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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    The DC crash dummy had bigger feet.
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    pat84 nice sense of humor. Odyssey much more luggage space and more power than DC minivan. DC minivan nice looking. Both much better mileage than some smaller minivan with less power.
  • JPhamJPham Posts: 148
    Ody01-wan,

    You need to put -conclusions- to your blurbs.
    "Odyssey much more luggage space and more power than DC minivan. DC minivan nice looking. Both much better mileage than some smaller minivan with less power." yeah, and so?????
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    Conclusion: Odyssey best minivan. Chrysler close 2nd. Odyssey most power, most space, very good gas mileage. Chrysler most attractive, have more nice feature, 2nd most power, good gas mileage.
    Chrysler need Magic Seat to tie Odyssey best minivan.
  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    It just may be that personal choice determines which minivan is best for that individual.
    Insignificant differences in gas mileage, magic seats, HP ratings may really be very low on some peoples requirements priorities Just a thought..
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    You could put down questionable reliablily instead of magic seats. Many people don't need magic seats
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    Odyssey and Chrysler most desireable minivan but no recent minivan bad. All minivans better than any SUV. Many companies make nice minivans. Minivans more interior space, use less gas, cost less money unless person get too small SUV. Large SUV pollute air, waste resources, danger to most vehicle. Government needs gas guzzler tax on large SUV.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,309
    ahem, I think I have just the topic for you, Ody01 . (maybe two of them!).

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • jasonrupjasonrup Posts: 13
    I have worked at the Canadian plant that builds the minivans for about four years now and I have seen what kind of product has gone through the lines with the old generation and the new. Needless to say, quality has improved greatly (of materials and build quality) and I would not hesitate whatsoever to purchase one for myself. Sure it doesn't have a fold down rear seat like some of the competition, but it's not that necessary and you are left with a nice sound resonating chamber when the seats are not folded down, and you are carrying all the extra seat weight around with you when they are folded under which reduces fuel economy. Chrysler has been unduly criticised for not having a small feature like this (meanwhile people have made due for 15+ years without it). The vans have great quality, no other manufacturer can match the number of features or variations in models that Chrysler can (there is a Caravan/Voyager/T&C for everyone); and no other manufacturer has the experience that Chrysler has in the minivan market. These are good products that are only getting better.
  • pluto5pluto5 Posts: 618
    Only you forgot to mention that the longer wheelbase, models, e.g. Grand Caravan, that most families want are made in St. Louis, not Canada.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I have never heard any sound coming from the rear of our Odyssey with or without the seat up or down. Also do you really think that 100 lbs. means anything in the gas mileage. Well maybe 1/20 of a percent or so which I would gladly give up not to get a hernia or worse lifting out that heavy DC seat.
    You also said "while people have made due for 15+ years without it." That could also be said for the lack of padded armrest, or the 3rd zone heating/cooling that Odyssey don't have that the DC fans like to throw up in our face. What you did say that the DC fans backup and I for one am glad to hear is that the quality is getting better and better. Everyone wins on that.
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    Canadian friend:

    Well done. I have had a 2002 T&C AWD for three months now. You folks did an excellent job. Beautifully assembled. I measured the body seams and the worst fit was off by only 1 mm, most were fractions of a mm off. The trip computer is reporting 19 mpg in suburban driving, better than I expected.

    I have wanted a minivan for years, but I did not want to give up the good ride and handling of a modern sedan. This latest generation of Chrysler minvan, as well as the Ody, deliver a sedan driving experience combined with a versatility that no sedan can match.

    Please pass on a well done to your fellow workers who are doing such a terrific job. It is appreciated.

    Ed
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    My 2001 Odyssey also made in Canada. Love Magic Seat, most space passenger and luggage, most power any minivan, better gas mileage than any Chrysler, Ford, Kia, Mazda, Mercury, Nissan V6 minivan. GM only minivan better gas mileage but engine much less power.
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    Looked at Chyrlser and Dodge minivans at dealer. All Town and Country Chyrlser minivan and most Grand Caravan made in Canada. SE only Grand Caravan model dealer lot made in Fenton, MO. Voyager and Caravan made in Fenton, MO.
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    "Sure it doesn't have a fold down rear seat like some of the competition, but it's not that necessary and you are left with a nice sound resonating chamber when the seats are not folded down" snip.

