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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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  • fezofezo Posts: 9,346
    In the CR reliabilty Honda came out #2 to Toyota and that didn't bother me.

    Like what you like - doen't bother me.

    On te European cars note - you don't buy them for reliability - at least I hope you wouldn't. Loads of folks liek how the drive and the ones I've driven have indeed been nice but the price added to the cost of maintenence and repair has kept me away.
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    Did you Honda folks notice where the Accord ranked in long term reliability? It was not in the top 3. What?? The 2000 Accord beaten by the Chevrolet Malibu, Plymouth Breeze and Chrysler Cirrus? Well, that proves that this whole report is wrong, huh? Even years after its death, Plymouth is kicking (rear end)!
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    a few years ago, you can find Mitsubishi engine in a Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth/Eagle product, ie. Laser, Talon, Stealth, Colt and now I think the engine used in the MB SLK is in the Crossfire.

    Some people will only buy car has a Japanese brand badge on it. I believe the Eclipse outsold all the Laser and Talon combined even though they are exactly the same. The same case as the 3000GT outsold the Stealth. And now, some people would pay more to get a Toyota Matrix instead of a Pontiac Vibe.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    Accord competes is in Premium midsize category not the entry level mid size car.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,346
    Some people will only buy car has a Japanese brand badge on it. I believe the Eclipse outsold all the Laser and Talon combined even though they are exactly the same. The same case as the 3000GT outsold the Stealth. And now, some people would pay more to get a Toyota Matrix instead of a Pontiac Vibe.

    And those people are either nuts or not paying attention.

    Lonng term reliability of Accord? Again, if you look at CR Accord is much better than average while your other three there are average. This is no big crime to be average.

    In JD Powers - I played on their site to compare all 4 head to head and got a very odd result. It rated teh Breeze ahead of the Cirrus on feature and accessory quality even though a Breeze is a deconted Cirrus. They claim to have no data on mechanical reliability on anything but the Malibu. If there is any sample size at all, how can this be? These are high volume cars. There's all sorts of numbers that don't add up. They give the best in class to the Plymouth despite the Chrysler being the same car with more features.

    Odd stuff. I did compare the vans yesterday on that and tehy gace the awards to Ody and Sienna despite what they said in that release. I'm confused.

    As far as kicking butt, I really don't care. Not like most folks buy a minivan to kick butt. I'm very happy and comfortable with my choice.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Posts: 840
    Buying brand name--isn't that how most of us are if the price is right?
    I remember the Corolla was the same as a Prism, except the Corolla was made in the Toyota plant and Prism was made in a Chevy plant. And I recall the Corolla had better reliability records, which was interesting. I guess Toyota has has better controls in the manufacturing process and Chevy doesn't.
    The reason a lot of us buy "Japanese" is because they have a very long history of excellent reliability. You could buy the most reliable car the Lexus LS430 and if you are unlucky, it might break down before your Chrysler Town and Country.
    However, chances are, the T&C will have problems first according to JD Powers and CR.
    Which would I trust more? Hmmm. I would trust them both equally. None are perfect.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,812
    Actually Corolla's and Novas/Prisms were made side by side in a plant in in Fremont, CA starting in 1986. That same plant also makes Toyota trucks.

    http://www.autointell.com/asian_companies/toyota_motor/toyota-nao- - - -mfg.htm

    http://www.nummi.com

    Today they still make the Corolla and Tacoma as well as the Pontiac Vibe. Further, they build the Toyota Voltz which is exported to Japan. And to top it off, they are a UAW plant.

    I'm no chest beater for the UAW and the Big 3 at all, but if an American plant using American labor can build a competitive vehicle, so be it. Difference between Corolla and Prism reliability numbers should be perception only - I doubt the quality standards changed just because they affixed a different label to the car.
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    Andrew, it is like the third time you have posted incorrect information, I think TH only allows the max of 5 times :-) I hope you didn't buy and pay more for a Toyota Corolla instead of the Prism or a Honda Passport and found out it really was a Isuzu.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Posts: 840
    If I post 100% correct infos, there would not be enough good heated debates and stuff :-)
    I just realized myself that the Prism was a Geo Prism, not Chey :-) My bad.
    Yeah, actually I did buy the Corolla over the Prism, but I did not buy any SUVs.
    After the Corolla, I went with a Camry.
    Then I went with the Avalon.
    Then I gave that to my wife and bought a Lexus.
    Then I bought the Odyssey.
    But interesting info by robr2. If these cars only differ in the names, then it has to be pure perception in terms of reliability. Interesting.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Posts: 840
    If D/C can gets good numbers on reliability as Toyota and Honda, I probably still wouldn't buy one just because I don't like they way they look outside and inside. One quick example, Honda and Toyota has a nice 7" NAV screen while D/C has a 4 inch NAV screen? Just doen't make any sense to me.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,532
    Same theory with the old Quest/Villager. Same components, same assembly line, same workers, etc. Only difference was in the trim and warranty.

