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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    "Sienna- Red Dot

    Ody - Half Red Dot

    Quest - White to Half Red Dot

    DGC & T & C - Half Black Dot to White/Clear Dot"

     

    Not sure where you got that. The last two years put out by C.R. 02-03, the Dodge/Chrysler did not have a half black dot on any of the of the things they were judged on. As a matter of fact, the Dodge didn't even go down to a clear dot, meaning average, on the 03's
  • dulnevdulnev Posts: 652
    "Not sure where you got that. The last two years put out by C.R. 02-03, the Dodge/Chrysler did not have a half black dot on any of the of the things they were judged on. As a matter of fact, the Dodge didn't even go down to a clear dot, meaning average, on the 03's"

     

    I'm not sure what he was looking at either. For current models here's what I see in the "Predicted Reliability" measure:

     

    Odyssey: Half red dot ("Very Good")

    Sienna: Half red dot ("Very Good")

    Quest: black dot ("Poor")

    T&C: Clear dot ("Good")

    Dodge GC: Clear dot ("Good")
  • etoilebetoileb Posts: 34
    I'm not sure that logic prevails.

     

    It's like saying that if the "Dodge/Chrysler Prices Paid & Buying Experience" has only 33 posts on it and the equivalent board for "Honda Odyssey" has 8323 posts on it, then Honda Odyssey's must be outselling Dodge/Chrysler by some 25x.

     

    As an impartial observer of these forums, I would say that the only thing one can concude is that "in general the Toyota/Honda owners use the internet more than the Dodge/Chrysler owners".
  • Interesting logic. This is the logic that I use. Daimlerchrysler invented the minivan over 20 yrs ago and still out sells all other brands every year. (No body has ever out sold Daimlerchrysler in minivans as far as I know.) Maybe the reason for the low posts in the "Dodge/Chrysler Prices Paid & Buying Experience" is really because, there is nothing to inform people about since mostly everybody knows that you can buy both new and used Daimlerchrysler minivans for a very good price below MSRP. On the other hand. With the Ody's Prices Paid & Buying Experience having so many posts, might only mean that for a high priced van to be purchase at or below MSRP is something to tell everyone about. (Since they have been over priced, in my opinion, over the years with less options compared to the competition.) Another thing to remember about the Ody, is that in the past, they couldn't keep up with the demand. So a lot of people where posting about their deposit and wait time. (Not going to happen with a Daimlerchrysler minivan). I notice reading in these forums, that it seems like Ody. and Sienna owners are trying to prove that their minivans are superior over Daimlerchrysler minivans buy trashing the current Daimlerchrysler minivans reliability buy comparing them to the pre 2000 model years. I believe that, as a Daimlerchrysler owners, we do not have to prove that are minivans are superior to the competition. Yes, the Sienna and Ody. are great minivans and offer certain things that Daimlerchrysler's minivans don't. But same can be said for Daimlerchrysler. As a Daimlerchrysler owner, we just try to correct the untruths that are being spread about are vechicles that we know are not true. Another thing that you should consider, just because a forum has a certain number of post doesn't mean that everybody in that post only said one thing. You will find people posting in the same forum multiple times. (I do it) So your logic has no truth behind it. Find one or two names in any forum and do a search in that forum only. You will see just how many times a person might post.
  • etoilebetoileb Posts: 34
    I know where you're going with this...but honestly I think you're reading too much into my post.

     

    Why would anyone assume that there is positive correlation between the number of posts on "problems" and those on the respective vehicles - and a negative correlation between the number of posts on "prices paid" and the very same vehicles? You've got to admit, no bookie would give you odd on that type of contrived scenario!

     

    As I said earlier, the only things the number of posts proves is that Honda/Toyota owners use the internet (or more precisely these forums) more than Dodge/Chrysler users - both to vent their spleen and to pat each other on the back.

     

    QED
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,555
    Maybe the DC owners are here in vaster numbers, but they prefer to lurk?

     

    (maybe they don't need reassurance about their choice or maybe they have nothing to prove, lol).

     

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    Moderator
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  • dulnevdulnev Posts: 652
    "Ody. and Sienna owners are trying to prove that their minivans are superior over Daimlerchrysler minivans..."

     

    No one is "trying" to prove such a thing because it doesn't need to be proven. Every single authoritative source of information on automobiles says so! The Consumer Reports, Car & Driver magazine and any other automotive magazine, etc. The fact that Odyssey and Sienna are WAY superior to Daimler Chrysler minivans is just that: FACT. If you feel differently, it's just your opinion not substantiated by facts.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    I will not doubt your claim that Honda and Toyota mini vans are superior to Daimler Chrysler vans. But to say they are way superior is an over exaggeration.

     

    Even taking into account that there maybe more Honda and Toyota people using this forum to talk about their vans than Chrysler/Dodge owners. You only have to listen to what owners are saying about the troubles between the vans.