    It's not just about a fold down seat my friend. There are lots of other differences between Honda and Dodge/Chrysler. Things like engine horsepower, 5 speed transmission, independent suspension, 4 wheel antilock disk brakes, side air bags, etc. Most importantly, there's the resale issue. Like it or not the van will be worth something whenever you decide to sell it. While build quality may be coming up on some vehicles (I'd rather not call them domestic, or U.S. autos because last time I checked, there really aren't any true domestics any more, especially with Diamler Benz in the ownership seat) it still is not enough to support higher resale values at any point in the depreciation curve.

    Lastly, the magic seat is a nice feature. Hard to grasp if you don't have it, but nice. Ever gone on a trip loaded to the max with your seat out, only to wish you had it in once you got to your destination? Ever gone to a store and on the spur of the moment decided to buy something that wouldn't fit in the back with the seat in there? Ever had to lug that seat out of there and pretend it's really no big deal? Features and options while nice to have, don't necessarily appeal to everyone in the same level of intensity. That's why there's a minivan out there for everyone!
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    It is nice to see this topic is alive again.
    does anyone have data on the 0-60 time and the passing on the new Ody and the DC?
    As for magic or non magic, it really depends on the situation that occurs the most in order to pick which vans is a better fit. If the van will carry 5 passengers all the time, I guess the magic seat or the bench seat in DC will lose its edge.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    Honda fans are crazy over the 240HP 3.5 V6 in the Odyssey. While it does produces more horespower in numbers, that does not mean it is necessarily the fastest. This is especially true when you consider at what RPM it gets those 240 horses which is almost as important as how much horespower it has in the first place.

    There were many who said back in 2000 that the Chrysler 3.8 while only making 180hp was comparable to the 210hp 3.5 on the Odyssey. And they were right. While the old and new Chrysler 3.8 is less refined than the Ody 3.5, they produce more torque at lower RPMs than the Ody which really gives it an edge and they don't have to work as hard for it either.

    Granted, I have never driven a Honda Odyssey with any of the newer engines. But from my experience with my friend's 2001 Accord EX coupe 4 cyl and review's I've read, I can say with certainty that you have to really steep on a Honda VTEC engine to make it go. Personally, I would rather take it easy on the RPMs with an engine (like Chrysler's) that might not be as sophisticated and refined but doesnt have to roar to 3,500 to 4,000 RPMs to really get going when I want it to.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Depends on what the redline is. Our Odyssey redlines at 6500 and is built to rev. If the 02's make 240 HP at 3500 that means the engine is only running at about 1/2 of what it can. On the other hand the DC engines which are old and outdated can't handle those kinds of revs and knowing all the trouble DC has had in the past with there automatics I doubt you will see any HP increases until they spend some money on a new automatic.
  • ody01ody01 Posts: 100
    Increased HP and torque in 2002 Odyssey and 2001 Chrylser come at higher RPM than prior models.
    MY 2001 Odyssey 210 HP @ 5200 RPM. 229 Torque @ 4300 RPM with Redline 6200 RPM.
    2002 Chrlyser also need higher RPM than 2000 Chrlyser. 2002 3.8L 215 HP @ 5000 RPM with Redline 6500 RPM (Chrylser brochure) vs 2000 3.8L 180 HP @ 4300 RPM with Redline at 6000 RPM.
    2002 3.8L 245 Torque @ 4000 RPM vs 2000 3.8L 240 Torque @ 3300 RPM.
    According to brochure dash photo, 2002 Chrylser higher redline than 2001 or 2002 Odyssey.
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    Ody V-tech kicks in at around 3,800 - 4,000 rpm. There's plenty of revs left as redline is 6500. Zero to 60 for an 02 Odyssey is 7.7 sec. 4aDodge, I'll race you for pink slips any time. Your dad won't be too happy losing his T&C:-). Seriously though, you should really drive an Ody so you have some basis for comparison. Hard to argue too many points if you've never driven the vehicle. BTW - I've driven lots of Dodge/Chrysler minivans. Never owned one though - that says something.

    Here's the link to the 0-60 times if you don't believe me: http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/20838.htm
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    "On the other hand the DC engines which are old and outdated can't handle those kinds of revs and knowing all the trouble DC has had in the past with there automatics I doubt you will see any HP increases until they spend some money on a new automatic."


    If Chrysler engines and transmissions are so incompetent and outdated, why did edmunds determine the engine performance of the 01 T&C was better than that of the 01 Ody? In fact, the comparison test also determined that the transmission of the Town & Country also tied the performance of the Odyssey's. I would not surmise from the results of the test that the Odyssey outperforms the Town & Country with its fancy, high reving VTEC engine.


