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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,910
    Actually it does get old when people are critized instead of ideas. I know you guys can defend yourselves quite well, but the drivability insights and other helpful tidbits that get posted are nicer to see.

    /grumble/

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    With a group like Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans I doubt you will ever get a rational discussion.
    bdaddy "I think just about any Ford would be more exciting to drive than a Ody, even my grandma's 1994 Escort wagon..." Come on now, speaking of being rational. An Escort Wagon A Huffy bike would be better than any Escort. As far as any Ford better than an Odyssey you could include any van in that statement. They aren't no Corvette, but than again they don't cost like a Corvette.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    "Do test results mean nothing to you when reviewers describe the Odyssey's ride and handling as "sporty" and "spirited"?"

    Reviews say that about the boxy, boring, bland Honda Odyssey? That's funny. I could have sworn they said that about the Grand Caravan ES w/ torquey 3.8 V6 and 17 inch wheels. And If im correct the Town & Country beat the Odyssey is just about every drive category there was and the editors said if they were to take a road trip, they'd take the Town & Country hands down over the competition. I've never driven an Odyssey but just based on what I've read and how it looks, it's hardly a "sporty" or "spirited" car.

    Yes, looks can be deceiving, but...
  • hersbirdhersbird Posts: 323
    Well according to JD Power's director of product research Brian Walters, "While many manufacturers focus on initial quality—or quality in the first one to two years of ownership—a real economic impact is felt by both owners and manufacturers in long-term durability, which is after four to five years of ownership,"
    So he says they initial quality study reflects the first 1 or 2 years of ownership, while the durability study is for 4 or 5 years.
    I know that they only survey for the first 3 months of ownership on the initial quality study, but according to the studies designers this reflects the first 1-2 years of ownership.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    And the plastic bag makes up for the hard ride 50 MPH speed limit and limited range. Where do you put the flat tire when you are loaded with passengers and luggage?Is taking all the luggage out to access the rear storage compartment (if it's not full) in the rain or snow is another exciting benefit?
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    You and your torque. Every time you're hit with facts and real driving impressions, you go off about the torque of the DC 3.8 liter engine. Ody torque is 242 ft lbs, @ 4,500 rpm. Towing cpacity of 3,500 lbs. DC makes 245 ft lbs @ 4,000 rpm with a towing capacity of 3,800 lbs. Hardly what I'd call a huge difference in torque between the vehicles. Besides, you could compare vehicles that have vast differences in torque and it wouldn't necessarily equate to anything other than in what the vehicles are capable of towing (notice I said "wouldn't necessarily" because there are many variables that affect performance, ride comfort, etc. Torque is certainly a variable but I'm not sure what point you keep trying to ake with it.)

    As for one vehicle being boring, boxey, bland etc., beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've driven every 2002 minivan out there, (yes, even the Caravan EX with the mighty 3.8L stump pulling torquey shmorkey engine). Honda beat everybody hands down with the 240 HP V-Tec, the four wheel indepedent suspension, 4 wheel ABS disk brakes and firm, responsive steering. For me it came down to size, safety, ride, handeling and the three R's - resale, resale, resale. till you drive 'em, you're just speculating and wearing your loyalty on your sleeve.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,910
    I've had 4 flats on my '99 van that has the spare underneath. The worse was on the TransLabrador highway - muddy gravel road in the middle of nowhere. We were living out of the van so it was pretty full of camping gear and stuff. The cable device is close enough to the rear hatch that too much stuff didn't have to get rearranged to lower the spare (getting to my tools was harder). The spare was filthy. The cable is long enough so at least I didn't have to crawl under the van to put the flat tire back underneath. I got muddy anyway changing the tires.

    We knew we'd be on roads like this a lot on our roadtrip, so we had tossed the spacesaver spare for a full-sized one. That was a bigger concern to me when I was pricing the Odyssey. I can tolerate some dirt, but I like having a "real" spare, since we still like to tool around on the forest service roads around here, and I seem to have a knack for ruining tires.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Sounds like before you start making all these comments you would find out where Odyssey puts it spare. Also when you put all that gear and passengers in the DC van I'm sure its full but in the Odyssey there is still plenty of room.
  • crkeehncrkeehn Posts: 513
    Perhaps you should research your comment before making it. The PT Cruiser and the Neon are not related. The Pronto was based on the Neon Chassis, however the trip from concept to production model required such extensive redesigns that the relationship was lost.
  • hersbirdhersbird Posts: 323
    A agree if I had a Honda resale would be of upmost importance, I'd be looking at selling all the time. My reliable, comfortable, sporty, AWD Dodge on the other hand will given us such great service, for so long, it will have proven more valuable, even if it's worth a couple thousand less then the Honda.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    "Sounds like before you start making all these comments(2)you would find out where Odyssey puts it spare.(inside the van in a compartment in front of the 2nd row of seats, only room for a mini spare) Also when you put all that gear and passengers in the DC van I'm sure its full(But the dirty wet flat is still outside securely fastened to the underside ) but in the Odyssey there is still plenty of room."(For the full sized wet dirty flat in a plastic bag inside with the wet luggage) Got facts? I got mine.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    "Well according to JD Power's director of product research Brian Walters, "While many manufacturers focus on initial quality—or quality in the first one to two years of ownership—a real economic impact is felt by both owners and manufacturers in long-term durability, which is after four to five years of ownership,"
    So he says they initial quality study reflects the first 1 or 2 years of ownership, while the durability study is for 4 or 5 years.
    I know that they only survey for the first 3 months of ownership on the initial quality study, but according to the studies designers this reflects the first 1-2 years of ownership.
    "