     

    How many Chrysler/Dodge owners that have vans that are 1-4 years old are complaining of tranny problems? I have only read one post of a C/D owner complaining of the driver's seat being uncomfortable. I haven't heard any complaints on them having a hard ride, rattles or wind noise. None have complained of the radios or cheap speakers in their vans. And only a couple of complaints of doors not working.

     

    So to say the Toyota and Honda is way superior than the C/D, I think is way out of line and doesn't come close to the truth. If the Honda and Toyota were that much better, they wouldn't be so many complaints on the same things all the time. And your talking about fairly new vans.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    No way are the hondas and toyotas FAR superior. It is not a FACT.The difference is marginal at best. That was a terribly inaccurate post ... do you work for the Bush administration?
  • dulnevdulnev Posts: 652
    Marginal at best? Let's look at the Consumer Reports view on Odyssey and Town & COuntry, shall we? The former one is rated "Excellent" overall, while the latter is "Good"; that's two grade levels down from Excellent.

     

    In various subcategories of ratings (such as braking, handling, ergonomics, etc.) I counted the total of each grade of rating (Excellent, Very Good, etc.). Here's the summary:

     

    Excellent Ratings:

    Ody: 3

    T&C: NONE

     

    Very Good Ratings:

    Ody: 10

    T&C: 7

     

    Good Ratings:

    Ody: 1

    T&C: 8

     

    Fair Ratings:

    Ody: 1

    T&C: NONE

     

    Poor Ratings:

    Ody: NONE

    T&C: 1

     

    I don't know about you, but I would call it FAR better. And that's just CR. I subscribe to Car & Driver and Odyssey and Sienna always take #1 and #2 spots; unfortunatelly I don't keep previous issues and can't report on the numerical ratings they assign to each van.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    As a long time reader who has finally let his subscription expired ... they dont know didly. Not cars, lawn movers, or refrigerators. Lets have the same geeks who test toasters test cars. They have the most superficial reviews I have ever read. And please dont bring up there consumer ratings ... the thing I throw out every year. Much too long of a questionere. CR is a joke.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    You need to justify the amount you paid for your ody ... when you can get the same thing ... for a whole lot less from DC. Were talking close to 6K if not more.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,555
    Consumer Reports is a well respected publication. Use them (and us, JD Power, MSN, etc.). Then make up your own mind.

     

    People have different reasons to buy different vans, and it's not helpful to berate individuals for making a personal choice.

     

    In other words, lighten up. They're just minivans.

     

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Consumer's Report O5

     

    Dodge G/C

     

    02 03

    E E Engine

    E E Cooling

    AV E Fuel

    E E Ignition

    AB E Transmission

    AB E Electrical

    AB E A/C

    AB E Suspension

    AB E Brakes

    E E Exaust

    Ave AB Power Equip

    E E Paint/trim/rust

    AB AB Integrity

    AB E Hardware

     

    Honda Odyssey

     

    02 03

    E E Engine

    E E Cooling

    E E Fuel

    E E Ignition

    E E Transmission

    AB E Electrical

    E E A/C

    E E Suspension

    E E Brakes

    E E Exhaust

    AB E Power Equip

    E E Paint/trim/rust

    Av AB Integrity

    AB E Hardware

     

    Neither van posted below average in any catagory
  • "As a long time reader who has finally let his subscription expired ... they dont know didly. Not cars, lawn movers, or refrigerators. Lets have the same geeks who test toasters test cars. They have the most superficial reviews I have ever read. And please dont bring up there consumer ratings ... the thing I throw out every year. Much too long of a questionere. CR is a joke."

     

    Interesting. You criticize CR for being superficial, then state that you throw out the questionnaire each year because it is much too long. I would think a long questionnaire would give results the opposite of superficial. And you throw it out because it is too long? You seem to play both sides of the fence here.

     

    I agree that CR is an excellent source, but not the only one. It pays to check several. BTW, if you don't like CR, what DO you like?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    When people happen to agree with CR, then,they think the ratings are fair and accurate.

     

    If, however, the car they happen to own or sell get's a bad rating, subscriptions get cancelled and the ratings are dismissed as meaningless.

     

    Me, I happen to think that a lot of it is still subjective and a lot of it is pretty accurate.

     

    Just another source of information for people to read and decide for themselves.

     

    I do know, in the past, I've owned several cars on CR's list of cars to avoid that were just fine.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    The reviews are superficial. The yearly questionnaire is another issue. Edmunds, car and driver, auto week are three auto resources I find the most informative.
  • "The reviews are superficial. The yearly questionnaire is another issue. Edmunds, car and driver, auto week are three auto resources I find the most informative."

     

    OK, I can see how you are separating the reviews from the questionnaire. But the reviews are accompanied by data, and the reliability part comes from the questionnaire.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    I subscribe to Consmer Reports and recently Car and Driver. CR geared more toward the masses and CD more toward the "car entusiast".Both I feel offer informative info...just with different approaches.CR focuses more on comfort and reliability and CD more on drivetrain and 0-60 times.I've read van reviews from each...both some points that I would agree with and some I wouldn't.Some points/issues one omits while the other picks up.