    Not only did the Town & Country either beat or tie the Odyssey in engine and transmission performance but it also beat the Odyssey in the categories of suspension and tire performance, steering, and most importantly...the fun to drive factor. :)


    bdaddy, I'd love to race just for kicks. I know the 3.3 in our van would run out of breathe much sooner than your fancy VTEC engine, but prepair to be beaten off the line and probably all the way to 35mph. The good ol' reliable 158hp Chrysler 3.3 V6 makes alot of its power early in the RPM band.


    In closing, here is a little article for you DC bashers out there on Chrysler reliability. According to this article found at Detroit Auto News the Dodge Caravan is rated as the second best reliable minivan in the category. It looks like its getting harder and harder for DC bashers to play the reliability card when bad mouthing Chrysler...


    Heres the link...

    http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/insiders/0205/14/insider-486681.htm


    -Adam-

  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    Then head over to the "Honda Odyssey Problems" message board. There you will find an unusual amount of Honda owners complaining of transmission problems with their relatively new Odyssey vans.

    "Has anyone heard about Differntial Bearings problem in 2001 model. My Odyssey started having transmission problems and started leaking fluid. I took it to a dealer and found the problem in Differential Bearings inside the casing along the axle. The dealer recommended replacing the whole tranny - estimate $5100. I took my odyssey to a local transmission shop and they also said the problem is in Differential Bearings. My mechanic also told me that he just got another Odyssey with the same problem. I wonder if this is a common problem for 2001 odyssey?"
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    "but prepair to be beaten off the line and probably all the way to 35mph." snip

    I doubt this would happen, but even if it would, your lead would last all of 2 maybe three seconds.
    I owned an Acura Integra with a 1.8L DOHC. The engine loved to be revved. Mine saw redline hundreds of times. I sold that car with 150,000 miles on it - original clutch, no major problems. The only thing I ever did to it outside of routine maint. was replace a door handle after an ice storm and an air conditioning relay under warranty. I agree with dmathews, the Chrysler powertrain without significant mods. would blow up at higher horsepower/higher revs. Again 4adodge, you really should drive the vehicles you are comparing so you have a basis for comparison and not merely conjecture and hearsay.

    Transmission problems have yet to be seen on 02 models. If you're comparing 01 models I'd suggest you also look at crash test data. Your D.C and T&C didn't fare so well. Safety is an important factor in minivan purchase rationale.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    4aodge-

    The Detroit News article you posted refers to initial quality. It's easy to confuse that with reliability, but they are not the same. Most products have a "bathtub curve" of defects. They start high, drop, level off for some time, then steadily increase again. Ideally, you hope to measure the initial rate for new car buyers concerned with defects from assembly and such. You'd also like to know the failure rate when it increases later in life, for those who keep their vehicles a long time. That's where CR and the JD Power Dependability surveys come in to play. If you want to talk reliability, you can find those results at their websites. If you're really interested in determining how common a particular problem is, I suggest you create a scientifically designed survey, and send it to hundreds of randomly selected owners of each of the vehicles you compare. Anecdotal responses from forums or mechanics have little if any statistical value.

    As for acceleration, the 2002 AAA Auto guide posted these numbers for 0-60 times:

    2002 T&C with 3.8L 215 HP V6: 9.8s
    2002 Odyssey with 240 HP 3.5L V6: 8.5s

    For 2001, from CR for 0-30, 0-60, and 1/4 mile:

    2001 GC with 3.3L V6: 3.8, 11.4, 18.5
    2001 Odyssey with 215HP V6: 3.7, 9.9, 17.6

    Motor Trend had these 0-60 and 1/4 mile times:

    2001 GC ES 3.8L V6: 9.7, 17.2
    2001 Odyssey EX 3.5L V6: 9.6, 17.2
    1996 T&C LXi 3.8L V6 auto: 11.0, 18.1
    1995 Odyssey LX 2.2L I4 Auto: 10.3, 18.3

    This topic came around once before, and I ask the same question again. Do you have any data to support your claims from any print or online source, or are you just guessing? Do you have the HP and Torque curves for both models, or just a static point for the peak numbers which are relatively meaningless?