    I notice that in that quote he doesn't specifically say the JDP survey tracks the manufacturer's focus of the first 1-2 years. If that quote is what you base it on it is a bit of a stretch unless there is more you omitted.

    If it is correct, I don't suppose it's equally reasonable to extrapolate that since the CR reliability data on the current gen Odyssey dates back over 3 years, that that should reflect the first 12-24 years of ownership?
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    bdaddy, if you want real driving impressions go look at the 2001 Edmunds minivan comparison. Chrysler won just about every category involving performance, ride, and drive. As Edmunds put it best when they said the Chrysler is "a driver's minivan." As I've said before, the T&C beat the Odyssey in engine performance.

    Edmunds found the Chrysler also delivered superior braking performance than the Odyssey stopping from 60-0 8 feet shorter. That could be the difference between life and death. The 2002 Ody has 4-wheel disc breaks (finally) but from what I've heard from owner's hear in the club, there isn't a significant difference in braking feel with the new discs. However, numbers could prove otherwise.

    You speak of four wheel independent suspension, how nice. It really must be great. That's why whenever you see an Odyssey with more than 4 people in it, it looks like the back is about to hit the ground. At least Chrysler offers load-leveling suspension on their vans for people who tow or carry heavy loads in their vans. In fact, Edmunds gave Chrysler the nod in suspension performance over the Odyssey in it's comparison test.

    And lets not forget the torquey Chrysler 3.8 215hp engine. I'll stop there.

    bdaddy, if you want real driving impressions you can find them right here at Edmunds, which is what I base alot of my comments on. You can argue safety cargo capacity fairly easily with the Odyssey but it becomes much harder when you talk about performance and driving characteristics.

    As Edmund's says, the Town & Country is a driver's minivan and they don't call it that for nothing.

    -Adam (16/M/CA)
  • hersbirdhersbird Posts: 323
    The quote is all that was on the JD Powers website. It was actualy in an article explaining the durability study. Maybe the Director of Porduct Reasearch doesn't know how his own tests are run, I don't know.
    My Grand Caravan does have 4 wheel disk brakes, and the load leveling suspension. Even fully loaded for vacation, towing a camper trailer we sit perfectly level. I always wondered how that load leveling works because I have never been able to catch it in action. It definately works though, the van is a campers dream.
  • 4aodge4aodge Posts: 288
    We have a trouble-free 2000 Town & Country LX FWD. What kind of Grand Caravan do you have? I'm sure you've probably posted what model you have before, but I have forgotten over the many messages I've posted here at Edmunds. Thanks.

    -Adam (17/M/CA)
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    bdaddy, if you want real driving impressions go look at the 2001 Edmunds minivan comparison. Chrysler won just about every category involving performance, ride, and drive.
    If the DC van was so good, did it take first place? Besides, thats old news, the 02 Odyssey will run circles around the DC van which means not only was it in first place last year but is way out a head this year and this is against a van that was just redesigned. Seems like a new redesigned van should be number 1!
  • odd1odd1 Posts: 226
    Thanks for setting me straight. I'll go right now and trade for that extra 3lbs of torque in that under-powered engine. I mean that extra 1.2% of torque must feel just awesome!!!
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    "if you want real driving impressions you can find them right here at Edmunds, which is what I base alot of my comments on." - 4adodge

    Bingo! My point exactly. You base a lot of your comments on what you read and what you want to believe. As I previously stated, I've driven every minivan out there (with the exception of the VW Eurovan). All I've been trying to say is that before you make all of your comments about torquey this and torquey that, you really should drive the vehicle you're putting down. As far as reviews go, I take them with a grain of salt. (Do you really think reviews don't have biases?) As I've said before, the Odyssey, or any van for that matter, may not be everyone's cup of tea. If it were, they wouldn't need so many different makes and models. Everyone has their own set of determinents for things like seat comfort, ride quality and other subjective measures. As far as the objective measures though,(0-60, braking distance, turning radius, crash test data, H.P. and yes, torque) the numbers speak for themselves. (make sure you use current, 02 data please)
  • bdaddybdaddy Posts: 171
    From Edmunds, long term test, 2001:
    "Base prices start at $16,500 and will probably return there once production is ramped up and the car-buying public calms down. How much can you expect from a car springing from the Dodge Neon platform?"

    Am I missing something?
  • odd1odd1 Posts: 226
    how Adam quotes where Edmunds likes the T&C and then calls them biased where they don't like T&C.
This discussion has been closed.