX has 18/25 while GC is slightly less at 18/24 while the poorly engineered Kia Sedona with LESS HP and Torque, less passenger space, LESS cargo space, has an atrocious 15/20 fuel economy rating.
    The much larger, boxy VW Vanagon gets even better fuel economy than the small, lesser Sedona.
  • I agree...it depends on what is important to the individual buyer.

    BTW, can you get an optional DVD or navigation system on the GC eX? I don't think they were available last year when I was looking. I got the DVD on the Odyssey EX, and it's great.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Well I see he still didn't comment on your questions even though he posted right after you. Must be the horse blinders. Only sees what they want and tells what they want.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    The links I provided earlier on injury and death rates are from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (Funded by its member companies including USAA, see http://www.iihs.org/support.htm ) and HLDI.


    The NHTSA also compiles data about Insurance costs, based only on the IIHS/HLDI data for damage susceptability. The results are normalized to an overall average of 100 for all vehicles. For the minivan/wagon category, 69 is average. Odyssey, Windstar and Sienna are all better than the category and overall average. The Chrysler vans are also below the overall average, but not the category average.


    This doesn't necessarily contradict Carleton1's information from the USAA. The USAA obviously has different claims experience than all the companies tabulated by the HLDI and NHTSA.


    Finally, the NHTSA says this about using insurance premiums for safety comparisons:


    "In setting insurance premiums, insurance companies mainly rely on factors that are not directly related to the vehicle itself (except for its value). Rather, they mainly consider driver characteristics (such as age, gender, marital status, and driving record), the geographic area in which the vehicle is driven, how many miles are traveled, and how the vehicle is used. Therefore, to obtain complete information about insurance premiums, you should contact insurance companies or their agents directly.


    Insurance companies do not generally adjust their premiums on the basis of data reflecting the crashworthiness of different vehicles. However, some companies adjust their premiums for personal injury protection and medical payments coverage if the insured vehicle has features that are likely to improve its crashworthiness, such as air bags."


    Just another thing to consider if you believe insurance premiums or injury/death/collision rates are a good indicator of crashworthiness on their own.

  • What is your purpose for being such a basher of Sedona?. Over 20,000 new Sedona owners certainly aren't as miserable as you. You certainly gain no respect. I can't believe they allow you to post. Are you paid off or whatoh adolescent one?
  • Facts or bashing?
    Does the Kia Sedona have THE poorest EPA rating at 15/20 while the larger, more boxy VW Eurovan is rated at 17/20?
    Is the Odyssey rated at 18/25?
    Does the T&C 3.8L have an 18/24 rating as shown on page 14 of Model 2002 Fuel Economy Guide?
    Does the Odyssey have the MOST HP at 240?
    What minivan has more torque than the 245 Ft Lbs of DC 3.8L?
    Is it a fact that the Odyssey and GC/T&C have more space inside than a Sedona?
    Does the Sedona have a control for the driver to open or close side rear quarter windows?
    Can the driver control the temperature of the rear heater in the Sedona?
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    jmnygaard said:

    "rear 3 pt belt and 3 3rd row headrests"

    Good point. Without a center rear headrest and 3-point seatbelt, that seating position is only useful for a carseat. Adults and chidren in belt-positioning boosters require lap/shoulder belts and adequate head restraints. Many vehicles have had lap/shoulder belts in the center rear for years; it always surprises me when a brand new design lacks them.

    The auto show was encouraging. Many new designs, even from non-luxury makes, had rear center lap/shoulder belts. Some still lacked adequate head support for adults.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    The problem is, no matter how good you are, there is always the unknown of "the other guy". Especially with the advent of monster SUVs and cellphones.


    Built-in child seats are a nice convenience, but have some serious shortcomings as a primary child restraint. I wouldn't mind having a built-in carseat for an emergency, but I have no doubt that my aftermarket seats are as good or better for a variety of reasons. See:


    http://www.car-safety.org/carguide.html

    Some built-in child seats aren't all they're cracked up to be:

    http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_984090,00.html

  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    Another one of your messages seems to have disappeared.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    May be a good idea for some but after a couple years when they are of no use then you're stuck with a seat that isn't fit to sit in for very long. To me the built in seats are a drawback.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,902
    I believe this topic is about Honda v Dodge/Chrysler minivans. Let's keep the Kia bashing/defense out of here.

    kirstie_h
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  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    One aspect of the Odyssey is the "magic" seat. The reason that the D-C minivans do not have a magic seat is that they offer 4WD. Even FWD D-C vans have the space for the rear drive shaft. I was under my FWD 96 Grand Caravan during an oil change. It was fairly obvious that the drive shaft space took up the room for a magic seat. D-C configures all its vans for 4WD to save on different configurations for the 4WD option. I have used my magic seat twice in 2 years and 8 months. I used to fold the backs of the rear seat and middle seats forward, flat on the seat cushions in my D-C van when I wanted to carry something large size.
    Many people may want a 4WD minvan. That eliminates the Odyssey.
    I just took a 1200 mile trip in my 99 Odyssey. I got 22.6 MPG averaging over 70 MPH.
    One way was 565 miles. I made it there in 7 1/2 hours. I made it back in 8 hours. (traffic was worse).
    I have over 54 K miles on my Odyssey. It still runs like new. I haven't had one problem.
  • Maybe it is just me, I actually think the build in car seats have better back support for adult when it is not in use.
  • Lockable Gas Door.
    Roll down windows in the middle.
    More interior color choices.
    Volume control on the left hand side of the steering wheel.
    Show both trip and total mileage on the inst. panel.
    Not a custom headunit.
    Cheaper DVD unit.
    Pockets in the lift gates/cargo area
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    You could still get a lockable gas cap for a Town & Country just as you could for any other car. The Limited also has steering wheel audio controls but are on the underside of the wheel, unlike in the Honda. I actually find this set up easier to use than on my friends Honda Accord EX that has them on the left side of the wheel. The Town & Country radio also comes with 20 presets total and then the CD changer, which can both be controlled using the steering wheel buttons.

    Lastly, the instrument panel does have the ability to show both trip and total mileage like the Odyssey, but not at the same time. If you desire this, use the dash odometer for the total miles and the trip computer for the trip mileage, among other things such as instant and average MPG, temperature, elapsed time, and direction.

    -Adam
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