    Personally, acceleration numbers don't impress me when I'm making a purchase much at all, unless it's really pathetic, which doesn't appear to be the case for either model. My pride won't be injured when you find a source that shows the 2002 T&C besting the Odyssey by 0.3s in 0-30 or 0-60 times....
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Excellent post. But don't expect 4aodge to respond as he has again been showed up. Maybe he can take out the padding in the armrests to save some weight and go faster.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    You are missing the point. You can throw out all the numbers you can find that give the Odyssey the edge in acceleration. But when you sit behind the wheel of a GC 3.8 and a Ody 3.5, you PROBABLY won't be able to tell much difference between the two. The GC would probably be more torquey at lower speeds but the Ody would have more passing power on the freeway. Anyway, 240 horses sounds really nice, but the 3.5 V6 probably does not blow the Chrysler 3.8 away, just as the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times you posted suggest. And yes, my small 3.3 V6 would probably beat a 240hp Ody off the line. If you don't believe me, I'll see you on the track!

    Many here try to belittle my comments by saying I haven't driven an Odyssey which gives me no credibility. However, I would be willing to bet many of the DC bashers here haven't driven a new DC van with the 3.8 engine either. It goes both ways.

    dmathews3, I'll keep those padded armrest inside the vehicle for now. I know they must seem expendable to an Ody owner like you who is not familiar with the simple luxuries and amenities offered on Chrysler vans.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    ...like I said, a few tenths of a second faster or slower doesn't make any difference to me.

    As for racing, bdaddy already offered. I'll pass, in the name of safety... You're welcome to have bragging rights as to how the vehicles "feel". Until you accept bdaddy's offer of the race, I prefer to go by the book numbers for sake of any arguement.

    My post was not meant to belittle you at all. I haven't driven any 2002 Chrysler product, and really don't much care one way or the other. But if you're going to debate the point, the published numbers do a lot more than guesswork. In a similar regard, I'll stick with published crashworthiness figures over hearsay, too. Others prefer to justify their choices by claiming their vehicle is better than crash tests indicate because they've seen real-life tested ones in junkyards or whatever. To each their own.

    Cheers!
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    "But when you sit behind the wheel of a GC 3.8 and a Ody 3.5, you PROBABLY won't be able to tell much difference between the two. The GC would probably be more torquey at lower speeds but the Ody would have more passing power on the freeway. Anyway, 240 horses sounds really nice, but the 3.5 V6 probably does not blow the Chrysler 3.8 away, just as the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times you posted suggest. And yes, my small 3.3 V6 would probably beat a 240hp Ody off the line. If you don't believe me, I'll see you on the track!"

    You're missing the point 4adodge. 4 "probablys" in one paragraph. Now that's conjecture. That's as bad as a post I saw on the Kia Sedona vs. Odyssey board where the poster said 'the Odyssey might Be faster, but the Kia just FEELS faster.' Wow! I'm not going to get into the merits of a faster vehicle anymore either, unless you show up at my door with pink slip in hand. I didn't buy my van for it's speed or lack there of. I just wish people would post facts and not feelings when making comparisons. Just remember, the best vehicle is not necessarily the one your dad owns. Live with a few vehicles for a while and you'll have a better basis fo comparison. BTW - I did drive an 02 DGC with the 3.8. It was a nice van, but I made my decision based on a lot of factors and in the end, could not rationalize the purchase of the Dodge.
  • jasonrupjasonrup Posts: 13
    Uhh, you're completely off the mark there pal, we ONLY build long wheelbase models here in Canada (Chrysler T&C and Grand Caravan as well as rebadged Dodge Grand Caravans called Dodge Voyagers for some foreign markets). The Windsor facility is able to produce short wheelbase models but for the time being ALL short wheelbase vans are built in St. Louis as are all Chrysler Voyagers and any lowline van with the contrasting plastic lower fascias - Windsor only builds models with colour coded fascias. Production consists of Grand Caravan Sport, ES, SE, eL, eX, Chrysler Town&Country Lx, Lxi, Limited. Windsor only builds vans with the 3.3LV6 and 3.8LV6. I may have missed a designation or two but considering the number of models it's expected. Windsor will also be building the new (and gorgeous) Chrysler Pacifica Sport Tourer with the 250HP 3.5LV6 out of the Chrysler 300M alongside the minivans.
  • pluto5pluto5 Posts: 618
    Edmunds shows lwb vans made in MO, too. BTW, saw a GC at dealer recently with "Hecho in Mexico" on 3.3 engine.
This discussion has been closed.