       Honda Ody won in C&D's 5 Best Trucks.Though the field nominated was fairly weak(i.e Buick Terraza,Chevy Uplander,Dodge Caravan...NOT the Grand or T&C,Pontiac Montana ,Saturn Relay and the Toyota Sienna.)
  • "Honda Ody won in C&D's 5 Best Trucks.Though the field nominated was fairly weak(i.e Buick Terraza,Chevy Uplander,Dodge Caravan...NOT the Grand or T&C,Pontiac Montana ,Saturn Relay and the Toyota Sienna.)"

     

    Holy smokes, that's more than fairly weak. Almost no one compares the Ody to that subset ... it is always Ody, Sienna, T&C and sometimes Quest. What a weird sorting they picked. BTW, was this rating for the 2005 Ody or 2004? Thanks.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    denver,the rating was for the 2005 Ody.Reported in this months C&D.They did not mention any of the other vehicles( I guess it wasn't a full size comparison test). They just kept singing the praises of the 2005 Ody. "the latest Odyseey is just about the only vehicle of its kind that we regard as rewarding to drive." By saying "rewarding to drive"...are they unconsciously implying they were paid off? :-)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,695
    Sounds like the new Odyssey is a crowd pleaser!

     

    Payoffs? Ah...don't think so! Sorry...
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    I guess that there was no need to.

     

    C & D June 2004 minivan comparo results:

     

    1.) 2004 Ody(NOT 2005)

     

    2.) 2004 Sienna

     

    3.) 2004 Quest

     

    4.) 2004 DGC SXT

     

    5.) 2004 Freestar

     

    The 2005 Ody would have increase its winning lead further.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    "rewarding to drive" = paid off?

          

         EXCELLENT interpretation.
  • marine2marine2 Posts: 1,155
    Dodge/Honda 2003 compared by C.R. Last year to have data on.

     

    Dodge got 12 Excellents and two above average in 14 different categories.

     

    Honda got 13 Excellents and one above average. I wouldn't call that WAY superior.
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    C R 2005 Buying guide

     

    Reliability Verdicts

     

    Ody: 1999 rated -(Average)

    Ody: 2000 - 2004 rated _/(Above Average)

     

    DGC/T & C: 1999 rated -(Average)

    DGC/T & C: 2000 - 2003 rated X (Below Average)

     

    Let the numbers from a large sampling speak for themselves. It is information like this and others(such as C & D, Edmunds, etc) that one can use to make their buying decisions.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Problem is CR is afraid to disclose the actual numbers and their written material is often contradictory to the test results. It would be very easy for CR to state the actual numbers of each vehicle they list. IF CR provided these numbers, people would be much better informed. As it is, the biased opinion of CR employees distorts the results.

        I read of far more problems with the Odyssey transmissions than DC minivan transmissions here in the Town Hall by real people who own each. I am now afraid to buy a new Odyssey based on reading of the many problems reported in the Town Hall by people who have purchased an Odyssey. My nephew told me his new 2005 Ody EX has a "whistling noise" at speeds 35 MPH and faster.

        Most of the complaints about DC are by former owners who may have had a valid complaint and were not satisfied by DC dealers. Most of these were people who wanted a Honda or Toyota minivan but found that neither provided a serious competitor to the Caravan/Voyager, Grand Caravan/Grand Voyager/Town & Country until the first Sienna appeared about 1997 and the current Odyssey appeared as a 1999 model.

         Funny that none of the dozens of people I know who bought DC minivans have had any problems. Many are now repeat buyers based on complete satisfication with the Caravan/Voyager and later models from Chrysler which is now DaimlerChrysler.
  • dulnevdulnev Posts: 652
    I'm sorry, but can you please READ my post before you reply to it! I wasn't referring to reliability, but the "quality" ratings that CR assigns TO THE 2005 MODELS!
  • macakavamacakava Posts: 775
    Many of the problems that are stated are blown out of proportions by the relatively few affected.

     

    The whistling noise problem is history - the fix is a simple one to the windshield cowl area. The transmission problem has been addressed by the recall - infact I would not be surprised if most of the owners affected were towing heavy trailers like a truck does and their vehicle was also not equipped with additional coolers for thr tranny, power steering, i.e. the trailer package.

     

    One has to look at the bigger picture and certainly CR is a source of information as do Car & Driver, Edmunds, etc. I am sure that the numbers of owners CR received feedback from is far larger than the complainers we read in these forums and as such is a more statistically accurate report. Supplying that level of details/granularity of the actual numbers is not practical unless if it were for a PhD thesis and is not much interest to most readers.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    My nephew has not yet responded to my e-mails asking if the Honda dealer has yet eliminated the whistling noise in his new 2005 Odyssey EX purchased November 30, 2004.

         I have sent him information gathered from the Town Hall stating the simple fix for the whistling noise and wonder why he has not responded.
This discussion has been closed.