    JD Power gives the Villager a #1 ranking for reliability and the Quest isn't on the radar. Maybe the old saw that people who buy Japanese brands are pickier than buyers of domestic brands has some truth to it?

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  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Posts: 840
    I agree. I think people who buy "Japanese" expect a lot more and so even the smaller problems bother the heck out of them and they sure as heck want everyone and their pets to know about it.
    So then can we say a lot of people who buy "Japanese" are type A personality?
    No. I only buy "Japanese" cars and I consider myself type B personality. However, even the smallest problems bother the heck out of me :-)
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,532
    I'm type B, and my Quest is "Japanese." Actually only my drivetrain is - the sheetmetal was stamped in TN and the electrical stuff is mostly Ford. The folks in OH did a nice job of riveting it together it seems; no strandings in the first 83,000 miles.

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  • fezofezo Posts: 9,346
    I always liek that one - catches a lot of people, as I'm sure Vibe/Matrix will... It does show that American union labor can do every bit the good work of anywhere else and do it competitively.

    THere may be something to that thing about what people expect going into their car purchase. Back when I had a Windstall I was ready at purchase time to concede it was probably not up to Japanese standards and when warranty work came up I didn't sweat it. But then it continued and once past 80,000 miles it was a piece of junk that I did not trust enough to put my family in it. Point is those first early repairs I probably still would have given Ford a pass. I would have found it something seriously wrong on a Japanese make. Those later repairs put Ford into the "fool me once" camp. So did the corporate Ford "customer service" people.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    My boss and I rode over to another building for a meeting the other day in his aging Caravan. I was amazed to see the oddometer at 321,000 miles. It's the original engine and transmission,too.

    Yes, he's done a number of repairs (including two headgasket replacements), but overall I though it was darn good for a vehicle with that kind of mileage. Still more amazing was the body. Chrysler vehicles sure don't rust as quickly as Ford and GM around here (Rochester, NY). This Caravan had a rusted out sliding door and there was rust on the rear hatch door. But that's it!

    Dusty
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    I was watching this Pontiac commercial on TV the other day. There was a woman and a man both wearing sunglasses. The woman was driving the Pontiac Grand Prix doing high speed sharp turns on a wide open field. As usual, there is a warning in the bottom of the screen saying "the car is driven by a professional driver on a closed road." As the commercial ends, the women step out the car with a walking stick (Pontiac tries to tell us she is blind I think?) and the slogan "Fuel for the sole" appears on the screen.

    So, I guess GM knew their Grand Prix is ugly and only a blind person would buy it. By the way, can a professional driver be blind?

    Hey Steve, is there a topic in TH for stupid car commercials? I could think of quite a few of those.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,532
    Car Commercials: The good, the bad, and the annoying!

    Posts like yours help validate my decision to kill my tv back in '99.

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  • nolid5nolid5 Posts: 148
    Would that be on a shoe or a type of fish? :P
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    I just realized that...it should be "fuel for the soul"
  • I was reading someone's idiotic post a few weeks ago about their friend's "foreign "cars that all have 100k miles while the "domestic" cars with 50k miles are puking out. I'm here to say I own a '96 Plymouth Grand Voyager with 109k miles and a 2000 Taurus with 104k miles. Both are running great. In addition I owned a '97 Grand Prix three years ago and ran it up to 100k miles and it too ran wonderfully.

    I for one am not so sure that the foreign guys have such a leg up on the domestic guys anymore. PARTICULARLY when you factor in the excessive price differences between apples-to-apples models (who in their right mind would pay >$5k more for a foreign car to avoid a $800 head gasket job five years in the future!?!?!?!?).

    - Rob
  • rbell2rbell2 Posts: 179
    I also own a '96 DGC-LE with the 3.3L V-6. I have a 107,000 miles on it. It was the first non-Toyota product I had ever owned. Over this period I only had one really bad incident - a pulley just fell off the bottom of the undercarriage wiping two pumps - $900!! Everything else has been minor. I was looking to trade it for a new Sienna or Ody and I am appalled at the trade-in value - only $2,000 in real money. I originally paid $25,200 plus TTL for this van. Depreciation - that is my biggest complaint with American cars. I traded my '91 Toyota 4Runner with 113,000 miles towards a new '00 4Runner and got $7,000 for it (real money)!! I originally paid $20,700 for it!! I will probably not buy American again for a while - especially since most of the major foreign cars are made in the US by Americans anyway.
  • cavillercaviller Posts: 331
    Years ago, CR often showed large reliability variances among twin vehicles with USA/Japanese nameplates- Prizm/Corolla, Explorer/Navajo, Villager/Quest, etc. The Japanese branded one always had better reliability, often 2 categories or more. About 5 years ago or maybe earlier, they finally got wise to the criticism of a bias and combined all twins for sake of making their reliability record identical.

    Perceptions can play a role in surveys, especially self selected ones like Consumer Reports...
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    My son's 2001 Ody EX does not have the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger nor the overhead console with many nice items nor the lighted controls on the doors nor the nice sound system of another son's 2002 Grand Caravan Sport.
        The Grand Caravan is quieter and smoother riding than the Odyssey but the Odyssey does have twice the cargo volume behind the 3rd seat that folds into the floor. However, with 3 children, the fold into the floor 3rd seat has little value.
        The 2004 Toyota Sienna has all the nice features of the Grand Caravan and the Odyssey + Toyota reliability and a 60/40 split 3rd row seat that also folds into the floor.
  • rbell2, glad to hear you've had such a reliable PGV!

    The depreciation factor, in my opinion, is ALWAYS there with a new car - domestic or foreign. Unless I'm buying a company car I never buy new. I always buy a vehicle with 10-30k miles, as I did with my '96 PGV. So #1, let someone else pay for the depreciation.

    #2, I would still argue that the foreign car buyer is paying wayyyyyyyy too much upfront for the "benefit" of having a great trade-in down the road. It's funny you mention the 4Runner (which in my opinion is a great vehicle but highly over-priced; and Joan Collins has had more facelifts in the last ten years than the 4Runner) because a relative of mine has a '91 Explorer with 95k miles. He just turned down an offer of $6k for the truck. Not sure what he paid for it new but I know it had to be less than the 4Runner. A new 4Runner today - well equipped - is $35-$40k+. A new Explorer is $20-$25k+. So in essence the foreign buyer is paying a 40-50% premium upfront (on a much larger amount of $$$) to receive a 15% premium on the backend (on a much smaller amount of $$$).

    I'm not a mathmetician but that just doesn't make sense to me.

    - Rob
  • rbell2rbell2 Posts: 179
    Your 4Runner vs. Explorer values are waaaay off. My nephew in B'ham, AL just bought a new '03 4Runner SR-5 with the V-8. Well equipped 2WD and Paid $25,750 (he got $5,000 off the MSRP).

    By the way, when I bought my '91 model, a good friend also bought an Explorer (4WD, power everything, cloth seats - just like my 4Runner). He sold it 1 year before I traded mine and got $4,500 for it with about 90,000 miles.
  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    Interesting.
     I traded in my 96 Dodge Grand Caravan on a 99 ODY. I had transmission problems with both. I traded my 99 ODY on a 03 4 Runner V-8 Sport model. I paid invoice + $200 for the 4 Runner. Now my wife and I can drive out on the beach, surf fish, sit in lawn chairs and have cold ones out of a cooler. What minivan transmission problems ?
  • crkeehncrkeehn Posts: 513
    Now let me see.....

    You had a 1996 Dodge Caravan and replaced it with a 1999 Odyssey after you suffered transmission problems.

    You had a 1999 Honda Odyssey and replaced it with a 2003 4 Runner after you suffered transmission problems on the Odyssey.

    I hope you bought the extended warranty on the 4 Runner....
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,532
    Get a manual tranny!

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  • pat84pat84 Posts: 817
    I would get a manual transmission if they were offered in minivans. I have had 2 Jeeps, 3 Sports cars, 3 motor cycles, 3 sedans, and a full size van all with manual transmissions. The only clutches I had replaced was 1 on the full size van, but I had it for a little over 140 K miles.. I put 2 on my wife's 84 Monza. A clutch on the Monza lasted about 20K miles. The drive shaft exited the transmission at a sharp angle as a factory design. The 80's were not kind to GM.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,532
    I have high hopes for a manual on the new VW Microbus. At least a gated shifter or Tiptronic!

    Last manual on a mainstream US minivan was the early Caravans -- I don't remember if they were column or floor shifters.

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